<tomprince>
thelema: If odb is going to support vcs versions, then it shouldn't assume that oasis has been run.
<tomprince>
And I suspect that packages don't fall neatly into the two categories.
<tomprince>
There are probably packages that provide both a library and helper programs. And packages that install multiple executables.
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<dsheets>
hmm why would a camlp4 label not consume through an underscore?
<dsheets>
hmm never mind
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<everyonemines>
pascal: pm me if you see this
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<everyonemines>
anybody interested in collaborating on a vector animation program? in ocaml and c? with some background in image compression or vector graphics?
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<dsheets>
everyonemines: 2d? 3d?
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<everyonemines>
Well, you know what vector graphics are, right?
<everyonemines>
It's essentially 2d but you can use them as representations for 3d rendering, and you can apply 3d transformations.
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<everyonemines>
Basically, I'd like to make something like the flash animation system, but something less complex that doesn't completely suck.
<everyonemines>
Using more sophisticated algorithms.
<everyonemines>
I have the algorithms needed pretty much figured out.
<everyonemines>
(and not using flash format)
<everyonemines>
That wasm
<everyonemines>
Ah, I didn't set out to "beat flash at something", I just saw it as a good application for some nice algorithms.
<everyonemines>
I like algorithms. :-)
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<everyonemines>
At least, I keep hearing about how flash sucks.
<adrien>
on my todo for something related: bindings to the EFLs (Enlightenment Foundation Libraries)
<adrien>
afk
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<thelema>
tomprince: thanks for the feedback. I'll add installing and running oasis on the todo list, but as it is, most projects using oasis tend to check in to VCS their setup.ml file
<thelema>
tomprince: I'll fix up the library/executable description
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<tomprince>
thelema: It isn't ocaml, but the python project twisted install a library twisted, and programs twistd, trial (neither of which are named the same as the package)
<tomprince>
I'd included a strongly worded comment discouraging not having a toplevel directory in the tarball.
<tomprince>
And will Makefile support be invoked if there is configure, but no Makefile (maybe just Makefile.in for autoconf).
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<stryrre>
hi
<stryrre>
I'm trying to make my ocaml module available from python
<stryrre>
In fact I succeeded
<stryrre>
on 32bit arch
<stryrre>
and trying to reproduce this on a 64b, it fail, complaining about missing -fPIC option when ocaml was first compiled
<mfp>
stryrre: right, you need to have the OCaml runtime built with -fPIC
<stryrre>
is there an easy way to do it (I'm using godi) without having to reinstall all my ocaml stuffs ?
<everyonemines>
download just ocaml and recompile?
<everyonemines>
I'd guess the libraries should stay installed.
<everyonemines>
Because otherwise they'd get deleted when you update.
<mfp>
I believe it's somehow possible to tell GODI to use -fPIC when building OCaml and have it rebuild everything as needed, but it might involve patching some Makefiles or such
<stryrre>
there are godi-ocaml-src and godi-ocaml packages
<stryrre>
but I can't find where to add the -fPIC
<everyonemines>
Yeah, you add it as an option when compiling. You'd probably need to edit it into a config file to use if with godi.
<everyonemines>
You know how to install without godi right?
<stryrre>
I should be able to figure out
<stryrre>
but I was hoping I missed some simple option in godi
<everyonemines>
compiling things isn't hard until they don't compile :-)
<stryrre>
oh actually godi-ocaml-src has a OCAML_CONF_ARGS option
<stryrre>
hehe
<everyonemines>
there you go
<stryrre>
"Further options for the configure script"
<stryrre>
but fPIC is for gcc right ? So I have to tell the configure script to tell gcc about it
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<mfp>
stryrre: -cc "gcc -fPIC"
<mfp>
oh it's actually documented in INSTALL >
<mfp>
On a Linux x86/64 bits host, to build the run-time system in PIC mode (enables putting the runtime in a shared library, at a small performance cost):
<stryrre>
but it seems recompiling the -src package is not enough
<stryrre>
ok apparently now I have to let it recompile everything I installed through godi
<stryrre>
and it is adding the fPIC everywhere
<stryrre>
so it should work (after some time)
<stryrre>
thanks
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<eulyix>
I'm trying to follow the tutorial in the caml manual, but in response to #load "dynlink.cma";; I receive "Cannot find file dynlink.cma." from the interpreter. I installed ocaml thru the Ubuntu package repositories. Thank you.
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<zorun>
eulyix: I think it's not useful
<zorun>
afair, it's windows-realted
<eulyix>
zorun, I get the same error with #load "camlp4o.cma";; which I do need :-(
<zorun>
ah
<zorun>
try cmxa ?
