adrien changed the topic of #ocaml to: Discussions about the OCaml programming language | http://www.ocaml.org and http://caml.inria.fr | http://ocaml.org/releases/4.02.0.html | Public channel logs at http://irclog.whitequark.org/ocaml
<jpdeplaix> pyon: just do « open Batteries » at the beginning of your modules
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<lambdahands> Hi all. I'm very confused at this behavior in OCaml. For example, doing this: `let a = 'a' and b = 'b' in a = b;;` yeilds `false`.
<lambdahands> Yet if I compare the two values directly like so `'a' = 'b'`, I get a type error that the left hand side is expected to be a string.
<lambdahands> (I'm using Core.Std if that has anything to do with it.)
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<whitequark> use this instead of target_data
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<pharpend> hi guys
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<pharpend> I'm new to OCaml, trying to install utop
<pharpend> I'm getting this error from opam http://lpaste.net/112963
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<pharpend> (I should note that the installation worked on a different computer with mostly the same specifications, about 30 minutes ago
<pharpend> )
<whitequark> pharpend: 3.12.1... is there a reason you cannot use a newer OCaml?
<pharpend> whitequark: hmm. let's see
<whitequark> 4.02.1 is a good one, barring that, 4.01.0
<pharpend> that's the latest "stable" version my distro has, I can install the newer one though, I just have to unmask some things
<whitequark> yes, that's a good idea
<pharpend> 4.01.0 is the latest "unstable" version
<pharpend> alright, installing
<pharpend> that was surprisingly painless
<pharpend> usually, when I try to install an "unstable" package, I get all sorts of dependency errors
<pharpend> well, it's still installing
<pharpend> so we'll see
<pharpend> okay, so, should I rebuild opam now?
<whitequark> not necessarily
<whitequark> but I think you need `opam reinstall system`
<whitequark> er
<whitequark> `opam switch reinstall system`
<AltGr> opam should detect it automatically though
<pharpend> aight it's recompiling stuff
<AltGr> on the issue, this is a packaging error that should be reported in utop
<pharpend> off to get a cup of tea
<pharpend> AltGr: okay
<pharpend> AltGr: hmm, it worked like 30 minutes ago
<pharpend> so i'm not sure I could make a reproducible test case
<AltGr> I mean on the utop package at https://github.com/ocaml/opam-repository
<pharpend> s/ible/able
<pharpend> AltGr: have I seen you in another channel, your nick looks familiar?
<whitequark> AltGr: unfortunately I've seen the code that detects compiler-libs on 3.12
<whitequark> oh, well, I actually know how to fix this
<AltGr> it should advertise if it's incompatible with 3.12
<pharpend> AltGr: I have 3.12 on a different computer (presumably), and it worked, so I don't think that's the issue
<whitequark> AltGr: I think it's only broken with the system compiler on 3.12.
<AltGr> arg, alright
<pharpend> anyway, it's installed now, can continue with reading book
<pharpend> thank you all for your help
<pharpend> AltGr: are you in #haskell ever? or maybe #gentoo or #archlinux?
<AltGr> nope
<pharpend> hmm :/
<pharpend> #learnprogramming?
* pharpend tries to think of where else he's been
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<AltGr> /whois me and that's pretty much it :)
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<kandu> is it possible to build an ocaml closure in c code?
<kandu> ie, closure= caml_alloc(1, Closure_tag); then store a function pointer to its field
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<adrien> hmmm
<adrien> are you sure you're not overcomplicating it?
<adrien> what do you want to achieve in the end?
<kandu> i just play it for fun :)
<adrien> heh :)
<adrien> it should be possible but no idea how you'd do it in practice :)
<kandu> i find there is a macro, Code_val(v) returns the code part of the closure v. So i wonder if i can store a custom codee into the ocaml value
<whitequark> kandu: yes, it is certainly possible
<whitequark> note that OCaml has a custom ABI that's incompatible with C ABI though.
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<whitequark> Code_val in bytecode interpreter points to the bytecode of the closure
<whitequark> Code_val in native code points directly to executable code
<kandu> points to a c function?
<whitequark> no, to an OCaml function.
<whitequark> you cannot put a C function there, it'll just segfault.
<kandu> hmm, just got a segfault XD thank you guys
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<whitequark> I think you can put caml_c_call there, and the C function to call inside the environment,
<whitequark> I'm not exactly sure how to pass more arguments to it though
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<whitequark> AltGr: what about opam 1.2 release?
