adrien changed the topic of #ocaml to: Discussions about the OCaml programming language | http://www.ocaml.org | OCaml MOOC http://1149.fr/ocaml-mooc | OCaml 4.02.3 announced http://ocaml.org/releases/4.02.html | Try OCaml in your browser: http://try.ocamlpro.com | Public channel logs at http://irclog.whitequark.org/ocaml
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<ollehar> anyone awake?
<ollehar> is there anyway I can transfer my hashtable type information to the runtime system magically?
<ollehar> that is, my gc.
<ollehar> right now I'm trying to generate structs in llvm that holds the type information, but it's hell.
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<struk|desk> ollehar: hashtable information? you mean your data that is contained in a hashtable ocaml datastructure?
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<ollehar> struk|desk: yes. and I want to export it to C during compilation so it can be read by the gc.
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<teknozulu> Hey. Using 4.02.3, the utop from opam segfaults on start. So I removed it and tried to build it from source, however the make install only created lib files, but no executables. Where did I screw up?
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<teknozulu> ugh, got my directories figured out, but this one crashes as well, caused by a malloc
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<struk|desk> teknozulu: theres a nice issue / reddit thread about problems like that..have you seen it?
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<struk|desk> I've also seen it crash when ppx + camlp4 is mixed, but I doubt that is the case for you
<teknozulu> damnit, I just remembered
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<teknozulu> doing eval `opam config env` makes it work
<teknozulu> I just need to put it in my config on this vm
<struk|desk> yep :)
<struk|desk> been there, done that
<teknozulu> I feel like I'm going to need this tattooed on the back of my hand or something.
<struk|desk> I got so sick of that, I now have a shell script which installs ocaml + opam and edits the shell accordingly. but annoyingly, you still have to run that stupid command once in the shell you started everything from. lol
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<ollehar> struk|desk: bashrc?
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<struk|desk> ollehar: I check for the presence of that, yes, or .profile I believe
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<ollehar> hm ok
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<lewis1711> ' (Invalid_argument "invalid index: 0 for array with indices (-2,-1)")' Just got this error message. sometimes I really question using core. it has a lot of things I regard as idiosyncratic. like an array backing a dequeue having two negative indicies
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<struk|desk> ok time to stop shopping for bookshelf speakers for myself and instead do some ocaml...here we go!! ...
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<hay207> hi guys, where to find documentation about list.reduce in my linux system?
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<hay207> yes, but is it documented in system ocaml docs?
<struk|desk> gonna say...I doubt it. its a jane street function..it would probably go as far as it's ocaml doc generation went
<hay207> ok
<struk|desk> hay207: I felt generous, so checked the source. https://github.com/janestreet/core_kernel/blob/master/src/core_list.mli#L195
<struk|desk> not even documented, apparently
<struk|desk> now is your chance to add a PR, and contribute to the greater good, or what have you :)
<hay207> i m still learning, go easy on me :)
<struk|desk> I'm just saying, you could add the ocamldoc there, submit a PR. no reason it shouldn't be documented.
<struk|desk> List.reduce is not in std ocaml lib either, so it shouldn't be assumed behavior
<lewis1711> struk|desk, jane street core are having issues
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<struk|desk> lewis1711: hey they put a smiley face at the end. it's all good. /s
<lewis1711> core has some really good things, and really annoying things too
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<lewis1711> can an Array be re-allocated?
<lewis1711> oh, Array.blit. that will do
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<Drup> if you want a very well documented extension of the stdlib, I would advise batteries
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<hay207> Drup: ok, installed batteries, how to access its documentation?
<sbrouf> is there a way to have a program print the result of an execution, like the interpreter does ?
<hay207> seems quite good, found reduce
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<companion_cube> hay207: sorry to ask, but why do you favor reduce over fold?
<hay207> i just want a good documentation, to learn the language
<companion_cube> sure, but in most cases List.fold_left should work
<dmbaturin> Does anyone use the inotify library? The very example from the docs gives me Unix.EINVAL.
