<jerry__>
actually i've got some new errors I need to investigate a bit more , In fact I try to install win-build for cross compiling
<jerry__>
ocamlfind ocamlmklib is it obsolete or deprecated ?
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<adrien_oww>
ah :D
<adrien_oww>
explains
<adrien_oww>
jerry__: I'm the main dev behind win-builds; nowadays you should probably follow http://win-builds.org/web-test ; it's still officially in beta stage but it's really a matter of hours now
<jerry__>
I try to build ocaml-archive-2.8.4+2 and it failed on the command /usr/bin/ocamlfind ocamlmklib -o src/archive-ocaml_stubs -larchive src/Archive_stub.o
<jerry__>
and this option do not appear in the ocamlfind help
<adrien_oww>
righ
<adrien_oww>
t
<adrien_oww>
which distribution do you have and which version of ocaml do you have?
<jerry__>
3.12
<adrien_oww>
hmmmmmm
<jerry__>
alright I'll try with a more recent version
<adrien_oww>
if you can, that'd solve your issues
<adrien_oww>
oh and actually, which _ocamlfind_ version do you have?
<jerry__>
I think i was 1.2.7 from the debian package but I think I'm going to get a new version
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<adrien_oww>
ok, I'll check more precisely which version is required at least
<adrien_oww>
the build system stuff around ocaml has moved a bit in the past few years and with some incompatibilities here and there
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<adrien_oww>
(and the thing you should only need to update is ocamlfind a.k.a. findlib)
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<tobiasBora>
Hello,
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<tobiasBora>
I would like to test the installation of a program I made with opam. I tried to use opam pin <my package> <my/local/path> but I have "wrong name", while I only use alphanumeric characters
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<tobiasBora>
I think that I may need to have a repo which already provide a version of my program but I don't know if creating my own repo is the good thing to do
<Kakadu>
tobiasBora: don't forget about ./configure --datarootdir=%{lib}% in opam file (or something like that)
<tobiasBora>
whitequark: It works just great, thank you !!!
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<tobiasBora>
The lib rep is for datarootdir ?
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<whitequark>
not sure I understand you
<tobiasBora>
I ask why I must use %{lib} for a data dir (for a lib dir I can understand)
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<whitequark>
from what I can see in opam-repository, it's used to place your data files next to object files installed by findlib
<whitequark>
e.g. "--datarootdir=%{lib}%/wyrd/share"
<whitequark>
that would place it into ~/.opam/4.02.0/lib/wyrd/share
<whitequark>
and .../lib/wyrd is where ocamlfind installs the object files
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<tobiasBora>
Uhm ok... Thank you so much whitequark and Kakadu_afk !
<tobiasBora>
I have to go, thank you again !
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<gasche>
I just tested "make world.opt -j5" on trunk and parallel build seems to work ok
<whitequark>
gasche: it breaks kind of randomly
<whitequark>
I've encountered it some times while trying out my clang-analyzer stuff
<whitequark>
but not always
<Drup>
(which is sort of the definition of a race condition)
<gasche>
when things are really bad, it breaks all the time
<whitequark>
:]
<adrien_oww>
gasche: do we get to sort the large changes that will come after 4.02?
<adrien_oww>
like first move ocamlbuild then remove Makefile.nt files then merge menhir support then ...
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<gasche>
you mean, will trunk development be the result from synchronized collaboration of orderly communicating actors?
<gasche>
s/from/of/
<adrien>
(and I didn't know the makefiles' portability had already been dropped)
<gasche>
it sounds a bit too optimistic
<gasche>
I think it was in reaction to your work
<adrien>
if we all do everything at the same time we'll get useless conflicts
<gasche>
also, menhir will never be merged
<gasche>
you probably meant "use a menhir syntax"
<gasche>
s/syntax/parser/
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<gasche>
adrien: I think I observed a situation once where a bytecode bootstrap compiler compiled on a 64-bits machine would not run on a 32-bits machine
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<gasche>
(which I think I solved by reverting the last bootstrap change and re-doing it from the 32b machine)
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<adrien>
gasche: I bug report precisely about that
<gasche>
sent a? saw a?
<gasche>
will you be at OUPS tomorrow?
<adrien>
"remember a"
<adrien>
:P
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<adrien>
yeah, I will; I'm on the other side of the butte aux cailles so I don't have a good excuse to not attend ;-)
<Drup>
gasche: do you know if there will be streaming/video for this OUPS ?
