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<_obad_>
hi there. what's the latest on the lwt syntax extension? I'm still using the camlp4 one under 4.01.0, and ocp-indent doesn't really support it.
<Drup>
ocp-indent supports it, you need to add a little option to your .ocp-indent, that's all
<Drup>
but if you want the latest, you can use the ppx :]
<_obad_>
I don't see anything in my documentation... what version do I need?
<Drup>
I think it works since quite some time
<_obad_>
no lwt mentioned in the --help output... :(
<Drup>
you only need to put "syntax = lwt"
<_obad_>
oh
<_obad_>
I'll try that
<_obad_>
oh yey that works
<_obad_>
thanks :)
<_obad_>
while we're at it... does that work for sexp as well?
<Drup>
No.
<_obad_>
damn
<_obad_>
unknown preset sexp. that sucks.
<_obad_>
I have a "type t with sexp" and in a module sig and the indentation is fucked up
<_obad_>
usual tricks like putting it on a single line don't work
<Drup>
unfortunate
<Drup>
use ppx_deriving ? :]
<_obad_>
too much code
<_obad_>
schedules too tight
<_obad_>
is there even sexplib support for ppx_deriving?
<whitequark>
no
<Drup>
you have Show, it's pretty much the same purpose
<Drup>
(or Yojson)
<whitequark>
oh, if you don't actually need sexp format, then yeah
<_obad_>
no I've decided on using sexplib syntax
<_obad_>
started training the rest of the team on it
<whitequark>
that's unfortunate.
<whitequark>
Drup: what should I replace camlp4 stream match syntax in llvm tutorial with?
<whitequark>
preferably not lalr(1), because I don't want to rewrite half of the tutorial
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<Drup>
Hum.
<Drup>
tbh, the right tool for the job is menhir
<Drup>
no lalr :/
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<whitequark>
what about writing recursive descent parsers using match syntax?
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<Drup>
I though you wanted a nice tutorial on llvm, not on parsing techniques and certainly not ugly ones.
<Drup>
especially since it's for beginners
<Drup>
whitequark: I can write the menhir parser for you, if you want :p
<Drup>
(for some weird reason, I find writing parsers quite enjoyable)
<nojb>
whitequark: why not stick with camlp4, but update it so that it work with the *current* camlp4 ?
<whitequark>
nojb: because fuck camlp4
<whitequark>
and fuck camlp4 stream syntax in particular
<whitequark>
it works with current camlp4, it just gives people starting to write their languages *very bad ideas*
<Drup>
nojb: Stream is a terrible part of the stdlib, nobody should use it
<whitequark>
like the idea that use of camlp4 is acceptable at all
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<Drup>
whitequark: you might be a bit extreme on the no-camlp4 position :]
<Drup>
nojb: but really, it's just a bad tool to write a parser
* whitequark
drives a stake through camlp4's heart and finishes the job with a bunch of silver nails
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<nojb>
actually some of the features of the llvm tutorial would be hard to replicate with menhir
<Drup>
like ?
<nojb>
(if I remember correctly at some point the author dynamically extends the grammar)
<Drup>
nojb: well, you shouldn't do that in a tutorial for beginners ...
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<companion_cube>
_obad_: you can probably write a ppx_deriving_sexplib by looking at ppx_deriving_yojson
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<whitequark>
companion_cube: if I understand correctly his problem is organizational
<whitequark>
I certainly wouldn't recommend someone on a tight deadline to write ppx_deriving_sexp.
<_obad_>
companion_cube: I probably could, and then I would have to update all the code... or I could stick with camlp4 for now. I'd rather wait for someone else to do it and polish the rough edges.
<companion_cube>
sure.
<companion_cube>
_obad_: just by curiosity, do you use Sexplib's syntax comments?
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<_obad_>
what are those? I only use with sexp and with default(...)
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<_obad_>
plus a few custom converters but those aren't special syntax
<companion_cube>
whitequark: you should have a wiki on github, listing ppx extensions people ask you^W Santa
<companion_cube>
kind of like a wishlist
<whitequark>
I think I already implemented everything except sexplib
<whitequark>
and every time I want to implement sexplib, I open its source and then throw my hands up in the air in disgust
<SomeDamnBody>
What's the best way to do the following:
<def`>
whitequark: I am not sure what you ask about the runtime being multithreaded. there is a global lock and that's it :)
<whitequark>
def`: say you have a caml_local_roots
<whitequark>
which the GC uses to look at the roots on the C stack
<whitequark>
it's per-thread, or rather it must be per-thread
<companion_cube>
I wish sexplib would use `Atom and `List, like json libraries do
<SomeDamnBody>
I have a poll function that accepts sockets and events to listen for. And I want to call a function if the event is triggered
<whitequark>
def`: so, yeah, I assume on every thread switch the runtime swaps that stuff manually
<SomeDamnBody>
basically, when I call poll, it returns with an recv_arr that should be the same size as the # socket event tuples passed to it
<whitequark>
companion_cube: but SPEEDZ
<whitequark>
hm, though, these are unary anyway
<companion_cube>
I'd like some benchs first
<SomeDamnBody>
I need to loop over the returned array and the set of functions, which should also be equal in size and call...