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<companion_cube> sorry, which example?
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<dmbaturin> contempt: The "Unix-style interface" example from the README.md in whitequark's repo.
<dmbaturin> * companion_cube
<companion_cube> hmm, I get EINVAL too
<companion_cube> the lwt API works, though
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<Kakadu> Can somebody explain why opam doesn't tryes to remove package during reinstall? http://paste.in.ua/1112/#44
<Kakadu> I do not see the same lines which I see after `opam remove ...`
<Kakadu> And I get an error about ocamlfind package is already installed because of that
<Kakadu> s/tryes/try/
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<Kakadu> Well, it seems that opam doesn't look at uninstall command from the recipe while reinstall................
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<companion_cube> gasche: superbe email
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<gasche> companion_cube: thanks
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<octachron> I didn't remember that Caml Light had a close module directive
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<ollehar> help. I'm stuck.
<ollehar> can I serialize an ocaml hashtable and access it in C?
<companion_cube> sounds like a very dangerous thing to do
<ollehar> because C?
<ollehar> I wanted to generate type information for the gc, but doing it using the llvm api is...
<ollehar> hard.
<ollehar> looking for alternatives.
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<companion_cube> some people have already tried compiling OCaml into LLVM, but yes, seems like the GC is a problem
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<ollehar> no no, this is still my godless php-compiler.
<ollehar> I just want a quick way to generate type information for the gc on how to collect the structs/classes without methods.
<ollehar> ach, maybe I should just google deeper.
<gasche> ollehar: I would rather serialize an association list
<gasche> it is easy to move from the hashtable to the list on the OCaml side, and then the result is much easier to traverse from the C side
<gasche> (or an array of pairs, for that matter)
<ollehar> gasche: hi gasche. that might be a better idea. no lib for doing that already?
<ollehar> maybe I should just generate the C-code for that. ugh.
<gasche> well
<gasche> both on the OCaml or C side this should only be a couple lines of code
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<gasche> creating an association list is one fold away, and iterating on the list from the C side does require using the OCaml-C FFI, but should not be terribly difficult either
<companion_cube> if it's about serialization, then it would be better to use some neutral format
<ollehar> hm
<companion_cube> for instance, json, or protobuf
<companion_cube> something easier to read from C than the OCaml marshal format
<ollehar> that's a very good point
<ollehar> then I only need a lib in C to read the file.
<gasche> I think it depends on whether the C part runs in the same process and is already supported by an OCaml runtime
<ollehar> no, the C-part is the GC.
<ollehar> it's the language runtime. that needs the type-information.
<ollehar> I might be missing something basic, it's the first compiler I make. ^^
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<gasche> but is the OCaml table generated on the fly while the program is running, or statically at compile time?
<ollehar> statically.
<gasche> well then neither in-memory nor serialization are required: you can just stuff the info in the generated code, can't you?
<ollehar> yes! but it's f-ing hard to do it using the llvm api.
<ollehar> constant pointer to constant structs from constant arrays etc etc.
<ollehar> and come to think of it, having type-information available as json might be useful for other things.
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<ollehar> well, thanks for the tips! :)
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<sbrouf> anyone has an example of how to use the Batteries print functions (on a list) ?
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<ollehar> sbrouf: List.iter (fun p -> print p)?
<sbrouf> yes i'm currently doing something like that ollehar
<ollehar> sbrouf: it's not enough? :)
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<sbrouf> i just hope there would be some way to automatize the transformation of a type to a string.....
<ollehar> sbrouf: that would be ppx_deriving
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<sbrouf> yes the show module could do the job, thanks a lot !
<ollehar> np
<pyon> Doesn't this code violate type safety? http://ideone.com/cxh3MS
<pyon> Foo.foo and Foo.bar are different abstract types, and `qux` has no constructor of type `bar qux`, but that module type checks. :-|
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<Maelan> the fact that you do not have known constructors for an abstract type does not mean you cannot have values of that type
<Maelan> it only means you cannot build such values by yourself, you have to rely on the astracting module
<pyon> Let's say I change the definition of `qux`, in both the signature and the structure, to `type _ qux = F : foo qux | B : bar qux`.
