mfp changed the topic of #ocaml to: Discussions about the OCaml programming language | http://caml.inria.fr/ | OCaml 3.11.2 released | Inscription for OCaml Meeting 2010 is opened http://wiki.cocan.org/events/europe/ocamlmeetingparis2010
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<silas> Hi! I started reading Jason Hickey "Introduction to Objective Caml" book and was wondering what is the advantage to use nested let's (in the "let .. in" form). Allow variables exist only in the scope they are really necessary?
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<orbitz> silas: i don't quite follow
<orbitz> silas: are you asking why you would do: let f x y = let z = x + y in f z z (* for example *)?
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<robthebob> hey all, i'm hoping to write some fairly simple camlp4, but i haven't been able to find any documentation on the new version. where should i be looking?
<f[x]> it doesn't exist. But have a look at http://brion.inria.fr/gallium/index.php/Camlp4
<robthebob> ah yes, so i did find *something* actually
<robthebob> i have had a read through that, but it isn't really as good as the real documentation
<robthebob> do you know if it is being worked on?
<Camarade_Tux> Jake Donham's blog posts might be good too: http://ambassadortothecomputers.blogspot.com/search/label/camlp4 (of course, they are in reverse order ;-) )
<Camarade_Tux> they also mention some links
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<Camarade_Tux> I haven't read them myself (learning camlp* has been on my TODO for ages) but I've heard good things about them
<robthebob> thanks they look good, i'll have a read through
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<silas> orbitz: Yes! sorry for the late answer...
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<silas> orbitz: I still think imperativelly... let a = 5;; let b = 6;; let c = a + b;;
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<Camarade_Tux> silas: these will be global variables which doesn't make them really nice
<thelema> silas: that's ok in ocaml, as long as you don't start trying to "update" your variables
<silas> Camarade_Tux: thelema: I see. So the biggest advantage of using the "let .. in" form is that you have variables only when they are really needed...
<silas> Very nice.
<thelema> ocaml does encourage small scopes = small lifetimes for variables. It makes the GC easier
<Camarade_Tux> I use a few global variables, they're all constant
<Camarade_Tux> variables that you would initialize early and share would be ok too (although not perfect)
<silas> small lifetime variables... nice concept.
<silas> Thanks!
<silas> Camarade_Tux: Yeah, something like let pi = 3.14;; :-)
<avsm> jake's pages are great; you might also want to look at dyntype: github.com/mirage/dyntype, which gives you dynamic introspection of ocaml types and values. it's a pretty basic use of camlp4
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<orbitz> silas: let .. in is kine of like { ... } (it scopes the bindings of yoru variabels
<silas> I understand now.
<silas> orbitz: Very interesting feature. And much more syntatic sugar.
<silas> Thanks!
<silas> (Much more syntatic sugar than {} I mean)
<orbitz> silas: well it's important to remember ocaml doesn't have variables
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<flux> gotta love the ocamlspotter installer.. if it works :)
<mrvn> It's like { type &var = value; ... } in c++
<flux> ./BRAIN_DEAD_INSTALL.sh
<flux> mrvn, or const type &var = value;
<orbitz> yeah what flux said
<mrvn> typeof(value) &var = value
<orbitz> drats i can't remmeber what i was goign to google just now
<mrvn> ever googled google by accident?
<orbitz> dont' you get bing?
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<orbitz> kind of an odd way to frame type inferencing
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<flux> some interactive graph viewer would be nice: modeemi.fi/~flux/sitemapper.svg
<flux> (I'm actually using zgrviewer for that, but it doesn't really help for other than zooming and panning around)
<Camarade_Tux> flux: that's ugly -_-
<flux> :)
<Camarade_Tux> (not the graph but what it represents ;-) )
<flux> it's something I've been writing on my holidasys: it builds a graph of processes and network and unix domain socket connections
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<flux> it can also cover multiple hosts, but I think that feature is broken at the moment :)
<Camarade_Tux> can I try it? ;-)
<Camarade_Tux> (I better not try it tonight though, I should at least _start_ my homework)
<flux> however..
<flux> it requires batteries and janet street core
<Camarade_Tux> both? :o
<flux> janet street core has a Procfs module
<Camarade_Tux> ah, I see
<Camarade_Tux> good to know
<flux> also you would need a script for doing the unix domain socket support
<Camarade_Tux> I bet godi's batteries is too old
<flux> it needs to have ParserCo atleast
<Camarade_Tux> I don't have any unix domain sockets other than for X
<flux> you most likely will have..
<flux> well actually maybe not, you didn't run gnome or anything?
<Camarade_Tux> no ^^
<flux> nor hal?
<flux> nor rsyslogd?
