ChanServ changed the topic of #ocaml to: Discussions about the OCaml programming language | http://caml.inria.fr/ | http://www.ocaml.org | OCaml 4.01.0 announce at http://bit.ly/1851A3R | Logs at http://irclog.whitequark.org/ocaml
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<Denommus> hm, is it possible to write a JVM language in OCaml?
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<rgrinberg> Denommus: why shouldn't it be? just output .class files
<pjdelport> Asking whether it's possible probably isn't very meaningful: everything is *possible*. :)
<pjdelport> Whether it's easy or recommended probably depends on what exactly you want to do.
<rgrinberg> pretty sure ocaml-java is written in ocaml so there's even a good example of how to do it
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<Denommus> I want to know if it's *feasible*. If there's a library for that and etc.
<Denommus> in an ideal world, I'd be able to make a Android-compatible toy language
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<boegel|work> Drup: I do have a 'threads' directory with stuff in it in <prefix>/lib/ocaml, does that simply mean OCaml isn't available to find these libraries? do I need to set some additional environment variable to tell it where stuff is? this OCaml installaiton is installed to a non-standard prefix
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<boegel|work> I don't think OPAM (as suggested by Kakadu) is a solution compatible with our approach of installing software through environment modules (I'm installing OCaml on an HPC system)
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<whitequark> Denommus: there's probably some bytecode emission code in ocamljava
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<boegel|work> adrien: configure output seems to suggest the threads like is indeed installed: https://gist.github.com/boegel/bd4f7b903498fae02bc3
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<adrien_oww> boegel|work: in a toplevel, type:
<adrien_oww> #use "topfind";;
<adrien_oww> #threads;;
<adrien_oww> (verbatim)
<adrien_oww> does it work?
<boegel|work> adrien_oww: what do you mean with "in a toplevel"?
<adrien> run the command "ocaml"
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<boegel|work> adrien: ok, it's reinstalling now after I made some changes
<adrien> ok
* boegel|work also discovered that OCaml wasn't being built with the Intel compilers as he was trying to, and added the -cc configure option too
<adrien> any reason not to use gcc?
<adrien> only the bytecode interpreter's speed might change
<boegel|work> adrien: we usually build everything with Intel compilers
<adrien> and I don't think it's very sensitive to that
<adrien> ok
<adrien> main thing to do is to increase -O to -O2
<adrien> it's not doable easily
<boegel|work> adrien: OCaml is just part of an entire stack of software I'm working on, as a dependency to pparser which is a dependency for QIIME
* adrien stares at nicoo
<boegel|work> adrien: -O == -O2 in GCC imho
<adrien> -O is -O1 in gcc
<boegel|work> adrien: # #use "topfind";;
<boegel|work> Cannot find file topfind.
<adrien> you need ocamlfind installed for that
<adrien> alternatively
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<boegel|work> adrien: hah, you're right -O is equivalent to -O1, I always figured it was -O2
<adrien> try
<boegel|work> adrien: what's worse though is that the default is -O0 is you don't specify anything, which is just bonkers
<adrien> run: ocaml -I +threads
<adrien> then
<adrien> #load "threads.cma";;
<adrien> (it should say "reference to undefined global")
<adrien> boegel|work: yeah, autotools' configure defaults to -O2 -g however :)
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<boegel|work> adrien: yeah, ok, but if you use the compiler directly, you need to be well aware of that...
<adrien> yeah, definitely :)
<boegel|work> adrien: # #load "threads.cmm";;
<boegel|work> Cannot find file threads.cmm.
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<adrien> cma
<adrien> not cmm
<boegel|work> oh
<boegel|work> Error: Reference to undefined global `Unix'
<boegel|work> so that seems OK now
<adrien> ok, so you have it installed for sure
<boegel|work> adrien: ok, so why can't ocamlfind find it?
<adrien> well, install ocamlfind now :)
<adrien> (by hand too)
<boegel|work> adrien: I already have that
<adrien> from what?
