<artagnon>
I'm implementing a macro system for my language, and SQUOTE/ UNQUOTE can basically appear anywhere.
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<x32>
hi, I am trying to figure out what the '`' (operator?) is. For example if I type `int on the command line I get [> `int ] = `int I think it has to do with the type system but not sure.
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<x32>
polymofphic variants
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<adrien>
` isn't an operator
<adrien>
it's part of the language
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<rks`>
je suis sur youtube et euh
<rks`>
oh, bad channel
<rks`>
:>
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<adrien>
:D
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<zennist>
In the utop top level, how to insert a literal <Return>
<zennist>
Sometimes I'm editing a piece of code and the compiler keeps thinking that I'm trying to evaluating the unfinished piece
<zennist>
I tried <C-Return> and other combinations and none of them works
<ggole>
Try C-j
<mrvn>
In emacs it qould be ctrl-q<return>
<ggole>
(Probably won't work, but worth a shot.)
<mrvn>
or <shift><return>
<zennist>
ggole: tried already, not working
<ggole>
:(
<mrvn>
and you never need to insert a return. You might want to but you don't need to :)
<ggole>
Is this raw utop, or within emacs?
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<zennist>
rawutop
<ggole>
Dunno then.
<zennist>
mrvn: unfortnately I'm a vim guy
<zennist>
ggole: T-T
<mrvn>
condolences
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<osa1>
I just installed frama-c using opam but as far as I can see no executables are generated even though installation was successful. any ideas why?
<Kakadu>
Paths are not set?
<osa1>
PATH is set but I'm also searching .opam for the bins but no frama-c bins appear
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<osa1>
so the problem is not that I can't run `frama-c` in the shell. the problem is no executables are created in .opam
<osa1>
oh wait apparently I was looking to wrong directory. sorry for the noise.
<osa1>
I didn't know I have both 4.00.1 and 4.01.0 installed
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<mrvn>
Denommus: no. You can't define a val + : [int | float] as 'a -> 'a -> 'a
<mrvn>
Denommus: what do monads have to do with type classes?
<Denommus>
mrvn: Haskell implements monads through type classes
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<mrvn>
Denommus: so?
<mrvn>
Denommus: all you've shown is that you can have monads in ocaml
<Denommus>
mrvn: you mean val +: [int | float] -> [int | float] -> [int | float]?
<mrvn>
Denommus: no. can't add int and float I think.
<Denommus>
mrvn: but that's a different problem that has nothing to do with typeclasses :P
<Denommus>
mrvn: :t (+1) is different from :t (+1.0)
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<Denommus>
mrvn: and you're forgetting that modules are first-class citizens in OCaml, just like Haskell's typeclasses! Otherwise my strategy to implement Monad wouldn't even work
<orbitz>
if I just do type t = (foo, [> `Bar ]) Result.t I get errors about having a type variable around the polymorphic variant. previously i thought this was only a problem if I had paramateriezed t in some way but was ok if it was a concrete type. what am I doing wrong?
<mrvn>
#I think you can't define a type like that, only use it in a signature
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<orbitz>
hrm k
<orbitz>
'tis ok, it actually pointed out that was doing something wrong
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<nlucaroni>
Wouldn't the addition of implicits to OCaml satisfy the module + typeclasses combination?
<nlucaroni>
(that they would satisfy the missing parts of typeclasses that modules don't satisfy)
<Denommus>
nlucaroni: I guess
<Denommus>
there is still one point where OCaml's variables fail, though. That they're generative
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<nlucaroni>
Yeah, that can be a bit of a pain to deal with the boilerplate that may come with that.
<axiles>
orbitz: you can do this: type 'a t = (foo, 'a) Result.t constraint 'a = [> `Bar ]
<smondet>
orbitz: [> `Bar ] has like an implicit type variable
<smondet>
axiles: orbitz: or a bit shorter: type 'a t = (int, [> `Bar ] as 'a) Result.t;;
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<axiles>
smondet: ironically, in the toplevel, the first solution is displayed when you entered the second solution
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<mrvn>
but you have those domains, then you can set caching/buffering or overrides to jet a third way to specify the cache behaviour
<mrvn>
ups
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<orbitz>
smondet, axiles thanks
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<MercurialAlchemi>
typeclasses in Ocaml would be very cool
<MercurialAlchemi>
the situation right now can be a bit frustrating
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<orbitz>
MercurialAlchemi: I have never really used type clases, can you give a situatio that is bothersome for you?
<MercurialAlchemi>
orbitz: say you want to write a function which operates on a polymorphic value t
<MercurialAlchemi>
orbitz: you want to be able to compare, using a custom comparator, T1 (of type t) and T2 (of the same type t), and throw an error displaying T2 if T1 < T2
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<orbitz>
ah, i use functors for taht
<MercurialAlchemi>
orbitz: in a language with type classes, you just add the constraint that t should have an instance of Comparable and Show (or whatever you call these typeclasses in your future ocaml)
<MercurialAlchemi>
orbitz: and then you can just call (T1 <= T2) and (show T2) and it magically works
<orbitz>
right
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<MercurialAlchemi>
it's not perfect for readability (sometimes you wonder where the implementation for t is located) but it's goddamn convenient
<MercurialAlchemi>
then if your language implements that, you can get existential types and say that your list is a "list of stuff that implements Show"
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<MercurialAlchemi>
I'm not sure how you can simulate typeclasses in Ocaml easily
<mrvn>
you can't
<mrvn>
not even uneasily
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<MercurialAlchemi>
mrvn: so you end passing functions all around?
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<mrvn>
MercurialAlchemi: or you use + and +. as needed
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<MercurialAlchemi>
mrvn: sure, but that's not very generic
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<mrvn>
you can pass a first class module around, a single closure or a record or tuple of closures. Or use objects. whatever you feel is best.
<mrvn>
or functors.
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<MercurialAlchemi>
I see
<evilkidder>
MercurialAlchemi: mrvn: you can try Leo White and Frederic Bours modular implicit prototype compiler here - http://andrewray.github.io/iocamljs - along with their draft paper.
<mrvn>
I can do a lot of things.
<MercurialAlchemi>
evilkidder: is that a fork of the Ocaml compiler?
<def`>
MercurialAlchemi: extension/prototype
<MercurialAlchemi>
well, this doesn't look too bad
<MercurialAlchemi>
at first glance at least
<evilkidder>
MercurialAlchemi: yes it's a patch to a recent 4.02 version.
<MercurialAlchemi>
exciting
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<Algebr>
Safe to say that utop took a significant amount of work to do?
<Algebr>
also, presumably it uses ncurses
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<Druup>
it doesn't use ncurses
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<Drup>
(and yeah, it took significant amount of work)
<Algebr>
Drup: What does it use instead of ncurses?
<Drup>
lambda-term
<Drup>
an ocaml library to build terminals GUI
<Drup>
which doesn't suck, as opposed to ncurses, which is the biggest crap I ever tried to work with
<Drup>
(more than not-sucking, lambda term is a really nice library, even if it lack a tutorial, imho)
<Algebr>
I loved using utop, the ocaml ecosystem feels so polished, love opam too.
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<Leonidas>
hmm, someone should update the topic to 4.02.0
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