gildor changed the topic of #ocaml to: Discussions about the OCaml programming language | http://caml.inria.fr/ | Inscription for OCaml Meeting 2010 is opened http://wiki.cocan.org/events/europe/ocamlmeetingparis2010
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<mbac_> is there some idiom for unifying separate sum types
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<mfp> mbac_: use polymorphic variant types? ([`A] and [`B] are subtypes of [>`A | `B]...)
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<mbac_> blah
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<mbac_> i guess i could just say type t = At of A | Bt of B
<mbac_> which is sort of horrible
<mbac_> but possible!
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<julm> you mean: of [`A]
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<alexyk> are there driver for any NoSQL databases? Tried to find one for Mongo, didn't find any.
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<Tomsik> hi
<Tomsik> I've got this http://pastebin.ca/1753585
<Tomsik> and the error I get is Error: The record field label stick belongs to the type lpoint
<Tomsik> but is mixed here with labels of type ldirectional
<Tomsik> at line | LDirectional {stick = true} -> h
<Camarade_Tux> Tomsik: you can't use the same name in different record types, it messes up type inference
<mrvn> record labels shadow other record labels
<Tomsik> Ah darn
<Tomsik> That's kinda sad
<Tomsik> What's the way around this, besides changing label names?
<Camarade_Tux> you can prefix the names or define the records in modules (or use objects but I wouldn't recommend it if your only motivation is names)
<mrvn> In this case I would define a type kind = Directional | Point and type light = { kind : kind; position: Vector.t; diffuse: Vector.t; ambient: Vector.t; specular: Vector.t; shiny: float; shadows: bool; stick: bool}
<Tomsik> Sounds reasonable
<Camarade_Tux> considering the types, mrvn's approach is much better (sorry, hadn't really looked at the code)
<mrvn> Or type kind = Ambient | Point of Vector.t | Global of vector.t | Directed of Vector.t * Vector.t
<mrvn> Tomsik: I would further suggest defining different types for position and color vectors.
<quelqun_dautre> &w 18
<Tomsik> hmm, right now I want that to compile
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<thelema> caml-list now notified of batteries 1.0.0
<thelema> (poorly)
<Camarade_Tux> nice :-)
<Camarade_Tux> [1] Like the small batteries used in TV remote controls <- there's no [1] in the mail body ;-)
<thelema> as I said, poorly.
<Camarade_Tux> thelema: how big is a battery hello world now?
<thelema> ah, I dropped the AAA bit. Wow, that'll make zero sense.
<thelema> executable?
<Camarade_Tux> yeah, you mentionned smaller executable; I was aware of that but I don't have any figure
<thelema> gimme a sec to compile
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<mfp> Camarade_Tux: depends on which modules you use; if you have open Batteries, it's 3.2Mb here
<mfp> with let () = BatPrintf.printf "Hello, world\n", it's down to 750 KB
<mfp> and some 9 KB IIRC if you use dynamic linking (ld_ocaml)
<thelema> 750KB for [ open BatInnerIO let _ = nwrite stdout "Hello World\n" ]
<thelema> BatIO is much larger than batInnerIO. I have the bad feeling batteries 2.0 will be coming out soon where all the write_* functions in BatIO are removed
<Camarade_Tux> ok, thanks both
<Camarade_Tux> I don't use "open" a lot so I guess it'll be 750KB for me :-)
<thelema> you do have to give up some convenience to get the smaller executable sizes. The [open Batteries] pulls in a ton of stuff into your namespace, but it all gets compiled in.
<thelema> It depends on what you use - once you use BatPervasives, I think that uses BatIO which uses a ton of modules... for no good reason I can see.
<Camarade_Tux> I know, currently I prefer not to use open too much so it doesn't pull to many things in the current namespace and the reduced convenience is usually ok (I "rename" modules, or I only open submodules)
<thelema> Camarade_Tux: ok.
<mfp> open BatPervasives let () = BatPrint.printf p"Hello, %rope\n" r"world" -> 2.2 MB
<Camarade_Tux> and I'm probably going to try to use ld-ocaml now ;-)
<Camarade_Tux> only need to make ocamlbuild output .cmxs files and use packs
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<thelema> mfp: it's almost the same if you open BatIO instead of BatInnerIO
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<thelema> mfp: btw, I renamed the github repo - instead of "AAA-batteries" it's "batteries-included"
<thelema> You'll have to change your .git/config to match
<mfp> yeah, just noticed and changed the git remote
<thelema> ok.