<AltGr> expect it this week since we want to squeeze it into jessie (haha!) and freeze is next week
<whitequark> ahh
<whitequark> good idea
<AltGr> that'd mean rc4 unless we find a big blocker
* whitequark just wants to get 1.2 stuff merged in opam-repo
<pharpend> Alright, I submitted a bug report asking for opam to be added to my distro's repos - https://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=526174
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<whitequark> .
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<whitequark> does the bytecode compiler optimize out (if false) ?
<whitequark> oh, well, it doesn't optimize out Sys.win32 and it makes sense
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<nicoo> whitequark: It better not inline the stuff in Sys :>
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<whitequark> well
<whitequark> the whole "bytecode is portable" thing is fishy anyway
<whitequark> like you need a 32-bit ocamlrun to run ocamlc.
<whitequark> 32-bit target ocamlc.
<whitequark> the reason for which eludes me.
<adrien> hmmm
<adrien> hasn't that been fixed
<whitequark> nope
<flux> can it be fixed? how about C bindings?
<whitequark> I have *no idea* why it happens, otherwise I'd have fixed it already
<flux> well, I suppose there could be proper typedefs and then the C bindings could be compiled both 64- and 32-bit
<flux> and ocamlrun could always use the 'original' bit size of the bytecode
<whitequark> flux: that's not really useful
<flux> or is there another solution?
<whitequark> I mean, you make it portable across two platforms instead of one.
<flux> ability to 'cross-compile' 32-bit bytecode and always run it 32-bit?
<whitequark> no, bytecode is supposed to be portable across bitness.
<flux> but how about the type 'int'
<flux> pretty fundamental.
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<whitequark> hm, at least, if you build it with -compat-32
<flux> oh, that's nice that it exists
<whitequark> yeah I guess that is the issue, ocamlc assuming it can represent target int with host int
<flux> then all you need is that all platforms are able to run 32-bit bytecode as 32-bit
<flux> ocamlopt programs would be able to make use of 64-bit
<whitequark> that's already there
<whitequark> I mean, the problem is that the compiler can't be built with -compat-32
<flux> why does the compiler need to be built with that?
<whitequark> if you want to cross-compile to 32-bit platforms on a 64-bit host
<flux> what does -compat-32 switch then do if not that?
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<whitequark> right now in order to cross-compile to 32-bit Android I need a 32-bit ocamlc, which is ... inconvenient ... if I have a 64-bit system
<flux> I mean there's till the thing that don't you need to compile all standard libraries etc with -compat-32 as well..
<whitequark> the compiler can't be built with -compat-32.
<flux> the key thing here for me not understanding this issue is :-) that wouldn't compiling the compiler with -compat-32 just mean that it can be executed in a 32-bit ocaml byte code environment
<flux> do you mean something else by that?
<flux> (ie. it would not have effect on the programs it generates)
<whitequark> see, currently the issue is, ocamlopt generates invalid assembly if you run an ocamlopt built for a 32-bit target on a 64-bit host
<whitequark> -compat-32, I think, would reduce the size of int to 32 bits, which would mean that it would execute under a 64-bit ocamlrun like it executes under a 32-bit ocamlrun
<whitequark> it's not that it has any effect on the programs it generates, it's that you can't compile any
<flux> right, so it would affect the case where you cannot really build a 32-bit cross compiler for a 64-bit host and instead just try to use the 32-bit compiler directly on the 64-bit host
<whitequark> yes
<flux> but isn't there some 'emulation' involved, how does it get to fail?
<flux> I mean I can run various 32-bit binaries on 64-bit platform..
<whitequark> you need various OS-specific tricks for that.
<flux> you need them in any case?
<whitequark> no?
<flux> well, I mean the OS has them built in for you
<whitequark> generally, there is no reason for a compiler's build, host and target triples to interact *at all*
<whitequark> I should be able to target anything from anything.
<flux> sure, sadly ocamlc/ocamlopt don't really support cross-compiling
<whitequark> the OS... well, you have to install them explicitly. and you don't have them on all OSes.
<whitequark> Debian has ia32-libs
<whitequark> but say openbsd? it doesn't have anything
<flux> but maybe with the smallest of an effort it would work for this scenario
<flux> and if you don't have them, you cannot run 32-bit binaries
<whitequark> sure
<flux> so the OS sets up the environment
<whitequark> I'm not going to run a 32-bit ARM binary on my x86 host anyway
<flux> but in this case ocamlopt somehow uses the 64-bit information during runtime
<whitequark> or a 32-bit Windows binary.
