adrien changed the topic of #ocaml to: Discussions about the OCaml programming language | http://www.ocaml.org and http://caml.inria.fr | http://ocaml.org/releases/4.02.0.html | Public channel logs at http://irclog.whitequark.org/ocaml
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* whitequark snorts
<whitequark> "except for `typerex` directory poop"
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<octachron> Is there any theoretical obstacle for generalizing phantom type? E.g with _t = Eq : ('a,'a) t, Eq, ref 0 is non-generalizable
<octachron> The usual covariance trick does not work because covariance is tricky with GADT, but what I really want here is just the relaxed value restriction, not covariance.
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<octachron> Since 'a is not linked to the type of any real variable, I have the impression that it is safe to generalize it. Am I wrong?
<Drup> can you past the exact expression that is non generalizable ? because "let x = Eq" is fully polymorphic for me
<octachron> You need to had the ref 0 part which makes (x,y) expansive
<Drup> I see
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<Drup> let z = ref 0 ;;
<Drup> (Eq, z)
<Drup> polymorphic.
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<octachron> Yes. But let c = let z=ref 0 in (Eq, z) : monomorphic
<Drup> Yeah, I'm not sure you will have a solution
<Drup> ask gasche.
<adrien_oww> queue!
<adrien_oww> I'm already in line for the questions
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<sagotch> I think I already solved this issue this summer, but I can not remember how (and I am not sure I really solved the problem) -> Error: Error on dynamically loaded library: /home/ju/.opam/4.02.0/lib/llvm/dllllvm.so: /home/ju/.opam/4.02.0/lib/llvm/dllllvm.so: undefined symbol: LLVMGetFirstUse
<sagotch> Here is the compilation line: http://pastebin.com/uaJktKuA
<sagotch> Any idea to solve this?
<adrien> -ccopt -lLLVMCore \
<adrien> cclib?
<adrien> how does this get built?
<adrien> (ocamlbuild but, more details?)
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<sagotch> I used ocp-build as a building system, but this line is handwritten in a Makefile. -cclib produces the same output :(
<adrien> -ccopt -fomit \
<adrien> -ccopt -frame \
<adrien> -ccopt -pointer \
<adrien> heh
<adrien> show your makefile :]
<sagotch> this is my Makefile, actually
<sagotch> I am just trying to compile an almost empty file linking it to llvm bindings
<sagotch> falgs was the ones given by llvm-config-3.5 {--cxxflags,--libs core, --ldflags)
<adrien> show the makefile
<sagotch> (with some (fixed) errors while cutting options at the '-' char
<sagotch> ok
<sagotch> Makefile -> http://pastebin.com/1TMLmNaN
<adrien> maybe move the -cclib stuff at the end of the call; if it doesn't work, pastebin the output of the command with an added -verbose
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<sagotch> output is exactly the same
<adrien> your past doesn't mention -cclib
<adrien> have you forgotten a \ after test.cmo ?
<sagotch> nope, and removing all the --cc* stuff produce exactly the same error
<adrien> but where is your -cclib gone?
<sagotch> --cclib before/after other --ccopt or nowhere produces the same message (editied output line)
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<sagotch> -noautolink seems to fix the problem. Thank for your time
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<jpdeplaix> sagotch: wired :/
<sagotch> why?
<jpdeplaix> weird*
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<sagotch> Actually, I have very few .so in llvmlib directory, while .a are available for every module (or a lot of module, at least).
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<sagotch> I do not know if it is a problem with my installation or if it is supposed to be like that.
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<sagotch> jpdeplaix: Error: Error while linking /home/ju/.opam/4.02.0/lib/llvm/llvm.cma(Llvm): The external function `llvm_global_succ' is not available
<sagotch> I looked into soruces
<sagotch> there is no such method defined
<adrien> did you change system llvm without rebuild your bindings?
<sagotch> (and it is the same with some other global_ methods)
<sagotch> hum... maybe.
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<sagotch> It seems that these functions really are missing. Maybe I am misunderstanding something, is there anywhere else they could be if not in bindings/ocaml/llvm/llvm_ocaml.c?
