flux changed the topic of #ocaml to: Discussions about the OCaml programming language | http://caml.inria.fr/ | 3.11.0 out now! Get yours from http://caml.inria.fr/ocaml/release.html
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<plx-> caligula: enjoy the ghost
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<alexyk> how do you tell ocamlc to use an .mli when compiling the .ml for it?
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<alexyk> huh -- do you really have to duplicate all of .mli in the .ml???
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<thelema> alexyk: yes, the .ml is sufficient, and the .mli is an independent interface, not defining any parts of the .ml that are private.
<thelema> s/sufficient/stand-alone/
<alexyk> thelema: do I really have to duplicate the .mli in the .ml?
<alexyk> if I want to create module signatures and make module conform?
<thelema> yes - it's not like C, where the .h gets included in the .c
<alexyk> and there's no include syntax?
<thelema> it's that the .ml is the program, and the .mli lists the parts of the program (with their signature) that are public
<thelema> there's ways to pre-process, but noone does that. It's straightforward to just duplicate.
<alexyk> that's very annoying :( I have to edit .mli and .ml in two places
<alexyk> or defer creatng .mli to the end
<thelema> I agree - it's one place I'd like to improve ocaml.
<thelema> you don't need an .mli file, so leave it alone until you're ready for others to use your code.
<alexyk> but I saw include syntax I thought? can one include files in .ml?
<thelema> *then* hide the parts that don't need hidden.
<thelema> Probably the best way to solve the problem is some extra keywords in the .ml file that get pre-processed to empty strings in regular compilation, but allow ocamlc -i to only output some signatures
<thelema> (you do know about ocamlc -i, no?)
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<alexyk> thelema: interesting...
<thelema> this takes care of most people's problems with .mli files
<thelema> they're still far from perfect, but...
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<itewsh> hello
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<Yoric[DT]> hi
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<Yoric[DT]> What's the usual way of getting rid of "Cannot grow buffer"?
<Yoric[DT]> Is there a ulimit to change?
<mrvn> are you trying to grow beyond 16MB?
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<Yoric[DT]> Possibly.
<Yoric[DT]> It's OCamlDoc, so it's hard to say.
<mrvn> On 32bit cpus strings are limited to 16MB and the buffer module I believe uses strings.
<mrvn> Not enough bits for the length field in the tag.
<Yoric[DT]> :/
<Yoric[DT]> Unfortunately, I don't know exactly where that exception is raised.
<Yoric[DT]> OCAMLRUNPARAMS="b" doesn't work with ocamldoc, afaik
<mrvn> I hate that exceptions don't have a backtrace
<Yoric[DT]> Yeah.
<flux> yoric[dt], hm, does it require compiling with -g? in that case, you could recompile it?
<Yoric[DT]> Well, that would require recompiling my ocaml distribution, I believe.
<flux> really? backtraces have worked in my applications, why would ocamldoc be different?
<Yoric[DT]> Well, you need to compile your application with -g for backtraces to work.
<Yoric[DT]> Since ocamldoc is not compiled with this flag, it doesn't work out-of-the-box.
<Yoric[DT]> Mmmhhh...
<flux> right, by ocaml distribution you just referred to ocaml compiler?
<Yoric[DT]> Well, ocamldoc is provided with the ocaml compiler.
<flux> yes, but what you suggested sounded like you would need to compile everything ocaml-dependant, but that was my fault :)
<Yoric[DT]> :)
<thelema> Yoric[DT]: can we have batteries auto-include .mli files into the corresponding .ml?
<flux> hopefully the airduster can helped my laptop's fan
<flux> atleast it doesn't make a horrible noise - yet
<flux> naah, some video running and the noise begins again..
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<Camarade_Tux> flux, screwdriver first ?
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<flux> sure, I opened it first as much as I easily figured to do :)
<flux> but I don't see how to fix that fan, even if I opened it.. I didn't get to see the fan's other side, though, so if it has an opening (covered by a tape possibly), it could be possible to add some oil..
<Camarade_Tux> my laptop is getting noiser too, I don't know how much I'll be able to clean it =/
<mrvn> if you open it be prepared to end up with a few extra screws.
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<flux> I ended up with one extra non-screwed screw hole, and no extra screws..
<gildor> where is the last screw
<gildor> ... your fan make noise ?
<flux> well it does appear to make now a little bit less noise, but it might be just because it cooled in the process
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<gildor> Maybe you should tell cpufreqd to keep your laptop processor at low frequency
<gildor> (even if not on battery power)
<gildor> this will prevent your computer to heat too much
<gildor> (but slowdown everything)
<Camarade_Tux> once I ended up with no extra nor missing screws, I was particularly happy :)
<Camarade_Tux> (but maybe that two were extra and two others were missing ;p )
<flux> gildor, not a bad idea indeed, I don't miss the speed
<flux> although I guess it will still heat up, if it is doing anything else but idling
<blizz2> hi i'm trying to make a 2D game in ocaml ( a simple shoot em up) , and i have some problem implementing my data structure ( a scene graph + spatial partioning) because i don't understand how i can do it the functional way. could you give me some hint on how i should implement those data structure please?
<gildor> put your whole laptop in "battery mode"
<gildor> this will slowdown HD + backlight + processor
<gildor> it will heat a lot less
<gildor> if you still have problem i recommend you to buy
<gildor> (sorry for advertising)
<mrvn> blizz2: look at examples for other trees.