<flux> I don't know how 'arch' works with ia32, perhaps there's a special version of it that returns x86
<whitequark> hm?
<flux> if not, perhaps ocamlopt uses that kind of runtime data to determine integer size
<whitequark> ocamlopt doesn't use any kind of runtime data
<whitequark> it just uses int
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<flux> how can it then fail when merely the platform underneath it is changed to 64-bit and then emulated back to 32-bit?-o
<whitequark> what? nothing is emulated
<whitequark> you run it with a 64-bit ocamlrun.
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<flux> so you're running 32-bit ocamlrun with 64-bit ocamlrun?
<whitequark> ...
<whitequark> ocamlrun is a native binary.
<flux> I thought you were running 32-bit ocamlopt.opt in a 64-bit environment
<whitequark> no, I don't have any .opt tools when cross-compiling
<flux> oops, I meant 'ocamlopt' in the previous sentence
<flux> so now I finally get it :-)
<flux> but, if you just compiled a 32-bit ocamlopt on a 32-bit environment, copied the binary to your 64-bit environment and set up the ia32 system, everything should work fine. assuming of course this is possible for you.
<flux> it's not optimal but a realistic option in many cases
<flux> (and by ocamlopt I meant ocamlopt.opt for clairty)
<whitequark> lolwhat? I'm so not going to set up a separate 32-bit environment just to build ocamlopt
<flux> :-)
<whitequark> this is complete bullshit and has to be fixed in ocaml.
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<adrien> whitequark: check the ML archives
<adrien> I've already raised the issue last year
<adrien> there's also the "how it can be solved"
<adrien> and chambart agrees on the approach so you can maybe trap him in doing it :D
<adrien> summary: first-class modules to be able to chose between the bitnesses
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<whitequark> so will it be like
<whitequark> | Const_int of Bitness.int
<whitequark> and then
* companion_cube read : | Const_int of Bitterness.int
<whitequark> bitness.ml: module M = (if target32 then (struct type int = Int32.t end) else (struct type int = Int64.t))
<whitequark> yes, companion_cube. yes.
<companion_cube> :D
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<flux> whitequark, that won't work, does it? you need to implement an interface?
<flux> well, module type
<whitequark> yeah, I omitted that part
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<Unhammer> to use the new -safe-string option with ocamlbuild, is it simply
<Unhammer> ocamlbuild -cflag -safe-string -use-ocamlfind -pkg batteries foo.ml foo.native
<Unhammer> ?
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<whitequark> no, use the safe_string tag
<Unhammer> ooh, _
<whitequark> -tag safe_string, but better put it in _tags
<Leonidas> I wonder whether I can force oasis to generate that somehow
<Leonidas> haven't found a way to specify any kind of flags to the compiler yet :-(
<whitequark> sorta, put # OASIS_START # OASIS_END
<whitequark> er
<whitequark> like this
<whitequark> you can put cflag() in _tags, or also you could put ByteOpt: or NativeOpt: sections in _oasis
<Leonidas> I'd rather not modify _tags, since I don't have them in version control because I generate it from _oasis
<whitequark> well, use OASIS dynamic mode then.
<Leonidas> whitequark: so I have to duplicate it? Thats kinda what I feared
<whitequark> again, see the ocaml-lz4 repo
<Leonidas> okay, will do
<Leonidas> thanks
<whitequark> you basically need to do oasis setup -setup-update dynamic
<whitequark> then you don't check in any OASIS stuff into VCS, but you put it into the archive when you make a release
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<Leonidas> yes, that is what I am currently (manually) doing.
* Leonidas reads on about dynamic mode
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<companion_cube> so I wonder when will -safe-string become the default
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<jpdeplaix> companion_cube: it is designed to be
<companion_cube> the point is when
<companion_cube> I'm not ready :/
<jpdeplaix> oh I didn't see the when. Sorry
<whitequark> 4.03 seems like a good time
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<companion_cube> I hope they will specify it not later than the beta release
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<companion_cube> for what I've seen, it's not always easy to decide whether what was formerly a string, should be a strig or byte
<companion_cube> string*
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<jpdeplaix> I bet for 4.04
<whitequark> have you seen gasche's caml-list thread?
<companion_cube> soooo he's advocating for using bytes, and ditching strings ??