<zorun>
#load "campl4o.cmxa"
<zorun>
I've never used camlp4, sorry
<zorun>
#load "camlp4o.cmxa" even
<eulyix>
zorun, sadly that fails too.
<everyonemines>
irc://irc.freenode.net/#load "dynlink.cma";; works for me
<everyonemines>
hah oops
<eulyix>
I have Objective Caml version 3.11.2
<everyonemines>
uh, update to 3.12 and try again?
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<everyonemines>
download the source, it's an easy compile
<zorun>
err
<everyonemines>
and ocaml compiles real fast
<zorun>
you'd rather want to stick with ubuntu packages instead of compiling
<everyonemines>
why
<zorun>
because it's cleaner?
<everyonemines>
not an ubuntu user but
<everyonemines>
uh, how?
<zorun>
if there's a way to do something through your package manager (whatever the distro), it's much much better
<everyonemines>
not really
<eulyix>
I'll just keep the source compilation in a local folder, than it won't wee all over my system
<everyonemines>
I disagree
<eulyix>
*then
<zorun>
eulyix: that's acceptable, yeah
<eulyix>
Thanks for the help.
<zorun>
but throwing "# make install" for everything just doesn't make sense
<zorun>
you're messing your system up
<everyonemines>
I've had bad experiences with package managers.
<everyonemines>
They can cause problems too.
<everyonemines>
Especially when multiple managers disagree.
<zorun>
yes, but at least you have a way to know which package owns which file
<zorun>
multiple managers? :o
<zorun>
what a weird idea :)
<everyonemines>
Or when you want compile managers.
<everyonemines>
*compile options
<zorun>
which distro are you using?
<everyonemines>
os x 10.6, osx86
<NihilistDandy>
Homebrew is where it's at
<zorun>
aaaah, OS X :)
<everyonemines>
I would totally install that but I've never had a reason to.
<NihilistDandy>
MacPorts and Fink are awful
<zorun>
I was talking about GNU/Linux distro, of course
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<zorun>
I've always failed to understand why in hell there isn't a proper package manager in OS X…
<everyonemines>
because installing stuff is just as easy
<everyonemines>
download dmg -> drag application to folder
<NihilistDandy>
zorun: There are three package managers, but no official one
<everyonemines>
works pretty well
<NihilistDandy>
everyonemines: What about when you need to install something that's not an app?
<zorun>
everyonemines: and how do you manage upgrades?
<everyonemines>
configure & make & make install
<NihilistDandy>
What prefix do you put everything in?
<everyonemines>
most apps check for their updates
<everyonemines>
I've never had to set a prefix.
<zorun>
that's not very convenient
<NihilistDandy>
everyonemines: What I mean is, where does make install put the files?
<everyonemines>
usually a bin folder
<everyonemines>
but I don't really care
<everyonemines>
never had a problem, except for stuff that doesn't compile
<everyonemines>
am I missing something here?
<NihilistDandy>
What happens when you need to remove something?
<zorun>
everyonemines: common sense? :)
<eulyix>
I've had problem in the passed where I've forgotten that I installed something manually and had PATH conflicts
<zorun>
package managers are great
<zorun>
(useful, practical, allows you to know what's on your system, centralize upgrades…)
<NihilistDandy>
If not a package manager, you should at least use a non-system prefix to prevent breakage and ease removals
<everyonemines>
The OS X way is to include dependencies.
<NihilistDandy>
/usr/local/ is there for a reason
<everyonemines>
It has disadvantages, yes, but you never have dependency issues that prevent using an application.
<eulyix>
Oh, does OS X have something similar to the ports system in FreeBSD for source compliations?
<everyonemines>
HD space is cheap now.
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<NihilistDandy>
eulyix: Nothing native. There are three package manager options that range from awful to acceptable.
<everyonemines>
NihilistDandy: If I need to remove something, I can search for the folders and then rm the root ones. But it hasn't been a big issue.
<eulyix>
Huzzah, I can load both files now :-)
<zorun>
\o/
<NihilistDandy>
So if you install glib or something, you're going to rm all of /usr/lib?
<everyonemines>
why would i want glib
<NihilistDandy>
Don't be obtuse.
<NihilistDandy>
It's an example
<everyonemines>
OS X stuff tends to stay in application folders
<NihilistDandy>
Not libs compiled from source
<everyonemines>
doesn't pollute hidden folders as much
<everyonemines>
Hmm, compiling from source is irrelevant. You mean, not command line programming tools.
<NihilistDandy>
What?
<everyonemines>
things that you call from the command line tend to go in hidden folders
<everyonemines>
other stuff has stayed in the app folder
<everyonemines>
in my experience
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<everyonemines>
(app folder, and preferences folder)
<NihilistDandy>
Right, and what we're talking about is compiling from source
<everyonemines>
so?
