<wuuru>
_JusSx_: so look at the collection of the examples :-)
<_JusSx_>
ok
<_JusSx_>
i must go to work :(
<wuuru>
to work, satturday afternoon? :-)
<_JusSx_>
yeah
<wuuru>
heh
<wuuru>
_JusSx_: is programming a good job in italy?
<wuuru>
like muc wanted and well-payed
<wuuru>
much
* wuuru
thinks about moving to a country with a better climate, such as spain or italy :-)
<_JusSx_>
lol
<wuuru>
why lol? :-)
<_JusSx_>
are u cold?
<wuuru>
yeah
<wuuru>
-3 C now, -20 in January
<_JusSx_>
yeah here 14 C
<wuuru>
:-)
<wuuru>
I visited Italy in February and I was choked with the weather
<wuuru>
here it was -20 C, and -15..20 in Rome :-)
<wuuru>
here it was -20 C, and +15..20 in Rome :-)
<_JusSx_>
rome is warmer than here
<wuuru>
oranges in the yard of my hotel impressed me too :-)
<wuuru>
when I went back to russia by plane
<wuuru>
I flew above a green italy
<wuuru>
then landed to the white-gray russia, with a white-gray snow and cold
<_JusSx_>
lol
<wuuru>
since then I dream about moving to a warmer country
<two-face>
but you're used to cold wheather
<wuuru>
_JusSx_: so, what about programming jobs in italy? :-)
<wuuru>
yes, but I hate the cold
<wuuru>
I seek in Spain, too
<wuuru>
with no much success :-)
<wuuru>
I know Spanish better than Italian, however :-)
<_JusSx_>
programming isn't my job
<two-face>
wait for few years
<wuuru>
_JusSx_: and what is you job?
<wuuru>
two-face: and what then? :-)
<_JusSx_>
i work for a bank
<two-face>
wuuru: noone is recruiting these days
<wuuru>
two-face: and in a few years... ?
<two-face>
economy
<wuuru>
_JusSx_: like what? a financier? :-)
<_JusSx_>
yeah
<wuuru>
_JusSx_: why are you interested in ocaml then? :-)
<_JusSx_>
programming is my hobby
<wuuru>
I think about a warm country with a good wine...
<_JusSx_>
i started with my C64 when i was 8
<_JusSx_>
yeah italy is for u
<wuuru>
I know spanish, and french and italian a bit worse
<_JusSx_>
italian wine is better
<wuuru>
but italian is very easy to learn better :-)
<two-face>
yes, go to Italy
<wuuru>
the problem is to find a job, job permission and visa :-)
<wuuru>
_JusSx_: italian wine is better than what? :-)
<two-face>
I thought they wouldn't let yout out in soviet union?
<_JusSx_>
it's bettern than french one
<wuuru>
two-face: yes... but... (surprise!) a soviet union did not exist since 1991, and we can now move freely :-)
<two-face>
what ?!!!
<two-face>
did I miss something?
<wuuru>
looks like :-)
<two-face>
but but
<two-face>
why I mr bond still alive then?
<wuuru>
two-face: 'why I mr bond still alive then' -- ?
<_JusSx_>
looooooooool
<two-face>
why is mr bond still alive then?
<_JusSx_>
this is a good question
<wuuru>
do you mean the english mr. bond, 007? :-)
<two-face>
yep
<two-face>
he's doing pointless job these days
<wuuru>
two-face: did mr. bond fight only against USSR? :-)
<two-face>
no, but he was at best when he did so
<wuuru>
_JusSx_: what is the price of renting an appartment in Modena? :-)
<wuuru>
_JusSx_: in Moscow the minimal price is now $300, in Valencia (Spain) it is about EUR 100 :-)
<Maddas>
Wow.
<_JusSx_>
400 euro per month
<Maddas>
for 100 euro you won't even get half a room here :-(
<wuuru>
two-face: did you really think the Russian could not leave the country these days? :-)
<Maddas>
(in the cities)
<wuuru>
Maddas: 'here'=when?
<_JusSx_>
Milan is more expensive
<Maddas>
wuuru: Switzerland
<_JusSx_>
bye
<wuuru>
Maddas: well, my Russian friend who moved to .ch is obliged to rent an appartment for minimum of $1000, in order to get a permission to stay there :-)
<two-face>
wuuru: no I didn't. The French Riviera is the favourite place of the russian mafia
<Maddas>
wuuru: :)
<mattam>
_JusSx_: italian wine better than our's ? i admit chianti is not bad, but you can't say that
<Maddas>
nono, Swiss wine is the real good thing!
