adrien changed the topic of #ocaml to: Discussions about the OCaml programming language | http://www.ocaml.org and http://caml.inria.fr | http://ocaml.org/releases/4.02.0.html | Public channel logs at http://irclog.whitequark.org/ocaml
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<dmbaturin> Or that 'a in this case is the second argument in a curried function with no return, the one we use in "raise Something something"?
<whitequark> no, 'a is the return value
<whitequark> since raise never returns, you can unify its return value (which is called "bottom", type-theoretically) with anything
<whitequark> unify the type of its return value
<dmbaturin> I guess I should learn more about type theory.
<whitequark> "bottom" is just a type which has no values at all
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<dmbaturin> whitequark: Do you remember of any good introduction to it?
<dmbaturin> Seems I can make an exn -> exn function. I wonder if it has any use.
<whitequark> exn is just an open type.
<whitequark> there is nothing special about it.
<whitequark> make your own: type exn = .. ;; type exn += Not_found ;;
<dmbaturin> Open type?
<whitequark> (you couldn't raise values of it (not without Obj.magic), but otherwise it looks and feels exactly like true exn)
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<whitequark> tl;dr a variant type which you can extend in other modules
<whitequark> extend as in add new constructors without creating a new type
<dmbaturin> Ah, interesting.
<whitequark> to match over those constructors, they have to be in scope. etc
<dmbaturin> Is it included in 4.02?
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<whitequark> yes
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<dmbaturin> Since I'm using opam now, guess I should install 4.02 and use the switch feature.
<dmbaturin> Also, the versioning seems strange. What changes made the mantainers increase it to 4 from 3?
<whitequark> I think it was GADTs
<whitequark> wrt your exn->exn function: it just maps a value to a value
<whitequark> the value incidentally can be thrown around, but it doesn't matter here at all
<nicoo> https://github.com/ocaml/ocaml/commit/627dda3c43e734521a1f84a3ddaebc2ced38fc5a -> Yes, type _ t will work for n-ary type constructors \o/
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<Drup> dmbaturin: look at the type of "let rec f () = f ()"
<Drup> and try to understand why :p
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<zRecursive> val f : unit -> 'a = <fun>
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<ygrek> anybody knows what is the correct url?
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<Drup> nice !
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<flux> I suppose someone did something or ygrek's url started to work automagically
<flux> nice to see that, I had alraedy forgotten all the nice cool features ;-)
<flux> starting from the unified matching on values and exceptions
<adrien> that one is probably the main reason I want to be able to use 4.02 :P
<adrien> I'm keeping compat a couple years back)
<whitequark> compatibility is for losers #yolo
<flux> simply write a camlp4 module that convers your new code back to old one
<adrien> I use the system's ocaml
<adrien> so not much choice there
<Drup> yeah, I had a realization a couple of month ago
<flux> at work I wanted to use llpp
<flux> it's a nice less-like pdf reader
<Drup> "but, when I'm writing a website, I don't give a fuck about the user's ocaml system. I can just use the bleedling edge one"
<whitequark> its build process is completely deranged though
<flux> git cloned it, saw that it wants the mupdf (or whatwasit), ok, I'll get that
<flux> but when it got to the ocaml 4.02 requirement, I decided I can spend my time more efficiently :)
<flux> whitequark, that too
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<whitequark> I mean, apart from the "let's put all code into a single 6kloc file)
<flux> and the author is decidedly anti-opam as well I think ;)
<whitequark> bad for them *shrug*
<Drup> whitequark: that's very bunzliesque :3
<adrien> mupdf'ss build process is the most deranged bit
<whitequark> Drup: you see, bunzli's code is quite well readable
<Drup> Oh, I didn't say anything about that :p
<whitequark> the main good thing about llpp is how fast it is
<whitequark> perhaps the only one
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<def`> I once wrote a clean build system for llpp
<def`> … maybe I should publish it, but the rest of the code, is… *brrrrr*
<whitequark> def`: I tried to do it for opam
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<nojb> How do I make ocamlbuild link in some stub C code into a ocaml library consisting of a single ocaml file foo.ml ?
<nojb> or, better, how do I do it without ocamlbuild, just using the command line ?
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<whitequark> pass it to ocamlc
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<nojb> pass the .o to ocamlc ?
<whitequark> .c
<whitequark> oh wait, that wouldn't work for bytecode
<whitequark> one moment
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<nojb> yes, it works if you pass -custom
<nojb> Thanks!
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<whitequark> well, yes, that's one way to do it
<whitequark> alternatively you can pass foo.ml and foo_stubs.o to ocamlmklib
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<nojb> is it possible to link the c code directly into a .cmo ?