<adrien> considering their name it's doubtful
<adrien> actually it looks like it comes from the bindings
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<sagotch> I found functions in Core.h and Core.cpp named LLVMGet{Last,Next,...}Global, which *may* be what ocaml bindings should call.
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<sagotch> but there is no such reference in bindings/ocaml
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<sagotch> (in 3.5.0)
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<ollehar> how about making a web framework in OCaml which uses Lua as configuration language?
<Drup> why the hell would you use lua as a configuration language ?
<Drup> sagotch: I just took a look at the binding
<Drup> indeed, it seems the llvm_global_* functions are missing
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<nicoo> ollehar: Why implement it in OCaml, then ?
<ollehar> nicoo: because OCaml is faster than Lua.
<ollehar> Maybe it could be like the Phalcon php framework, which is implemented in C as a php extension
<companion_cube> :(
<nicoo> And what would be the benefit of using Lua for configuration ? Aside from losing any kind of static guarantee about the configuration
<ollehar> Drup: because the syntax is easier than XML? and more powerful than JSON etc.
<ollehar> nicoo: dynamic typing but still with speed, since Lua is extended with OCaml. And, compared to Phalcon, easier and more secure to maintain because it's not made in C.
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<tac_> Lua is notable for being one of the easier languages to sandbox
<ollehar> or maybe it's better called a lua web framework, implemented in OCaml
<tac_> If you really want to stuff your configuration files with logic, then Lua isn't the world's worst choice.
<tac_> (Although probably not the best, either)
* companion_cube wants a web framework in prolog embedded into forth
<companion_cube> :>
<ollehar> tac_: yeah, I already did it with my project tonesoftales.com (programming multiplayer games online)
<nicoo> tac_: Yes, but having to call through the Lua intepreter every time you need to dispatch a query doesn't sound so great, performance-wise
<tac_> companion_cube: insufficiently metacircular. Please embed a web framework in the web.
<companion_cube> the web is my framework !!!
<Drup> ollehar: and why not just do it in ocaml ?
<ollehar> nicoo: compared to other scripting lanugage (php, python, ruby, perl), it might still be good.
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<ollehar> Drup: because it's impossible, it seems, to convince web folks to start to use reasonable languages ;)
<Drup> ollehar: they will still need to write some real code ...
<Drup> I really, really don't see the point.
<Drup> if it's just for the sake "look, it's not a completly alien language, you can script it with lua!"
<Drup> then, no, I won't allocate any time ever to do it
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<ollehar> Drup: oh no, say it's a lua framework made in ocaml
<Drup> (especially since we can almost script ocsigen configuration in ocaml now)
<ollehar> Drup: really?
<Drup> (the pull-request is not yet merged, but it's almost ready)
<Drup> dinosaure did a great job on this
<Drup> (that reminds me I should review this pull request ...)
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<sagotch> (Note: if someone else looks for llvm_{first/next/last/prev}_* function, one day, it actually IS in binding and generated by DEFINE_ITERATORS macro)
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<Mike-Jr> Hi, I have ocamlfind installed , but when building my project, I get "ocamlfind not found"
<Mike-Jr> any idea?
<Kakadu> wrong PATHs
<Mike-Jr> how to set the path?
<Drup> Mike-Jr: do you use opam ?
<Mike-Jr> yes
<Drup> read the opam instalation instruction again, carefully :)
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<Mike-Jr> you mean, installing a package using opam?
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<ggole> Did you install ocamlfind via opam?
<Mike-Jr> yes
<Mike-Jr> as I remember
<ggole> Did you do eval `opam config env` as it (should have) instructed?
<Drup> Mike-Jr: you probably forgot to add "eval `opam config env`" to your bashrc
<Mike-Jr> I have
<ggole> OK, good: now are you building your project in that environment? eg, a bash shell.
<Mike-Jr> and I can invoke ocamlfind in command line
<Mike-Jr> yes
<ggole> Seems likely to be an environment visibility problem, eg, the bashrc is not being used to set the environment of your desktop
<Mike-Jr> how I can check it?
