adrien changed the topic of #ocaml to: Discussions about the OCaml programming language | http://www.ocaml.org and http://caml.inria.fr | http://ocaml.org/releases/4.02.0.html | Public channel logs at http://irclog.whitequark.org/ocaml
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<SomeDamnBody> So um... I have a problem in interoperation between languages
<SomeDamnBody> most of the rest of my team wants to use java
<SomeDamnBody> basically, I started out recompiling my ocaml library with ocamljava
<SomeDamnBody> because we were just going to call into it with that
<SomeDamnBody> but... the library makes calls into other C libraries
<SomeDamnBody> I don't know how to compile the ocaml libraries with ocamljava in order that the calls into C work
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<companion_cube> o/
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<adrien> whitequark: you want some more fun on windows?
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<MercurialAlchemi> what's the go-to XML library for OCaml?
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<Unhammer> roelof, I'd say it depends on how well versed you are in functional programming ;)
<roelof> Unhammer: a little bit , I tried scala and haskell for a few weeks
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<dmbaturin> roelof: It's a pretty poor translation of the original java book through python to ocaml IMHO. :)
<roelof> dmbaturin: so not a good way to learn ocaml. then I have to look at other free online books
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<dmbaturin> Functional languages don't fit in the "Think 'a" book framework, as of me. But it may be just me, so you sure can try it.
<MercurialAlchemi> don't think, just type until it compiles?
<roelof> dmbaturin: so the best I can do is read the realworld book and do then the 99 ocalm problems ?
<dmbaturin> roelof: RWO is pretty cool. I liked http://ocaml-book.com/ too.
<roelof> dmbaturin: I like that one also but it's not free :(
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<dmbaturin> Tail recursion is just briefly mentioned but it doesn't show how to use it in place of iteration.
<roelof> oke, so first read the ocalm book and after that do the 99 ocaml problems. Does that sound as a good plan ?
<dmbaturin> roelof: I guess. You may also want to look at try.ocamlpro.com interactive tutorials.
<roelof> thanks
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<MercurialAlchemi> ah, I see there is ezxmlm, which looks less boilerplaty than xmlm
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<ggole> type t = F of { x : float; y : float; };; is a syntax error?
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<ggole> But that's how it is printed. Bit strange.
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<MercurialAlchemi> ggole: I believe you can't inline record like this, but apparently it will be possible shortly
<dmbaturin> ggole: Printed? How the original type was defined?
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<ggole> dmbaturin: without the final ; inside the record
<ggole> MercurialAlchemi: I'm testing 4.03, which does allow inline records
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<MercurialAlchemi> ggole: right
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<Drup> ezxmlm is overlay on top of xmlm to cut the boilerplate, so obviously, there is less of it :)
<MercurialAlchemi> it's a bit unfortunate
<MercurialAlchemi> something like lxml may not be terribly typesafe but it makes working with xml fairly easy
<MercurialAlchemi> While xmlm looks like souped-up SAX
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<Drup> xmlm is the minimal interface you can imagine for an xml streaming parser/printer
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<MercurialAlchemi> Drup: yes, and it looks fine for what it does, but I'm looking for something higher level
<Drup> yes, I understand
<Drup> MercurialAlchemi: personally, I think a good solution would be to use ppx_tools's metaquot approach applied to xmlm
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<Drup> match%xmlm foo with | {|<bla foo=%e>%bar</bla>|} -> do_something e bar
<Drup> and you generate xmlm's parser from that, which sounds quite easy
<MercurialAlchemi> a macro-generated parser?
<Drup> I'm not sure what *macro-*generated means here
<Drup> but at least, a little bit generated, yeah
<MercurialAlchemi> as in, generated at compile-time
<Drup> then yes
<MercurialAlchemi> I guess that'd cover most use cases
<Drup> It's actually quite close to what sedlex is doing
<MercurialAlchemi> I imagine that needing dynamic xpath expressions is relatively rare
* MercurialAlchemi looks at sedlex
<Drup> except sedlex is a lexer, nothing to do with xml =)
* MercurialAlchemi wonder if there is a ladder for puns in library names
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<adrien> kouign-amann !
<MercurialAlchemi> I can hear the screams of tortured acronyms all the way to Denmark
<Drup> :D
<Drup> MercurialAlchemi: you missed this one https://www.inria.fr/en/teams/vr4i
<Drup> :D
<MercurialAlchemi> brilliant, French l33t
<MercurialAlchemi> I support the CIDRE team, personally
<MercurialAlchemi> (we only get Swedish cider here, and it's terrible)
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<gargawel_> (I don't remember what the acronym of my team actually means)
<gargawel_> (I mean, what the letters stand for)
<MercurialAlchemi> probably something about waking up the Elder Ones from their slumber
<MercurialAlchemi> don't worry about it
<gargawel_> Naaaaah, I would remember that :P
<Drup> https://team.inria.fr/cairn/what-is-a-cairn/ "It is also an acronym…but a little far-fetched."