* Maddas
chokes from laughing
<mattam>
it's a matter of taste anyway :!)
<wuuru>
In Russia, I prefer to buy italian, spanish, chilean wines because there are less expensive than the French
<mattam>
how can swiss make wine at such altitudes ?
<wuuru>
I don't know why, but a bottle of wine that costs EUR 3 in Western Europe here costs more than EUR 10 :-(
<mattam>
chilean like 'from chili, south america' ???
<wuuru>
Maddas: yeah :-)
<mattam>
duh!
<wuuru>
Maddas: haven't you ever tasted a chilean wine? :-)
<wuuru>
mattam: haven't you ever tasted a chilean wine? :-)
<mattam>
is it 'drinkable' ?
<mattam>
no, not yet
<wuuru>
yea
<mattam>
it's on my TODO now
<wuuru>
very drinkable
<wuuru>
like White Santa Rita
<wuuru>
the best white wine I have ever tasted
<wuuru>
but of course, you can easily encounter bad chili whines too..
<mattam>
did you ever tried 'sauvignon' or 'bergerac' ?
<wuuru>
yes
<wuuru>
sauvignon is very popular in russia
<wuuru>
more from Moldova
<wuuru>
but from France and Chile too :-)
<mattam>
haha
<wuuru>
mattam: but, as far as I know, sauvignon is a cepage wine, and cepage wines are not considered a high quality wine in france
<mattam>
yep
<wuuru>
mattam: however, I don't know if you are able to find a good chilean wine in .ch
<mattam>
i'm in .fr
<wuuru>
mattam: when i was in italy or spain I noted they only have their local wines in the hops
<wuuru>
ah
<wuuru>
in the shops
<wuuru>
here in russia we have no any good wine of our own
<wuuru>
so we have wines of many other countries (very expensive, though)
<mattam>
yeah, they're not yet in the 'global world of trade' i suppose
<mattam>
and you are
<wuuru>
and here it is very easy to buy a chilean or argentienean wine just like a french or italian
<wuuru>
and all are very expensive
<two-face>
wuuru: I've read a biography of Petrovitch, very interesting
<wuuru>
like price*3
<Maddas>
wuuru: in .ch?
<Maddas>
do you mean chile?
<wuuru>
two-face: which Petrovish? :-)
<wuuru>
Maddas: eh? I have never been to .ch :-)
<two-face>
the first of course
<two-face>
the Great
<two-face>
no the first
<wuuru>
two-face: hmmm
<Maddas>
wuuru: .ch? As in chile?
<wuuru>
two-face: may be 'Petr'? :-)
<two-face>
around 1700 you know
<wuuru>
Maddas: .ch is the top-level domain of Switzerland :-)
<Maddas>
wuuru: yes, I just wonderedbhm
<Maddas>
hm
<Maddas>
wuuru: yes, I thought you meant Chile. Must have misread the sentence :)
<wuuru>
two-face: in might be 'Peter' :-)
<two-face>
wuuru: Peter is the english name
<wuuru>
two-face: well, in Russian it is 'Petr', and 'Petrovich' is something like "a Petr's son"
<two-face>
wuuru: gah, sorry, you're right
<wuuru>
Õß Õß!..
<two-face>
what?
<wuuru>
:-)
<two-face>
KOI8?
<wuuru>
yes. how do you know about KOI8? :-)
<two-face>
i guessed
<wuuru>
:-)
<Riastradh>
He randomly pressed a sequence of keys and produced KOI8.
<wuuru>
and ÐÒÉ×ÅÔ is 'hello' i koi8 :-)
<two-face>
good but I can't read KOI8 currently
* wuuru
has recently applied for a position in a spanish university (declarative languages)
<wuuru>
but they have chosen another candidate from 60 applied
<wuuru>
how would I move to the country of my dream... I don't know...
<two-face>
your country needs you
<wuuru>
no
<wuuru>
in any case, I don't need it :-)
<two-face>
i'm not surprised
<wuuru>
:-)
<wuuru>
two-face: why? don't you love france?
<two-face>
i do
<two-face>
and i'm not going to leave it
<two-face>
even if it is going worse
<wuuru>
in russia, it is too cold, and the people's faces you meet on the streets are too dark
<two-face>
there is no ideal plac
<two-face>
e
<wuuru>
I have been to spain for a month this year and I love it
<wuuru>
and I love italy too :-)
<two-face>
sure
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<Vincenz>
Ocaml 3.07?
