ayrnieu changed the topic of #ocaml to: OCaml 3.08.4 available! Archive of Caml Weekly News: http://sardes.inrialpes.fr/~aschmitt/cwn/ | A free book: http://cristal.inria.fr/~remy/cours/appsem/ | Mailing List: http://caml.inria.fr/bin/wilma/caml-list/ | Cookbook: http://pleac.sourceforge.net/
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<meren> yes, yes you can do that with ocaml dude.. ok. i can't help anymore, sorry..
<meren> oo hi caglar10ur..
<meren> and barismetin
<barismetin> meren: hi
<caglar10ur> i hate ml
<barismetin> caglar10ur: its probably becouse of your experiences in childhood.
<barismetin> :)
<caglar10ur> i really hate ml, so is there any _good_ reason to learn ocaml?
<caglar10ur> barismetin: i hate my childhood
<meren> i hate your childhood too caglar10ur, so don't worry about that..
<barismetin> caglar10ur: how pessimist you are.
<barismetin> better go to a psychologist.
<caglar10ur> meren: i hate you
<caglar10ur> barismetin: i did, nobody helped
<barismetin> caglar10ur: ocaml can.
<barismetin> but you should be openminded
<meren> yes, we can not help you here dude.. we all love ocaml here and doing some great stuff with that..
<caglar10ur> meren: like what? the only thing i know is ml-donkey
<meren> e.g. i wrote ocaml port of the great ed
<barismetin> caglar10ur: start with a "let rec" and go back to your childhood.
<meren> the editor, ed.
<caglar10ur> barismetin: i hate recursion
<barismetin> caglar10ur: recursion is the key for happiness
<meren> recursion is the only thing which can help you about your childhood caglar10ur..
<caglar10ur> meren: i hate recursion names like gnu, php and etc.
<barismetin> I felt much more better when I found that recursion thing.
<barismetin> so you should like recursion (and ocaml) if you want to be happy.
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<ngaylinn> I have an ocamldebug problem.
<ngaylinn> consider the following program:
<ngaylinn> let foo x = x - 1;;
<ngaylinn> let bar x = x + 1;;
<ngaylinn> foo (bar 5);;
<ngaylinn> This program has 4 event points. One at the entrance to the two functions, one after (bar 5) returns and one for when (foo (bar 5)) returns.
<ngaylinn> However, both of these events have the same character offset in my program. When listed by info events, the only difference between them is their address.
<ngaylinn> Is there any way at all to know which event corresponds to which expression without using trial and error?
<ngaylinn> (I'm writing an IDE, so this is a very important question)
<ngaylinn> (both of these events = the two events that occur after a function invocation. Sorry for any confusion)
<Schmurtz> what dis you mean by "event point" ?
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<Schmurtz> I've found, with trying "info events"
<Schmurtz> However I don't really understood your problem ngaylinn
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<ngaylinn> schmurtz: There are events throughout the program at which you can set breakpoints. That's what I meant.
<ngaylinn> Schmurtz: And just doing info events will tell you that there are two events with the same offset at two different addresses, but it won't tell you which is which.
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<ngaylinn> Is anyone here very experienced with using ocamldebug?
<Amorphous> Saulzar: some days ago you wrote "I've noticed something about using mutable values... eg. as soon as I use a Hashtbl in a data structure then everything from there on down is 'infected' with being mutable" i'm interested in an example for that, if that wouldn't bother you, could you point me to one, please?
<Schmurtz> ngaylinn, ocamldebug says :
<Saulzar> Ah, well... if I ever use a Hashtbl (something with mutable elements) it means that that data structure is going to end up being mutable too
<Schmurtz> Module : Bug
<Schmurtz> Address Character Kind Repr.
<Schmurtz> 6180 12 before/fun
<Schmurtz> 6160 32 before/fun
<Schmurtz> 6252 51 after/ret
<Schmurtz> 6244 51 after/ret
<Schmurtz> and when it stops : "Time : 15 - pc : 6252 - module Bug"
<Schmurtz> I don't understand why do you need to convert character offset to code adress
<ngaylinn> Schmurtz: Yes, that's all well and good. My problem, though, is how can I tell (without actually running the program) whether the event at 6252 is the event after the call to foo or the event after the call to bar?
<Saulzar> So if you wish to have some structure used in a functional way... then you really can't add any mutable element at all or the whole structure ends up mutable
<Schmurtz> do you really need that ? (the event after the call to foo or the event after the call to bar)
<ngaylinn> schmurtz: Yes. I need to know which event is which. I'm trying to write a graphical debugger.
