ChanServ changed the topic of #ocaml to: Discussions about the OCaml programming language | http://caml.inria.fr/ | http://www.ocaml.org | OCaml 4.01.0 announce at http://bit.ly/1851A3R | Logs at http://irclog.whitequark.org/ocaml
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<orbitz> I wish exceptions in Async had more information taht was useful
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<Sizur> is there a lib of modules that mimic haskell's monoids, functors, applicatives, monads, arrows, lenses, etc?
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<Drup> Sizur: since those need HKT, and ocaml doesn't have them, no.
<Sizur> Drup: i dont understand why we need HKT when module system is more general than typeclasses.
<ggole> modules can do it, but they get pretty verbose
<Drup> 1) Sizur: module system is not "more general" than typeclasses, it's "as" general
<Sizur> so verbosity gets ugly enough that it makes no sense to do it?
<Drup> 2) Sizur : Imagine having typeclasses but no HKT, how do you do this stuff ? :)
<Sizur> Drup: i don't know HKT, but I can imagine implementing all of the above with some additional tieing verbosity by users -- that is just lacking overloading basically
<Drup> how, right :)
<Drup> HKT is what allows you to be polymorphic in the "container" type, so "Monad m => int m -> int list m" need HKT
<Drup> you can "emulate" HKT with ocaml's functors, but it's a huge PITA, as ggole said.
<Drup> heh, I use reverse type notation a la ocaml, sorry =')
<Sizur> Drup: right, but you can do the same thing modules, the only difference is one additional line tieing the impl module
<Drup> yeah, you """can"""
<Sizur> ok, so the take away is it's not worth it
<ggole> Various people have written monad libraries for OCaml, so perhaps they think it is worth it
<Sizur> yeah, i've noticed a few, and thought why it's not standardised
<Sizur> seems like it should me
<Sizur> be
<Sizur> is there any effort going on similar to what java did with interfaces?
<Sizur> i mean defining a whole slew of standard module sigs
<Drup> Sizur: you can read that http://www.lpw25.net/flops2014.pdf
<Drup> Sizur: the thing is, we might have HKT at some point, so nobody is going to want to include anything in the standard library while we don't know if we might have it or not :p
<Sizur> does "some point" have a limit? i wonder if something provisional is worth the trouble or not
<Drup> not that I know of :p
<Sizur> but also the standard module sigs are not limited to haskell abstractions. copying what java has in FP way seems very beneficial even without haskell's stuff
<Sizur> i'm inquiring because i'm considering using Mirage for production
<Sizur> and that's by gateway into ocaml
<Sizur> my*
<ggole> Yeah, things are pretty ad hoc. Even basic things like OrderedType are defined on a module-by-module basis.
<Sizur> ouch :(
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<ggole> Structural typing makes this less of a problem than you might think though
<ggole> ...at least, as long as everybody takes care to meet the specification
<Sizur> but you could depend on a standard module sig and it would be exponentially better
<Sizur> that's when the promise of modularity would finally realise imo
* Sizur realizes he might not be aware of implication of "structural typing"
<ggole> Take module String in the stdlib: it doesn't formally declare that it meets OrderedType or HashedType, it just defines the necessary bits
<ggole> So you can do Map.Make(String) or Hashtbl.Make(String) without any further fuss
<Sizur> there is no conceivable use of Map.Make and Hashtbl.Make for anything else than String?
<ggole> Er, what?
<ggole> You can use Map.Make with any module that meets the signature
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<Sizur> ah, now i understand what you meant by that syntax.
* Sizur needs some practice with ocaml
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<Sizur> Drup: thanks for the paper link!
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<elspru_> how do I set batteries namespace?
<elspru_> so don't have to constantly write BatInt and can just do Int or something.
<whitequark> elspru_: module Int = BatInt, etc
<whitequark> you can even put that in a module called MyPervasives or something and pass -open MyPervasives to ocamlc
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<elspru_> oh okay
<elspru_> I'm having issue with some pattern matching, tells me that "pattern expected"
<elspru_> let rec fileStringList xs = match xs with | x :: xs` -> (load_file x) : (fileConcat xs`) ;;
<acieroid> elspru_: don't use ` in variable names (' works though)
<elspru_> okay cool, I think that worked. tells me pattern matching not exhaustive so I added | [] -> "" but it gives me error
<elspru_> op I got it
<elspru_> cool [] -> []
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<elspru_> Error: This expression has type 'a -> 'a -> bool but an expression was expected of type ('b -> 'b -> bool) option
<elspru_> ?
<elspru_> how do I make it have the () stuff
<mrvn> you make it an option
<elspru_> ?