<companion_cube> I prefer Guarrigue's proposition, with phantom types
<whitequark> phantom types break functors
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<ggole> Arity :(
<companion_cube> not if you apply them, do they?
<companion_cube> type string = immut bytes
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<whitequark> hrm
<whitequark> well, first, this still means you can't make a map of bytes
<companion_cube> not unless you choose whether they are mutable or immutable
<companion_cube> (for a map, clearly, you want immutable keys)
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<companion_cube> Map.S with type key = immut bytes
<whitequark> that doesn't work
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<companion_cube> I just tried module M = Map.Make(struct type t = (int,[`ro]) CCVector.t ....)
<ggole> Doesn't work how?
<companion_cube> looks like phantom types do work in this case
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<companion_cube> clearly those parameters must be instantiated
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* whitequark read that as "insatiated"
<whitequark> yes, I really meant that you can't put 'a bytes inside a map.
<whitequark> But that is probably not useful.
<companion_cube> that's not something you could do right now anyway
<whitequark> hmm?
<companion_cube> it doesn't correspond to a type that currently exist
<companion_cube> currently you have either a Map of string, or a Map of bytes
<whitequark> right
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<roelof> Is it possible to make one recursive function to check for a palingdrome. I tried but get a lot of type errors
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<whitequark> show us the code
<ggole> One? Can you nest?
<whitequark> I don't see a problem with having to write one...
<roelof> whitequark: for example this one : http://pastebin.com/iMvmBHqp
<whitequark> you need ; on line 8
<whitequark> newline is not enough
<whitequark> though it wouldn't make sense still
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<roelof> that gives this error : Error: This expression has type 'a list -> bool
<roelof> whitequark: why not. reverse a list and when it done compare it with the orginal
<ggole> Wouldn't you just do list = List.rev list?
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<roelof> that would work, but I try to find a recursive way to pratice more with it
<ggole> I see.
<roelof> but i could be that there is no way to do it .
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<ggole> So which part of the algorithm do you wish to write recursively?
<ggole> There's the equality check and the list reversal.
<ggole> Writing each of those alone should be a useful exercise.
<roelof> the list reversal I have written recursibely . I thought with a little changes it also could do the equailty check
<ggole> I don't think that would work.
<roelof> oke, then the solution must be 2 seperate programm. one for the reversal and one for the eqaulity check
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<roelof> ggole and whitequark thanks for the help
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<ggole> np
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<roelof> now reading more in the ocaml book so he can make more exercises of the 99 ocaml problems
<roelof> have all a nice day
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<vbmithr> Hi
<whitequark> o/
<vbmithr> It sucks that in OPAM, all packages have to be rebuilt on a new ocamlfind release
<whitequark> this will be fixed in 1.2
<vbmithr> It is in trunk already ?
<whitequark> for a long time.
<vbmithr> I have trunk
<whitequark> you need to do depends: ["ocamlfind" {build}] in the package
<vbmithr> And it rebuilds all packages still
<vbmithr> Ha
<vbmithr> Not that I'm going to fix all the packages by hand :p
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<vbmithr> Guess it is not compatible with 1.1, that's why the repo is not updated ?
<whitequark> yes
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<whitequark> Drup: what do you feel looking at this file: https://github.com/ocsigen/lwt/blob/master/src/extra/lwt_lib.ml
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<ysz> i want to post-process some product in myocamlbuild.ml
<ysz> what is right way to do so?
<whitequark> make a ruke
<whitequark> *rule
<ysz> post-processing will not create new file
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<whitequark> well, it should.
<whitequark> otherwise you can't determine whether you have already post-processed this or not.
<ysz> hm. like introduce synthetic one?
<whitequark> yes.
<ysz> well, its unconditional post-processing
<ysz> like each time you get this prod do this post-procenssing
<ysz> yeah, i thought about some synth as well...
<whitequark> think of it in terms of dependency resolution
<whitequark> when you say 'ocamlbuild foo', what should ocamlbuild run?
<ysz> ideally i would hook into the middle of original rule
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<whitequark> you can override a rule
<ysz> i need to combine stubs (static) archive actually
<whitequark> does .clib not work?
<ysz> (with some other static library)
<ysz> .clib?
<whitequark> yes, .clib, it's a target for building static archives
<ysz> whitequark, while overriding a rule am i still able to call original first?
<whitequark> you put your .o's in a file called foo.clib and then you do ocamlbuild foo.a
<ysz> body of original
<whitequark> no, you can't call the original one.