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<mfp> hmm just installed and ocamlfind list shows batteries 0.9.2, forgot to update the version in the META?
<thelema> No, that should be ... hmm, mine shows 0.9.2
<mfp> yup, VERSION = 0.9.2 in OMakefile
<thelema> The version in the META should be auto-generated from the META.in
<thelema> Hmm, I changed that.... except...
<thelema> what's your source
<mfp> I just fetched & merged, it's 0.9.2 in your (thelema/batteries-included) tree
<thelema> in the master branch?
<thelema> hmmm...
<thelema> I probably need to push again
<thelema> yup, I only pushed to ocamlcore, not github
<thelema> fixed now?
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<mfp> yes
<mfp> Camarade_Tux: $ wc -c hello.cmxs 13384 hello.cmxs
<Camarade_Tux> that's really nice, for my browser project, I have several dependencies and different executables with some dependencies in common which make the whole about twice as big as it could be if modules were shared and it's starting to get quite frustrating ;p
<thelema> mfp: very nice.
<mfp> actually 8608 bytes after strip -s
<thelema> debugging and profiling still work?
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<mfp> ld_ocaml is for native code only, so debugging isn't affected
<mfp> as for profiling, I haven't tried it. You'd probably need a separate DLL catalog for the profiling-enabled libs.
<mrvn> only if you want samples from inside the lib
<mfp> you are not going to distribute binaries with profiling enabled anyway, so the exec size doesn't matter
<thelema> fair enough.
<mrvn> Let me know if it is good
<mrvn> ups
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<boscop> would you recommend ocaml for game development?
<mrvn> boscop: why shouldn't one?
<boscop> I heard ocaml has slow floats?
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<mrvn> so don't write quake in it
<boscop> mrvn, and there don't seem to be many game related libraries available
<mrvn> like what?
<boscop> like only chipmunk for physics, no box2d etc
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<boscop> I don't know how it is for networking...
<mrvn> write some bindings then.
<Tomsik> I'm not sure if functional languages are good for games
<Tomsik> I mean, games are based mostly on input
<Tomsik> and it's imperative in its nature
<Tomsik> ocaml has imperative part, but isn't it mainly a functional language?
<mrvn> it has quite a good mixture
<Tomsik> I'm not sure, but I guess it would be interesting to try to write a game in it.
<Tomsik> brb
<mrvn> Board games work well in ocaml I think. And you can use objects for imperative things rather well usualy.
<boscop> the reason I thing about it is, I'm very frustrated with C++, but I need it's speed for my current project
<mrvn> what is it?
<boscop> a fast-paced 2d action shooter with physics and multiplayer
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<Tomsik> AFAIK ocaml is quite fast
<mrvn> except that floats are rather slow because they are always boxed.
<mrvn> better to use 31 bit fixed point math
<Tomsik> I wonder when there'll be CUDA for ocaml :p
<boscop> but libraries probably don't use fixed point
<boscop> if there are any :/
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<boscop> would it be easy to write box2d bindings?
<mrvn> Tomsik: write bindings
<mrvn> boscop: if you know the lib you can usualy write some bindings over the weekend.
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<boscop> will it be as fast as native C++?
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<mrvn> Depends on what you do
<mrvn> c++ can be quite slow too
<boscop> I mean will the box2d code be as fast as the C++ version with those bindings?
<mrvn> calling a C function does cost some time. There is some overhead for the GC and such.
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<Tomsik> boscop: don't worry, either way it won't be as slow as java or python :p
<boscop> what about c#?
<Tomsik> no idea
<mrvn> boscop: sucks
<boscop> mrvn, I have the same feeling
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<mrvn> They have a horrible GC that I would think would ruin your game.
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<boscop> mark-and-sweep?
<mrvn> stop-and-go
<mrvn> stop-the-world GC
<boscop> D has that, too
<boscop> I first started my project in D
<boscop> it's box2d port is slower than java's due to the GC
<mrvn> I guess it largely depends on how you get the data from box2d back to ocaml or from ocaml to box2d
<boscop> what about networking?
<boscop> is there good support for it?
<mrvn> a bunch of libs
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<mrvn> Will ocaml-dl allow multiple ocaml libraries to be loaded into a C binary?
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<mrvn> bah, ocaml code is much nicer
<mrvn> ups
<mrvn> ECHAN
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<c0m> anyone around
<boscop> nope
<c0m> nice
<c0m> NxN matrix with each individual row increasing left to right and each column increasing from top to bottom ....given an O(N) worst-case algorithm that decides if X is in matrix
<c0m> so does that mean if N were 3 .. the matrix would be
<c0m> 1 2 3
<c0m> 2
<c0m> sorry
<c0m> 1 2 3
<c0m> 2 3 4
<c0m> 3 4 5
<c0m> ?
