vect changed the topic of #ocaml to: OCaml 3.07 ! -- Archive of Caml Weekly News: http://pauillac.inria.fr/~aschmitt/cwn, ICFP'03 http://www.icfpcontest.org/, A tutorial: http://merjis.com/richj/computers/ocaml/tutorial/, A free book: http://cristal.inria.fr/~remy/cours/appsem, Mailing List (best ml ever for any computer language): http://caml.inria.fr/bin/wilma/caml-list
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<tomasso> hahahaha errors returned by ocaml are really comprehensive
<ayrnieu> Do you say that seriously or unseriously?
<tomasso> seriusly
<tomasso> hahaha
<ayrnieu> I'll take you at that, then.
<tomasso> i used haskell for some time and got mad with the crazy errors it returned
<ayrnieu> er, OK.
<tomasso> and when ocaml returns errors i feel like if somebody else were telling me HEYY!! DONT BE STUPID! YOU FORGOT SOMETHING!
<ayrnieu> er, OK.
<tomasso> Here is a case for which your function doesnt work...
<tomasso> hahaha
<tomasso> good
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<pattern> does ocaml qualify as a "lightweight scripting language"? http://www.advogato.org/article/735.html
* ayrnieu looks.
<ayrnieu> That page doesn't really explain what it means by 'lightweight scripting languages', or even what 'lightweight' means, except to refer to languages that it holds as examples of 'lightweight' or otherwise. It doesn't even explain what it means by 'scripting language', except to imply that such languages have C-embeddability as a significant feature.
<ayrnieu> So please ask a question in your own terms.
<lms> I say yes
<pattern> yeah, one of the replies to that guy's question noted the vagueness
<pattern> it's an interesting thought, though
<ayrnieu> It seems mistitled, anyway. I think he really wants to ask about 'lightweight extension languages'.
<ayrnieu> I don't really understand what thought you refer to, sorry.
<ayrnieu> also, see what thought.
<pattern> personally, i'd say a lightweight scripting language should be one that can be embedded in a typical appliance, like a vcr
<ayrnieu> OK, but please don't ever use 'scripting language' for such a classification.
<pattern> ok :)
<pattern> i'm easy
<pattern> "extension language"
<ayrnieu> No, "extension language" doesn't fit with your described classification either.
<ayrnieu> Anyway, I'd probably use Forth for that VCR =)
<pattern> traitor!
<pattern> :)
<ayrnieu> eh, no, just practical as far as VCRs go.
<lms> the Io site has an interesting page as far as "language size" goes
<lms> not saying it's meaningful really, though
<ayrnieu> The Io site also has too much of its author's fairly silly opinions =)
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<lms> Scheme48's code is for pre-scheme, there is still a lot of pre-scheme code in it yo make the whole of what it is...
<lms> like what ayrnieu?
<pattern> there's no ocaml on that io site
<ayrnieu> "All are dynamically typed except Java which is statically typed(this makes Java less flexible). All are strongly typed except Perl which is weakly typed(this makes Perl prone to memory access error crashes)."
<pattern> "No attempt was made to remove comments"
<lms> sorry pattern, I was responding to the general question about scripting languages :)
<pattern> that makes the statistics meaningless right there
<lms> hehe!
<lms> like I said... heh
<pattern> some poorly commented code would rate as a "small language"
<lms> or poorly formated :)
* lms makes a one line Scheme interpreter
<pattern> also, obfuscated source with everything on one line would automatically win :)
<lms> haha :D
<pattern> and it ignores expressiveness of the source language, and assumes all languages are written in c
<pattern> and then there's the skill of the programmer to take in to account
<lms> heh, I've never actually read this guys page
<pattern> it'd probably be better to rate on the size of the resulting binary, with maximum optimization
<lms> I don't like smalltalk like languages...
<ayrnieu> lms - how many have you dealt with?
<lms> just smalltalk :)
<lms> well, squeak
<ayrnieu> I've only ever really played with Slate, which has smalltalk-like syntax. Smalltalk itself has never really drawn my interest.
<lms> personal opinion though, not trying to say they suck
<lms> the main reason I'm interested in ocaml is the speed of its compiler
<lms> and I know that's probably a lame reason, but I'm just being honest :)
<ayrnieu> No, not a lame reason.
<pattern> speed's a big factor in my choice of ocaml also
<pattern> but it has a lot of other advantages also
<pattern> no need to preach to the converted, though :)
<ayrnieu> (I sometimes think of O'Caml as the language to use instead of C.)
<ayrnieu> indeed.
<Riastradh> ACTION arrives belatedly to the conversation and continues lms's comment about Scheme48's VM: not only is the VM really written in [Pre-]Scheme, and not only is there less than half the amount of Pre-Scheme -- modulo comments -- in the Scheme48 VM as they claim, but also what they're measuring is not just the amount of C in the VM source generated by the Pre-Scheme compiler but also everything else related to C in the source,
<Riastradh> If you take just the Pre-Scheme in the VM, hmm, you happen to get _less_ than in the Io VM...
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<tomasso> anyone tried compiling the cameleon ide??
<tomasso> because when i do make it returns:
<tomasso> File "/root/tmp/camlppee3922", line 155, characters 31-32:
<tomasso> Expecting function has type x:int -> y:int -> unit
<tomasso> This argument cannot be applied with label ~button
<tomasso> make[3]: *** [gpattern.cmo] Error 2
<tomasso> ...