<whitequark>
so no difference
<companion_cube>
I mean, jsonm looks fast
<companion_cube>
my own sexp library parses at decent rates, even though it uses `Atom and `List
<kaustuv>
whitequark: I've been wanting a ppx_deriving module that derives functional forms for non-nullary constructors
<SomeDamnBody>
how can I do Array fold left over two arrays equal in size, where fold left rececives it's current elemnt as a tuple of the respective arrays
<whitequark>
kaustuv: can you elaborate?
<def`>
whitequark: hmm, not sure. I'll have to check (I don't much details about that)
<whitequark>
like type t = A of int*int ;; let a x y = A (x, y) ?
<kaustuv>
type 'a list = Nil | Cons of 'a * 'a list [@@deriving functions] would produce Cons_fn : 'a -> 'a list -> 'a list
<companion_cube>
oh, yes, please
<whitequark>
I have that lying around somewhere.
<def`>
whitequark: but you're right, there is some mystery there :)
<companion_cube>
kaustuv: I'd rather have mk_Cons
<companion_cube>
:>
<whitequark>
s/mystery/very bad coding practices/
<whitequark>
kaustuv: companion_cube: just "cons" (first letter lowercase)
<kaustuv>
The name is immateral as long as it's predictable from the constructor name
<whitequark>
maybe it could also replace A-Z with _ a-z
<whitequark>
to handle both Under_score and CamelCase
<whitequark>
I should also document Drup's record constructor thing
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<whitequark>
(try: type r = { a : int; b : int option } [@@deriving create];;)
<companion_cube>
I could still use a ppx_deriving_random somewher
<companion_cube>
e
<def`>
bad coding practices… :D and some legacy there, it has been a long time since the last time I saw "register" storage specifier, at least on PC
<companion_cube>
ohhh, or a visitor generator
<whitequark>
companion_cube: you mean [@@deriving iter] ?
<companion_cube>
no, something with open recursion, à la Ast_mapper
<companion_cube>
(unless I missed something)
<whitequark>
oh
<companion_cube>
something that annoys me is that algebraic types break modularity
<companion_cube>
you can't functorize a module that uses the structure of values, because pattern-matching
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<kaustuv>
for deriving.iter can you specify the order in which subtrees are visited?
<companion_cube>
otoh, with a proper visitor pattern, that could be possible
<whitequark>
kaustuv: no
<def`>
companion_cube: I would like to see a nice proposal to abstract over patterns (some encoding of pattern calculus?!)
<whitequark>
it's lexical
<companion_cube>
def`: I think gasche already proposed that some time ago
<whitequark>
companion_cube: go write @@deriving random
<whitequark>
nao
<companion_cube>
:D
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<whitequark>
it should take like half an hour
<whitequark>
at most
<companion_cube>
nao I should be working on something else
<def`>
(nao, ça veut dire maintenant en anglais. Nao!)
<reynir>
what would deriving random do?
<companion_cube>
reynir: make a random generator for the given type
<ggole>
Abstraction over patterns would be nice
<reynir>
Oh, for qcheck? :D
<companion_cube>
reynir: of course
<reynir>
That would be neat
<kaustuv>
As long as we're tossing ideas, for signatures there should be a deriving mock
<companion_cube>
this + deriving.show would make it much easier to use
<reynir>
Yea
<companion_cube>
oh well, I'm not very productive anyway, let's try
<companion_cube>
whitequark: I doubt it will take 1/2h, I don't know much how ppx_deriving works
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<whitequark>
companion_cube: just start with an existing deriver
<companion_cube>
yes
<companion_cube>
I'll give it a try, and ask you if I get stuck
<kaustuv>
For module types deriving a module containing only the types defined in the signature would be useful (optionally removing all private annotations), so I don't have to repeat the types in two places
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<kaustuv>
Is it possible to write something like [@inline] that would take f [@inline] x and inline the definition of f (assuming the source of f is in some visible place like earlier in the same file)?