<c0m> someone proposed just going through the entire matrix using nested for loop
<c0m> but that would be an O(n^2)
<c0m> and they are saying it wouldn't be
<boscop> increasing by 1 always?
<mrvn> I'm assuming the values can skip some values.
<boscop> is it sorted?
<boscop> err, forget that
<mrvn> But you will still have some roughly diagonal on which the value would be.
<boscop> do binary search on the upper row
<c0m> well my first question is
<mrvn> So go to the right till you find a value to big, then one down and to the left till you find one to small again and so on
<c0m> they are saying to do nexted for loop checking each one
<c0m> but if you get to the end, that is as if n^2
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<c0m> and they are saying it is not
<Camarade_Tux> aren't all the naturals between 1 and 2*N+1 included in such a matrix?
<mrvn> 1 5
<mrvn> 7 9
<Camarade_Tux> oh wait, I can't read :-)
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<Camarade_Tux> I don't know why I had dreamt the numbers were always increasing by 1 ;-)
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<mrvn> That would be boring
<Camarade_Tux> definitely :P
<boscop> c0m, binary search gives you O(log(n))
<mrvn> boscop: no, still O(n)
<boscop> it's sorted
<mrvn> but you can't binary search the diagonal
<boscop> you can search the upper row
<boscop> that's all you need
<mrvn> boscop: Why should the value be in the upper row?
<boscop> ah no, + the right column
<boscop> so O(log(2n-1))
<mrvn> boscop: why should the value be in the right column?
<boscop> because of the definition of the matrix
<mrvn> 1 5
<mrvn> 7 9
<mrvn> boscop: 7 is neitherin the top nor right column.
<boscop> that's a wrong example
<c0m> well that sounds correct
<boscop> c0m, you have to specify more
<c0m> increasing left to right and top to bottom
<c0m> that's all the prob says
<boscop> ah
<boscop> then of course all
<mrvn> c0m: increasing or strictly increasing?
<mrvn> => or >
<c0m> The input is an NxN matrix of numbers that is already in memory. Each individual row is increasing from left to right. Each inidividual column is increasing from top to bottom. Give an O(N) worst-case algorithm that decides if a number X is in the matrix.
<c0m> that's the exact problem
<mrvn> as said, go right till its too big, then diagonal
<c0m> yes
<c0m> that looks about right
<Camarade_Tux> (and don't forget to be cache friendly if you code it ;-) )
<mrvn> Camarade_Tux: that doesn't play into the O() notation
<Camarade_Tux> yeah, that's why I added "if you code it" ;-)
<boscop> no
<mrvn> c0m: Worst case you go N times right, N times down and N times left.
<boscop> 1 2 4
<boscop> 3 6 7
<boscop> 5 8 9
<boscop> you search for 6
<mrvn> so you search 1 2 4 7 6
<boscop> that's more than N
<c0m> how about this
<boscop> ah, nvm
<mrvn> But not more than O(N)
<c0m> people are telling me that you go through every element
<c0m> it is not n^2
<boscop> yea yea
<c0m> for O()
* c0m sighs
<mrvn> c0m: every element is certainly O(N^2)
<c0m> yup
<c0m> you should see their arguements
<mrvn> Doing binary search in every row would be O(n log n)
<boscop> c0m, where does this problem appear?
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<c0m> textbook
<Tomsik_> well, it's probably O(log^2 n)
<Tomsik_> you can check ends of rows to check if the number might be there
<Tomsik_> and then binary search inside
<mrvn> Tomsik_: worst case it always might be
<Tomsik_> worst case is that every number is the same
<Tomsik_> and you have to write out whole matrix :p
<mrvn> Tomsik_: no. still only O(N)
<Tomsik_> gotta run, see ya
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<boscop> are there bindings for Qt or wxWidgets for OCaml?
<dark> probably
<boscop> most gui libs I found were 8+ years old
<dark> i know of a popular gui program written in wxwidgets
<dark> mldonkey
<dark> you probably should see what it uses
<dark> written in ocaml, but uses wxwidgets to build one of its interfaces
<dark> http://camelia.sourceforge.net seems to use qt.. as of 2008, the author claims to be porting to qt4: http://groups.google.com/group/fa.caml/browse_thread/thread/3577668ca4322396#
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