#ocaml on 2003-12-28 — irc logs at freenode.irclog.whitequark.org

2003-09-29 18:59 vect changed the topic of #ocaml to: OCaml 3.07 ! -- Archive of Caml Weekly News: http://pauillac.inria.fr/~aschmitt/cwn, ICFP'03 http://www.icfpcontest.org/, A tutorial: http://merjis.com/richj/computers/ocaml/tutorial/, A free book: http://cristal.inria.fr/~remy/cours/appsem, Mailing List (best ml ever for any computer language): http://caml.inria.fr/bin/wilma/caml-list

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01:00 <drWorm_> "This expression has type reason but is here used with type reason" -- uhu?

01:01 <drWorm_> can't types and record labels have the same names?

01:29 <ayrnieu> Paste the code, please.

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01:40 <Abidbol> hello

01:47 <Abidbol> I've made knot in my modules, is there someone able to help me ?

01:48 <Abidbol> i can't compile a module A because it use a module B, but i can't compile B because it use the module A.

01:49 <teratorn> ugh nastly circular module depndencies

01:49 <Abidbol> in fact, the problem is not while i compile but while i link

01:49 <teratorn> "don't do that"

01:50 <Abidbol> hum

01:50 <Abidbol> i cut in modules in order not to have too big files

01:50 <teratorn> "too big files" is the reason for using modules

01:51 <teratorn> it's just one of the good by-products

01:51 <teratorn> go ahead and refactor the parts that both modules need in to a third module

01:52 <Abidbol> my brain is going to burst

01:52 <Abidbol> ok, i'll try

01:57 <Abidbol> what kind of program do you make with [O]Caml ?

02:00 <Abidbol> i learn OCaml, alone with books because i think it's a very elegent language

02:00 <Abidbol> but i'm just a student and the only "big" application i've ever seen in ocaml is HeVeA.

02:02 <mattam> you can write any sort of software with OCaml, there is Coq, a theorem prover, or SpamOracle a spam filter, or bindings for Gtk or anything one could think of

02:03 <ayrnieu> Well, O'Caml doesn't work as well for certain kinds of programs as more Lispier languages.

02:04 <Abidbol> i know there is many possibilities but they seem unexploited

02:04 <teratorn> I think ocaml could have a larger "market" so to speak if it had better support for being used as an optimization language

02:05 <ayrnieu> abid - http://www.dcs.napier.ac.uk/course-notes/sml/readers.htm

02:05 <teratorn> whereas all vhll's are optimized in C today

02:05 <Abidbol> thanks

02:06 <ayrnieu> and an actual O'Caml-python might've formed if the Vyper author hadn't stuck a useless license on his code.

02:07 <teratorn> there's also pycaml, but it needs more work to extend python, (as it, it's best as extending ocaml w/ python)

02:09 <Abidbol> (teratorn: i have just resolved my module's problem. Thanks)

02:11 <teratorn> how did you do?

02:13 <Abidbol> I isolated the part that both modules need

02:13 <Abidbol> :)

02:14 <Abidbol> it was just an exception :/

02:15 <Abidbol> i'm writting a pseudo-scheme interpreter to spend time during hollydays

02:16 <ayrnieu> You should implement Pre-Scheme, instead =)

02:18 <Abidbol> i have name *my* language CHEMEU (pronuncation of scheme in french), there is only "define", "lambda" and "if" syntax :).

02:20 <mattam> Abidbol: skim is a nicer pronunciation

02:20 <ayrnieu> (defmacro if (l) `(cond (,@(first l) ,@(second l)) (else ,@(third l))))

02:21 <Abidbol> there isn't macros :)

02:22 <ayrnieu> Please don't call it Scheme if it doesn't have macros.

02:22 <Abidbol> "che-meu" :)

02:22 <ayrnieu> If you implement scheme48's pre-scheme, you can use its coded-in-pre-scheme scheme.

02:22 <drWorm_> ayrnieu: sorry for the delay, i put up the relevant bits at http://www.ii.uib.no/~haakon/tmp/error.ml with the error message -- i'm a newbie, excuse any ugliness ;)

02:23 <ayrnieu> drWorm - sorry for what delay?

02:23 <drWorm_> 02:29:38 < ayrnieu> Paste the code, please.

02:26 <drWorm_> reason_of_string is string -> reason, and the record expects a reason type for the reason label, i can't see what's wrong

02:27 <ayrnieu> drWorm - to answer your question rather than solve your problem: type log_entry = { name : string; reason : reason };; let x = {name = "hello"; reason = Escaped };; print_string (if x.reason = Escaped then "Escaped!" else "wha?");;

02:29 <ayrnieu> also, let reason = Escaped in {name = "hello"; reason = reason};;

02:29 <ayrnieu> So I'd guess that you want to talk more about reason_of_string.

02:30 <drWorm_> hm hm ...

