flux changed the topic of #ocaml to: Discussions about the OCaml programming language | http://caml.inria.fr/ | 3.11.0 out now! Get yours from http://caml.inria.fr/ocaml/release.html
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<kig> |: pcre doesn't do on null bytes
<kig> -on
<kig> slp ->
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<tar_> Can anyone see why my %prec tags don't help with the shift/reduce conflict here? I *think* it can't decide whether -a(b) is (-a)(b) or -(a(b)).
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<tar_> That's the smallest I could make my grammar and still exhibit the conflict.
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<flux> sorry, not all that familiar with yacc, but perhaps you can try out menhir, which claims to have more understandable error messages
<flux> iirc it produced examples in that kind of situations
<flux> (menhir is a dron-in-replacement for ocamlyacc with certain nice extensions)
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<tar_> hm, hadn't heard of menhir
<tar_> "understandable by mere humans" nice
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<tar_> well, helpful enough that now I'm sure I know what the problem is.. doesn't teach me how to write a better grammar though :D
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<tar_> My %precs are "never useful"
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<bluestorm> thelema: have you eventually decided something on the Infix question ?
<bluestorm> i just pushed the /@ / @/ compilation fix
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<thelema> blue_prawn: great.
<thelema> grr...
<thelema> bluestorm: ^^
<thelema> I haven't done the infix fix. I think it
<thelema> 'll probably suffice to move those functions into extPervasives.Infix
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<bluestorm> thelema: so extPervasives.Infix instead of Enum.Infix ?
<thelema> well, since there's only infix for Enum, extPervasives.Infix == Enum.Infix
<thelema> hmm, why is there extPervasives? I don't see any reason to segregate extlib's contribution to pervasives from the rest...
<bluestorm> we may have some non-Enum infix operators in the future
<thelema> we already do: :>
<thelema> err, |>
<bluestorm> |> was replaced by **> iirc
<thelema> hmm, it doesn't look like DT fixed **>
<bluestorm> ah
<flux> ..you guys have the strangest smileys..
<thelema> <**, **>, |-, -|, ***, &&&
<bluestorm> iirc there was a strong opposition to |- -|, maybe we could choose another operator
<bluestorm> what's the F# choice again ?
<thelema> we're using |- f g x = g(f x)
<thelema> blue_prawn: f# uses |> (and I think <|)
<bluestorm> for composition ?
<bluestorm> we could use that too
<bluestorm> it was used for application but we have **> now
<bluestorm> hm
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<blue_prawn> thelema: ?
<thelema> I thought I had a nice discussion with DT about reverting the **> change
<thelema> I guess he might have thought to do it after we merge pa-do
<bluestorm> blue_prawn: that was just an autocompletion mistake
<bluestorm> sorry
<blue_prawn> ha yes I see
<bluestorm> thelema: actually
<bluestorm> i have the intuition that **> associativity is still wrong
<thelema> blue_prawn: you're welcome to join the conversation. We're trying to decide how operators should work
<bluestorm> it works if you write eg. print_newline **> print_string **> "Hello World !";;
<thelema> bluestorm: I don't think we should avoid defining operators any more than we should avoid defining other symbols with nice names.
<blue_prawn> which kind of operators ?
<bluestorm> blue_prawn: those are composition/application operators
<bluestorm> thelema: except operators are useless unless they're opened in the global namespace
<blue_prawn> somthing like in C++ cout << "hello" << 45 << endl N
<bluestorm> possibly
<bluestorm> it's more like $ in Haskell if you know about it
<blue_prawn> i have planed to learn haskell, but only looked at a quick tutorial yet
<thelema> oh yeah, we're confining the operators so users can open just them without importing all the symbols. Now I'm back on track.
<blue_prawn> I have seen some examples on rosettacode where haskell composites a lot of things with $
<blue_prawn> but it ends by looking very Perlish
<bluestorm> wich one do you expect to "be in the right direction" : "Hello world" ?> print_string ?> print_newline or "Hello World" <? print_string <? print_newline ?