<whitequark> no
<whitequark> all native code in ocaml resides in .o files (even for ocamlopt; .cmx files describe their neighboring .o files)
<nojb> what about .cma/.cmxa ?
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<nojb> I am asking because I dont want to have to link in the stubs to the *users* of my library
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<axiles> nojb: you have to create a .clib file
<whitequark> .cma and .cmxa are mere concatenations of .cmo and .cmx files
<whitequark> not literal concatenations, but almost
<axiles> and the add linking flags in myocamlbuild.ml
<nojb> axiles: thanks, I will try that
<nojb> whitequark: thanks again - I think I have enough to try some things for now.
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<Drup> madroach: hum, didn't realize calling make that way would be an issue
<Drup> It was mostly out of lazyness, in fact, since it's calling setup.exe after
<Drup> I'll fix tyxml package on the next release
<Drup> (note that this remark is valid for all oasis package, not only tyxml)
<madroach> tyxml is not the only package. Other packages need the environment variable MAKE=GMAKE set.
<Drup> yeah, basically all oasis packages calling ./configure directly
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<madroach> is symlinkng make->gmake a bad idea?
<Drup> I don't know.
<madroach> how do you plan to fix it? use $(MAKE) ?
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<Drup> No, just replace the call to "./configure" by "setup.exe --configure"
<Drup> (or "ocaml setup.ml --configure", whatever)
<Drup> It's not actually using make, make is just a proxy, look at tyxml's makefile, it will be pretty obvious.
<Drup> it will not solve the problem for all packages, just for tyxml. I didn't it may cause issues, so I didn't really cared, but I can fix it locally, so I should as well do :p
<Drup> didn't know*
<madroach> yep, I see.
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<Drup> hum, I have a fishy behavior
<Drup> some stuff using metaquot that triggers "File "_none_", line 1: Warning 11: this match case is unused.", but if I remove it, it doesn't work anymore.
<Drup> ah, nevermind, found it
<Drup> whitequark: there is still an issue with location reporting for metaquot
<whitequark> yes
<whitequark> I haven't fixed it
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<hugomg> hello, does anyone know if its possible to get a more descriptive error message from opam when it fails to install something? When I try to "opam install ctypes" it just says that "The dependency base-bytes of package ctypes.0.3.3 is not available for your compiler or your OS.". I have no idea if the problem is my OS or my compiler version or something else :/
<adrien> and what are they?
<hugomg> I'm using the system compiler version (4.01.0) and my OS is debian linux 64 bits
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<def`> hugomg: hmm can you try with an opam managed compiler?
<hugomg> I think I could but then I would have to wait an hour for everything to compile
<hugomg> well, lets tell it to start then...
<adrien> nah, the ocaml compiler is a quick build
<Drup> hugomg: one hour ? on what machin are you doing that ? :D
<adrien> one hour would be a P3 500MHz probably ;-)
<hugomg> you are right, I was thinking that last time it took 30min - 1hour to install everything but thats because I installed a bunch of libs in addition to the compiler
<adrien> on that topic, I hate Qt (even more)
<def`> hugomg: remember to change .opam/config if you want multicore builds
<hugomg> good idea. Ill check that out
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<Drup> (or pass -j)
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<hugomg> stupid question: will the -j option work inside a VM as well?
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<adrien> worst case, it doesn't get faster because each of the n processes get 1/n of a cpu
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<hugomg> now its saying that ctypes is compatible, woot! Is it the different compiler version or could it have been some library conflict (I had previously installed core and a bunch of other stuff)
<hugomg> ?
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<dmbaturin> Drup: Back to the yesterday review, do you think the records should have a constructor or it's not a good practice? I.e. MyRecord {...} vs {...}
<def`> hugomg: problem importing constraints from the outside world (system managed compiler) I think
<dmbaturin> Also, I eliminated the external tokens, and the whole library dependencies thing in oasis became unnecessary, along with custom flags; and DevFiles stuff started to work as expected.
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<hugomg> thanks a lot def`, now I just need to wait 30 minutes (hopefully 15) to reinstall all my stuff :)
<def`> good luck :]
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<Pepe_> !
<Pepe_> I'm having some difficulties with opam. core doesn't compile so I reported the bug, there's a patch on the issue so I want to use it.
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<Pepe_> For that I created a local repo, with core.111.28.00, and added 'patches: [ "111.28.arch.patch" ]', plus added the file in the 'files' dir
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<Pepe_> after $ opam-admin check && opam-admin build -g core , I can see my patch in the generated archive (tar tvf archives/core.111.28.00+opam.tar.gz | grep patch), but it says "patch not found" when I try to install the package
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<Pepe_> (and in fact it is not is the build dir, ~/.opam/system/build/...)