<boegel|work> adrien: it just wasn't loaded before
<boegel|work> adrien: built myself
<adrien> after your current ocaml installation
<adrien> ?
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<boegel|work> adrien: let me rebuild it
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<boegel|work> adrien: right now, "ocamlfind list" is spitting out "Config file not found"
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<adrien> yeah, you need to remove it and install it again
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<boegel|work> ok
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<Unhammer> "ocamlfind … -w s"
<Unhammer> what's s?
<adrien> unused I think
<adrien> s/think/guess/
<adrien> see "man ocamlc"
<mrvn> What's currently the best in ocaml to download http and parse html?
<adrien> mrvn: ocamlnet
<adrien> s is not unused but basically when you call #connect, it returns an id
<adrien> which you can use to disconnect
<adrien> but most of the time you ignore it
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<mrvn> adrien: thx. I will try that.
<Unhammer> man ocamlc only showed numbers
<Unhammer> aha
<Unhammer> thanks
<adrien> :)
<Unhammer> does that mean libs can add new warning types?
<adrien> no
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<Unhammer> heh ok
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<boegel|work> adrien: seems like the threads aspect is working now, I think the main issue was that $CAML_LD_LIBRARY_PATH wasn't set
<boegel|work> adrien: alongside using a non-standard installation prefix
<boegel|work> adrien: thanks for your help
<adrien> boegel|work: you should be able to do everything through ocamlfind
<adrien> it can find everything you need to compile
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<adrien> (from compiler to libraries)
<boegel|work> adrien: I'm just using the Makefile provided by pplacer, which does indeed use ocamlfind, yeah
<adrien> should have handled everything the first time, hmmm
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<boegel|work> adrien: I said *seems* solved since I'm running into a different issue now, which may or may not hide the threads issue
<adrien> hah :D
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<boegel|work> adrien: ok, it's getting further than it did before, so the threads issue must be resolved
<boegel|work> adrien: I'm now running into this: "Error: Unbound module Batteries"
<adrien_oww> how does it build?
<adrien_oww> you have the commandline?
<boegel|work> adrien_oww: sure, hold on
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<boegel|work> adrien_oww: batteries is not listed in the output of "ocamlfind list"
<boegel|work> don't know if that's normal
<adrien> you need to have it installed
<adrien_oww> but how come your paste doesn't mention it on the command-line?
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<boegel|work> adrien_oww: dunno, broken makefile?
<adrien_oww> likely :)
<boegel|work> adrien_oww: this doesn't look good though: $ ocamlfind batteries/ocaml
<boegel|work> ocamlfind: Package `batteries' not found
<boegel|work> adrien_oww: is batteries a separate library?
<adrien> yes
<adrien> and that's not you run ocamlfind btw
<adrien> first, find alist of all dependencies
<boegel|work> adrien: ah, ok, I stole than from
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<adrien> "ocamlfind list", "ocamlfind query library-name"
<boegel|work> adrien: $ ocamlfind query batteries
<boegel|work> ocamlfind: Package `batteries' not found
<boegel|work> :)
<adrien> I had never seen that syntax; it seems to be recognized but I don't know how it behaves
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<boegel|work> adrien: is there a way to specify an install prefix to "ocamlfind install" ?
<boegel|work> adrien: -destdir?
<adrien> man ocamlfind
<adrien> go to the bottom of the manpage
<boegel|work> the Makefile of batteries doesn't support it though >_<
<adrien> it doesn't need to
<adrien> there are environment variables
* boegel|work searches
<boegel|work> ok, $OCAMLFIND_DESTDIR, got it, thanks
<boegel|work> adrien: is ocamlfind only required when building OCaml programs, or also at runtime?