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<companion_cube>
that's something that would be ugly to do at the level of parsetree, I think
<kaustuv>
whitequark: I was just looking at it, but it requires the .cmi to be available meaning that the module types must come from a different compilation unit, right?
<whitequark>
from your own .mli works as well
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<kaustuv>
Ah, sweet!
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<vfoley->
Can anyone explain (1) why the type of Map.Make is '+a t and not simply 'a t, (2) why I can do `type 'a t = 'a MyMap.t` (i.e. removing the variance indicator) without an error?
<def`>
1) A map is covariant in the value parameter, so that's fine? This brings more polymorphism, subtyping, etc.
<def`>
2) In this case the variance can be computed from the definition (= it's the same as the one from 'a MyMap.t)
<def`>
Specifying variance is useful for abstract type when you want or need the flexibility from (1) without exposing the representation
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<vfoley->
def`: ah, so although I wrote 'a t, it's really '+a t during type checking?
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<def`>
vfoley-: yes
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<vfoley->
cool, thanks!
<def`>
Specifying variances is also useful to let the compiler confirm variances match your expecations
<def`>
expectations*
<kaustuv>
So something I don't fully understand about ppx_deriving: if I say type t = ... [@@deriving whatever] in the module file, do I have to take the generated values and put their types in the .mli by hand or can I say type t = ... [@@deriving whatever] in the .mli as well to get these declarations automatically?
<whitequark>
you can
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<kaustuv>
Hmm. Is there online ocamldoc for stuff like Parsetree, Asttypes, etc.?
<whitequark>
not really
<whitequark>
there will be some when 4.02.1 doc get published
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<kaustuv>
Is there some guarantee that deriving.structure and deriving.signature are coherent?
<kaustuv>
err s/deriving/deriver/g
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<snyp>
Hello I have a question about "include Module_intf with type = ... " syntax.
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<snyp>
"include Module_intf with type t = ... " actually
<snyp>
It seems I can't do something like "include Module_intf with type t = { id: int; name: string }"
<snyp>
I have to have "type t = {id:int; name:string}" and then do "include Module_intf with type t = t"
<snyp>
Utop shows a parse error.
<snyp>
in the former situation
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<ggole>
Does include support with? I didn't think it did.
<snyp>
ggole: anyway, this looks like a well-known hack/idiom for making modules conform to an interface, isn't it?
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<snyp>
i mean, since you can't refer to the module inside itself, you need to create a submodule implementing the interface required by the functor, and include that submodule and the module generated by applying the functor..
<snyp>
just making sure.
<snyp>
(albeit using destructive substitution for the type t, or otherwise there would be a redefinition of t)
<snyp>
hmmmmm?
<ggole>
Seems reasonable: I'm not sure I would go so far as to call it an idiom
<snyp>
i see i see.
<ggole>
Maybe an idiom within Core/Jane St.
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<ggole>
You don't really need to do anything special to make modules work with a functor: just put all the things it wants in there with the right types
<snyp>
ah
<ggole>
I believe this is just shorthand for the stuff you'd otherwise write explicitly.
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<Drup>
snyp: you can't have a type definition here, only a type equality
<snyp>
Drup: oh.
<Drup>
by "here", I mean "after a with"
<snyp>
i see
<snyp>
i see
<snyp>
thanks
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<companion_cube>
whitequark: it's work in progress, ppx_deriving_random should eventually work!
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<adrien>
whitequark: GC's lock in the runtime protects everything
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<Unhammer>
Error: Unbound value Format.asprintf
<Unhammer>
after
<Unhammer>
utop # type d = float * float [@@deriving show];;
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<Unhammer>
I can do [@@deriving eq] though …
<gasche>
Format.asprintf is @since 4.01.0
<gasche>
are you compiling the code with an older OCaml version? (which is strange as you wouldn't have -ppx then)
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<Drup>
gasche: ppx is only with 4.02 :)
<gasche>
or maybe you use some library that shadows the Format module and doesn't provide this definition
<gasche>
Drup: but you can preprocess code and then compile separately
<Drup>
gasche: in utop ? :p
<gasche>
(and -ppx was included in 4.01 I believe, but ppx.deriving is recent)
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<Drup>
ppx yes, not the extension syntax
<Unhammer>
4.02.1; I just did opam upgrade
<gasche>
I'd check if eg. Core shadows the Format module
<Drup>
Unhammer: no core or batteries thingy in your .ocamlinit ?