11:24 <metacollin> Hey everyone, I'm the engineer that Joerg-Neo900 hired on contract to complete the second prototype board, as well as handle its manufacture. It is still in the early stages, but expect to slowly start seeing things taking shape over the coming weeks :). Right now, I am polishing all of the CAD footprints for maximum manufacturing reliability, and 3D MCAD representations.

11:25 <metacollin> Just finished the LEDS :) https://metacollin.com/screens/upshot_nPmDISSZ.jpg

11:32 <Joerg-Neo900> and all https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IPC_(electronics) conforming :-D

11:33 <metacollin> All footprints are being tweaked so they're made IPC compliant. IPC is the Association Connecting Electronics Industries - an international body standardizing assembly and production requirements of electronic equipment and assemblies. They've been collecting data from mass produced electronics for 6 straight decades, and have empirically determined the ideal footprints for various chips and components from this mountain of data.

11:33 <Joerg-Neo900> excelent news

11:34 <Joerg-Neo900> a massive boost in quality of the project's data

11:34 <Joerg-Neo900> many thanks metacollin :-)

11:36 <Joerg-Neo900> .

11:36 <Joerg-Neo900> meanwhile: transferwise takes ages to verify Neo900 account, and they don't *send* money before they accomplished that. Huge WTF

11:37 <Joerg-Neo900> I could anderstand they only *receive* transfers on verified accounts, but we want to *send* money to metacollin

11:38 <Joerg-Neo900> those are the myriad of little organizational time sinks that add to months of delay

11:47 <metacollin> Also, I have an n900 and used to use it quite a bit back in the day. I am modestly active on github and participate in several open source projects, so I'm also contributing to the project outside of the contract as well. Basically, I want this thing to exist.

11:49 <Joerg-Neo900> :-)

11:50 <metacollin> Oh, and one last thing, coming into this project which, as I understand it, has been active for sometime now, I have to say, it's the single best documented project I've worked with. That alone is going to speed things along, so anyway, just wanted to give everyone an update.

11:50 <Joerg-Neo900> great! many many thanks!

11:51 <Joerg-Neo900> and again welcome to the project.

11:52 <Joerg-Neo900> really happy you joined

12:07 <Joerg-Neo900> (transferwise) some progress seen

14:08 <Joerg-Neo900> ((... it's the single best documented project I've worked with.)) We're striving to set standards for Open Hardware community projects. I think we did a decent job, particularly thanks to wpwrak's awesome contributions

14:36 <drathir> Joerg-Neo900: metacollin there will be no more ripping off usb? ^^

14:38 <drathir> metacollin: bu the idea of neo900 i guess is most important to show that open phones are possible to build, and sad that idea isnt widely implemented in market...

14:38 <drathir> but*

14:40 <DocScrutinizer05> drathir: please repharase "ripping off USB"

14:42 <drathir> DocScrutinizer05: the old issue with n900 board which usb port always (matter of time only) rip off the pcb in best scenario in worst with pbc parts almost impossible of solder it back...

14:44 <Joerg-Neo900> drathir: we took care of this long ago, by selecting a USB jack component with through-hole mechanical fixing posts

14:46 <Joerg-Neo900> layout is involved in that as far is the holes for the mech fixing posts/latches need decent plating with annulus rings on each layer and a "huge" pad for additional solder on the opposite side of PCB, so the post and solder form a sort of rivet fixing the component to PCB as strong as physically possible

14:46 <drathir> Joerg-Neo900: thanks for that really even if probably not get chance testing of neo900 board, but still thanks a lot for take away that nightmare issue which probably most of n900 owners get bad drams about in night...

14:47 <Joerg-Neo900> :-)

14:50 <Joerg-Neo900> obviously using a SMT-only USB component that depends on glue which holds copper plating to FR4 of the PCB is a very poor engineering/design

14:51 <Joerg-Neo900> and yet, supposedly the N900 USB rip-off problems were due to poor soldering, not poor design at large

14:51 <drathir> and what is great in neo900 project in my opinion too is try to learn at mistakes nokia maded in design and improve the device, ofc probably will occur new ones in the path but im sure this one will also removed in future... not like big brand out phone with issue abadon out new one with issues abadon and repeat that model... there is better idea in mu opinion even if limited by case...

14:52 <Joerg-Neo900> agreed

15:10 <Joerg-Neo900> I probably should create a list with N900 known issues and how we solved each one on Neo900

15:16 <drathir> Joerg-Neo900: thats for sure would be great, owners of n900 probably will be really glad to see it...