<adrien> building
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<vbmithr_> Hi
<vbmithr_> Have an issue with OPAM
<vbmithr_> I can't tune the solver pref so that the latest version of a package is installed
<vbmithr_> for example I have
<vbmithr_> OPAMUPGRADECRITERIA=-notuptodate
<vbmithr_> OPAMCRITERA=-notuptodate
<vbmithr_> [vb@nerenyi ~/code/mirage-skeleton/stackv4]% opam install cohttp
<vbmithr_> The following actions will be performed: - install cohttp.0.9.2
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<whitequark> oh hi vbmithr_
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<vbmithr_> hi :)
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<whitequark> (nice gravatar)
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<vbmithr_> it's from bakemonogatari
<jpdeplaix> he knows I think :DD
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<whitequark> vbmithr_: yea, Senjougahara Hitagi, I know :p
<vbmithr_> Could not have guessed it
<vbmithr_> I'm not clairvoyant like jpdeplaix
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<jpdeplaix> vbmithr_: it just that I follow him on twitter :)
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<vbmithr_> I don't do twitter. Not seen this yet :)
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<AltGr> vbmithr_, what version of aspcud ?
<AltGr> -notuptodate will minimise the number of packages not at their latest version
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<AltGr> if you want it more targetted, you can try -notuptodate(request) which will do it specifically for packages mentionned in the request
<AltGr> or `opam install package=VERSION` if you know the version and just want to be sure, that'd work as well
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<def`> I must say I have no idea what to suggest in this case, nor why opam did that
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<def`> Ok, thank you. I'll point that out.
<AltGr> there were a few such issues but they have all been fixed
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<def`> Not in 1.1.1 but in the upcoming 1.2?
<whitequark> could I use 1.2 features in opam-repository immediately after 1.2 release?
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<vbmithr_> AltGr: 1.9.1 (aspcud)
<vbmithr_> `opam install package=VERSION`: I know that but when I install tons on package in one go I'd like them last version
<AltGr> whitequark, yes, we'll make sure it's possible
<AltGr> with 1.9 the -notuptodate(requested) should work
<AltGr> "request" sorry
<vbmithr_> yep
<vbmithr_> But just -notuptodate should have suffice
<vbmithr_> I was installing only one package
<vbmithr_> Anyway, I'll open a PR if this happens again
<whitequark> AltGr: I've sort of moved to opam-only workflow
<vbmithr_> omg
<vbmithr_> I have ocamlfind 1.3.3 installed
<vbmithr_> instead of 1.5.2
<vbmithr_> are you sure the opam criteria are actually working ?
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<whitequark> vbmithr_: are you asking me?
<vbmithr_> not really
<vbmithr_> from a fresh opam, when doing an opam install mirage
<vbmithr_> opam HEAD, aspcud 1.9.1
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<vbmithr_> The suggestion is to install ocamlfind.1.4.1
<vbmithr_> OPAMUPGRADECRITERIA=-notuptodate
<vbmithr_> OPAMCRITERA=-notuptodate
<vbmithr_> I don't know where I should report this
<vbmithr_> oops
<vbmithr_> mmh, ok
<vbmithr_> I made a typo.
<vbmithr_> Anyway, I think the default behaviour is shitty. Everybody wants up to date package
<vbmithr_> Since the tendency is to desagreggate packages (I'm thinking at for example mirage), trying to minimizing the new/changed is pointless
<vbmithr_> As a result, the default thing that happens when you want to install mirage (without criterion) is to have an old version that nobody uses
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<vbmithr_> Newcomers to mirage should not have to figure out the OPAM criteria thing to have a working setup
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<AltGr> vbmithr_, are you sure that with latest OPAM and aspcud 1.9 you don't get the latest versions ?