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<adrien>
sure! (we'll stream nyancat)
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<Drup>
adrien : I have multiple agents there, and at least one has your phone number, be gentle :p
<gasche>
Drup: I just asked and "yes"
<gasche>
streaming no, recording yes
<Drup>
to which one ? :D
<Drup>
ok
<Drup>
nice
<adrien>
Drup: you have agents? I'm sure I can bribe them ;-)
<Drup>
adrien : you tried already, didn't prevent you to receive night calls :p
<adrien>
surprisngly I've always falen asleep right after them
<flux>
it's funny how the greatest changes to the language in recent times comes with 4.02.. not with 3.9999 ;-)
<flux>
unless this is a way of the future, the 4-series will contain all ground-breaking cool new features at all releases :)
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<adrien>
:)
<gasche>
flux: which changes are you thinking of?
<gasche>
GADT was a pretty major change
<flux>
well, the deprecation of camlp4 for one?
<flux>
extensible open datatypes, exception cases, ..
<gasche>
(I'd claim it is bigger in scope than extensible variants; at least it make the type system "more unsound" :p)
<flux>
all the things mentioned in the announcement on the ml ;)
<gasche>
I'm embarrassed about the announcement
<flux>
and the Bytes/String separation
<flux>
are these all not big changes?-o
<gasche>
it has some attribution information, which is precisely the one the only committer that cares about information added with his own commit
<gasche>
I wished Damien had told me that he would include the Changes, and I had completed this
<gasche>
*wish
<flux>
well, it's a beta
<flux>
you still have time ;-)
<gasche>
flux: I think GADT was a larger change in scope than any of those you mentioned
<gasche>
but yeah, they do sum up to an ambitious release
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<flux>
but it's only this release that actually is going to also make use of them in the standard library?
<gasche>
the semantics of the 4.00 bump may be re-interpreted in the future as "full-steam language evolution starts again"
<flux>
the bigaarray functionality making use of them seemed nice
<gasche>
correct
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<flux>
"Allow opening of first class module", does this change also allow let open Map(Integer) in .. ?
<flux>
(or just plain 'open Map(String)')
<gasche>
that's probably unrelated
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<adrien_oww>
gasche: you have plenty of time to add more stuff to the changelog before 4.02 ;-)
<gasche>
still
<adrien_oww>
right, start working on it now
* adrien_oww
gets the flog
<gasche>
the other source of embarassment is that I know the beta is almost unusable for any serious format users, because of the various regressions
<adrien_oww>
which is why it's beta
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<gasche>
indeed
<adrien_oww>
but feedback is needed
<adrien_oww>
distributions need to update
<adrien_oww>
possibly debian too
<gasche>
the most problematic regressions we already know about
<gasche>
I think if I had fixed the main reported ones before the beta, furthr reports would have been fairly minors
<adrien_oww>
btw, is it possible to get a decision about whether to split or not ocamlbuild before 4.02 is released?
<adrien_oww>
so that it can be put in release notes
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<whitequark>
adrien_oww: I have an idea about ocamlbuild.
<whitequark>
if the problem, or rather the motivating cause for the split, is that it moves too slow when it only moves with the releases, let's do this
<whitequark>
make a *fork* of ocamlbuild and let users install it via opam
<whitequark>
I mean, you don't have to kill it in the main repo to make one on github, right?
<whitequark>
and it's just a bunch of ml code you can easily build
<Drup>
whitequark: that part is already done
<gasche>
whitequark: the people that push for splitting ocamlbuild have already suggested installing it under the name "ocamlbuildng" to coexist with a distribution-installed one
<gasche>
they coordinate through a github wiki, you should go have a look if you want to participate
<gasche>
(it was mentioned in the bugtracker)
<adrien_oww>
also it should be possible to build 4.02 without ocamlbuild
<adrien_oww>
but we certainly don't want two upstreams
<whitequark>
why not?
<adrien_oww>
also, what after ocamlbuildng? ocamlbuildds9? :P
<adrien_oww>
enough confusion and build systems
<whitequark>
adrien_oww: it's been successfully done before in the past
<whitequark>
say, eglibc
<adrien_oww>
eglibc is merged back
<adrien_oww>
and was some kind of last resort
<whitequark>
exactly, it's merged back
<whitequark>
that's the whole point of a friendly fork
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<adrien_oww>
mostly that drepper left rh years ago
<gasche>
adrien_oww: re. your question
<gasche>
I can try to start a discussion on this but that's secondary wrt. release managment
<adrien_oww>
kinda agree
<gasche>
(I think making an announce at release time or after release time does not make much of a difference)
<adrien_oww>
but a roadmap would be nice
<gasche>
well
<adrien_oww>
sure, but having it right in the release would be even better
<gasche>
there is a roadmap on the wiki I was talking about
<adrien_oww>
official one :P
<adrien_oww>
a rough one I mean
<gasche>
the split won't be in the release
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<gasche>
if your question is how to coordinate your own development work, I think it's best that you discuss it on Mantis/github/whatever directly
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<companion_cube>
o/
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<adrien_oww>
gasche: nope, not for me; well, except that I prefer not to have conflicts all the time
<adrien_oww>
and I think it'd be a waste of time to update files that will be removed the week after
<gasche>
last time this was discussed (at the time of the camlp4 split), I mentioned that splitting right in the middle of your cross-compilation was not very nice for you
<gasche>
but given the long break, that argument lost a bit of its weight :p
<adrien_oww>
nah, that was fine since I built without camlp4 anyway :P
<adrien_oww>
a warning would have been nice though :P
<adrien_oww>
but had it been done before, it would have been *way* nicer
<adrien_oww>
same for ocamlbuild, if it gets moved, it means way less work for cross-compilation
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<gasche>
alpounet: I hadn't noticed you login lately, are you working with OCaml again?