15:17 <Joerg-Neo900> USB tear-off, kbd N-key phantom keys, charger detection, charging w/o software support, running from charger without battery inserted, , uSD (u)mount handling on removal of battery lid, dualtouch, 4 times RAM, dual SIM, stylus sensor, AHJ vs OMP headset jack standard, stereo line-in, mech support for kbd and problem-aware chip placement to avoid "No SIM detected" issue...

15:29 <sixwheeledbeast> ~springfix

15:29 <infobot> well, springfix is http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1243160#post1243160 and http://www.jabawok.net/?p=14

15:29 <sixwheeledbeast> lol

15:31 <sixwheeledbeast> I wonder if that device still works 5 years later

18:33 <Joerg-Neo900> unrelated: CAT-S60 "pregnant" after less than 2 years (lucky me, if it was >2 years, no warranty) - if the battery was same manuf who made Samsung bats?

18:34 <Joerg-Neo900> sixwheeledbeast: indeed that would be interesting

18:36 <Joerg-Neo900> https://www.catphones.com/de-de/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/s60-feature-4.jpg mine looks different now ;-) 4mm thicker

18:44 <Joerg-Neo900> http://maemo.cloud-7.de/et_al/S60-bulging/

18:49 <Joerg-Neo900> oh wait, Samsung messed up by themselves, by piercing the battery, right?

19:01 <Joerg-Neo900> anyway I survived it, despite the device being next to my kidneys when it started bulging :-D

19:02 <Joerg-Neo900> actually the real bulging process went totally unnoticed

19:02 <Joerg-Neo900> during ~30min while I had a walk

19:30 <crox> Joerg-Neo900, did it get hot?

19:32 <Joerg-Neo900> nothing noticed

19:33 <atk> it's a feature

19:33 <Joerg-Neo900> hehe

19:33 <atk> unless otherwise specified

19:34 <Joerg-Neo900> prolly it thought it drowned and activated the "float to surface" feature so you could recover it when it gets lost during swimming

19:36 <Joerg-Neo900> that ultratiny plastic chip stuff nowadays really is pretty weird when you frew up with 8" floppy disks in drives that weighed 25kg and used 300W for a total storage of 360kB

19:36 <Joerg-Neo900> http://maemo.cloud-7.de/et_al/S60-bulging/DSCF2712.JPG

19:39 <atk> On the note of heavy storage

19:40 <Joerg-Neo900> duh, don't get me started. The tape drives and platter "pot" 10MB drives for Siemens M70 both were loke 400kg

19:40 <Joerg-Neo900> like*

19:40 <atk> I am planning on building a custom NAS which is going to hold 16 disks total. ~20 TB of disk, actually will be able to hold 10TB of data (due to various RAID things)

19:40 <MonkeyofDoom> 128G µSD cards are insane info density

19:40 <Joerg-Neo900> http://www.tentacle.franken.de/m80/index.html

19:41 <Joerg-Neo900> MonkeyofDoom: yes, they outperform the cold war "microdots" hands down

19:51 <MonkeyofDoom> I just wish SD cards had bandwidth like SSDs

19:53 <Joerg-Neo900> yeah, unless you get UHS-3 or at least 2, it's sort of pointless

19:53 <Joerg-Neo900> sorry, UHS-III or II

19:54 <Joerg-Neo900> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secure_Digital#Speeds

20:05 <Joerg-Neo900> >>A study in 2012 found that, in this random-access use, some Class **2** cards achieved a write speed of 1.38 MB/s, while all cards tested of Class **6** or greater (and some of lower Classes; lower Class does not necessarily mean better small-file performance), including those from major manufacturers, were over 100 times **slower**<<

20:05 <Joerg-Neo900> it's _very_ tricky

20:07 <Joerg-Neo900> MonkeyofDoom: http://www.thessdreview.com/featured/ssd-throughput-latency-iopsexplained/ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IOPS

20:10 <Joerg-Neo900> 7,200 rpm SATA HDD: ~75-100 IOPS; Samsung SSD 850 PRO: 100,000 read IOPS

20:11 <Joerg-Neo900> SATA 3 Gbit/s vs SATA 6 Gbit/s - not like it would matter for IOPS

20:13 <Joerg-Neo900> Virident Systems tachIOn SSD PCIe: 320,000 sustained READ IOPS using 4KB blocks and 200,000 sustained WRITE IOPS using 4KB blocks

