irc.freenode.net changed the topic of #ocaml to: OCaml 3.08 "Bastille Day" Release available ! -- Archive of Caml Weekly News: http://pauillac.inria.fr/~aschmitt/cwn , A tutorial: http://merjis.com/richj/computers/ocaml/tutorial/ , A free book: http://cristal.inria.fr/~remy/cours/appsem, Mailing List (best ml ever for any computer language): http://caml.inria.fr/bin/wilma/caml-list
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<sic-> if you need the equivalent of uint32_t, you have to use a 64 bit int in ocaml
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<Codename_V> howdy
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<grirgz> hi
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<grirgz> how can i make a directory while keeping my program portable ?
<mflux> sounds like a good question
<mflux> I wonder if the windows version has the Unix-module
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<grirgz> mflux: :,(
<grirgz> the REAMDE.Win32 said that the unix module is suported partially, i guess mkdir is implemented
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<mflux> is List.length constant time?
<mflux> hmh, I suppose it is, otherwise it should be mentioned in the documentation (although I wouldn't mind if the documentation confirmed this)
<Riastradh> No, it can't reasonably be constant-time.
<mflux> ok ;)
<mflux> infact the documentation hardly mentions about how long the operations take
<mflux> but I can't see why length couldn't bee constant time if all insertion (and list concatenation) would be O(n)
<Riastradh> How do you expect to traverse a list in constant time?
<mflux> I wouldn't expect it to traverse it
<Riastradh> Then how do you find the lenght?
<mflux> but to keep the number of elements and update it on insert/delete etc
<Riastradh> Length, even.
<mflux> the interface for handling lists doesn't seem to make that too difficult
<Riastradh> Lists are not desgned like that. They are simply pairs of the element and the rest of the list.
<mflux> saying that much would be nice in the list module documentation
<mflux> but I suppose this is the wrong place to complain about that?-)
<Riastradh> Most functional programmers are quite familiar with lists already.
<Smerdyakov> mflux, since we want lists to be functional, what you suggested is incompatible with constant time insertions.
<Smerdyakov> Or maybe not.
<Smerdyakov> But it would waste time in the vast majority of cases.
<mflux> in any case, that language A doesn't keep track of element counts doesn't mean language B wouldn't. and documenting that is all one needs ;)
<mflux> but, it does lead to the that checking list for emptiness is better made with match than with length
<Smerdyakov> Yeah. Like Riastradh said, though, that would be like documenting the semantics of function calls in detail.
<mflux> or actually maybe <>, hm
<Smerdyakov> Like functions, lists without lengths stored are the standard among most all functional languages.
<mflux> is documenting the time function is expected to take in O-accuracy really that detailed?
<Riastradh> I can't think of one that doesn't.
<Riastradh> And I'm even including languages that aren't mainly functional, like Mercury, Prolog, and Oz.
<mflux> and it may very well be crucial when you implement an algorithm
<Smerdyakov> mflux, is documenting the time expected to add two integers really that detailed?
<mflux> adding two integers has constant number of input and output arguments
<mflux> how about flatten?
<Riastradh> mflux, that makes no sense.
<mflux> well, I suppose it's O(number_of_lists_to_flatten)
<mflux> instead of O(number_of_elements_in_the_lists)
<mflux> riastradh, what doesn't make sense? that (+) implemented in any realistic way would be constant time?
<Smerdyakov> mflux, but do you expect OCaml to document that integer addition is constant time, just because it's "not that detailed"?
<Riastradh> No, your phrasing made no sense.
<mflux> smerdyakov, no, I don't
<Smerdyakov> mflux, OK. In functional programming, lists are more common operands than integers.
<Smerdyakov> mflux, if anything, addition is the more exotic operation that needs more detail.
<mflux> well, maybe this comes from the background of c++, in which STL has for every data structure and algorithm the time consumption documented
<Smerdyakov> Yes, it does.
<Smerdyakov> This is so obvious as to be silly to mention, for functional programmers.
<Smerdyakov> I might also add that the documentation _does_ uniquely determine the time of the length operation.
<Smerdyakov> Since lists are not a privileged built-in structure, but are defined like any other variant type.
<mflux> hmm.. where would that be?
<mflux> that doesn't seem to be valid ocaml? but it does heavily suggest actual one-way linked list without counter -kind-of data structure ;)
<Smerdyakov> I don't think anyone would have an excuse for not understanding what it means.
<Smerdyakov> Just replace [] with a name like Nil and it's valid.
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