<companion_cube>
he must be waiting for typeclasses
<companion_cube>
oops();
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<whitequark>
will typeclass-using code be included in ocaml stdlib?
<whitequark>
something like: open Implicit;; (=) → ?#eq:('a -> 'a -> bool) -> 'a -> 'a -> bool
<gasche>
this is so far in the hypothetical future this question doesn't even make sense :D
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<jerry__>
adrien_oww some updates I successfull most of the install with ocaml 4.01 and findlib 1.4.2 but now the part Build yypkg itself is falling for this reason Package `fileutils.str' not found
<companion_cube>
whitequark: it will be included in better stdlibs ;)
<adrien_oww>
jerry__: good news; which version of fileutils have you picked? and what does "ocamlfind list | grep fileutils" show?
<whitequark>
companion_cube: that's a really bad answer.
<gasche>
what about the ocaml-to-LLVM recap? :p
<whitequark>
I shouldn't have to use batteries, core, or whatever bloated thing is in fashion now, just to get equality working as it always should have
<jerry__>
none I guess
<companion_cube>
whitequark: unless the new implicit equality is 100% compatible with the current polymorphic equality, I think the stdlib will have to stick to retrocompatibility
<whitequark>
gasche: I actually updated the article just a few days ago
<whitequark>
though not quite in the publishing shape yet
<adrien_oww>
jerry__: actually I wonder if it will show "fileutils.pcre"
<companion_cube>
whitequark: so you're asking for a lightweight, bloat-free alternative stdlib? ^^
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<companion_cube>
indeed.
<companion_cube>
maybe 'Implicit' could be a small library though
<whitequark>
well, I guess it could be published as a package
<whitequark>
not much harm in that.
<jerry__>
should this come from ocaml-fileutils-04.5
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<jerry__>
where should be located this fileutils.str
<adrien_oww>
jerry__: ocaml-fileutils can be built against PCRE or Str; I think that if PCRE is available, it is preferred and automatically used
<kaustuv>
So it looks like Batteries is pretty broken with the new 4.02 beta.
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<kaustuv>
But maybe this is expected because of the changes to Format.
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<alpounet>
gasche: hey, not really, i actually write haskell for a living these days, but i'm just looking around to see how things are going in the ocaml world
<kaustuv>
Anything in OCaml you miss in Haskell?
<alpounet>
tough question.
<gasche>
where do you work now?
<alpounet>
kaustuv: i guess I can say I miss the module system, for sure
<adrien_oww>
jerry__: I've checked ocaml-fileutils' build system and couldn't spot what I thought; so you've installed ocaml-fileutils and got no error? have you set the environment variables like OCAMLPATH?
<gasche>
hopefully Backpack will enter the language at some point
<kaustuv>
backpack looks amazing
<alpounet>
yeah
<companion_cube>
maybe in 15 years haskell and the non-OO part of OCaml will be the same
<companion_cube>
^^
<alpounet>
kaustuv: aside from that, to be completely honest, I don't miss much. haskell certainly isn't perfect, and is different from ocaml in various ways, but all in all I just feel I can express myself more easily in Haskell, building up small abstractions and combining them.
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<alpounet>
also, I know this is a quite common comment, but the whole standard library / package management story is better over there, although I think it's __much__ better now with oasis, opam and friends
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<kaustuv>
My own experience with Haskell is that it is quite pleasant to write functional, data structure-heavy things, but when I need to do something nasty like hash tables then I have to delve into the nastiness that is the monad transformers library
<companion_cube>
hashtables aren't nasty, they are your friend :)
<jerry__>
adrien_oww, should ocaml-fileutils build create the fileutils .str or pcre ??