<mrvn> Use None or Some x
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<elspru_> right now it is : let notEqualString str mat = if compare str mat = 0 then false else true ;;
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<mrvn> let notEqualStringOpt = Some notEqualString
<elspru_> k i'll try that
<elspru_> cool thanks :-)
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<elspru_> hmmm, for some reason it's not working, only outputing the last two non unique ones.
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<elspru_> oh i get it, because at least one other was not same. hmmm
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<elspru_> so I'm thinking of producing a list of tuples, where each has a word, and the number of occurences of that word in the list.
<elspru_> do you think I could do that with BatMap?
<mrvn> why not a hashtbl?
<elspru_> that sounds good to :-)
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<def`> cd
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<elspru_> is there are increment function in ocaml?
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<mrvn> incr
<mrvn> but wether replacing an int with the next or incrementing a ref is better you have to test
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<elspru_> hmmm how do I make a list from a hashtable?
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<mrvn> List.iter Hashtbl.add?
<madroach> Other way round use Hashtbl.fold (fun key value l -> (key,value) :: l) htable []
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<Drup> elspru_: "open Batteries"
<Drup> (beware : it will shadow stdlib's modules)
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<SethTisue> hi, I'm on Mac OS X 10.9, I did "brew install ocaml" and "brew install opam" and set up opam, and I'm now I'm trying to do "opam install utop", but I get this error: https://gist.github.com/SethTisue/f99fcb80ffa639951d18
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<SethTisue> any insight? bear in mind I'm completely new to OCaml. I was hoping to use utop as I start working my way through Real World OCaml
<SethTisue> I did find this: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/24865657/installing-camomile-via-opam-fails-due-to-missing-patch-file-how-can-i-fix-this but it seems a little hard to believe that there isn't some better solution
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<smondet> SethTIsue: what's your `make --version`?
<SethTisue> GNU Make 3.81
<smondet> ok, so that's not the problem …
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<smondet> SethTIsue: I have camomile/utop on OSX 10.9 compiled an working, the only difference I see is that I am not using the `system` compiler
<smondet> so maybe `opam switch 4.01.0` let it compile and try again (?)
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<smondet> (your gist says "Applying cmxs.patch." so the issue is not the same as the stackoverflow one)
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<elspru_> why aren't there toString functions for everything?
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<elspru_> it's so hard to tell what's going on, if can't convert it to string.
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<bernardo1pc> maybe you really want a printer (to use with #install_printer on the toplevel while debugging)
<bernardo1pc> (and toString a binary tree is visually useless, most of the time :)
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<elspru_> it's most hashtables and such
<elspru_> i'll try the printer
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<elspru_> it tells me wrong type of argument for directive #install_printer
<elspru_> what argument does it need?
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<SethTisue> smondet: sorry, got distracted. I'll try that now
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<madroach> elspru_: a function channel -> Hashtbl.t -> ()
<madroach> elspru_: Are you using batteries included?
<SethTisue> smondet: `opam switch 4.01.0` failed with:
<SethTisue> # File "generators/odoc_todo.ml", line 16, characters 0-14:
<SethTisue> # Error: Unbound module Odoc_info
<SethTisue> ah, I found this: https://www.mail-archive.com/pld-cvs-commit@lists.pld-linux.org/msg291549.html and yeah, `make -j1` instead of just plain `make` fixes it
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<SethTisue> what's weird is that change already seems to be here: https://github.com/pld-linux/ocaml-camomile/commit/2ca02a02cad8cf56de82e6bcdbe0f72049a7cc34
<SethTisue> oh, I guess that's in a pld-linux repo, not in a more generally used repo
<SethTisue> I guess I should report this at https://github.com/yoriyuki/Camomile/issues ?
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<SethTisue> `MAKEFLAGS=-j1 opam install camomile` ftw
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<johnf> Hi, I'm trying to sort out camlp4 and I found this file Camlp4Ast.mlast any hints on what a mlast file is for?
<avsm> gasche: there?
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<Anarchos> gasche is that you that linked an article on lambda-the-ultimate about Blelloch ?
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<artagnon> How do I "try foo with Not_found -> bar" where I have a function to coerce foo's type to bar's type?
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<artagnon> Basically, I want the try to return [] on success, not the value of foo.
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<Kakadu> try ignore (foo); [] with ...
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<artagnon> kakadu: Thanks!
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<dav> what's the community feeling re ocaml-java? I'm not an ocaml user at this time but this could be a game changer for me..
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<smondet> dav: did you see this: https://github.com/struktured/ocamljava-maven-plugin ?
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<dav> smondet: cool!
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<dav> smondet: do you know if there's a sweeter way to call java than Java.call/make ? (from http://www.ocamljava.org/files/doc/manual/javaext.html)
<smondet> dav: as far as I understood, call and make are what you use to create yourown “sweet” bindings
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<dav> smondet: that means having to write proxy for every class when a reasonable default could actually be autogenerated (clojure has reasonable java interop)..
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