<Vincenz>
What's new in it?
<mattam>
recursive modules definitions
<Vincenz>
hmm
* Vincenz
never got to the point of working with modules
<mattam>
the ChangeLog on caml.inria.fr is more verbose than me Vincenz
<Vincenz>
Actually I had surfed to www.ocaml.org but I hadn't found any place where it states the diffs
<Vincenz>
Got it
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<_JusSx_>
wuuru i'm back
<_JusSx_>
ok
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<Xolution>
hey, i'm a bit confused about the Arg module
<Xolution>
the stuff in the 3.07 release docs doesn't make sense to me
<_JusSx_>
heya do u use emacs for editing?
<Xolution>
yes
<_JusSx_>
Xolution are u a gentoo users?
<_JusSx_>
Xolution are u a gentoo user?
<Xolution>
with the tuareg mode
<Xolution>
no
<_JusSx_>
ok thanx
<Xolution>
not yet, anyway... in less than one week i may be though
<Xolution>
(autoload 'camldebug "camldebug" "Run the Caml debugger" t)
<Xolution>
In my init.el (XEmacs)
<_JusSx_>
ok thanx a lot
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<_JusSx_>
wuuru : heya
<_JusSx_>
wuuru : are u there?
<teratorn>
or just do apt-get install tuareg-mode
<teratorn>
:)
<_JusSx_>
teratorn are u using gentoo?
<teratorn>
nah
<teratorn>
gentoo probably has it tough
<_JusSx_>
what distro?
<wuuru>
_JusSx_: yes
<_JusSx_>
wuuru : i tried to install tuared-mode for emacs
<_JusSx_>
wuuru : i tried to install tuareg-mode for emacs
<_JusSx_>
do u use it?
<wuuru>
no, I use vim :-)
<_JusSx_>
lol
<_JusSx_>
ok
<_JusSx_>
this isn't a luck day
<_JusSx_>
i got an error . i can't install because my tuareg-mode has got the wrong md5
<wuuru>
it might be trojaned then :-)
<_JusSx_>
>>> our recorded digest: a7de9963d43be31110fc26ccdc3e2cfc
<_JusSx_>
>>> your file's digest: 587465789299539f9d0485118ba9fac6
<_JusSx_>
wuuru i think functional programming is really interesting
<wuuru>
I think so too :-)
<Xolution>
wait, you mean people in a functional language's IRC channel find functional programming interesting?!
<_JusSx_>
well
<_JusSx_>
i read about functional language today
<_JusSx_>
i can do nothing
<mellum>
_JusSx_: read SICP
<_JusSx_>
SICP^
<_JusSx_>
?
<mellum>
google for it
<_JusSx_>
mellum: what is it?
<_JusSx_>
why should i read it?
<mellum>
It looked like you were interested in learning functional programming.
<_JusSx_>
yeah
<_JusSx_>
i'm
<_JusSx_>
i was reading ocalm-ora-book
<_JusSx_>
i was reading ocaml-ora-book
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<_JusSx_>
Xolution are u a god?
<Xolution>
of course
<Xolution>
(um... why are you asking?)
<_JusSx_>
you seem a god
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<wuuru>
_JusSx_: SICP is to thick, read whyfp and you'll a lot of things in one day :-)
<_JusSx_>
wuuru : i read whyfp
<wuuru>
good :-)
<_JusSx_>
but it's quite hard
<_JusSx_>
well the first part is easy
<_JusSx_>
the examples are harder
<_JusSx_>
i programmed for long time with procedural languages
<_JusSx_>
this is the prob
<Smerdyakov>
That's not a problem by itself.
<Smerdyakov>
It's a problem if you have memorized a few code patterns for procedural languages and you construct all programs by combining those. :-)
<_JusSx_>
well i always programmed from the scratch
<Smerdyakov>
I said _memorized_. Not copied-and-pasted.
<_JusSx_>
i haven't a god memory
<_JusSx_>
:(
<Smerdyakov>
It's still possible to only learn to program through memorization.
<Demitar>
My one hardest thing to understand when going to ocaml from the cish world was the way function application works. ie fun arg1 arg2 ... vs fun(arg1, arg2, ...).
<_JusSx_>
is this the official ocaml irc channel?
<vect>
es
<vect>
*yes
<Demitar>
vect, it's official? :)
<Smerdyakov>
Demitar, you mean understanding what currying is?