02:31 <drWorm_> i included it in error.ml now if you want to see it, but i take hints rather than solutions :)

02:33 <drWorm_> i've tested it though, it really does what i want it to

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02:40 <drWorm_> heh, it seems to work if i move "reason = reason_of_string reason" up a line

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03:02 <Abidbol> good night all

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04:47 <Abidbol> good morning

04:47 <Abidbol> i have a problem with ocamlyacc :)

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06:28 <phubuh> hrm

06:28 <ayrnieu> hm?

06:28 <phubuh> why am I getting a bunch of undefined refs to ocaml functions when I'm linking my program with ocamlopt? stuff like CamlinternalOO__new_method_199, StringLabels, etc

06:29 <phubuh> ocamlfind ocamlopt -package pcre unix.cmxa str.cmxa util.o unixStream.o stringx. o accumulator.o user.o dcParser.o bitstream.o huffmanEncoder.o dcClient.o fsTrav erse.o testing.o \

06:29 <phubuh> -o scout

06:34 <phubuh> also, why is ocamlcp so broken? :(

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12:41 <_JusS_> ehya

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15:04 <drWorm_> isn't it possible to make an "anonymous" function with more than one argument? 'function a -> a * a' is fine, but what if i want to do a * b, for instance?

15:05 <drWorm_> specifically, i want to pass an anonymous function to Array.sort

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15:15 <ayrnieu> fun a b -> ...

15:15 <ayrnieu> also, please don't confuse tuples with multiple arguments.

15:30 <drWorm_> oh cool, i didn't know about fun, only function

15:31 <drWorm_> and i know about the tuples thing, it's pointed out in every tutorial :)

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18:23 <drWorm_> is there any way to "include" other ml files, something remotely like #include in C?

18:30 <phubuh> I think you can use #use, but I've never found any use for it myself

18:30 <phubuh> it's almost always better to use the module system

18:33 <drWorm_> ah, that's maybe an idea

18:35 <phubuh> a module is implicitly created for every file, named after the file name sans extension with the first letter uppercased; foo.ml creates Foo, etc. to use a symbol from another module, just do ModuleName.symbol, and make sure to link it into your executable

18:35 <drWorm_> cool, thanks

19:43 <_JusSx_> k

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23:22 <drWorm> does ocaml pass arguments as references? so there's no performace loss in passing potentially huge data structures many times (as in recursion)?

23:23 <codeburnt> take the reference of your argument?

23:23 <codeburnt> ref object

23:25 <drWorm> and without ref it's pass-by-value?

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23:26 <codeburnt> no

23:26 <codeburnt> only it its a primitive

23:28 <codeburnt> everything is a reference

23:29 <drWorm> ah, i see

23:30 <codeburnt> do u like ocaml

23:30 <drWorm> very much :)

23:30 <codeburnt> me 2

23:30 <drWorm> although i'm pretty new to it yet

23:31 <codeburnt> the only problem with it is you can't mix compiled and interpreter code

23:31 <Riastradh> codeburnt, what do you mean by that?

23:31 <drWorm> hm, doesn't sound so important :)

23:32 <drWorm> i was a little set back by not having function overloading, but i guess it's not needed

23:32 <codeburnt> you can't afaik call native compiled functions from the bytecode interpreter

23:32 <phubuh> not having function overloading really blows

23:33 <Riastradh> Not having _typeclasses_ really blows.

23:33 <phubuh> yes

23:33 <drWorm> typeclasses?

23:33 <Riastradh> Actually, you don't even need them. All you need is camlp4, or manual typeclass transformation.

23:34 <phubuh> could type classes or something equivalent be implemented conveniently with camlp4?

23:35 <drWorm> what's camlp4 anyway? i don't have it

23:35 <Riastradh> The Caml Pre-Processor & Pretty-Printer.

23:35 <drWorm> oh

23:35 <drWorm> the thing that takes care of #use etc?

23:35 <codeburnt> like cmucl, or bigloo you can mix native compiled and interpreted code but ocaml you can't yet

23:36 <codeburnt> you have to either have your whole program native compiled or else the whole thing bytecoded

23:37 <phubuh> the fact that ocamlcp is entirely broken is also somewhat annoying

23:38 <Riastradh> ocamlcp?

23:38 <drWorm> the profiling compiler :)

23:38 <phubuh> the profiling bytecode compiler

23:42 <phubuh> what?! I just tried it again, and it appears to work just fine

23:42 <phubuh> that's, uhm, good.

23:47 <phubuh> oh, profiling bytecode appears to be rather useless in any case

23:47 <phubuh> Profiling with ocamlprof only records execution counts, not the actual time spent into each function. There is currently no way to perform time profiling on bytecode programs generated by ocamlc.

23:51 <phubuh> that wouldn't be much of a problem, if ocamlopt worked, since then I could use gprof

23:53 <phubuh> http://www.phubuh.org/~phubuh/ocamlopt.txt ?!