<mrvn> blizz2: although maybe you may want to make the partitioning procedural and use mutables.
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<blizz2> hmm ok and for my scene graph, i need to to make a new scene each time i process it , even if few changes have been made?
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<mrvn> Only the nodes you change and their parents.
<flux> personally, if I had a graph to maintain in ocaml, I would just go with mutability :)
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<flux> trees and ids can work too, of course
<flux> and occasionally I use those if I especially want to remain in the functional realm
<mrvn> or both. A lot of the time things move only a little bit and stay in the same place in the tree.
<blizz2> But i'm modifying my precedent scene graph? this is the point where i have a problem with functional prograimming, i have the impression that you must produce an all new structure each time you want to change something :/
<mrvn> So make the leaf mutable and the nodes functional.
<blizz2> mrvn : yes
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<flux> blizz2, when you modify trees, you only need to copy the spine, the leafs can just refer to the old leafs
<flux> and as allocation and copying pointers is very fast, it's not particularly slower than any other tree operations
<blizz2> ok
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<blizz2> so i can just put my leaf in my spatial partionning structure and have pointer between all my node?
<mrvn> blizz2: you always have pointers. everything that isn't a trivial type is a pointer.
<mrvn> blizz2: anything that doesn't fit in a word.
<blizz2> oh, everythin point to data , but isn't really data?
<mrvn> blizz2: (1, 2, 3) is a pointer
<blizz2> pointer to the value "(1,2,3)"? ? so you mean that i'm never manipulating data in ocaml?
<mrvn> blizz2: To a Block of memory of size 4 words. First word saying it is a tripplet and then ints 1, 2 and 3.
<mrvn> blizz2: let a = (1, 2, 3) in let b = a in ... will just copy the pointer.
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<det> Anyone use ocamlnet on win32 ?
<det> mingw32, specifically
<Camarade_Tux> det, are you having problems with it ?
<det> fails in connect()
<det> errno 37
<gildor> det: which version of ocaml
<det> 3.10
<det> godi installed
<gildor> are you trying to use IPV6 address ?
<det> probably ocamlnet bug
<det> I'll try that patch
<det> EWOULDBLOCK is indeed errno 37
<det> looks like the problem
* Yoric[DT] is still fighting to get a -g version of ocamldoc to run.
<Yoric[DT]> Okay, that should be working now.
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<robocop> hello.
<robocop> what's the name of the file cma of the module lexing ?
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<Smerdyakov> I'm pretty sure it's in the standard library.
<Smerdyakov> (Always linked)
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<robocop> ha, yes, you right.
<robocop> thanks.
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<robocop> how I can compile file .ml genered by ocamlex ?
<robocop> *generate
<mrvn> same like any other ml. man ocamlc, man ocamlopt
<robocop> I've got always the error "Unbound constructor Lsymbol"
<mrvn> robocop: have you read the docs and followed the example?
<robocop> sorry, i'm stupid.
<robocop> i forgot to declar a type.
<Camarade_Tux> that's the problem with type inference, you sometimes want it to do a bit too much ;)
<mrvn> sometimes you get errors a few function calls away from the real place and by that time the type has be infered to hell.
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<mrvn> Someone tell me if this is sane: I have an abstract 'type res = Result of result | Exception of exn' in my module and 'let result = function Result x -> x | Exception e -> raise e' to access the abstract res. The res is passed from my module as arguments to callbacks it was given. The goal is to throw the exception inside the callback when they access the result.
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<Yoric[DT]> Well, that looks correct.
<mrvn> Or would it be better to have that type not abstract so people can match themself or maybe 2 callbacks, one for normal and one for error?
<Yoric[DT]> I'd go for the concrete type.
<Yoric[DT]> Possibly as a polymorphic variant [> `Exception of exn ]
<flux> what's the runtime cost of polymorphic variants vs regular variants, btw?
<mrvn> The result is either a Buffer or a Unix error. No need to go polymorphic.
<mrvn> flux: I think none. They are hased instead of numerated from 0.
<flux> right, now I remember that the hashing was implemented during compile time
<flux> except perhaps with C extensions, which will likely (but they don't have to?) do hashing at runtime
<Camarade_Tux> afair polymorphic variants have a higher runtime cost compared to regular variants
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<mrvn> The variant value `VConstr is represented by hash_variant("VConstr"). The variant value `VConstr(v) is represented by a block of size 2 and tag 0, with field number 0 containing hash_variant("VConstr") and field number 1 containing v.
<mrvn> Unlike constructed values, variant values taking several arguments are not flattened. That is, `VConstr(v, v') is represented by a block of size 2, whose field number 1 contains the representation of the pair (v, v'), rather than a block of size 3 containing v and v' in fields 1 and 2.
<mrvn> I hope the hash_variant("VConstr") is done at compiletime. But `VConstr(v, v') would indeed be more expensive.
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<det> I have a C extension that uses polymorphic variants
<det> I do the hashing in an init call, that must be called before the module is used.
<mrvn> so the cost is the difference between writing a literal and copying a value.
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<mohbana> does ocaml allow subtyping of functions, if that makes sense what so ever
<mohbana> as in
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<mohbana> (S' -> T') <: (S -> T), if S' <: S and T' <: T
<Smerdyakov> Yes.
<IWannaLog> but the type are not good its (s' -> t') <: (s -> t), if s <: s' and t' <: t
<Smerdyakov> (Just try it and see. All casts must be explicit.)
<mohbana> yes that's what i meant
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