<thelema> extPervasives shouldn't have Infix, but other modules wanting infix symbols should. (to allow partial importing of symbols)
<blue_prawn> print_things <? "value is:" <? 34 <? endl ;;
<blue_prawn> this is the more instinctive
<bluestorm> so the arrow from the parameter to the function
<thelema> yes, input -> function
<blue_prawn> no it could also be
<bluestorm> so **> is wrong actually
<blue_prawn> print_things ?> "value is:" ?> 34 ?> endl;
<blue_prawn> it's more the order of the elements
<bluestorm> the right-application should be left-associative
<thelema> bluestorm: yes, and vice versa
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<thelema> data |> map |> filter |> unzip |> etc.
<blue_prawn> things in ocaml are not always purely from the theory, (in order to be more instinctive)
<thelema> or unzip <| filter <| map <| data
<bluestorm> hm
<blue_prawn> I prefer the first one, it is like in bash
<bluestorm> and i guess you'll get mad if i suggest using ^< , @< or **< :-'
<blue_prawn> cat data | bunzib2 | lzma --best | data.lzma
<bluestorm> @< looks like a fish
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<blue_prawn> in occidental language, we are used to read from left to right
<bluestorm> blue_prawn: both directions have their advantages
<bluestorm> and i think there is a consensus on allowing both anyway
<bluestorm> the question is : wich operators ?
<blue_prawn> bluestorm: yes r2l have the advantages for arabics, jews, etc...
<bluestorm> bof <| and |> can be read left to right
<bluestorm> -f+th
<blue_prawn> l2r would be best with |>
<blue_prawn> like an arrow
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<thelema> for me, the point of |> is to reverse the order of my "sentence", while the use of <| seems to be to avoid ()
<thelema> some instructions (to the computer) are [subject verb verb verb], while others are [command object object]
<thelema> for example, the list |> filter |> map example is the first category
<thelema> while [print 42 "bottles of beer on the wall" endl] is the second
<thelema> OO tends to be the first style [list.filter(isOdd).map(*2+1)]
<thelema> functional tends to be the second (which is why lisp often has so many parens)
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<zerny> Hi. I am a bit confused wrt. cmxa archives and signatures. I have made a simple archive with ocamlopt -a and then tried to link it with another file to a binary. This gives me an error that the module does not exist. Adding a -I to the location of the cmi files corrects this, but should it not be possible to simple link to the archive (.cmxa) file only?
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<flux> zerny, you need to have the .cmi-files around
<zerny> I hoped that I could some how get around that :(
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<zerny> the problem I have is that CMake does not tell me where they are, only where the final archive is placed :(
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<zerny> flux: Thanks for your help. It looks like I'll need some hack to deal with cmake.
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<Yoric[DT]> Has anyone around here used Camomile's CharEncoding?
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* Yoric[DT] doesn't understand why his output stream is empty.
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<thelema> Yoric[DT]: what are you doing?
<Yoric[DT]> Transcoding.
<thelema> code?
<Yoric[DT]> I must be missing something, because I can't get any data from my transcoded inputs/data written to my transcoded outputs seems useless.
<Yoric[DT]> Well, anyway, I'll probably stop for the night.
<thelema> can you checkin your branch, and I'll take a look at it?
<Yoric[DT]> Ok, I'll do that, thanks.
* Yoric[DT] wonders if it could be a problem with the IOClasses of Extlib.
<Yoric[DT]> The example is in examples/conv.ml .
<Yoric[DT]> The source for CharEncodings is in extlib/charEncodings.ml[i].
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<thelema> I'll look there
<Yoric[DT]> Thanks.
<thelema> I've got some fixes for extnetdate - it never made it into libs.mlpack
<thelema> or at least that change didn't get committed. ([git diff] often)
<thelema> n/m, your commit is pushed now.
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<thelema> pa_comprehension not installing properly...
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<Yoric[DT]> thelema: you need to re ./configure
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<Yoric[DT]> Well, goodnight.
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