<whitequark> indeed OPAM has some weird behavior with upgrading
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<vbmithr_> whitequark: it was when installing, for me
<vbmithr_> but anyway
<vbmithr_> AltGr: yes
<vbmithr_> aspcud version 1.9.1
<vbmithr_> [vb@nerenyi ~]% opam --git-version
<vbmithr_> 1b6ec60c9af058c94174b505f21c08d0c97a6c29
<vbmithr_> It's quite simple to reproduce
<vbmithr_> just rm -rf ~/.opam and then opam install mirage
<AltGr> indeed that's weird
<AltGr> ah indeed
<AltGr> there was a bug in the criteria
<AltGr> thanks for finding out
<AltGr> it was -count(removed),-notuptodate(request),-count(down),-count(changed)
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<AltGr> rather than -count(removed),-notuptodate(solution),-count(down),-count(changed)
<AltGr> so it would only apply -notuptodate to the packages mentionned in your request, not the others present in the solution
<vbmithr_> cool.
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<vbmithr_> I have new absurdities
<vbmithr_> opam install omake, I have tons of packages with [upstream changes], I just installed them
<vbmithr_> I have no custom repo
<vbmithr_> Nor I have run opam update in the middle
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<vbmithr_> the funny thing is that omake depends on nothing
<vbmithr_> So if I don’t explicitely specify -count(down) the solver just randomly does things ?
<vbmithr_> I'm trying your rule now, just to see
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<vbmithr_> mmh, better
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<AltGr> vbmithr_, pull-requested
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<vbmithr_> ok, thanks, should be fine
<AltGr> well, any solution that is an optimum for your criteria is fine by the solver, so yes
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<AltGr> you should always have at least -count(changed)
<vbmithr_> ok
<vbmithr_> should be fine, then
<AltGr> (you can try +count(changed) if you're crazy, for example, or more realistically "-count(notuptodate),+count(new)" to test as many packages as possible)
<vbmithr_> how the criterions mix together ?
<AltGr> lexical order
<AltGr> first is optimised before anything else
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<ollehar> any progress on parallel ocaml?
<ollehar> concurrent, I mean
<whitequark> no, it's parallel ;p
<whitequark> e.g. lwt takes care of being concurrent
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<flux> it's been somewhat quiet on that front..
<ollehar> hm ok
<ollehar> too bad
<ollehar> can I find upcoming features somewhere?
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<adrien> :)
<adrien> gasche_: and what about ocamlbuild moving out of the compiler? :)
<whitequark> that has failed, I believe
<whitequark> gasche_: tell me, why did you implement String.mapi?
<whitequark> it doesn't seem to be used by the compiler itself
<adrien> functors?
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<MercurialAlchemi> How can I lift a function to work over an lwt value?
<MercurialAlchemi> (or is there an alternative to |> which does?)
<Drup> >|=
<Drup> or Lwt.map
<Drup> (it's the same)
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<MercurialAlchemi> Thanks!
<MercurialAlchemi> out of curiosity, is there any reason to choose Core over Lwt?
<Drup> you mean Async
<bitbckt> Async is the comparable, not Core.
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<MercurialAlchemi> er, yes
<bitbckt> one reason: you read RWO and that's what they showed you. :)
<rgrinberg> MercurialAlchemi: it's easier to ask the reverse questions because Lwt definitely has exclusive features
<MercurialAlchemi> I meant Core.Async, but my mental autocomplete function stopped at "Core"
<MercurialAlchemi> rgrinberg: such as? (I can see it's used in quite a few places, like ocsigen and lambda-term)
<Drup> other reason : you like Core, and they synergies well
<rgrinberg> only lwt offers: mirage, windows, javascript support
<rgrinberg> there's also gtk support in the unlikely case you need it
<philtor> Well, currently Core.Async doesn't work with Mirage, Lwt does.
<MercurialAlchemi> Drup: I like Core, though I'll admit I haven't tried batteries
<philtor> It's possible that Async will work with mirage in the futrure, though. But from what I hear if you want to use js_of_ocaml you should use Lwt
<MercurialAlchemi> rgrinberg: well, I was thinking of writing an alternative to taffybar in Ocaml, so maybe I'll need the gtk support at some point
<rgrinberg> MercurialAlchemi: see, you might not have a choice after all :D
<philtor> rgrinberg: Core.Async doesn't work with gtk?