<vect>
demitar there is a link on inria's web page.
<_JusSx_>
Demitar : you are rigth
<vect>
IIRC
<mellum>
Well, you can get pretty far by ignoring the existence of currying
<Demitar>
Smerdyakov, well for some reason I just couldn't wrap my mind around it. Let's just say the examples doing let main () = didn't really help. :)
<Smerdyakov>
Demitar, I think it would be pretty bad to not be able to understand a different syntax for function calls. It's reasonable not to understand currying, though. Which do you mean?
<wuuru>
Demitar: what's difficult with that? let f = (+) is a funcion taking to arguments, let f = (+) 2 is a function taking one argument and adding 2 to it :-)
<_JusSx_>
wuuru : yeah i have just studies
<_JusSx_>
wuuru : yeah i have just studied
<_JusSx_>
lol
<wuuru>
:-) :-)
<wuuru>
_JusSx_: you could probably install 'hugs' for trying the examples in the paper
<wuuru>
_JusSx_: it is Haskell, however, not ocaml :-)
<wuuru>
or even miranda... a predecessor of haskell
<_JusSx_>
ocalm is dialet, right?
<_JusSx_>
ocaml is dialet, right?
<wuuru>
a dialect of ML, yes
<wuuru>
not haskell :-)
<_JusSx_>
i'm reading ocaml-ora-book now
<_JusSx_>
i downloaded cdk.pdf too
<_JusSx_>
by now i can make : let succ x = x + 1;;
<_JusSx_>
or something like that
<wuuru>
the whyfp example are possible to try in haskell (hugs) with a little bit of syntactic changes
<wuuru>
examples
<wuuru>
it is a bit harder to transform them to ocaml code :-)
<_JusSx_>
first i need to learn ocaml then i can code by myself
<wuuru>
but the paper is excellent imho
<wuuru>
as for CDK... looks like it is not supported for more than 2 years
<_JusSx_>
heya wuuru . if i would code hex printer how can i start ?
<Smerdyakov>
The same way you'd start in languages you already know.
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<Smerdyakov>
When you don't know how to do something in OCaml, then look for how to do it.
<wuuru>
_JusSx_: well, you will need something like Printf.printf "%x\n" (Char.code 'a') for printing 'a' as hex '61' :-)
<_JusSx_>
but i can find these functions in modules. right?
<wuuru>
yes, ocamlbrowser will help you
<wuuru>
it shows all the modules available and the functions in them
<Smerdyakov>
_JusSx_, I think it would be best for you to do exercises from some book/tutorial.
<_JusSx_>
Smerdyakov : i know
<Smerdyakov>
_JusSx_, they will generally introduce beforehand all language features and standard functions that make sense to use in the exercises.
<Smerdyakov>
So, if you are looking for a function to do something, then you are probably not approaching this correctly.
<_JusSx_>
i studied C, C++, Java by myself
<wuuru>
Smerdyakov: why? :-)
<_JusSx_>
i think i can learn ocaml too
<Smerdyakov>
wuuru, because it indicates not following the order of reading and exercises in the book.
<wuuru>
Smerdyakov: I think it is a good idea to find a function you need in a standard library, and if it is not there, to write it yourself... the excercises will not list all the functions :-)
<Smerdyakov>
wuuru, if they don't list all the functions, they should.
<_JusSx_>
wuuru mine was an example
<Smerdyakov>
wuuru, the text should already have covered anything you need to use to do the exercises.
<_JusSx_>
i don't care to code a hex printer
<Smerdyakov>
_JusSx_, examples that use I/O (including printing) are bad choices for learning functional programming.
<wuuru>
Smerdyakov: ah, true about the exercises, but not true about your own tasks :-)
<_JusSx_>
printing
<_JusSx_>
i mean console output and input
<Smerdyakov>
_JusSx_, yeah. You shouldn't try to write programs that use that until you are comfortable with the language.
<wuuru>
you should write the programs that do many thinks but keep the result invisible :-)
<wuuru>
many things
<_JusSx_>
this is a difference from C, C++ for example
<Smerdyakov>
No. You should use the interactive environment to take input (in the form of arguments to functions) and display output (by pretty-printing function return values).
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<Smerdyakov>
wuuru, why?
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<_JusSx_>
what do u mean?
<_JusSx_>
run ocalm
<wuuru>
Smerdyakov: no 'readline'
<_JusSx_>
and got # prompt?
