<toolslive>
(if it's tail call optimization then the answer is: "no, it does not guarantee it, but you can have it if you write your code the right way")
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<zaquest>
i wonder what toolslive meant. is it not enough to have a tail call to get TCO? is there something else required?
<steshaw>
LCO is sometimes said to be a generalisation of TCO
<steshaw>
Often TCO is only done for self-recursive functions
<steshaw>
or ones in the same module
<steshaw>
LCO is the idea that any function in the "last position" won't "grow the stack"
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<flux>
well, that holds true in OCaml
<steshaw>
great
<flux>
I've never seen the term LCO though, though I've seen many discussions on the subject :)
<steshaw>
Some would say it's not even an optimisation
<steshaw>
It's just "function call" done right :)
<flux>
tail call elimination is another term I've seen for it
<flux>
well, Guido might have a word about that.. :)
<flux>
I understand his reason for omitting it from python is the effect it has on backtraces.
<steshaw>
ah, apparently you can have your cake and eat it too
<steshaw>
Often it's just called tail calls, TCO, or tail call elimination as you say
<steshaw>
but then there's a list of limitations (such as only for self-recursive functions, not for inter-module dependencies etc.)
<chengsun>
running lambda-term-actions should give the list of action names
<chengsun>
you're probably after "history-prev" and "history-next"
<cheater>
yes
<cheater>
i am
<cheater>
is lambda-term the readline equivalent in ocaml?
<cheater>
Terminal manipulation library for OCaml
<cheater>
ok, so much more than that
<chengsun>
it's what utop uses, yes
<chengsun>
replaces readline and ncurses afaict
<cheater>
lambda-term also includes the readline emu, right?
<cheater>
ok
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<cheater>
thank you chengsun :)
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<aantron>
i wrote some pretty questionable code. i created a pipe to guess the previous file descriptor allocated before that, using %identity to convert a Unix.file_descr to an int so i can subtract 1. feel like i have to go to lambda confession now
<flux>
noooooooooo
<flux>
what do you need the previous fd for?
<flux>
it won't work if someone closed the non-last fd anyway
<aantron>
forcing Lwt_io.close to fail in testing
<aantron>
yes
<aantron>
but i have control over this
<flux>
well in testing and war everything is permitted!
<aantron>
hehe
<aantron>
im most worried about cygwin, mingw, and msvc actually
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<dave24>
when using sexp is there a way to show "type hi = Lol of int list" as "(Lol 2 3 4)" instead of "(Lol (2 3 4))"
<dave24>
so if Lol was a lisp function i want multiple arguments for it, not one list argument
<flux>
probably not. I don't recall sexplib has functionality to change the structure of output(/input)..
<dave24>
ah. oh well
<flux>
but you have the source.. :)
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<flux>
how about just printing/parsing the sexp yourself?
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<flux>
though not sure if it's that easy in general.. you can't just parse all (1 2 3 4) as (1 (2 3 4))
<flux>
there's a reason why the sexp output matches the structure of the data :)
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<dave24>
flux: well, it would just have to be another type: "type hi = Lol of int args"
<flux>
well if it's only for Lol, then you can write a special sexpifyer for that type
<dave24>
oh
<dave24>
whats a sexpifyer
<flux>
:-)
<flux>
it's been a while since I've used it, but instead of "with sexp" or whatever just write a function sexp_of_hi : hi -> Sexplib.Sexp.t
<flux>
and also the reverse if you need to read them
<dave24>
ah, yeah thats all i really need.
<dave24>
thanks a lot
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<flux>
good luck :)
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<toolslive>
in a C binding, I received an ocaml value that has type "Ctypes unit ptr". what is its memory representation ? (I want to get the raw pointer in C )
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<toolslive>
(I'm glueing 2 C++ librarries together using ocaml as the pass through medium)
<toolslive>
(really, don't ask me why :( )
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<edgimar>
I'm trying to build the ocaml website with make, and getting a "ocamlfind: Package `netstring' not found" error -- I am new to ocaml, and am not sure how to resolve this -- I tried using opam for this, but that's apparently not the right way.
<Kakadu>
edgimar: AFAIR it is in ocamlnet opam package
<Kakadu>
toolslive: I think that you need to destruct this value somehow in OCaml side to get something more simple
<edgimar>
oh, ok -- is there a way I can find out what packages I would need for other packages? (i.e. how would I be able to figure this out should I encounter another missing package error?
<toolslive>
the simplest I can get in ocaml is the Ctype unit ptr....
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<Kakadu>
do you use revised syntax, btw, toolslive ?
<Kakadu>
no, forget this questions
<Kakadu>
*s
<Drup>
edgimar: unfortunatly, there is no real way. Fortunatly, 90% of the time, the name is the same
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<toolslive>
revised syntax of what ?
<edgimar>
hm, that's strange. one would think that opam would (or should) have a search command that will search for package names that are embedded in opam packages... Is this not technically possible for some reason?