<rgrinberg> not out of the box, I'm sure you can integrate it somehow though
<rgrinberg> But that's already done for Lwt
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<MercurialAlchemi> well, right now I'm having "fun" using lambda-term instead of the blocking In_channel.input_line, which makes me wish there was a simple, blocking "import readline;foo = rawinput()" equivalent in Ocaml
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<MercurialAlchemi> though I certainly see how you'd want Lwt for something a bit more ambitioius
<Drup> MercurialAlchemi: well, there is one
<MercurialAlchemi> Drup: yes?
<Drup> read_line
<Drup> It's in pervasive, it blocks until the user has entered a line.
<Drup> (there is also the Scanf module, if you want some fancyness, but I'm not fond of it)
<MercurialAlchemi> It doesn't do want I want, unfortunately
<MercurialAlchemi> It _is_ the equivalent of Python's basic rawinput(), but not of the readline module's version
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<Drup> what do you want ?
<MercurialAlchemi> I already had that, now I want something which behaves like a readline-enabled app does: arrow keys working, for instance, emacs shortcuts, etc
<Drup> zed ;)
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<Drup> or LTerm.read_line
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<MercurialAlchemi> I'm using lambda-term for that
<Drup> seems like the right idea, it's already all implemented there, what's the matter then ? :D
<MercurialAlchemi> It would be easier if you could escape from the Lwt monad :)
<Drup> why ?
<MercurialAlchemi> This way merlin wouldn't tell me that half my code is invalid because I need to use Lwt values everywhere
<Drup> huh ?
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<Drup> just load lwt in merlin ?
<MercurialAlchemi> I mean, merlin is not the problem, it's just telling me it's not going to compile
<Drup> ah, you're just not used to monadic interface yet, right
<MercurialAlchemi> (merlin is fantastic, it's like 90% of an IDE)
<MercurialAlchemi> I'm converting my code
<Drup> (emacs with plugins being the 90% left :D)
<Drup> MercurialAlchemi: you shouldn't need that much conversion
<MercurialAlchemi> I'm a vim person :)
<Drup> if you had a big function processing the code
<Drup> just Lwt.map the output of read_line to it
<MercurialAlchemi> Unfortunately it's not simple
<MercurialAlchemi> It's a sort of wizard: "peek into the config file, if value not present prompt the user"
<MercurialAlchemi> So it means a lot of read_line in different places
<MercurialAlchemi> which means a lot of Lwt.return :)
<Drup> ok =)
<MercurialAlchemi> mm
<Drup> well, happy monads :p
<MercurialAlchemi> I have a 'string Core.Set' which I mean to turn into a 'foo Core.Set Lwt.t' by way of a function 'string -> foo Lwt.t'
<Drup> (the good part is that now, you can still do stuff while waiting for the user :p)
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<MercurialAlchemi> (the less good part is that there is nothing to do while waiting for the user :) )
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<MercurialAlchemi> I have to say, ocaml is really enjoyable
<MercurialAlchemi> despite the many clunky bits
<MercurialAlchemi> it's very readable, but not at the expense of safety
<MercurialAlchemi> well, apart from the unfortunate prevalence of runtime exceptions :)
<parcs> MercurialAlchemi: readable compared to what?
<MercurialAlchemi> Haskell
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<Tekk_> MercurialAlchemi: you do lose some safety relative to haskell
<Tekk_> at least theoretically
<Tekk_> because ocaml is cool and lets you do what you like as far as style :P
<MercurialAlchemi> well, sure
<MercurialAlchemi> no monadic towers
<Tekk_> unless you want them
<MercurialAlchemi> on the other hand, I never found lift.lift.lift particularly enjoyable
<Tekk_> you just need a couple of synonyms
<Tekk_> lift.heave.hoist
<MercurialAlchemi> It's more the mental overhead
<MercurialAlchemi> but I love the named arguments
<MercurialAlchemi> also, |>
<Tekk_> haskell doesn't have named arguments?