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<Drup> ooh, it's only when building
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<Drup> Mike-Jr: if you are using oasis, do a distclean
<Mike-Jr> distclean, not setup-clean. Is that right?
<Drup> "make distclean"
<Drup> (or pass -distclean to the setup)
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<Mike-Jr> It looks that this error disappeared. Thanks. Now I have to deal with other error ;)
<Drup> so, the reason is that, during configure, oasis will register the path to ocamlfind and ocaml and so on
<Drup> and if it changes, oasis will not pick it up, until you do a distclean and run configure again
<Mike-Jr> Thanks for the information
<ggole> Why does it do that? PATH not good enough?
<ggole> Or is this to support the same build while the user opam switches around?
<Drup> It's posterior to opam by quite a few years
<Drup> don't ask me why it does it that way, I have no idea, and I don't really want to know :p
* ggole nods
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<nicoo> Drup: anterior*
<Drup> hum, right.
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<Denommus> is there any parser combinator library for OCaml like parsec, or should I stick with sedlex + ocamlyacc?
<companion_cube> you should stick with sedlex + menhir ;)
<Drup> (there are parser combinators library, but you should stick with parser generators :D)
<smondet> in case you still want parser combinators, I tried this one once: https://bitbucket.org/cakeplus/mparser
<Denommus> oh, I didn't know about menhir
<smondet> it did the job :)
<Denommus> but why using generators over combinators?
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<Drup> two orders of magnitude more efficient and the gramar is more self contained
<Denommus> ok, thank you all
<dmbaturin> What is a parser combinator?
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<Kakadu> dmbaturin: function which take input and returns AST
<Kakadu> combinators 'combine' these funcitons into big parser
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<Denommus> dmbaturin: a function from parsers to parser
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<Denommus> how do I specify in oasis that I want to build a module with menhir instead of ocamlyacc?
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<dmbaturin> https://bpaste.net/show/c7d00bf179db Trying to use menhir, getting a circular build error. What is wrong with the code?
<jpdeplaix> dmbaturin: « open Lexer » « open Parser » that's it
<jpdeplaix> you should only use the Lexer in the Parser not the opposite
<jpdeplaix> and of course if you use both, you have a circular build
<Denommus> hm, anyone using sedlex with menhir? How to pass the result of my lexer to my parser?
<dmbaturin> jpdeplaix: True, I goofed out. Thanks!
<jpdeplaix> Denommus: With « Parser.main Lexer.main filebuf »
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<Denommus> jpdeplaix: uh, how does sedlex generate Lexer.main?
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<whitequark> let main lexbuf = match%sedlex lexbuf with ...
<Denommus> whitequark: ok, what should be the type signature for main?
<jpdeplaix> I don't know about sedlex. I though it was a separated question. Sorry
<whitequark> Sedlexing.lexbuf -> token
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<Denommus> whitequark: ok, but Sedlexing.lexbuf from the lexer is not compatible with Lexing.lefbuf from the parser generated by manhir
<Denommus> s/manhir/menhir/
<whitequark> hrm
<whitequark> interesting
<whitequark> there was something to make ulex work with menhir, let me find it
<whitequark> oh right.
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<jpdeplaix> sedlex looks great
<Denommus> whitequark: hm
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<companion_cube> anyone else using the "system" switch on opam having troubles using camlp4?
<Denommus> whitequark: ok, I understand what that is doing, but I don't understand how to use it
<whitequark> Denommus: let me find an example with ulex, it's same with sedlex
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<Denommus> whitequark: oh, I had to add menhirLib to BuildDepends on my executable
<Denommus> whitequark: but there's something more. I need to have a Parser.Token * Lexing.position * Lexing.position
<jpdeplaix> dmbaturin: in fact it is the opposite, my bad.
<jpdeplaix> need to sleep. \o
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<Denommus> whitequark: did it
<whitequark> Denommus: oops, I got distracted
<whitequark> glad you solved it
<Denommus> whitequark: no prob
<Denommus> whitequark: I just had to produce the triple with Lexing.dummy_pos, because it's not important
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<dmbaturin> How do I make mehnir emit more useful error messages rather than "syntax error"?
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<whitequark> paging def`
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