<ysz> that sucks
<ysz> and its root of my problem :/
<ysz> im looking for :AROUND method...
<ysz> you see my foo.clib will be same as my libfoo_stubs.a
<whitequark> really, just make a synthetic target, it's way simpler
<ysz> i need to ar x and then re-ar cr libfoo_stubs.a in fact
<ysz> yeah...
<ysz> thx whitequark !
<whitequark> why can't you just link two different .a files to your OCaml .cma/.cmxa?
<ysz> hm. what im trying to achive is to have self-contained bindings package
<whitequark> add a -cclib -lyoursecondlibrary when building a .cma/.cmxa
<whitequark> yes, I gathered
<whitequark> it will have the same effect, except with no .a repacking
<ysz> part of issue is that im using oasis to specify sources/deps
<whitequark> CCLib:
<ysz> hm... let me try
<ysz> im not sure it will work... last time i checked it links against it only the dynamic library...
<whitequark> well, worst case, you'll just have to add some myocamlbuild flags
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<ysz> yeah it does not work
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<ysz> it just feeds ar with that *.a
<ysz> which is not what it should actually do to combine archives
<ysz> it should go over ar x ... ar cr somehow
<whitequark> hrm, okay, I don't know how to do it with oasis
<whitequark> but with ocamlbuild it is easy
<whitequark> and you definitely should not repack .a's
<ysz> yeah. let me try this way
<whitequark> there is no difference between linking one .a (with stubs) or two
<ysz> hm. im not sure we are on same page
<ysz> im linking stubs (produces by ocaml tools) against static library (3rd party) of foreign code
<ysz> trying to link...
<whitequark> not really, no
<ysz> yea?
<whitequark> you're trying to make code that depends on your library link your stubs *and* some 3rd party code
<ysz> yup. but i want to include that dependecy!
<whitequark> sure
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<ysz> anyway, let me hack myocamlbuild.ml...
<ysz> and see...
<whitequark> so normally, you would have only the stub functions directly included with the OCaml library
<ysz> oh, what do you mean by that?
<whitequark> inside the .cma file, there is a field with linker options
<whitequark> so when ocamlc is linking an executable, it extracts all that options and adds it to the linker command line
<whitequark> ocamlfind also adds the paths to the packages to the linker search path
<whitequark> so when you make some stubs, what you're really doing is you're making a .a and embedding instructions for linking that .a (just -lfoo) inside the corresponding .cma
<whitequark> nothing stops you from putting your .a of 3rd party code next to the stubs in the package and instructing ocamlc to link them in as well
<whitequark> you can display the said instructions using the ocamlobjinfo tool
<ysz> hm yeah but this way i will need to distrib my 3rd party *.a, right?
<ysz> ideally ill incorporate foreign *.a into _stubs.a bc its the right place!
<ysz> only my bindings (stubs) depend on it!
<whitequark> you're distributing the _stubs.a already
<ysz> fair enough..
<whitequark> just put your 3rd party .a next to it
<ysz> seems like this will require teaching oasis to install etc 3rd party *.a along the cmxs-etc...
<ysz> which is too much of tools & infra- hacking for me at this point :)
<whitequark> oh, yeah, I can give you some pointers on that
<ysz> would appreciate!
<whitequark> it's pretty simple, but very hard to figure out
<ysz> oh cool
<ysz> many thx!
<whitequark> np
<flux> nice. last time I did that I ended up extracting the .o-files from the .a-file..
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<whitequark> O_o
<whitequark> I found a big obscure chunk of code in Lwt that does some black shell escaping magic
<whitequark> it's not called from anywhere
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<ysz> whitequark, hm. i got my ... -Wl,-Bstatic -lfoo.a -Wl,-Bdynamic ... into that section of cmxa which propagated to gcc command when linking against that ocaml package to gcc -o bar.native ... -Wl,-Bstatic -lfoo.a ... -lfoo_stubs ... and still seems like too late bc gcc complains that it can't find symbols in that foo_stubs.a files (which are in foo.a actually)
<ysz> that was the reason why i wanted to combine foo.a + libfoo_stubs.a in first place (in part)
<ysz> reason being symbols from libfoo_stubs are not found during linking of *.native which depends on package...
<ysz> which seems to make perfect sense when dealing with static archives (libfoo_stubs.a should have all symbols "resolved" already, no?
<whitequark> nonononono what the hell are you doing
<ysz> :)
<whitequark> you don't need -Bstatic.