<MercurialAlchemi> nope
<MercurialAlchemi> you can pass records
<MercurialAlchemi> unfortunately, the record system in Haskell is...
<MercurialAlchemi> let's say it could be improved
<MercurialAlchemi> like, by being ripped out and remade sensibly
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<MercurialAlchemi> well, now it works
<MercurialAlchemi> I can invoice my customers in ocaml
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<algoriddle> hello, i'd like to do some processing on OCaml's Typedtree. i see that there's a typedtreeIter and a typedtreeMap in compiler-libs. does a generic fold exist somewhere, anyone knows?
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<Drup> https://jobs.github.com/positions/69efd4de-26ff-11e4-824c-30410e3f8f2d how did this end up on the ocaml planet ? x)
<Tekk_> why would you transition from ocaml to rails...
<Drup> well, I'm pretty sure you can be better paid as a ruby programmer than an ocaml one, on average
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<philtor> Drup: at least for now. Rails mindshare seems to be plummeting.
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<Tekk_> philtor: that increases the wage though :P
<Tekk_> "we have this legacy rails app we need someone to maintain"
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<Cariboo> Hello
<Tekk_> hi
<Cariboo> Thanks
<Cariboo> I thought there was no one here.
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<mrvn> 23:13 -!- noone [~noone@c-71-227-78-193.hsd1.mi.comcast.net]
<Cariboo> I have a question regarding modules in _build directory.
<mrvn> not here
<Cariboo> when I use "corebuild mymodule.cma". It makes a file in _build directory. I would like to experiment with it in utop. How can I open this module?
<Cariboo> It would like to use "Mymodule.myfunc x" in utop
<mrvn> cd _build && utop
<mrvn> I think then findlib should work or you have to tell utop which modules to load
<Cariboo> It works. But I am editing other file which is using this module.
<Cariboo> How does "open Core" work perfectly.
<Cariboo> It does not require one to be in the same directory.
<mrvn> default search path
<Cariboo> I tried to add _build in CAML_LD_LIBRARY_PATH. It does not seem to work. Is there any other variable which is used for searching.
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<MercurialAlchemi> did you try to #require "yourpackage"?
<def`> #load "mymodule.cmo";;
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<Cariboo> MercurialAlchemist: Yes. It does not work if I am not in the _build directory. Thanks for the idea.
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<philtor> Back to Core.Async vs. Lwt... So in my Core.Async based client that I'm rewriting in Lwt now, I use Core.Tcp to open up the socket connection. Is there something equivilent in Lwt?
<philtor> Lwt_unix.connect?
<philtor> requires a file_descr... I'd like something that takes a URL & PORT, but I suppose that's there somewhere.
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<def`> Cariboo: and just a simple load doesn't work ?
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<def`> hmmm... you always have to give a full path, if you want to use #require, you have to privde a META and use findlib (see findlib doc)
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<Cariboo> open works only if I am in _build directory. If I am not, it does not work.
<Cariboo> What is META? Thanks for the response.
<Cariboo> I meant to say open after #load.
<def`> open and load are somewhat unrelated
<def`> load is a 'linking step', just adding code in the environement
<def`> the code is stored in a cmo file, and you have to give its path explicitlt
<def`> open only cares about typing: it will search for a module, first in scope
<def`> then in the inclusion path
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<def`> a module in the inclusion path will be a file with the same name ending in .cmi
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<def`> so you have to adjust -I though there are other ways to adjust inclusion path
<Cariboo> Thanks
<Cariboo> I got it
<Cariboo> utop -I _build
<def`> once the cmi has been found, to use any value from this file a corresponding object should have been linked earlier
<Cariboo> this does the job.
<def`> cool :)
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<Denommus> what is the recommended way of setupping a OCaml project?
<jerith> Denommus: I use oasis.
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<jerith> http://ocaml.org/learn/tutorials/setting_up_with_oasis.html might be a good starting point.
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<Denommus> jerith: thanks
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