<flux> in any case the script is based on having kernel debug symbols available
<flux> it uses gdb to dig the info out from the kernel :)
<flux> so incase you don't have it, you can just replace the script with #!/bin/sh true
<Camarade_Tux> ah, right, I had forgotten about hal-udev
<flux> (also, gdb 7.1 required)
<Camarade_Tux> I should have them
<flux> (with python support)
<Camarade_Tux> and looks like you've done quite a lot of things here :-)
<Camarade_Tux> gdb 6.8 actually
<Camarade_Tux> well, as I said I better not start doing that tonight but wait for tomorrow
<flux> :)
<flux> of course, to generate actual pictures you will need graphviz
<flux> and to view them more conveniently zgrviewer is decent. better alternatives appreciated!
<Camarade_Tux> crap, we should get rid of the +R flag on the channel
<Camarade_Tux> had never heard of zgrviewer, looks nice, what's the problem with it?
<flux> well, for one, it consumes CPU even when it's doing nothing
<flux> laptop gets quite warm :)
<flux> for another, it doesn't provide capabilities to find node predecessor/successor
<flux> or filtering etc
<flux> finally, it's written in java ;-)
<Camarade_Tux> well, considering what you've done with sitemapper, I think you could write a better viewer ;-)
<flux> I've considered that a opengl(2)-based viewer would be cool..
<Camarade_Tux> 2? go for 4 :P
<flux> something that would continuously re-layout the graph depending on where you are, making it noncluttered
<Camarade_Tux> actually I was wondering if there was a dot equivalent but for 3 dimensions
<flux> I don't think opengl4-bindings for ocaml are available ;(
<Camarade_Tux> write your own bindings? :P
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<flux> no idea, but I think it should potentially allow a lot easier layout
<flux> but in the end it doesn't help, if you want to display it on a 2d display
<Camarade_Tux> (iirc some of the bindings are generated so it should be possible to use the generator)
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<Camarade_Tux> navigation could be pretty nice however
<flux> one other idea I've had about that would be that the graph itself would continuously update
<Camarade_Tux> nice, but could take a lot of CPU
<flux> zgrviewer already takes 100% :P
<flux> ;)
<flux> maybe not
<flux> if you can get the information in some intelligent way
<Camarade_Tux> hahaha :P
<flux> for example via systemtap etc
<flux> btw, the multi-host-system assumes it can log in to another host with ssh hostname and execute ./sitemapper with some args
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<derdon> moin moin :)
<derdon> yeah, it works now
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<Camarade_Tux> \o/
<Camarade_Tux> flux: that's a bit invasive
<flux> camarade_tux, how else would it work?
<flux> run sitemapper-servers on other hosts? I think that'd be even more invasive..
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<Camarade_Tux> yeah, "invasive" wasn't the good word but the idea of letting a program execute on a remote machine by itself sounds a bit too much
<Camarade_Tux> bleh, have troubles finding my words, I better read what I'm supposed to do before falling asleep ;-)
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<flux> well, it uses only the hosts you give it as command line arguments
<flux> it doesn't just stealurkeez & find peers and go in ;)
<Camarade_Tux> my expectations about my work are really falling: now I'm hoping I'll find the subject of what I'm supposed to do ><
<Camarade_Tux> heheh
<flux> what are you supposed to do in general, btw?-)
<flux> if nothing unexpected happens, I should be graduating on the 7th \o/
<Camarade_Tux> errr, absolutely no idea? ;p
<Camarade_Tux> \o/
<flux> camarade_tux, do you even know the course?-)
<Camarade_Tux> yeah, but I haven't looked at the paper I was handed
<Camarade_Tux> I know it's not long or hard however
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<Camarade_Tux> ok, guess I don't actually have it: my neighbour must have stolen it ><
<flux> good luck with your home work yet-to-be-learned-what-it-is :)
<flux> I'm going off to sleep
<flux> (23PM here)
<flux> (hm, that was a bit redundant..)
<Camarade_Tux> good night :-)
<Camarade_Tux> nah, 48 hours days are great ;-)
<Camarade_Tux> \o/ found it!
<derdon> which lib can you recommend if I want to support tab-completion in my CLI-based application?
<derdon> I couldn't find anyocaml-binding for readline
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<thelema> derdon: you may be able to use ledit
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<derdon> thelema: may you show me the homepage to this project, please? I cannot find it
<thelema> ftp://ftp.inria.fr/INRIA/Projects/cristal/Daniel.de_Rauglaudre/Tools/
<derdon> thanks
<Camarade_Tux> can't remember if its functionnality was useable as a library (there was a discussion on the ml)
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<thelema> oh, tab completion? I was thinking readline like history.
<thelema> for tab completion, look into lwt's toplevel enhancement, which has tab completion
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<derdon> thelema: do you mean this: http://ocsigen.org/lwt/ ?
<thelema> derdon: yes - one thing they did was an enhanced toplevel
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<derdon> thelema: ok, will look into that later. thank you!
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