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<MercurialAlchemi> Drup: doesn't seem to offer the actual explanation though
<Drup> no :(
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<adrien> Martin Steffen wouldn't happen to be on this channel?
<companion_cube> hey I didn't notice, but _whitelogger* is kicked for excess flood
<companion_cube> who does it talk to? :)
<adrien> excess flood happen at the network level typically when you join too many channels at once while asking for their user list
<adrien> and you get large answers
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<companion_cube> lol.
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<whitequark> adrien: crisis averted
<whitequark> it was basically too many JOIN requests
<adrien_oww> :)
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<ousado> what does List.for_all return for empty lists?
<companion_cube> true
<companion_cube> it's the neutral element of "and"
<ousado> thanks
<companion_cube> List.exists [] returns false, because false is the neutral element of "or"
<companion_cube> see the duality? :)
<ousado> yup, pretty good
<ousado> and sorry for being lazy :)
<ousado> (the docs don't mention it)
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<companion_cube> no problem
<companion_cube> maybe you can fix your lazyness by proposing a patch to the documentation ;)
<octachron> It is also the only logical choice : ( forall x in ø , P ) is true for any proposition P
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<ousado> yeah, the logic is impecabble, but most API designs are not :)
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<samuel02> hey, how can I map a list of tuples to a list only containing the first value of each tuple?
<adrien_oww> there is the built-in "fst" function
<companion_cube> samuel02: List.map fst ?
<samuel02> thanks!
<companion_cube> why don't we have an ocaml bot here, really -_-
<def`> why would we want that?
<companion_cube> to show people the types of some expressions, or examples?
<companion_cube> whitequark: you don't happen to have an irc log parser, per chance?
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<whitequark> companion_cube: I do, in fact
<whitequark> except, well, there's as many parsers as there are ad-hoc formats
<companion_cube> oh, so you export them directly into a DB
<whitequark> yes
<companion_cube> 't would be nice to have a irc->sexp converter ;)
<whitequark> in ruby?
<companion_cube> in whatever
<whitequark> in which format?
<whitequark> what do you want it for?
<companion_cube> I have several GB of irc logs
<companion_cube> well I should write an ocaml parser
<companion_cube> some irssi stuff, date < user> msg
<companion_cube> possibly with <@user>
<companion_cube> it's probably too ad-hoc.
<whitequark> yes, it is
<whitequark> but, given enough regexes and special cases...
<ggole> The stone on which all quality software is built.
<companion_cube> :>
<companion_cube> (right, I should first get rid of join/part lines)
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<roelof> Hello, when I enter this ( let ratio x y = Float.of_int x /. Float.of_int y ;; ) I see a message unbound module Float. How to solve it
<whitequark> if we're talking about stdlib
<whitequark> float_of_int, not Float.of_int
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<roelof> whitequark: we talking about utop but in the ocaml book says this is right
<whitequark> the ocaml book? is it realworldocaml by any chance?
<roelof> whitequark: yes, we talking about the same book
<whitequark> then you need to #require "core";;
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<Drup> and probably some "open Core.Std"
<roelof> whitequark: makes no difference. Still this error message : Error: Unbound module Float
<whitequark> what Drup says, yes
<roelof> Drup: thanks , now it worked the require and the open does it
<Drup> roelof: you should re-read the section about setting up.
<roelof> Drup : I cannot find that section on this url : https://realworldocaml.org/v1/en/html/pt01.html
<Drup> "Installation Instructions"
<Drup> First link.
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<Drup> thomasga: what is the buffer time for opam-repository ?
<Drup> (I mean, the time between merging and being in the repo)
<thomasga> Drup: there's a cron job every hour
<thomasga> (it is sometime broken)
<Drup> "samoht merged commit ddc1ea2 into ocaml:master from jpdeplaix:llvm-impr an hour ago"
<Drup> arg.
<Drup> I'm too fast in trying out new things x)
<thomasga> first line of https://opam.ocaml.org/lastlog.txt is usually helpful
<Drup> ah, nice, didn't know this one
<roelof> Drup: thanks, I had to add open core.std and all my problems are gone
<roelof> again thanks
<roelof> now I can proceed learning ocaml
<Drup> =)
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<Drup> thomasga: how is assemblage going ?
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<thomasga> Drup: slowly
<Drup> is the API shuffling still on going ? ^^"
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<thomasga> Drup: yes, still work in progress. Should be clearer in a couple of weeks
<Drup> thomasga: ok
<Drup> https://travis-ci.org/Drup/llvmgraph/jobs/38186664 if anyone has an idea of what the hell is happening
<Drup> it fails only in 4.02.1, works fine in 4.01.0
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<whitequark> the 'puter, it hates you
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<Drup> no, only camp4
<Drup> and I hate him too
<whitequark> just get rid of oasis
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<Drup> yeah, I'm considering it =__=
<Drup> I wanted to wait for thomasga's greelight, though
<Drup> greenlight*
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<whitequark> topkg seems like a good interim solution
<Drup> I'm just going to disable travis on 4.02 in the meantime. Too lazy to change build system twice.