<whitequark> you don't have a .so there at all
<whitequark> just give it -lfoo, it will find the .a by itself and link it statically
<ysz> well, i have both libfoo.a & libfoo.so
<whitequark> oh.
<ysz> i want specifically link against static version...
<ysz> thats why...
<whitequark> can you name it like libfoo_static.a?
<ysz> well... sure
<ysz> whats the difference/
<whitequark> -Bstatic/-Bdynamic is nonportable
<ysz> i dont care
<ysz> linux only
<whitequark> okay. anyway, it should work with -lfoo_static -lfoo_stubs
<whitequark> if it doesn't, reverse the order of the flags
<ysz> aha, let me try this last one...
<whitequark> (I don't remember whether ld traverses them left-to-right or the other way)
<ysz> oh
<ysz> i cant! :)
<ysz> -l*_stubs comes from ocaml...
<ysz> -lfoo comes from that fancy section...
<ysz> you see?
<ysz> no way to force those in any particular order
<ysz> (to gcc command invokation)
<whitequark> both of them come from the same place.
<ysz> pardon.
<ysz> right.
<whitequark> OCaml doesn't magically know that it needs to link _stubs, it doesn't even know what _stubs means
<ysz> yeah.. sorry... i messed things a bit...
<ysz> it comes from ocamlopt ... -o foo.cmxa
<whitequark> yup, it's the same with .cmxa
<whitequark> do ocamlobjinfo foo.cmxa
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<ysz> cool
<ysz> it works as expected!
<whitequark> so everything works now?
<ysz> (reversing the order of -l did the trick)
<ysz> yeah.
<whitequark> excellent
<ysz> now i need to figure out how to feed all to ocamlbuild plugin )
<ysz> whitequark, many thanks!
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<ysz> btw, i used your myocamlbuild.ml from lz4 bindgings yesterday when i learned how to write Ocamlbuild plugins :)
<ysz> nice stuff!
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<jpdeplaix> whitequark: I'm wondering how things like « C->getType() == DestTy » could work with getType() returning a pointer. This comes from LLVM
<jpdeplaix> I get something like that everywhere in my generated code using LLVMLinker (which uses Constants::getBitCast): « %0 = load i8** bitcast (i8** @Multi.id to i8**) »
<jpdeplaix> This is clearly wrong but the pattern quoted above is used everywhere in LLVM
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<emery> I'm reading a book from ~1996 with examples using caml, can I follow along ok with ocmal or should I try and find a version of caml? I ask because some of the pattern matching doesn't seem to work
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<whitequark> jpdeplaix: uh
<whitequark> what do you think is wrong?
<whitequark> comparing pointers?
<smondet> emery: which book? between camllight and ocaml differences are usually easy to work out
<emery> "The Functional Approach to Programming"
<emery> by Cousineau
<smondet> and what kind of problem do you have?
<smondet> everything in camllight can be expressed in ocaml (not the other way around) so shouldn't be a problem
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<emery> let rec fact = fun 0 -> 1 | n -> n*fact(n-1);;
<emery> Error: Syntax error
<whitequark> use function instead of fun
<emery> whitequark, that did it, thanks!
<ggole> And check for the negative case :E
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<emery> that raises another problem, I don't know algebra, but thats out of scope
<whitequark> jpdeplaix: ok, so, answering the question you didn't ask but might have had in mind
<whitequark> LLVM uniques types within a single LLVMContext
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<whitequark> so basically, any two i8's will have the same address. so you can compare pointers directly.
<ggole> If you don't know what to return, consider raising Invalid_argument or something of the kind
<whitequark> jpdeplaix: I've no idea about your problem with llvm-link though, not enough information
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<def`> m
<whitequark> ɯ
<ggole> E
<whitequark> ∃
<companion_cube> ∀
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<whitequark> A
<companion_cube> ∈
<whitequark> ∋
<ggole> ə
<ggole> Oops, did it wrong.
<companion_cube> neat!
<companion_cube> λ
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<ggole> def`: look at what you did. Look.
<whitequark> y
<ousado> |
<whitequark> —
<Drup> ┬─┬
<whitequark> ┻━┻
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<ggole> ⁅
<Drup> (It shouldn't be bolded !)