20:14 <Joerg-Neo900> LOL Kaminario K2 Up to 2,000,000 IOPS

20:15 <Joerg-Neo900> good one: https://www.cameramemoryspeed.com/reviews/micro-sd-cards/

20:17 <Joerg-Neo900> arbitrary SD-card: 3805 read IOPS vs 504 write IOPS (random access 4k)

20:19 <Joerg-Neo900> 4226 vs 400 on another test spec

20:21 <Joerg-Neo900> ~sdcard-speed is https://www.cameramemoryspeed.com/reviews/micro-sd-cards/

20:21 <infobot> okay, Joerg-Neo900

20:25 <drathir> Joerg-Neo900: it have heat camera or not yet?

20:25 <Joerg-Neo900> the S60? it has

20:27 <ShadowJK> I've been wanting phone with flir

20:29 <Joerg-Neo900> ShadowJK: the Cat S60 is great for FLIR, alas not so great for anything else

20:29 <ShadowJK> That's what I've heard

20:29 <Joerg-Neo900> FLIR realy kicks

20:30 <Joerg-Neo900> I wish I had goggles with built-in FLIR and AR head display

20:30 <Joerg-Neo900> FLIR is like a 5th sense

20:30 <Joerg-Neo900> 6th*

20:31 <Joerg-Neo900> you see the shape of a hand 5 minutes after the person sitting there with hand on table left the room

20:31 <Joerg-Neo900> you can not follow footprints on pavement, that's an urban legend

20:32 <Joerg-Neo900> you can however tell which cable or power supply or device is or recently was active

20:32 <Joerg-Neo900> awesome

20:33 <drathir> Joerg-Neo900: but cat-s phones mostly designed for heavy work not entertainment...

20:34 <Joerg-Neo900> I came into my usual pub, had a look around and told the innkeeper where there had been sitting people, he confirmed that there were actually people sitting until 15 minuates ago

20:35 <drathir> night vision + that kind of glasses would be great ;p

20:36 <Joerg-Neo900> graright. Waterproof to 2/5m (depending on closing the hatches), droptest proof 180cm to concrete

20:36 <Joerg-Neo900> drathir: ^^^

20:37 <Joerg-Neo900> it's clearly not an entertainment device

20:37 <Joerg-Neo900> pretty heavy and bulky (even without bulging battery ;-P)

20:37 <Joerg-Neo900> but awesome for the FLIR

20:38 <Joerg-Neo900> and no *finally* even rootable

20:38 <ShadowJK> rootable?

20:38 <Joerg-Neo900> well, I guess long term I will go for Neo900 with FLIR expansion

20:38 <Joerg-Neo900> :-D

20:39 <Joerg-Neo900> ShadowJK: https://forum.xda-developers.com/general/help/cat-s60-snapdragon-617-rootable-t3433018/post73310026#post73310026

20:40 <Joerg-Neo900> and *now* finally...

20:44 <drathir> yea android is best example good idea ends like always...

21:00 <Joerg-Neo900> good idea? android? GOOGLE? LOL https://xkcd.com/792/

21:01 <Joerg-Neo900> android is way more same concept like xkcd explained ^^^ here

21:04 <Joerg-Neo900> (I got this comic printed on paper in my flat's door outside ;-D )

21:12 <drathir> Joerg-Neo900: linux for phones was god idea ended at spying blocked devices ;/

21:12 <drathir> god/good*

21:13 <drathir> even not mention new os version buy new phone...

21:15 <drathir> yea pasword changing at google will remember in backward used previously passwords...

21:17 <drathir> and even better request logs from logging into own account they will reject request saying they cant share that kind of information ;p

21:25 <drathir> nice xkcd...

21:25 <drathir> Joerg-Neo900: question, anyone noticed that?

21:28 <drathir> Joerg-Neo900: for me the biggest blowmind was when android after hard factory reset at person device and fresh configure remembered a wifi access... one big wth they just kidding me...

21:29 <drathir> google maps targeting wifi, and android passwords... hell no...

21:41 <Joerg-Neo900> yes, they backup such stuff on their servers afaik

21:41 <Joerg-Neo900> makes me feel like changing my WLAN password

21:43 <Joerg-Neo900> I tried setting up a guest WLAN just for rogue devices like Android phones, but the FritzBox guest WLAN function is weird, it tries to create a VPN to internet so no local access to guest WLAN at all, and it fails to work when the FritzBox isn't the internet access point aka modem