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<pippijn>
wmeyer: do you want to work on treematch ever again?
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<Kakadu>
morning
<companion_cube>
hi!
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<Kakadu>
If opam package has takes sources from git.....
<Kakadu>
than after every update opam should look at sources, pull changes and report if package was updated?
<adrien_oww>
(it's a bad idea)
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<Kakadu>
adrien_oww: any details?
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<adrien_oww>
a packager's job is not to simply create the package metadata and be done with it
<adrien_oww>
updates need to be tested
<adrien_oww>
before they're pushed to others
<adrien_oww>
and that cannot be done if the package pulls from git head
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<avsm>
Kakadu: not on update. it refreshes the remote before an installation
<Kakadu>
avsm: remote repo, not sources of packages from this remote repo?
<avsm>
repo: on update. package: on install
<avsm>
just read the output from OPAM and it'll tell you when it's doing something remote
<Kakadu>
yeah, I read output of `opam update` and was suprised that it doesn't pull changes of every package which points to git HEAD
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<Kakadu>
well, I've created git repo at ~/2 and opam package which points to this location. While package installation opam pulls changes once and creates tarball to use it later. If I commit to git repo it still uses the tarball. Is this behaviour expected?
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<whitequark>
is there something like "make clean" for ocamlbuild?
<Drup>
whitequark: ocamlbuild -clean
<whitequark>
Drup: thanks
<whitequark>
in unrelated news, it's mind-boggling how it works instantly, and rake takes two seconds just to start >_<
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<pippijn>
whitequark: ocamlbuild clean is just rm -rf _build
<whitequark>
pippijn: I see
<whitequark>
hm. I don't quite get how automatic module naming works. so if I have a file `foo.ml` (and possibly corresponding `foo.mli`), they get grouped to a module Foo.
<whitequark>
and I can declare nested modules inside that.
<whitequark>
can it form the module path based on directory path?
<pippijn>
yes, it's capitalised module name without .ml
<pippijn>
file name
<Drup>
whitequark: modules have nothing to do with directory path
<whitequark>
Drup: can a module span more than one file?
<pippijn>
no
<Drup>
a module is a package contain various declarations. A compilation unit (aka, a file) is transformed into a module with the same name and the first letter capitalized. That's (almost) all of it.
<pippijn>
but you can pack modules together into one module
<pippijn>
there is a good standalone preprocessor out there
<pippijn>
mcpp or so
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<whitequark>
pippijn: the point of including the preprocessor is to track locations better.
<whitequark>
e.g. clang invokes some kind of dark magic to efficiently (it really is) track tokens through *all* macro expansions
<whitequark>
i.e. it can unfold them at arbitrarary depth
<pippijn>
yeah, I know
<pippijn>
that's neat
<pippijn>
but not the point of my parser :)
<ggole>
It's also faster to interleave preprocessing and "lexing proper", I think
<ggole>
Rather than doing a first pass
<whitequark>
less copying, I guess
<pippijn>
well, that was the first thing I did with ocaml
<pippijn>
so..
<ggole>
C has a pretty silly lexical structure
<pippijn>
at least it's infinitely faster than CIL
<ggole>
I mean, trigraphs
<whitequark>
blargh
<whitequark>
but, trigraphs were a necessary evil.
<whitequark>
I'm... really afraid to think how someone could program with trigraphs
<ggole>
I'm fairly sure they were committee mandated junk
<whitequark>
in the standard? yes. were they used in practice? yes, that's how they went in the standard.
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<whitequark>
basically, standard covers all the commercial implementations which pay enough.
<whitequark>
so they can immediately adhere to it.
<ggole>
Like I said: committee mandated junk
<ggole>
Just because somebody wants something doesn't mean it isn't brain damaged
<whitequark>
ggole: you're fired :p
<whitequark>
(not that I disagree with you!)
<ggole>
It should have been simply left as an extension
<ggole>
It's not like C hasn't seem a bajillion of them
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<ggole>
(See that article for some eyebrow raising examples)
<pippijn>
reading it
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<pippijn>
ggole: awesome
<pippijn>
I love this
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<pippijn>
that's just amazing
<ggole>
Yeah, it's a good article
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<whitequark>
yeah...
<whitequark>
reminds that the code we can easily see is just the tip of the iceberg.
<whitequark>
and is most often one of the best specimens
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<pippijn>
hmm
<pippijn>
I wonder if open source programmers care more about their code quality than closed source ones
<pippijn>
most C coders I know are pretty anal about their -Wall -Wextra -W... -Werror -pedantic -...
<pippijn>
(which is stupid, by the way)
<ggole>
-Wxxx doesn't save you from C, but it does catch the odd bit of dumb junk
<ggole>
And it is low effort, which is always nice :)
<pippijn>
yes
<pippijn>
-Werror is a mistake
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<pippijn>
having warnings is useful
<gasche>
in my very limited (thanks) experience with C programming, nowadays compilers are actually rather good at catching pointer-level mistakes
<pippijn>
gasche: you mean clang's static analysis?
<gasche>
(I remember it being much less effective in the past, but maybe I just didn't know to enable them)
<gasche>
I was thinking of gcc
<pippijn>
what does it catch?