<NihilistDandy>
Which is where it's useful to have a package manager
<everyonemines>
not really, compiling is easy
<zorun>
it's not about being easy
<everyonemines>
if it's hard it's because you get a compile error
<NihilistDandy>
Because it's easier to remove packages without nuking your entire /usr/lib, which is what it sounds like you would do
<zorun>
it's about being easy to manage
<everyonemines>
and pkg managers make that harder
<everyonemines>
I haven't really needed to remove packages very often.
<zorun>
a good package manager doesn't make that harder
<zorun>
the opposite
<eulyix>
I can't believe how easy it is to write compilers in caml. Why my school choose VC++ is beyond me o_O
<NihilistDandy>
But if you did, your "rm the root folder" option will *break your machine*
<everyonemines>
hasn't so far
<zorun>
everyonemines: how long have you been doing this?
<everyonemines>
i mean the root folder of the application, not /bin or something
<zorun>
my guess is that if you do that for more than a few years, you'll end up with tons of things, spattered accross your system, which you don't use
<zorun>
without having a way to know which is where
<NihilistDandy>
everyonemines: Right, but if you install a library from source, it'll likely go in /lib or /usr/lib
<zorun>
or even which is present
<NihilistDandy>
Either of which will destroy your system if you delete them
<zorun>
eulyix: unfortunately, lots of school tend to stick to MS products…
<zorun>
because they get free (or almost) licenses for educational use
<eulyix>
zorun, indeed, we're have that MSDNAA thingy.
<eulyix>
So *everything* is microsoft technology in our school.
<eulyix>
*we
<NihilistDandy>
Ugh. That's unfortunate
<everyonemines>
meh
<everyonemines>
usr/lib is 275k
<NihilistDandy>
Tell them to switch to emacs for everything :D
<eulyix>
Haha
<zorun>
:)
<NihilistDandy>
everyonemines: What's your point?
<everyonemines>
I don't need to remove anything from there, it's not hurting anything.
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<NihilistDandy>
Done.
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<Anarchos>
hi NihilistDandy
<NihilistDandy>
hi Anarchos
<NihilistDandy>
What's up?
<Anarchos>
NihilistDandy nothing
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<ousado>
heh
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<psnively>
Hi everyone! A few years ago, Mike Furr and Jeff Foster wrote a FFI type-checking system called Saffire, but I'll be darned if I can actually find the software anywhere. Does anyone know anything about it?
<adrien>
iirc someone pointed me to archive.org for that
<psnively>
I'll dig there, thanks!
<psnively>
Hmmm, no joy under "software."
<adrien>
I probably have that in my IRC logs
<psnively>
If you have a moment to look, I'd be grateful. I suppose my next step would be to e-mail one of the developers.
<adrien>
I plan on making something quite small to expose ocaml types to the C interface at least partly
<psnively>
Ah, excellent. Thank you!
<adrien>
so that when you write type t = { a : int; b : int }, you also get enum { T_A, T_B } to have a reliable way to reference one field
<psnively>
Nice.
<psnively>
Thanks again!
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<thelema>
tomprince: thanks for the more good comments.
<thelema>
tomprince: I'm trying to avoid having info in the package database about how to detect a package, but maybe this isn't a bad idea. Although for the twisted example, it's not important for odb to know about the twistd and trial executables
<thelema>
I agree on the not having toplevel directory in tarball
<thelema>
and makefile support is invoked at the moment anytime things aren't detected as oasis or omake, so lack of makfile is not a problem
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<adrien>
bah
<adrien>
ocamlbuild is not relinking my executable
<adrien>
it rebuilds the cmx file for the .ml I've changed but it doesn't link again
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<adrien>
bahj
<adrien>
I have several files named the same way but in different packs
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<adrien>
bwahahaha: I was missing something in my _oasis file; the pack stuff has a tendency to work even if you break something; of course it won't completely work
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<hcarty>
adrien: Are you using oasis + -for-pack support? Are you happy with the patch?
<adrien>
yes, and yes
<adrien>
I should link to my _oasis file actually
<adrien>
the support is not perfect but if you start from a working _oasis, you should be good
<adrien>
ah
<adrien>
and I'll have to check again why I'm editing the _tags file with sed (git blame will help =) )
<adrien>
(I know roughly but I need to check the details)
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<stryrre>
mfp: for the record, recompiling libasmrun.a for 64bit with -fPIC did work, but only after I switching from 3.11 to 3.12 and in godi (with 3.12) I had to add the option to the godi-ocaml-src package and then to rebuilt the godi-ocaml package (on which everything else depends, so I had to rebuild the world, the universe and few other things). thanks for the help. now I can "import myCompiledOcaml" as a python module \o/
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