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<kaustuv>
I also think that it is a bit strange that the only way I can have, say, an ST variable as part of a module interface is by using unsafePerformIO
<gasche>
hm? I'm surprised
<gasche>
ah
<kaustuv>
Because "create new ST variable" is an IO action
<adrien_oww>
jerry__: "str"; it should always be built
<gasche>
you don't want to fix the region type parameter
<gasche>
it would work if you could build a functor over it
<gasche>
it would work in Coq/Agda/Idris, with the "module" expressed as a dependent record
<gasche>
(or in a pure OCaml of course)
<jerry__>
adrien_oww I've redeone some part of the install then I get something right I guess my cryptokit was messed up
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<adrien_oww>
hmm, weird; but possible
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<alpounet>
kaustuv: I can see what a lot of people dislike, and regarding ST I'm not sure of what you mean, except that it's a bit complex when you first look at it
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<gasche>
alpounet: you can't insert a module boundary between the runST and the rest of the region-using code
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<gasche>
(of course you can use the predef region that makes it equivalent to IO, but it kinds of defeat the purpose)
<gasche>
that's a limitation on the scale of runST-using code, when compared to say the State monad
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<tobiasBora>
I'm trying to use oasis and I defined a library with only InternalModules (no Modules), however when I install my project I have a folder which is created in the opam/.../lib directory with this library... Is it normal ?
<jerry__>
Its failed :[native_toolchain] Building efl.
<jerry__>
Fatal error: exception Failure("Failed process [1]: `sh -cex cd "slackbuilds.org/efl"; export DESCR="$(sed -n 's;^[-[:alnum:]]\+: ;; p' slack-desc | sed -e 's;";\\\\";g' -e 's;/;\\/;g' | tr '\n' ' ')"; export PREFIX="$(echo "${YYPREFIX}" | sed 's;^/;;')"; if [ -e config ]; then
<jerry__>
Raised at file "pervasives.ml", line 20, characters 22-33
<adrien_oww>
can you pastebin 1.4-beta3/logs/native_toolchain/efl?
<adrien_oww>
takes a couple try to get the full list of build dependencies; btw, have you apt-get install'ed the large list in the documentation?
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<tobiasBora>
Does anyone knows how I can do to copy/paste a whole folder in the Data dir with oasis ? I tried to use DataFiles but it's quite annoying because I need to write each file with *.ext and I can't easily deal with subdirectory (I need to add each directory and I can have lot's of subdirectories...)
<adrien_oww>
hmm, an issue higher up the chain; can you tar and compress 1.4-beta3/logs/cross_toolchain_32 and send it at adrien@notk.org?
<adrien_oww>
something like "tar czf cross_toolchain_32.tar.gz 1.4-beta3/logs/cross_toolchain_32"
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<adrien_oww>
ergh, can't find my mantis credentials anymore; for #6411, there might be an issue with intrinsics
<jerry__>
adrien_oww, file sent
<adrien_oww>
thanks
<jerry__>
adrien_oww, I got to go could you reply me be mail when you 'll have time ?
<jerry__>
by email sorry
<adrien_oww>
jerry__: can you check the versions of the following libraries: gmp, mpfr and mpc?
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<adrien_oww>
hmmm, "old" version of mpfr
<adrien_oww>
and mpc
<jerry__>
they don't seem to be installed
<adrien_oww>
at all?
<jerry__>
i've got a packge libmpfr4 3.1.0-3ubuntu2
<adrien_oww>
I guess it's possible; gcc 4.8 requires gmp >= 4.2, mpfr >= 2.4.0 and MPC 0.8.0
<jerry__>
libgmp10 2:5.0.2+dfsg-2ubuntu1
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<adrien_oww>
(actually I was wrong on mpfr being too old)
<jerry__>
and libmpc2 0.9-4
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<jerry__>
should I try to installed them from the sources
<jerry__>
?
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<jerry__>
I really hyave to go let me know by emmail , I'll get back to you on friday thanks for all you time !
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<adrien_oww>
jerry__: sorry, been a bit busy, will do
<adrien_oww>
(the joys of compat up to .... 3 years)
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<jerry__>
thanks bye
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<kmicinski>
I've installed a package (batteries) via opam, but whenever I use ocamlfind, I still get a error "Package 'batteries' not found." Do I have to do anything special to modify ocamlfind's search path after installing via opam?
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<Enjolras>
maybe eval `opam config env`
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<Enjolras>
you should put that in your ~/.profile
<kmicinski>
Unfortunately not even that helped, but adding batteries to my path did work
<kmicinski>
I'm stuck with a completely uninformative error from ocaml now:
<kmicinski>
I never expected that the batteries lib would contain a binary ocaml
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<kmicinski>
Ah I see, this is me misunderstanding Oasis, this project is using it to build and it's not playing well with opam, that's all, it's calling another ocamlfind
<Drup>
kmicinski: that's a "opam `opam config env`" error
<Drup>
not a "not playing well" issue :)
<Enjolras>
s/^opam/eval/
<Drup>
yes
<kmicinski>
I've run opam `opam config env`, which puts the correct ocamlfind in my path
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<kmicinski>
however, in this setup.ml with this oasis version, the `prog_best` function is returning