04:03 <bleb> Can anyone here recommend a GPS navigation system for your car? (I ask here as I assume there are some folks who don't have smartphones :))

09:26 <sixwheeledbeast> I'd use my N900 if I had to but I prefer a good old fashioned map.

09:27 <bencoh> when driving? err

09:30 <sixwheeledbeast> Yep, I drive a lot and know how to navigate with a map and road signs. Something a new generation will never do.

09:31 <bencoh> indeed :)

09:32 <sixwheeledbeast> You will fail the new British driving test if you cannot use a satnav, something which I don't agree with.

09:32 <bencoh> I'm not entirely certain it's a bad thing though, considering how people can get oblivious, even (especially?) when driving

09:32 <sixwheeledbeast> You should be looking up the road not at your dashboard calculating which way an arrow is pointing.

09:33 <bencoh> right, but what about a papermap?

09:33 <bencoh> it sounds worse to me somehow

09:33 <sixwheeledbeast> What about a papermap

09:34 <sixwheeledbeast> I do exactly the same on my motorcycle if that answers your question.

09:34 <bencoh> well, unless you take time to make a halt before glancing at it

09:38 <sixwheeledbeast> I rarely need to use it. I would look at it before leaving to assess the route and it's duration. If required when I don't know the area, I would make shorthand notes and have them on the tank or dashboard within sight.

09:40 <sixwheeledbeast> I honestly believe that this is an important skill that should be maintained. You will never learn where things are if you follow a talking box blindly.

09:41 <bencoh> I gladly agree with the latter part :)

09:44 <sixwheeledbeast> Honestly, shorthand notes work perfectly. Road networks have involved to be navigated like this over many years.

09:45 <sixwheeledbeast> The more you do it the more observant your driving will become. You will be looking further ahead and read the road better and earlier.

13:49 <esbjerg> sixwheeledbeast: I do exactly the same

13:49 <esbjerg> perhaps it is an MC thing ;)

13:49 <sixwheeledbeast> MC?

13:49 <sixwheeledbeast> oh motorcycle

14:01 <sixwheeledbeast> I dunno I think it's more laziness/generational myself. There is also limited margin for any time lost if you make a wrong turn now. People need to be places yesterday and deliver things last week. It's a skill, so you are mount to make odd mistakes while learning. Maybe only people who drive for leisure have time for this craft now.

14:07 <esbjerg> you may be right - but this also fits with riding a motorcycle - many ride the MC's for fun and just enjoy seeing where the road takes them

14:08 <esbjerg> it is definitely a skill you need to spend a lot of time learning