<pyon> Couldn't I do `match (x : bar qux) with B -> "all is fine"` ?
<Maelan> abstract types are not necessarily distinct
<Maelan> so here if you do not match F you will have a non-exhaustive pattern matching
<Maelan> and a match failure
<pyon> Ah, so I always have to cover all constructors, even if I'm matching a value of type `bar qux`, which should rule out the constructor `F`?
<Maelan> since foo qux might be equal to bar qux, i guess so
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<gasche> pyon: inside the module Foo, foo and bar are equal
<gasche> if you want to export types that you know are incompatible, type abstraction is too strong (because it loses this information)
<pyon> gasche: Obviously. But, what about outside?
<gasche> you can use private types
<gasche> well outside nobody knows whether they are equal or not
<gasche> but if you used at the interface, say
<gasche> type foo = Foo type bar = Bar then that would be explicit
<pyon> Ah.
<pyon> In SML, outside of the module, `foo` and `bar` are distinct, period. But I have no idea what OCaml does here.
<gasche> you are confusing "I don't know whether they are equal" and "I know they are different"
<gasche> in SML, you never need to prove disequality, at most you need to prove equality (and for those you fail)
<gasche> with GADTs, as you use here, sometimes you need to prove disequality (or rather incompatibility) to ensure that a case cannot happen
<pyon> Ah.
<gasche> to be able to prove that two things are distinct, they cannot be both unknown
<pyon> Right now, I'm having trouble installing OCaml on my machine, but, if I tried this in the REPL, the exhaustiveness checker would complain, righgt?
<gasche> there is no pattern-matching in your snippet http://ideone.com/cxh3MS
<gasche> yes, it does complain
<gasche> Warning 8: this pattern-matching is not exhaustive.
<gasche> Here is an example of a value that is not matched:
<gasche> F
<pyon> Ah, good.
<pyon> Right now I'm having trouble installing OCaml on my machine, that's why I couldn't try it in the REPL.
<pyon> But that was exactly what I wanted to know.
<pyon> Thanks.
<gasche> why are you having trouble installing OCaml? this is also an issue :-)
<pyon> It's probably an issue with NixOS, rather than OCaml itself.
<gasche> ah
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<pyon> It says it can't download a specific patch from OCaml's GitHub repo. :-|
<pyon> Anyway, I'm going to install it from source directly.
<gasche> we do have a few nixos users, but less than I would like, because this is a cool space to be in
<pyon> Yeah, Nix is very convenient. Screwups are less scary. :-)
<pyon> Anyway, OCaml is building from source just fine. :-)
<sbrouf> ollehar, or someone, is it only me, or is there a slight incompatibility between ppx_show and merlin ?
<sbrouf> Error: This expression has type Ppx_deriving_runtime.string, but an expression was expected of type string
<sbrouf> says merlin, but the code compiles and runs without problem
<sbrouf> (when doing print_string (show_qsqdsqd dqsd) )
<ollehar> unfortunately I don't use merlin
<flux> I don't think merlin yet has real ppx support, but maybe some special magic for some particular extensions?
<flux> actually maybe I was wrong ;-), this one is closed: https://github.com/the-lambda-church/merlin/issues/226
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<sbrouf> ocaml the ppx developper tells me that's a merlin bug ^^
<sbrouf> well anyway all goes well !
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<def`> flux: it has
<Drup> flux: and it works just fine :3
<def`> sbrouf: version?
<Drup> (for lwt, jsoo, deriving, ...)
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<sbrouf> def`, ocaml 4.02.3, merlin and ppx_deriving from opam
<def`> sbrouf: i ll check
<sbrouf> i'm checking to see if uptodate, but it should be
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<sbrouf> def`, merlin and lwt were not uptodate
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<def`> ok try after update
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<sbrouf> def`, merlin : 2.3.1 , lwt 2.5.1 deriving 3.0 , no json. error still there
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