adrien changed the topic of #ocaml to: Discussions about the OCaml programming language | http://www.ocaml.org and http://caml.inria.fr | http://ocaml.org/releases/4.02.0.html | Public channel logs at http://irclog.whitequark.org/ocaml
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<companion_cube> o/
<reynir> \o
<companion_cube> that compiler session yesterday was cool
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<reynir> what is that? I didn't hear about it
<companion_cube> there was a compiler hacking session yesterday evening in Paris
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<reynir> oh cool
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<bernardo1pc> companion_cube: are there videos for http://www.meetup.com/ocaml-paris/events/207050902/ ?
<bernardo1pc> (btw, you don't show up in the list of the hackathon :p)
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<companion_cube> I wasn't at this meetup
<bernardo1pc> [*N] >> dev-ml/opam ((~)1.2.0): A source-based package manager for OCaml -> so we have opam@gentoo, but not aspcud
<companion_cube> yeah, didn't register because I'm a rebel
<bernardo1pc> il using cudf better / worse than aspcud for opam ?
<adrien> you spelt "hipster" wrong
<bernardo1pc> http://www.mancoosi.org/cudf/ <- I meant this
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<dsheets> bernardo1pc, aspcud talks cudf... ?
<dsheets> cudf is the interface format to drive aspcud or packup or whatever solver you want (that uses cudf)
<bernardo1pc> oh
<bernardo1pc> well, it's a bit strange that they packaged opam for gentoo, but not a cudf solver, then
<dsheets> that is sad, you should file a gentoo issue about it and file an opam issue about the lack of advertisement of external solver goodness
<dsheets> otherwise people will package opam and think they are done
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<bernardo1pc> right
<bernardo1pc> still on opam : it seems as if it's used for globally installing packages on gentoo
<bernardo1pc> react, for instance, has a dependency on it
<bernardo1pc> how much is it a reasonable use ?
<bernardo1pc> say, install ocaml-4.02.1 via opam to all users on a given server
<Leonidas> well, opam does work without aspcud
<Leonidas> just very, very slow :p
<dsheets> Leonidas, and sometimes the answers are bad
<dsheets> bernardo1pc, multi-user systems haven't been accommodated much... i think there is an issue in the tracker about shared opam installs
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<Leonidas> dsheets: yes, they are. But I've had odd cases with aspcud too. Or rather "one odd case"
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<companion_cube> so, if A and B are module types, with A <: B, unit -> (module A) is not a subtype of unit -> (module B)?
<def`> companion_cube: no
<def`> module subtyping involve coercion functions
<def`> subtyping at value level has no runtime effect
<def`> ahem, I mean, yes*
<companion_cube> oh, ok, for modules it requires a new vtable?
<def`> It is not a subtype. (I missed a negation)
<companion_cube> (or something similar)
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<def`> Not a vtable, a new module :)
<def`> The module is the vtable :D
<ggole> Modules are records: essentially you need to copy the relevant parts into the new shape.
<companion_cube> hmm, right
<companion_cube> that makes modular implicits make even more sense: the implicit value is just a typeclass' vtable
<def`> Yes, if we think in term of haskell implementation, the module is the dictionary
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<Unhammer> does ocaml have an equivalent of python's 'if __name__ == "__main__"' ?
<Unhammer> ie., "am I being run on my own or required into something else"
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<dsheets> Unhammer, top-level side effects are executed in link order. no official way exists to detect whether this module is the last in the link order, afaik. You can adopt a convention like checking Sys.argv.(0) against the name of the module as a string, though.
<Unhammer> aha
<Unhammer> ok, thanks
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<dsheets> Unhammer, might want to use Filename.basename in conjunction to get the name of the executable... but it won't guarantee that multiple "main" initializers don't fire
<dsheets> usually people separate their libraries from their command interfaces at the module level and then this kind of dynamic check is not necessary
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<kaustuv> It's probably too late to change this now, but why is it that Format.pp_print_cut etc. have type formatter -> unit -> unit and not formatter -> unit?
<companion_cube> I suppose it's to be used with %t
<Drup> Because formaters are, in general, of the form "formatter -> 'a -> unit"
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<kaustuv> companion_cube: that makes no sense.