<tomasso> ..
<lms> on windows here, so nope, sorry
<lms> looks really cool tho
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<ott> re all
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<lms> Reference to undefined global `Graphics'
<lms> what's that mean? :(
<lms> ahh, nm
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<tomasso> are there video games written in SDL??
<tomasso> written using the sdl libraries, in ocaml, sorry :D
<avn> tomasso: I saw two or three - look at humps
<avn> I also have a question
<tomasso> humps? let me check :D
<tomasso> what question?
<avn> I try to write small parser as pointed in O'Reily book
<avn> let rec myparser foo = match foo with parser [< 'Kwd .....
<avn> And I can't compile it
<tomasso> hmh what does it return?
<avn> I got a syntax error at [<
<avn> May be some options to compiler must be specified?
<clausjohnson> Try doing 'open Genlex'
<clausjohnson> Just just using like match foo with Kwd k -> stuff | Int i -> more_stuff ...
<clausjohnson> instead of using that [< stuff
<avn> file have 'open Genlex' clause
<avn> clausjohnson: [< syntax is obsoletted?
<clausjohnson> I don't know about that for sure, but [< 'Kwd k >] never worked for me
<clausjohnson> whereas just Kwd k does
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<avn> And what i need to wrote small syntax parser?
<avn> I won't use ocamlyacc because in this syntax commands separator may be changed dynamically form '\n' to ';', or back]
<avn> May be you point me to some actual docs of FAQ?
<avn> cjohnson: how i can use Genlex?
<cjohnson> Just look at the reference docs in the ocaml manual, that's what I did anyway
<cjohnson> I wrote a really small parser/interpreter for a small language, you can look at that code to help you if you want (http://www.cs.wcu.edu/~cjohnson/interpreter.ml)
<avn> Thanks, I looking on it
<avn> I think it really good example
<cjohnson> oh, _JusSx_, btw, I got tuareg-mode to work with GNU emacs (finally) ... still don't know why it wasn't working originally
<tomasso> does anyone use the ocaml ide cameleon?
* avn use vi or mcedit because all my programs is very small ;)
<tomasso> haha but cameleon looks very good!
<tomasso> it has nice guis to the debugger and all that stuff
<tomasso> i cant compile it!!
<_JusSx_> cjohnson : hi
<_JusSx_> cjohnson : great
<tomasso> what are the ocaml file extensions??
<tomasso> *.ml ??
<tomasso> is there any other?
<_JusSx_> .ocaml
<_JusSx_> lol
<_JusSx_> .mli
<tomasso> okkk
<tomasso> does anyone use cameleon??
<tomasso> or tried to compile it?
<_JusSx_> cameleon
<_JusSx_> what is it?
<tomasso> its an ocaml ide
<tomasso> that has a nice interface to debugger etc etc..
<_JusSx_> ahh ok
<_JusSx_> now i'm not using it
<tomasso> i cant compile it :(
<_JusSx_> cjohnson : how longs do u play with ocaml?
<cjohnson> i've screwed with since june or so, i guess
<_JusSx_> i read your interpreter.ml file
<cjohnson> heh, okay
<tomasso> buaaaa! :'(
<tomasso> i cant compile cameleon!! and i like its screenshots!!
<tomasso> buaaaa! :'(
<Riastradh> tomasso, just use Emacs.
<tomasso> its dificult to use ...
<tomasso> im writing a kate xml sintax highlighting file
<Riastradh> Of course it's difficult to use if you don't know how to use it. Cameleon will be just as difficult to use when you first try it out.
<Riastradh> That's why we have C-h t.
<cjohnson> did you like it, _JusSx_?
<tomasso> yeah... but is nice :D
<Riastradh> 'It is nice?' How do you know how well it works if you have never been able to use it before, and it's so broken it won't even compile?
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<tomasso> hahaha you are right...
<tomasso> but the screenshots looks gooood ;)
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<Nomme> hi
Nomme is now known as Marc
<Smerdyakov> Well, hellooooooo there, Nomme/Marc.
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<Nomme> hello :)
<Nomme> i have a little problem
<Smerdyakov> LADY TROUBLES?
<Nomme> i don't find "nums.cma"
<Nomme> is there anything change with nums.cma and 3.07 ?
* Smerdyakov knows nothing on that subject.
<Nomme> hum
<Nomme> :)
<Nomme> bzzz
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<Nomme> i have a big recursiv function and it doesn't return the type i want, are there a way to force a function type or to find my error ?
<Nomme> strange
<Nomme> are there [O]Caml coders here ?
<Nomme> i see :)
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<mattam> Nomme: you can try 'let rec f a : int -> int = ...
<Nomme> thanks
<Nomme> File "expr.ml", line 74, characters 53-63:
<Nomme> This expression has type (string * Expr.t) list but is here used with type
<Nomme> (string * t) list
<Nomme> it's the same "t"
<Nomme> why doesn't it work ?
<mattam> hmmm
<mattam> don't know :)
<Etaoin> more context would help
<Nomme> the context is so huge :/
<Nomme> t is define in expr.ml
<Nomme> there is only one type with this name "t"
<mattam> maybe you wrote (string * t) list and you should write ... Expr.t ...
<Nomme> the error is there : "(context@(!environ))"
<Nomme> where "context is (string * t) list
<Nomme> grr
* Nomme lost
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