<_JusSx_>
ocaml*
<Smerdyakov>
_JusSx_, yes
<wuuru>
Smerdyakov: and I know about ledit, that still sucks :-)
<_JusSx_>
yeah i'm using it now
<Smerdyakov>
wuuru, I use emacs, myself.
<wuuru>
ah..
<Smerdyakov>
wuuru, it's silly to have readline when emacs can do it all better.
<_JusSx_>
Smerdyakov i would use emacs too
<_JusSx_>
my gentoo tuareg package isn't okk
<wuuru>
Smerdyakov: if you use emacs, yes
<Smerdyakov>
wuuru, it's silly not to use emacs.
<wuuru>
:-) :-)
<_JusSx_>
one question
<_JusSx_>
but do u know any window user of ocaml?
<_JusSx_>
but d14:52:36 <_JusSx_> u all are using linux or other unix os
<Smerdyakov>
Maybe if you typed in complete, grammatically correct sentences, you would be easier to understand!
<Smerdyakov>
(That includes not using 'u', using plurals correctly, etc.)
<_JusSx_>
WINDOWS MICROSOFT
<_JusSx_>
OK?
<wuuru>
windows users are losers, we don't need to know about them :-)
<_JusSx_>
wuuru ok
<Smerdyakov>
No, _JusSx_, not OK!
<_JusSx_>
Smerdyakov : if u can understand u can reply me
<_JusSx_>
but if can't don't reply me
<_JusSx_>
ok?
<Smerdyakov>
No, _JusSx_, not OK!
<wuuru>
:-) :-) :-)
<_JusSx_>
next time i will post question in italian
<mellum>
History is a cool thing
<Smerdyakov>
Free tips: it's "reply to me," not "reply me."
<Smerdyakov>
And it's "if you can't, ...", not "if can't, ..."
<_JusSx_>
Smerdyakov where are u from?
<wuuru>
or, I understand italian
<Smerdyakov>
USA
<_JusSx_>
looooooooooooooooooool
<_JusSx_>
poor guys
<_JusSx_>
you americans
<_JusSx_>
have you defeated syphillis?
<_JusSx_>
no i don't think
* Smerdyakov
raises an eyebrow.
<Xolution>
yeah... that makes about 0 sense
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<wuuru>
one more poor guy :-)
<Demitar>
Smerdyakov, wuuru: Well I didn't say it was logical, but all the new syntax and typing confused me at first. That said I'm much more comfortable with OCaml than C these days.
<Smerdyakov>
Demitar, you must have been a smelly womprat!
<wuuru>
Demitar: :-)
<Demitar>
Smerdyakov, I was deep in the C++ swamp to say the least. :)
<_JusSx_>
wuuru : perchè dici cosi?
<_JusSx_>
wuuru : il mio inglese fara cagare ma gli americani fanno peggio
<Smerdyakov>
Lo ho trovato un italiano e come di consueto preferito per fare un passo soltanto sugli infanti.
<_JusSx_>
Smerdyakov dovresti imparare l'italiano prima di scrivere cazzate grammaticalment scorrette
<async>
hey Smerdyakov
<Smerdyakov>
Ciao, async.
<async>
im going to SF tonight
<async>
Cirque de Soleil
<async>
my CS class is over
<_JusSx_>
Smerdyakov traduci questo to madra le na vaca
<Smerdyakov>
That is a thing!
<async>
Smerdyakov: what are you doing for break
<async>
staying here?
<Smerdyakov>
_JusSx_, È falso. Dite alle bugie ed incitate la vostra madre a cry.
<Smerdyakov>
async, for most of it.
<async>
research?
<Smerdyakov>
Partly.
<_JusSx_>
Smerdyakov It's false. you tell to the lies and you want your mother to cry.
<_JusSx_>
Smerdyakov : really good
<Smerdyakov>
Conosco così tanto l'italiano il re dei E-maihi dell'Italia me domande italiane per le emergenze.
<_JusSx_>
Smerdyakov : what FUCK are u saying? you typed words with no sense
<Smerdyakov>
Sono l'inventore di senso. I possedere il marchio su senso.
<_JusSx_>
well a lot of americans are affected by syphillis. It can defeated with 12euro. you are the richest country of the world but you haven't money to save your citizens.
<_JusSx_>
but you have money to make bombs. this is a great investment for future.
<_JusSx_>
you are great
<_JusSx_>
.
<Smerdyakov>
I am great!
* ayrnieu
begins to wake up, noticing a boring america-is-evil argument, and then goes back to sleep.