<adrien> sorry, I read "topkg" and "good"
<adrien> tozeojzehiozehzoi
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<adrien> same sentence, didn't compute
<Drup> =')
<adrien> it glosses over way too many things for my tastes
<adrien> I mean, I, too, would like pink bunnies (and unicorns), but...
<whitequark> well, I'm comparing it to oasis, ocp-build, ...
<Drup> whitequark: ok, you are right, travis hates me.
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<whitequark> Drup: lol.
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<adrien> well, oasis works everywhere
<adrien> the stuff inside might not be terrific, it works
<Drup> "the stuff inside might not be terrific"
<whitequark> adrien: it doesn't
<Drup> whitequark: what he means is that the code generated by oasis works on windows
<Drup> <insert camlp4, omd, type_conv, ocamlbuild and tons of boilerplate>
<whitequark> see link above
<whitequark> it also requires such extensive wrangling if you need to do anything besides just compiling a few ml files that it's easier to write ocamlbuild rules yourself.
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<whitequark> also, the language of _oasis is beyond immature
<Drup> (and don't say anything about the syntax error reporting)
<adrien> why does it fail? (unless I've missed something)
<whitequark> camlp4
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<whitequark> someone needs to update http://i.minus.com/ieN8vUs4fdDJV.gif to include camlp4, oasis, ocp-build and ... I'm sure there are more things
<whitequark> and I do various odd things like ppx rewriters, C bindings, cstubs, ...
<whitequark> on average I have 1-3 ocamlbuild rules
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<mrvn> On the other hand ocambuild is so flexible that for every single project you write your own build system with ocambuild syntax from scratch.
<whitequark> mrvn: bullshit.
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<mrvn> whitequark: It's exagerated. But taking an (only) ocamlbuild using project and trying to understand what it does means reading a ton of stuff. With oasis you have a nice short text and all the ocambuild (and other) stuff hidden.
<whitequark> ... unless, as I said, oasis is not flexible enough, which is rather common, and you still need to look into, gasp, myocamlbuild.ml
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<mrvn> whitequark: totaly.
<whitequark> there's also the part where it is basically abandoned and the policy on patches is "well send it and maybe I'll apply it in next two years"
<Drup> oasis is not really maintained anyway
<mrvn> whitequark: huh? When did that happen?
<Drup> and ocamlbuild, lol.
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<whitequark> mrvn: it's like that for a lot of time
<adrien> ocamlbuild definitely is maintained
<adrien> nothing more :P
<adrien> and behold the icon for win-builds' installer and package manager...
<whitequark> yeah, ocamlbuild is being updated for new features
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<mrvn> whitequark: Last time I had a problem with oasis it got fixed within a few days. I just checked. Last Debian upload was Sat, 14 Jun 2014 12:19:24 +0200 for upstream 0.4.4 (2014-03-26). Doesn't seem too dead to me.
<Drup> mrvn: there is a bugfix which is 7 month old
<Drup> still not released
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<adrien> I wish the split of ocamlbuild from the compiler would happen
<Drup> critical, every configure is broken without it
<mrvn> Drup: url?
<Drup> did I mention the bugfix is one character ? :)
<mrvn> Those are the hardest
<adrien> yeah
<adrien> it's sad but bugfixes releases don't happen just for you
<mrvn> "ACK, will speed-up a minor release -- but it will be small one." 16 days ago. There is hope.
<adrien> somehow it seems to be working for most people :D
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<Drup> adrien : it's not just for me :)
<mrvn> Drup: maybe everyone else is using the other part of the if/then/else.
<Drup> adrien : note how I'm not the one who did the fix. Certainly not for only me.
<adrien> and now you're going to blame it on jpdeplaix! pffffft!
<adrien> :)
<mrvn> Drup: looking at the fix, shouldn't the same fix be in the else branch?
<Drup> mrvn: literally no idea.
<adrien> anyway, I need to put a donkey on a PE32 file
<Drup> #AsifIknewbash
<mrvn> Drup: on second though. No
<adrien> Drup: and $* and $@ are funny things
<Drup> adrien : anyway, if you release process is not broken, there is literally not reason not do patch releases often.
<mrvn> Drup: "$@" will encase each argument in "" seperately, which breaks when trying to assign it to CONFIGUREFLAGS. "$*" puts all the args inside the one "", which breaks if any arg has spaces. I think that code path is just broken no matter what you do.
<mrvn> "$*" might just work more often.