<whitequark> ⁆
<companion_cube> ↺
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<whitequark> →
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<whitequark> ↻
<whitequark> ←
<whitequark> ○
<ggole> ●
<ggole> ⌫
<companion_cube> ⚒
<whitequark> ◍
<whitequark> ☭
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* whitequark is now FYCaaS: flipping-your-characters-as-a-service
<ggole> ±, please
<ousado> that's way too enterprisy for #ocaml
<companion_cube> whitequark: please provide a rest API
<whitequark> ggole: ±
<whitequark> er
<whitequark> ggole: ∓
<ggole> Not bad. Latency could use some work.
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<whitequark> companion_cube: sure, just post a valid HTTP POST with an urlencoded body in PM
<whitequark> say, q=<character>
<whitequark> don't forget to add an Accept: application/json header, or I will respond in XML
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<companion_cube> :D
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<whitequark> actually, it probably should be a GET, so that proxies would cache the request
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<whitequark> so like ... GET /flip?q=± HTTP/1.0
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<ggole> ˙ʇno ʇᴉ ǝɹnᵷᴉɟ ʇ‚uɐɔ I ‘dlǝH
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<def`> n ?
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<Drup> I wonder if we can automate it
<ggole> ˙ʎlǝʞᴉlun sɯǝǝS
<whitequark> upside-down text conversion? sure: http://www.fileformat.info/convert/text/upside-down.htm
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<whitequark> generally rotating graphemes? sure again. rasterize it, rotate, then OCR
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<whitequark> or just rasterize all of them and then sort by similarity
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<ggole> There are a few missing bits though
<whitequark> hmm?
<ggole> Upside down j, for instance
<mrvn> I always wanted to writte a little robot that reads an ebook and outputs formated text.
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<whitequark> ggole: oh, yeah. I think you could construct something with combining chars
<ggole> Hmm, maybe.
<ggole> I have an emacs mode (written by somebody else) and it just skips the chars without a reasonable mapping.
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<Drup> ggole: link of the emacs mode ? :D
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<ggole> Hmm, I can't find a link
<ggole> Sec
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<Drup> ggole: thanks <3
<ggole> I had to patch this to get it working on a recent emacs.
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<ggole> I think the patch is in that version, if it barfs let me know.
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<Drup> whitequark: for the implem in the Ast_conveniance.sequence, I have a choice of implementation
<Drup> 1) not tail rec
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<whitequark> don't care about tail rec in ast stuff
<Drup> 2) tail rec but produce unidiomatic sequences : (e1; e2) ; e3
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<Drup> yeah, I suppose it doesn't matter that much, since it will blow up in the compiler anyway.
<Drup> (in case of list too big)
<Drup> (sequence*)
<whitequark> likely
<whitequark> though when I look at some camlp4 files, I wonder about it
<whitequark> they certainly *stretch* the limits a bit
<Drup> well, in case of sequences, the solution is simple
<Drup> build a tree.
<whitequark> raise a house, grow a son?
<Drup> :]
<Drup> err, it's tail rec in fact. I always mix up which one between fold left and right is tail rec >_>
* whitequark grins and removes all deprecated modules in his lwt PR
<whitequark> and functions.
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<whitequark> I mean, this warrants 3.0 anyway, could as well do some burnination
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<Drup> you're taking way too much pleasure in this, but I suppose it compensates for all the rest :p
<whitequark> I like watching code burn
<whitequark> well, other things too.
<whitequark> I just like watching stuff burn in general, I guess.
<ggole> Delete is the best key.
<Drup> primal instincts :D
<whitequark> Pouring gasoline on it. Setting it on fire.
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<Drup> or http://grooveshark.com/#!/s/Burn+In+Hell/3b3koT?src=5 =)
<Drup> whitequark: === 106 to reinstall | 5 to upgrade ===
<Drup> I hate you, stop releasing minor versions of ocamlfind.
<whitequark> lol
<whitequark> no.
<Drup> or at least, wait for opam 1.2
<whitequark> never.
<whitequark> I already sent another patch to Gerd.
<whitequark> just to spite you!
<Drup> ಠ_ಠ
<whitequark> every time you mention this, I will send *another one*.
* whitequark emits an evil laugh
<Drup> well, I won't care after opam 1.2
<whitequark> you do realize packages need to opt-in, right?
<Drup> Yes, and sed.
<whitequark> hah
<whitequark> (actually the patch I sent will not warrant a minor revision by itself, I patched it in opam)
<whitequark> (it was some dumb issue with osx's sed)
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<jpdeplaix> whitequark: it seems that if I'm using a different llcontext it is not anymore the same type :(
<whitequark> yes
<whitequark> why do you do that?