<kaustuv> # Format.printf "%t" ;;
<kaustuv> - : (Format.formatter -> unit) -> unit = <fun>
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<kaustuv> Drup: that's a pretty tautological reason as I see it
<Drup> kaustuv: well, look at all the functions starting by pp_print_
<Drup> I didn't say it was a good choice, I just gave you a reason :)
<kaustuv> Yes, I know what you meant. I am questioning the conformance to some schema for the sake of conformance
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<Drup> well, consistence here is useful, since the major good point of formatters is easy composition.
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<companion_cube> kaustuv: oh.
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<Drup> whitequark: did you tested how compatible ppx_deriving was with deriving ?
<Drup> compatible as in "code generated by show from one can be used by the other"
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<Unhammer> dsheets, yeah several files sounds like a better solution
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<whitequark> Drup: nope! I have not even ran deriving once
<Drup> ok
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<ljs> Hey there, I have a question about how to use mutations wisely. Suppose in a server program, I want to store incoming clients information. I always use Hashtbl in this case. When I want to iterate through the hashtbl, I am not sure if the iteration order will always be the same. So I am thinking to use a list, which can give me stable iteration orders. However, ocaml does not
<ljs> have mutation List....I am wondering what is the typical way to deal with this?
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<adrien> 'a ref list ?
<ggole> Or a queue
<adrien> also, if your hashtable keys are provided by the client, you risk a DoS
* adrien looks at nicoo
<ljs> will defining (clients : list ref) result in inefficiency implementation?
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<ljs> Let's simplify the case and don't take security into account.
<adrien> queue is better than 'a list ref
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<ljs> I found the similiar question ocurrs again and again.
<ljs> OK
<adrien> and it depends on the operation you're going to do
<adrien> lookup in a queue is going to be really slow
<adrien> and I guess you use that
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<ggole> Queue is suitable if you just put them in and take them out in order.
<ljs> right
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<adrien> from my really-tired-brain it sounds like Map would be the best fit
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<ljs> but Map is immutable righ
<ggole> If you want that but in the reverse order, there's stack (which is essentially what 'a list ref is, really).
<ljs> right?
<ggole> Yes, but you can use refs to update it in the same way as lists.
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<ggole> The problem with Map is that order will depend on the structure of the keys, not of insertions.
<ggole> *not the order of
<adrien> as expected I had misunderstood things a bit :)
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<ljs> Sure
<Drup> ljs: which operation do you want ? iteration on the order of arival and lookup ?
<ljs> either hashtbl, or list ref.
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<Drup> "ljs: right, select the nth one based on the order print out on the screen."
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<ljs> yes, this one
<Drup> ljs: the nth, I don't really know
<ljs> it is not slash msg...
<Drup> are you sure you want the nth, and not either discard message as they are handled or use the real date ?
<ljs> Drup: Thanks.
<ljs> Drup: I just want to simple command line to do operation on that client. Say I can list all the connected clients, and then select nth to do the operation.
<ljs> Drup: I now think efficiency is not import at all, because this opeartion is rare
<Drup> then Queue.
<ljs> Right. Queue sounds good. Thanks!
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<reynir> ocamltter is weird
<Drup> why ?
<whitequark> it doesn't really work
<Drup> that's an important issue. =')
<companion_cube> :D
<reynir> there's a binary that seems to sort of work. All it seems to do is get tweets in japanese and read it out loud.
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<nicoo> reynir: <3
<nicoo> How you never dreamed of listening to Japanese tweets ?
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<reynir> I can't say I have, but it was quite an experience :)
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<ysz_> naive one
<ysz_> i'm trying to build ocaml-ctypes-inverted-stubs-example
<ysz_> and i got ld: ....opam/4.02.0/lib/ocaml/libasmrun.a(startup.o): relocation R_X86_64_32 against `.rodata.str1.1' can not be used when making a shared object; recompile with -fPIC
<ysz_> i got my ocaml with opam.
<ysz_> should i now re-compile ocaml myself? :)
<ysz_> (im on x86_64 obviously. Linux)
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<thomasga> ysz_: opam switch -a | grep PIC
<thomasga> (not sure that's the quickest way to solve your problem though)
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