<gasche>
rather obvious things corresponding to rather obvious typos/omissions
<gasche>
but iirc it catched some initialized uses, use of * instead of **, etc.
<pippijn>
oh
<pippijn>
that's just a type error
<pippijn>
compilers don't put a lot of effort into catching flow-sensitive bugs
<ggole>
C compilers used to be quite extraordinarily lax
<pippijn>
"may be uninitialised" is the best one
<gasche>
hm
<pippijn>
yes, that's true
<gasche>
going back in the log
<gasche>
pippijn: some people have been using (modified versions of) Batteries with js_of_ocaml
<gasche>
would you be interested in that use case?
<gasche>
we have code sitting around that I would like to see integrated in Batteries upstream
<gasche>
but so far none of the most active contributors use js_of_ocaml, so nobody stepped up to look at this
<gasche>
that said
<gasche>
I believe the Camomile part may be one of the disabled parts
<gasche>
so if your only use-case for Batteries were UTF8...
<gasche>
(what I mean by "code sitting around" is that we now know of the forked versions that selectively scraped features off for js_of_ocaml usage; we still need to do the work of *cleanly* integrating that upstream, probably with conditional preprocessing logic)
<pippijn>
I don't use batteries a lot
<pippijn>
and I rewrote some of the functions I needed to make the parser work with js_of_ocaml
<pippijn>
BatList, mainly
<pippijn>
and some BatString
<pippijn>
and some operators
<pippijn>
|> -| etc.
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<pippijn>
ggole: nice article
<pippijn>
ggole: the authors seem to be sympathetic people
<pippijn>
wmeyer: the test thingy you had started a long time ago has evolved a little bit
<pippijn>
wmeyer: your comment style is still in there ;)
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<whitequark>
there's also clang's dynamic analyses, tons of them
<whitequark>
ubsan, tsan, msan, asan, lsan
<adrien>
san
<adrien>
dwich
<adrien>
(sorry :P )
<Drup>
gasche: I may be interested, I have some code using BatEnum I would like to compile with js_of_ocaml, I didn't start anything yet, but it's planed
<pippijn>
msan - mmm sandwich
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<pippijn>
ahh sandwich
<pippijn>
lovely sandwich
<pippijn>
uber sandwich
<pippijn>
tasty sandwich
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<wmeyer>
pippijn: nice!
<whitequark>
lol
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<pippijn>
wmeyer: ping
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<wmeyer>
pippijn: pong
<pippijn>
wmeyer: treematch
<wmeyer>
pippijn: what do you want to do with my treematch?
<pippijn>
I haven't changed anything about it
<pippijn>
it still compiles (but fails 2 tests)
<pippijn>
anyway
<pippijn>
are you going to do anything with it?
<wmeyer>
pippijn: feel free to use it, but it's incomplete
<pippijn>
because I'm not touching that
<wmeyer>
I will not have time to do at the moment, but might look in future
<pippijn>
ok, I currently have a joint repository with all my projects in it
<pippijn>
I'm going to split it up again, later
<pippijn>
I stopped working on the glr thing, because I have an error
<pippijn>
treebuilding is wrong, I think
<pippijn>
I didn't have time to make a testcase, yet
<adrien>
wmeyer: ah: Damien has reverted one of the changes to byterun/Makefile because it was a gmake-ism but it was also present elsewhere in the ocaml sources already
<adrien>
wmeyer: turns out it's only in Makefile.nt
<adrien>
in the ".nt" variants I mean
<adrien>
that said, I don't really understand advantage of this:
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<adrien>
ah, right, now I understand: $(call f,arg1,arg2,...) will replace $(1), $(2), ... in the definition of 'f' with the corresponding values
<adrien>
while the latter way is more straightforward
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<wmeyer>
possibly the "uncurried" version is a GNU extension
<wmeyer>
where is explicit one is part of standard Makefiles
<adrien>
yeah, $(call ...) is GNU
<adrien>
unfortunately it's pretty useful and nice
<pippijn>
$(everything ...) is gnu
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<MarcWeber>
cppo adds line markers "# 142" which camlp4 has trouble with?
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<gasche>
MarcWeber: I *think* Camlp4 should suppor th
<gasche>
that
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<wmeyer>
gasche: I am sure it does.
<gasche>
wmeyer: in the link pippij-n pasted above, it looks like your ocamlbuild test framework, but with records instead of (optional) labelled arguments
<gasche>
I suspect I like this style slightly better -- if we don't need to many different record types
<gasche>
maybe someday I'll have a try at how the ocamlbuild testsuite would look with it
<gasche>
but I suspect it's not really worth the bother
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<wmeyer>
gasche: the advantage is that records, are first class, so you can pass them, or modify them
<wmeyer>
gasche: yes, that was part of my testing framework for my bigger project :-) So I draw some ideas for ocamlbuild
<wmeyer>
although the idea in ocamlbuild testing framework is deeper that that
<wmeyer>
the testing framework actually generates the enviromnent
<wmeyer>
which is much easier to maintain than SVN controlled files
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<nlucaroni>
OpenDNS has blocked caml.inria.fr .
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