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<jpdeplaix> you've said to me that llcontext was about thread safe something
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<VoidTheMonoid> Anyone have any parser experience here?
<Drup> ask away
<Drup> we have at least an expert ruby parser here, he can sure handle anything. (:D)
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<whitequark> jpdeplaix: yes.
<whitequark> what exactly are you trying to do?
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<jpdeplaix> whitequark: nothing special. It just that I preferred creating a new context every time to avoid problems in the futur
<whitequark> oh.
<whitequark> you shouldn't do that.
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<jpdeplaix> ok :D
<whitequark> you should create an llcontext per thread when you do multicore compilation
<whitequark> however, ocaml can't do multicore anyway, so it is pointless
<jpdeplaix> right :D
<VoidTheMonoid> I'm have a large number of audio files. I'm looking to parse their file names, splitting at delimiters, finding the patterns of types string-string-int-char, but there are all sorts of exceptions like ommitied initial vlaues boo_ba_1 boo_ba_1_b, boo_ba_1_c...
<jpdeplaix> whitequark: thanks for the advice
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<VoidTheMonoid> The keywords in the strings should match a list of types or form a new pattern
<Drup> VoidTheMonoid: Sounds like a job for fabulous regex.
<whitequark> woohoo, a comment in French
<Drup> where ? :D
<whitequark> lwt
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<VoidTheMonoid> How would you structure that into an approach to parse the types? Regex has me spooked for a project with some many inconsistent names.
<Drup> Cherry on the cake :3
<whitequark> http://oca dot ml is $500
<whitequark> per year.
<whitequark> someone should buy it
<Drup> VoidTheMonoid: "<something>_<something>_<digit>+(_<char>)?"
<Drup> for the <something>, I don't know enough about the problem ...
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<VoidTheMonoid> I don't know the patterns in advance though and they could vary greatly. Should I use regex to split the delimiters first and then try to figure out the types and generate regex commands automatically?
<Drup> what do the patterns look like ?
<VoidTheMonoid> The delimiters can also vary blah_-_moo 2
<VoidTheMonoid> A_vln-pizzicato-long_67_128_a(2).wav
<Drup> it doesn't fit what you discribed earlier
<VoidTheMonoid> 45C#5 2.aif
<Drup> it doesn't either :D
<VoidTheMonoid> they can be anything at all. I don't know them in advance
<Drup> well, if you don't know anything at all, how do you expect to be able to parse them and extract information ?
<Drup> you need some form of regularity, no magic here
<whitequark> the $1m question
<Drup> so hum, figure out the problem and maybe you will find the solution, but start by figuring out the problem :D
<VoidTheMonoid> I want to first parse the full set of patterns. Then I want to confirm thet the strings are all part of the same sets for a pattern position - otherwise they are different patterns. I'm looking to make a supervised process
<VoidTheMonoid> so for a pattern char_string_in we have {fast; slow} and {red;green;yellow} as the two sets for string representing two patterns.
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<Drup> so, given a set of strings and a set of pattern, you want to find the pattern that fits the strings and then use it to extract the informations ?
<VoidTheMonoid> yes, and if a value isn't matched in a string it prompts the user as to which set it belongs.
<Drup> is it performance sensitive ?
<VoidTheMonoid> I don't think so
<Drup> die and retry then
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<Drup> try the pattern (which is a regex) on everything and if it fits, you're good, if not, try another.
<Drup> you can do more clever by adding lot's of complexity to it.
<Drup> but I really don't think it's worth the trouble
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<whitequark> yay. I removed all pa_optcomp from lwt. took me just ... 14 hours today.
<Drup> whitequark: I think you can use ppx directly on examples
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<Drup> not that much of an issue if examples don't build out of the box on old ocaml versions
<Drup> (I think)
<whitequark> that makes sense
<VoidTheMonoid> sure. hmm. well thinking in terms of regex certainly helps me frame the problem a bit better. One more opportunity to defer leaning parsing :)
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<CaptainRant> Can't ocaml call C lib functions directly, without wrappers and CAMLfoo ?
<companion_cube> with ctypes, I think
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<adrien> errr
<adrien> it's still there but you don't see them
<adrien> it's possible for "float" functions however
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omnomnivore is now known as shallow
<jpdeplaix> whitequark: is it better to call the optimizer at the end, after the linkages or for each llmodules and then for the whole as the first option ?
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