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<Drup> mrvn: no args with space in configure
<adrien> Drup: we already had that discussion some time ago; I still believe a release isn't a simple "push button" and it's done
<mrvn> Drup: you just wait till I make some just to break it. :)
<adrien> --enable-fooo oooo
<adrien> ?
<adrien> that's 2 args
<adrien> unless you quote it but ...
<mrvn> --enable\ spacy\ option
<Drup> mrvn: I doubt oasis will handle that
<mrvn> ==> CONFIGUREFLAGS="--enable spacy option" ==> split into 3 options when CONFIGUREFLAGS gets parsed later
<mrvn> "ocaml setup.ml -configure \"$@\"" ==> "--enable spacy option" gets passed
<Drup> adrien: I don't remember you giving any arguments explaining me why a patch release was not "just press a button"
<mrvn> Drup: At least in that code it would fail with compiled setup.ml but work otherwise.
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<mrvn> Drup: how do you configure for compile setup.ml?
<Drup> "AlphaFeatures: compiled_setup_ml"
<mrvn> alpha? That sounds experimental.
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<Drup> sort of, alpha is just "every feature added less than one version ago"
<Drup> (big version)
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<mrvn> Drup: The number of people that use that is probably just jpdeplaix and you. :)
<adrien> Drup: you need testing, real-life testing
<adrien> you need to take crappy OSes into account too
<adrien> like Mac OS X
<Drup> adrien: that's CI's job.
<adrien> no
<Drup> yes, it is
<adrien> you don't have CI for every OS out there
<adrien> plus
<mrvn> and alpha/beta/rc releases
<adrien> there are new OSes
<adrien> and apple excels at making things break on each release
<adrien> CI isn't testing for release
<mrvn> making a release should be a button push that renames and tags the last RC release
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<adrien> sure
<Drup> oasis is not doing RC anyway >_>
<adrien> that's the part of the release that gets automated
<adrien> everything else? not
<Drup> you're thinking too big.
<adrien> Drup: also, since it has to be so easy, I think you can help me a bit on win-builds
<adrien> right?
<Drup> you're twisting what I'm saying on purpose =)
<mrvn> adrien: does travis do win builds?
<adrien> I heard it does
<adrien> Drup: you say it's easy; I say it's been several weeks/months I'm trying to do the 1.5 release
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<Drup> several new features, I presume, in your 1.5 ?
<Drup> yes, it's not a patch, cool.
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<adrien> yeah
<Drup> re-read what I said.
<adrien> oh, don't worry
<adrien> I'm still stuck on the same bugs as before
<adrien> so in a sense it's still about patching the same things :D
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<mrvn> Anyway, after all that fear mongering I hold up my trusty guid: DON'T PANIC! oasis is still alive.
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<artagnon> Should I not be slurping up my custom-gc.so with ocamlc and linking it to produce my final executable?
<artagnon> ... when I setgc in my code, it reports that it can't find the gc.
<adrien> ?
<adrien> setgc?
<adrien> ah, no idea :D
<artagnon> whitequark: Any tips?
<artagnon> OCaml LLVM bindings.
<whitequark> artagnon: I wouldn't build it as a so
<whitequark> also, show your code
<artagnon> Oh, just a .o?
<whitequark> yes
* artagnon tries that
<artagnon> What do you want me to show exactly?
<artagnon> The Makefile?
<whitequark> the GC code, the build script
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<artagnon> Yep, a .o works!
<whitequark> ocamlc possibly ignores .so inputs
<artagnon> I see.
<artagnon> clang++ `llvm-config --cxxflags --ldflags --libs` -c -o rgc.o rgc.cc
<artagnon> clang: warning: -lz: 'linker' input unused
<artagnon> ...
<artagnon> Any idea how to get rid of the warnings?
<artagnon> Other than picking out the parameters manually ie.
<whitequark> remove --libs
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<whitequark> and --ldflags
<artagnon> Perfect, thanks :)
<artagnon> Any idea how to get it to link on Linux?
<artagnon> That was my primary use for oasis.
<artagnon> I believe you have to generate some sort of stub?
<artagnon> For the C files.
<whitequark> what do you mean?
<artagnon> Wait, let me pull up the compile error.
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<artagnon> Hm, I don't have an up to date Linux VM. Sorry; I will come back with the Linux link error at a later time.
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<bernardo1pc> Leonidas: I saw you trying to perf/prof OCaml code. Did it work ?
<bernardo1pc> As a side question, I guess that it is PEuler you're doing - which problem got you into perf'ing ?
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<Leonidas> bernardo1pc: well, it kinda worked but I was rather disappointed in the results. They seem kind of broken (which might not be OCamls fault), because the cumulative time is completely wrong.
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<Leonidas> also, I switched to Zarith, which was so much faster (by not causing excessive swapping) that I didn't need profiling that much anymore.
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