<Saulzar> At least it feels kind of iffy to me to try and use mutable structures with immutable structures
<Schmurtz> you may just highlight the line for the current pc
<ngaylinn> schmurtz: I want to do more. I want the user to be able to know where the new breakpoint is actually going. ;)
<ngaylinn> schmurtz: It makes a very big difference which return just took place.
<Schmurtz> ok, has you want
<Schmurtz> but I cannot help you
<ngaylinn> schmurtz: Thanks.
<Schmurtz> start with a simplest solution, even if it's not very good ;)
<ngaylinn> schmurtz: The simplest solution is to just use the debugger in a console window. I want something that is easy to learn and use for someone with no ocaml experience.
<Schmurtz> "simpler", sorry
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<ngaylinn> schmurtz: I have what you've described already, and it's very confusing. You have to spend a lot of time working with the debugger before you can make heads or tails of what you're working with.
<Schmurtz> a graphical debugger, is a godd thing
<Schmurtz> is your IDE already available ?
<ngaylinn> schmurtz: It's in progress. It's almost done, but still in a state of partial disarray, so, no, it's not available.
<Schmurtz> so, I have to wait...
<ngaylinn> schmurtz: Sorry! Not that long, though. I hope to have SOMETHING out in a few weeks. It probably will lack full support for breakpoints, though, because of this and similar problems.
<Schmurtz> I'm interesting, because I'm writting a ocaml plugin for Xcode (Apple's IDE for Mac OS X)
<ngaylinn> schmurtz: Cool. My program hypothetically will work under OS X, but I have no experience with the OS.
<Schmurtz> (interested)
<Schmurtz> which library do you use for the GUI ?
<Schmurtz> Gtk ?
<ngaylinn> qt
<Schmurtz> it's better
<ngaylinn> gtk is?
<Schmurtz> Gtk is hard to install on Mac OS X
<ngaylinn> oh, good.
<ngaylinn> I've already had people successfully use my program on OSX using qt.
<Schmurtz> Gtk is a framework from the Gimp project
<ngaylinn> I know.
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<Schmurtz> (was because of "gtk is?")
<ngaylinn> (Oh, I'm sorry. I meant, "gtk is better?")
<Schmurtz> :)
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<Amorphous> Saulzar: thx
<Amorphous> ngaylinn: is it written in ocaml itself?
<ngaylinn> amorphous: No. I would have liked to, but considering my experience and time constraints I wrote it in C++
<Amorphous> *sigh* there seems to be no qt binding...
<Amorphous> for ocaml
<ngaylinn> I thought there was, actually...
<Amorphous> s/no/no usable/
<ngaylinn> ah.
<ngaylinn> gotcha.
<ngaylinn> I've never tried it myself...
<Amorphous> ngaylinn: i only found https://savannah.nongnu.org/projects/kamel/ an that seems to be inactive
<ngaylinn> amorphous: I think there's something else... though I forget the name.
<Schmurtz> qt is C++
<Schmurtz> so a caml binding is not easy to write
<Schmurtz> hum... I may be totaly wrong
<ngaylinn> No, Qt is C++ based. And OCaml has some C underneath it, I believe... though most of it is bootstrapped.
<Schmurtz> you're wright
<Schmurtz> -w
<Amorphous> in addition to it being c++, qt has slots and "whatever the other corresponding thing was called". so i guess it is realy not straight forward. (it also heavily uses c++ templates. no idea if that allways maps cleanly to another coding principle in ocaml)
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<haakonn> Amorphous: signals/slots :)
<Amorphous> yea :)
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<ax> does the ocaml interpereter have inline help?
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<avlondono> hi, anyone here uses OCamlMakefile?
<avlondono> in particular, anyone uses subprojects?
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<Schmurtz> ax, it doesn't
<Schmurtz> however the doc on inria's web site is easy to use
<ax> that's cool
<ax> is there a way in the interpereter to display the arguments that a Constructor takes?
* ax is VERY new to ocaml
<shrimpx> i dunno
<shrimpx> the ocaml top level is not uber helpful :\
<ax> oh well
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<ax> has anyone made a ocamlbrowser tool that works from within vim?
<shrimpx> SML will tell you the type if you input the constructor name
<shrimpx> also because SML allows partially applied constructors :)
<Schmurtz> "display the arguments that a Constructor takes " ax, you can't
<Schmurtz> the interpreter is just an interpreter
<ax> ok
<Schmurtz> shrimpx, so in SML a constructor is a function like every other functions ?
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<shrimpx> shrimpx: yea
<shrimpx> er Schmurtz :)
<Schmurtz> ;)
<shrimpx> albeit it's constrained to be 1-ary
<shrimpx> Foo (x,y,z) is like a function application of the constructor Foo to the tuple
<shrimpx> can't have n-ary constructors
<Schmurtz> ok
<Schmurtz> same as caml
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<ax> what is backtick used for?
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