<Kakadu>
of camlp4/5. Forget it was stupid question
<hcarty>
toolslive: I had to do this recently... there's a way to get the raw address of the pointer
<hcarty>
toolslive: raw_address_of_ptr
<hcarty>
Gives you a nativeint that you can pass into a manually bound 'external' function
<Kakadu>
edgimar: opam package recipe is a number of instructions to compile stuff. It's hard to get possible ocamlfind's packages after in stalllation
<edgimar>
btw, now that I've installed ocamlnet, my next error message is "`nettls-gnutls' not found", which is also not an opam package name.
<Kakadu>
There is `opam search` which would output ocamlnet package in case all ocamlfind's pacakge will be listed in ocamlnet oopam package description
<hcarty>
toolslive: If you can, though, it may be simpler to write a C stub and wrap that stub with ctypes, if possible
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<Kakadu>
edgimar: ocamlnet has some optional packages in itself. So, I guess if you don't have nettls dev packages on your system opam will not compile some stuff
<edgimar>
oh, so are you saying nettls is a c lib, not ocaml?
<hcarty>
edgimar Kakadu: s/nettls/gnutls/ maybe, in that last comment?
<Kakadu>
edgimar: run `opam show ocamlnet` and look at depopt field
<Kakadu>
edgimar: yep, gnutls
<Kakadu>
edgimar: nettls ocaml package requires some C lib
<toolslive>
it's actually the other way around: I'm inside the C stub, being called from OCaml, and my c function is something like: do_something_in_c( value v){ .....}. The v is actually an ocaml value that comes from another C library that was exposed to ocaml via ctypes. the value IS a unit ptr
<edgimar>
ok, so if I do 'opam install ocamlnet' it appears to build and complete without error, but it silently skips compilation of tls (if the C lib is missing)?
<toolslive>
it's some opaque handle
<toolslive>
so I can do Field(v,0) and things like that, but I need to know the structure.
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<edgimar>
and, by the way, why in the world does compiling the website depend on tls anyway?
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<Kakadu>
edgimar: I don't know what are you compiling
<Kakadu>
toolslive: You can start from reading representation of algebraic datatypes
<hcarty>
edgimar: The tls stuff may be for retrieving remote data - the README indicates that some external resources are pulled down as part of the build process
<Kakadu>
edgimar: Btw, how to install dependencies was mentioned in README
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<edgimar>
I see. And, yes, I skimmed over the README a bit too quickly, it seems. Somehow I assumed that running make would also include all needed tasks (e.g. make deps), but perhaps that's too much work to make it automatically install dependencies when they aren't already available?
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<apache2>
Does anyone have an example of how to do utf-8 decoding using Uutf?
<apache2>
Ah, I got it.
<edgimar>
Kakadu: running 'make deps' did a lot, but still failed to install opamfu and ulex...
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<Kakadu>
edgimar: I don't know. I never compiled ocaml.org
<Kakadu>
you can show errors list, btw. Maybe it is something obvious.......
<Kakadu>
edgimar: any plans to contribute to website?
<edgimar>
and I may also never compile it... it's a pity that compiling it seems to be so tedious. I really wanted to compile it to have a copy offline, and of course if I did see ways to improve things, then I could modify and contribute them.
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<Kakadu>
So, what is the error about ulex?
<edgimar>
unfortunately I'll need to come back to this later... But the error was "camlp4orf: not found"
<Kakadu>
something camlp4-related........
<Kakadu>
weird
<Kakadu>
It is not normal that just compiling a website brings so much pain
<edgimar>
thanks for your help, anyway. until later...
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<hcarty>
infinity0: I haven't, but I think I will give it a try now :-)
<infinity0>
heh
<hcarty>
It didn't work on my first attempt with a library using ctypes - it's causing ocamldep errors
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<hcarty>
Same with another pure-OCaml library
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<hcarty>
Ah, it works if I pin to --dev-repo
<hcarty>
And I just learned that module types can start with a lowercase letter
<hcarty>
Because ocamllint complains if they don't... which seems a little odd given that (almost) every time I've seen a module type name it's been capitalized
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<hcarty>
infinity0: It seems easy to use, at least in its default configuration
<infinity0>
cool. has it uncovered anything unexpected in your projects?
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<hcarty>
I haven't looked in much detail yet and I only tested two relatively small codebases. But it looks like a useful start!
<hcarty>
I want to be able to see the messages via merlin... not sure how to do that
<hcarty>
It would be nice if vim+syntastic showed the warnings while editing
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<struk|desk>
hcarty: agreed that would be cool
<struk|desk>
I would be more tempted to try that with neovim though
<hcarty>
struk|desk: My limited experience with neovim so far has been that "it feels like vim". But I haven't tried anything special with it.
<hcarty>
I was happy to see that, again in limited testing, my existing vn=im configuration just worked
<hcarty>
s/vn=im/vim/
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<malc_>
hcarty: one slash too many
<malc_>
erm no.. my bad
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<Denommus>
hi
<Denommus>
I'm trying to install 4.03.0 from opam
<Denommus>
but I'm getting Error: Files ocamldep.cmx and depend.cmx make inconsistent assumptions over implementation Depend
<Denommus>
what can I do about that?