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<Pepe_> *in
<Drup> dmbaturin: no constructor, it's pointles
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<dmbaturin> Drup: That's what I thought.
<dmbaturin> Also, in List.fold_left (fun x y -> ...) x is the accumulator and y is the list item, right?
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<Drup> look at the signature, I never remember
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<dmbaturin> ('a -> 'b -> 'a) -> 'a -> 'b list -> 'a
<dmbaturin> Looks like that. I think I can use just fold now and get rid of the map that extracts rule weights.
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<def`> fold_left, accumulator on the left, fold_right accumulator on the right
<def`> though I would prefer if accumulator always was on the right :)
<dmbaturin> Sometimes I still forget that I can lookup the type signature by just typing the function name in top level. :)
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<Pepe_> Drup: any idea by chance?
<Drup> I don't know about the issue
<Drup> but you can do simpler
<Pepe_> Yeah it's not about the issue, just that I didn't manage to patch the package
<Drup> fetch core in some directory, apply the patch and use opam pin on the directory
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<Drup> no need to bother with a custop repository and all that
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<Pepe_> well, I thought it could be useful if it were to happen again
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<Pepe_> Drup: thanks, it seems to work :)
<Drup> opam pin is love, spread it x)
<Pepe_> What would you use a local repo for then?
<Drup> nothing
<Pepe_> heh
<Drup> oh, compiler s!
<Drup> you can't pin compilers.
<Drup> (very annoying)
<Pepe_> Ok
<dmbaturin> Compilers are exempt from love? ;)
<Drup> considering the license of OCaml that prevents major open source fork of the compiler to be distributed by people not in the ocaml consortium, pretty much, yes.
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<Pepe_> They don't want competition? :o
<Drup> (yes, this license is insane)
<Pepe_> Didn't know there were such a thing
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<dmbaturin> I wonder what influenced that choice.
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<Drup> I think it goes back to MoscowML, which was a fork of CamlLight and they clame a bunch of stuff, so the core team decided to use this weird license to prevent that
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<dmbaturin> What's wrong with forlking CamlLight?
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<dmbaturin> * forking
<Drup> you might want to ask people who were not in diapers at the time, so not me x)
<dmbaturin> Also, I thought MoscowML was an SML compiler.
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<Drup> Caml Light is not much more than SML
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<dmbaturin> Hhm, the CamlLight book from INRIA website made me think it's essentially a subset of ocaml.
<Drup> well, SML is also a subset of OCaml, the syntax differences are minimal
<dmbaturin> Those differences are pretty superficial, but my attemtps to write SML never work from the first try. :)
<Drup> of course ^^'
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<dmbaturin> Drup: Also, you recommended to replace https://github.com/dmbaturin/cfgen/blob/master/src/grammar.ml#L88-L95 with fold. How do I do it if those functions are mutually recursive?
<Drup> actually, if you replace by a buffer, you can probably just do an iter
<dmbaturin> I was thinking of making it multipass, but that requires keeping state between calls and an exception to break out of a loop (or checking if all nonterminals are gone for exit condition, which is hardly better).
<dmbaturin> Replace by a Buffer?
<Drup> instead of concatening strings
<Leonidas> is there a way to pass an option type as value to a function that takes an optional value?
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<Drup> Leonidas: ?foo:(my_option)
<Drup> (instead of ~foo)
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<Leonidas> Drup: looks exactly like what I was looking for, thanks!
<dmbaturin> Drup: I don't understand how it helps with mutual recursion.
<dmbaturin> Drup: Also, do you think the Rule (lhs, rhs) should be a record too, or better leave it as a tuple?
<Drup> depends on your taste and how much you access the field
<Drup> I would remove most of the alias though, except the one that are used in signatures directly, but you'll see those when you write the mli
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<dmbaturin> At the moment this is all I have in types: https://bpaste.net/show/d4d34fd49771
<Drup> and symbol ?
<dmbaturin> Yep.
<Drup> in all cases, a record is better than a constructor
<Drup> a constructor is really just unecessary overhead, both in code and performances
<dmbaturin> Guess I'll make it a record then and leave symbol the only variant there.
<dmbaturin> Also, making rule_rhs a record allowed me to remove a number of SLOCs.
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<dmbaturin> On a side note, I really like ' allowed in names. It saves quite some time making up silly names like foo_tmp.
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<dmbaturin> Sadly it's not allowed in menhir named nonterminals though.
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<nrlucaroni> \0000000k\\\pi-=p0k,0------------------------------
<nrlucaroni> opps. sorry, primate did that.
<nrlucaroni> baby primate.
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<dmbaturin> nrlucaroni: That should be a valid perl program. ;)
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