Banana changed the topic of #ocaml to: OCaml 3.08 "Bastille Day" Release available ! -- Archive of Caml Weekly News: http://pauillac.inria.fr/~aschmitt/cwn , A tutorial: http://merjis.com/richj/computers/ocaml/tutorial/ , A free book: http://cristal.inria.fr/~remy/cours/appsem, Mailing List (best ml ever for any computer language): http://caml.inria.fr/bin/wilma/caml-list
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<mflux> hmh.. ocaml bytecode binaries and native binaries do compress a lot, from 237k to 53k and 700k to 227k, respectively
<mellum> well, there's lots of redundancy, allocacting from minor heap, setting up closures...
<mellum> lots of that is inlined.
<mflux> lot's of zeroes too, if you take a look at the binary ;)
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<slashvar[lri]> Yop
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<ita> morning
<slashvar[lri]> morning ita
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<mellum> does for i = a to b do evaluate b only once?
<ita> good question ..
<mellum> Apparently yes.
<ita> could be a great obfuscation trick if it wasn't :)n
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<mellum> Why the #@%$@* does Queue.push have the queue as second parameter??
<sproctor> maybe because you take a thing and push it onto a queue?
<sproctor> or because the thing being pushed is more important than the queue? (I'm reaching)
<mellum> Usually, modules which handle an abstract data type always take this type as first parameter...
<mellum> This also makes a lot more sense for currying.
<sproctor> yeah, I agree.
<jason> Object enforce the order of the item being operated on that is passed to always be first.
<jason> Ahem, Objects.
<Smerdy> Which, by itself, is not useful.
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<jason> How isn't it useful?
<jason> The more regular things are the better, in my humble opinion.
<Smerdyakov> You can just write functions that take particular things first.
<jason> Right, but it isn't an enforced procedure.
<Smerdyakov> It's not always clear what "the item being operated on" means in a particular context.
<jason> And you have to directly reffer to the item passed by its name rather than a consistent alias.
<jason> This is only a convenience feature.
<jason> And, I believe a good one.
<Smerdyakov> That is far from being a large part of what the OO features facilitate.
<jason> When things are grouped together apropriately, it usually does, actually.
<jason> And your point is?
<jason> I never said that is what makes an Object an Object.
<jason> I said it's a useful feature.
<Smerdyakov> My point is that this reason alone does not justify any use of objects.
<jason> Why not?
<jason> Modules should have the same feature.
<Smerdyakov> Because objects carry far more baggage with them
<jason> Far more?
<Smerdyakov> If you're not using dynamic dispatch, you shouldn't be using objects.
<jason> Right, the extra overhead is dynamic dispatch, without it, I really can't see this extra "baggage".
<Smerdyakov> You can't avoid this baggage if you use objects. It's _conceptual_ overhead, not always _runtime_ overhead.
<jason> Modules seem a lot more complicated in concept. If you look at other languages Classes tend to be a mix between what Ocaml calls Objects and Modules.
<Smerdyakov> To me, the issue is: how much complexity goes _unused_ in many cases?
<Smerdyakov> This is high with objects and low with modules.
<sproctor> what feature of modules do other languages combine with objects that ocaml does not?
<Smerdyakov> (Also, there is no precedent for capitalized "Objects" and "Modules" having any particular special meaning for OCaml.)
<jason> One moment, I'm busy for a couple of minutes :)
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