<struk|desk>
hcarty: I couldn't get merlin + syntastic to work 100% with it yet, but when I do I'm fully switching over from vim
<rgrinberg>
struk|desk: really? it works flawsessly for me
<rgrinberg>
you do need a recent version of python-neovim from pip though
<struk|desk>
thats probably why then
<struk|desk>
thanks for tip
<rgrinberg>
hcarty: try :term utop ;)
<_y>
why switching vim → neovim ?
<_y>
ie what are the differences
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<Denommus>
does eliom/ocsigen have a specific channel?
<rgrinberg>
_y: the most key thing about neovim for vim is deoplete followed by neomake
<rgrinberg>
Denommus: yes #oscsigen exists but it's rather quiet
<struk|desk>
_y: neovim is a rewrite of vim with a sane implementation and api for plugins/maintainence. I specifically want to use for neovim-qt, which has a nice gui wrapped on top and is actively developed
<Denommus>
I was trying to install eliom with my system installation, but I'm getting - camlp4<=4.02+6 is not available because your system doesn't comply with !preinstalled & ocaml-version >= "4.02" & ocaml-version < "4.03". - js_of_ocaml<2.0 is not available because your system doesn't comply with ocaml-version <= "4.01.0".
<Denommus>
should I install ocaml with opam instead?
<rgrinberg>
Denommus: Yes - always.
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<Denommus>
rgrinberg: oh
<struk|desk>
Denommus: yeah listen to rgrinberg. good avice
<struk|desk>
*advice
<Denommus>
I wonder if I can have a nix workflow for eliom in general
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<Denommus>
I didn't remember how awesome merlin is
<Drup>
Denommus: does it matter ? you don't need ocaml installed for deployement.
<Denommus>
Drup: nix is not only useful for deployment, but for isolated development environments in general
<Drup>
opam does that quite well for ocaml :)
<rgrinberg>
Drup: some people dislike learning a new package manager for every language :/
<Denommus>
Drup: I tend to use it for Haskell, Ruby and JavaScript, because it can handler every possible dependency my project might have, including the ones the language-specific package managers can't provide, AND the version of the compiler/interpreter in use
<Denommus>
*it can handle
<Drup>
rgrinberg: most language package managers are terrible.
<Denommus>
Drup: yes, I agree. That's why I try to use nix everywhere
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<hcarty>
rgrinberg: oooooooooo
<hcarty>
rgrinberg: That's pretty slick
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<rgrinberg>
hcarty: yup, you actually paste code between vim buffers and utop properly
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<struk|desk>
sweet rgrinberg you're full of good tips today
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<rgrinberg>
struk|desk: \o/
<rgrinberg>
hcarty: is ppx_deriving_yojson 4.03 ready yet?
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<Denommus>
anyone using ocp-indent in Emacs?
<hcarty>
rgrinberg: Ready as in it compiles and functions. Still doesn't support inline records arguments in variants
<Denommus>
I'm getting "Searching for program: file or directory not found, ocp-indent" when I try to indent
<Denommus>
but opam's bin is in PATH
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<rgrinberg>
Denommus: do you have ocp-indent installed?
<Denommus>
ah, I had to set the exec-path list
<Denommus>
I thought only the PATH environment variable would do
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<Denommus>
what .merlin options do I need to set for a seamless eliom experience?
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<hcarty>
rgrinberg: neovim + deoplete <- Does this work with merlin? Looks quite nice
<rgrinberg>
hcarty: it works but it's not as good as it can be. To make it work real well you'll have to create a merlin deoplete source (written in python)
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<Denommus>
anyone got eliom-base-app installed?
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<hcarty>
Does the new ctypes support for Lwt jobs provide an (at least partial) work-around for the lack of support for releasing the runtime lock when using cstubs?
<hcarty>
Or is it only intended for binding blocking-but-not-CPU-costly code?
<mrvn>
afaik it doesn't support releasing the lock yet
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<infinity0>
i'm trying to match against Map.S.empty and it's giving me a syntax error, is there any way to do this
<infinity0>
or am i forced to use is_empty instead
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<companion_cube>
is_empty, sadly
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<struk|desk>
hcarty: I asked that same question last week and mrvn gave me the same answer :) frustrating isn't it?
<Denommus>
merlin is giving me "string -> unit" for a lot of my queries
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<hcarty>
mrvn: Thanks. It looks like cstubs doesn't, but maybe there's some special magic with the lwt-jobs support? I kind of doubt it though.
<hcarty>
struk|desk: Yep, sticking to foreign/libffi for now!
<hcarty>
If I get a chance to test it I'll report back with how it does or does not work
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<Denommus>
hi
<Denommus>
I'm having trouble using macaque
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<Denommus>
how do I mark that a file in a distillery project needs to be preprocessed by calmp4?