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<jaredly>
So ocamlfind/ocamlbuild create these binary artifacts `.cmo` and `.cmi` and stuff -- is there a way to configure it so these files are put in some temporary directory, or anywhere other than right next to my source files?
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<Algebr`>
ocamlfind doesn't build code, ocamlbuild does
<Algebr`>
and pretty sure there should be a _build directory, at least you get that if you use ocamlbuild via oasis
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<hcarty>
Algebr`: ocamlfind can be used to build - it's effectively a wrapper around ocamlc/ocamlopt/etc
<jaredly>
mmk figured it out. I'm hacking on someone else's project, still very new at things
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<aantron>
yeah, in fact, ocamlbuild drives ocamlfind.. which drives ocamlc, etc
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<AllanDaemon>
another newbie doubt: How do I create functions with variable arguments, like `Printf.sprintf`?
<jun>
you cannot actually
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<jun>
the first argument of *printf family of fuctions is not a string but some magical object whose type encode the necessary arguments
<jun>
by first argument, I mean "format string"
<nore>
These functions are a hack of the typing system
<nore>
Well, technically, you could do it, but you'll need Obj.magic
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<nore>
And some way to know which arguments you need
<nore>
But this will break type safety
<AllanDaemon>
ok... this sound to scary to me dive into by now. Thanks
<AllanDaemon>
*too
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<jun>
with gadt maybea safer way would be to use gadt
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<Leonidas>
yes, I think in OCaml 4 these are type safe because it was re-implemented with GADTs but no idea.
<companion_cube>
nore: please don't give advice including Obj.magic :p
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<nore>
companion_cube: I precised it would break type safety ;)
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<nore>
companion_cube: btw, couldn't there be a way to avoid using it in the code of Printf?
<companion_cube>
say it will break the program* :p
<flux>
there is actually a way to write printf-like-interfaces in any ML language
<flux>
of course it's not quite as convenient as printf
<companion_cube>
Printf doesn't use Obj.magic anymore, afaik
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<flux>
but find "functional unparsing" white paper for showing one idea
<companion_cube>
thanks to GADT
<flux>
nowadays I understand it can be even more succinct.. thanks to GADT
<nore>
companion_cube: oh, it doesn't? I'll read the new code then
<companion_cube>
the format string is transformed into a complex GADt
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<chelfi>
yes, IIUC, the fact that the format string is a string is compiler magic, but if you were willing to pass the "processed" format string explicitly you could implement the behaviour yourself
<companion_cube>
yes
<companion_cube>
it would look terrible though
<flux>
btw, most realistic approach to get the most printf-like experience would be to combine appropriate typing with a ppx syntax extension..
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<mrvn>
process the format string by ppx?
<flux>
let's say [%fmt "%myformat%string] gets converted into some code representing the format string in a type-safe fashion.
<flux>
with the closing " :)
<mrvn>
only slightly less magicy than now
<mrvn>
more obvious that it happens
<mrvn>
One could combine that with gettext support
<companion_cube>
some people already do this with sql, also
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<mrvn>
[%sql "select * from bla where id=%d"]?
<companion_cube>
yeah
<companion_cube>
look at ocaml-sqlexpr
<companion_cube>
(which is neat, and would be even more if it was regularly released...)
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<mrvn>
That would have to type * from the type of blas rows. I would rather not do that through strings.
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<Leonidas>
at which point we would arrive at type providers as in F#
<mrvn>
select ~where=[`Id x] bla
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<companion_cube>
well sqlexpr does type rows
<zozozo>
you have to specify the name and types of the fields you want to get in a query though
<mrvn>
zozozo: names sure, types should come from the name.
<zozozo>
mrvn: well, for that you need to have actual access to the table definition
<companion_cube>
I'm frightened by the thought of what type providers would mean for build systems
<zozozo>
which shouldn't be done in the ppx
<flux>
with pgocaml it means a postgresql server must be available
<flux>
in practice that's been a non-issue for me :)
<flux>
you're going to run tests after building anyway, right?!
<mrvn>
zozozo: In pythons sqlalchemy you define the tables in python and it then creates them in the DB and know what types there are.
<flux>
and in sqlalchemy you don't have compile errors :)
<companion_cube>
and then you have all sorts of migration issues
<companion_cube>
:]
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<mrvn>
companion_cube: you always have those
<flux>
companion_cube, what do you mean with migration issues?
<zozozo>
mrvn: sure, when tou create the table in the same program, it is reasonable, but what about when you want to simply read a table from somewhere else
<companion_cube>
well if the tables already exist, but in an older version
<mrvn>
flux: say you have a text field in latin1 and want utf-8 now
<flux>
companion_cube, well the program is not going to work in that case, probably it's nice to get an error about it :)
<mrvn>
and yes, you get a runtime error if the DB and code mismatch
<flux>
I think the way to properly do with with pgocaml is just create the database from scratch on each compile
<flux>
not compile against production database
<companion_cube>
sure, but it would be nicer, I think, if the compiler uses type providers from the table and fails to compile
<flux>
so the creation script for the database is of course version controlled
<mrvn>
companion_cube: I don't have a running DB on my compile system
<companion_cube>
I imagine so, yeah
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<flux>
maybe the database is called dbname-$(git describe --tags --dirty) :)
<mrvn>
It would be nice to have versioned DB views with converters between them and at runtime it picks the right version.
<flux>
I don't think it's worth playing the compatibity game that hard in the db level
<flux>
what I did was just having a table "version" with one row indicating the table version. and then a bunch of scripts going from v 1->2 , 2->3, etc
<flux>
and you can check if the version is correct when connecting, if you care :)
<mrvn>
flux: Me too. It's a pain in sqlalchemy though.
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<flux>
and combined with pgocaml's versioned DDL that's pretty super, you can just run a script inside a transaction
<flux>
or even all the scripts
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<flux>
mrvn, why is it pain in sqlalchemy? I haven't really used it.
<mrvn>
flux: you can't define two versions of the same table so that you can read the old version and write the new version. At least I haven't found a way.
<flux>
so you mean you cannot write the conversions in sqlalchemy?
<mrvn>
at least not nicely
<flux>
I just did them in sql
<flux>
does that mean you cannot connect two databases at the same time as well?
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<mrvn>
flux: don't think that is a problem.
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<mrvn>
worst case I had I copied the old table into a temp, remove table, reconnect so it creates the new table and copy back.
<chelfi>
mrvn: flux a popular (I think ?) solution to db versionning for users of sqlalchemy is alembic, which basically does what flux describes (stores the current revision of the DB, maintains transitions between revisions, and offers helpers to navigate between revisions)
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<hcarty>
Drup: Regarding yesterday - sorry if I wasn't clear, but that was part of my point. Less experience is something of a virtue for a position like that because they'll more easily see things from a newcomer's perspective.
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<sh0t>
hi guys can you install menhir=20141215 with ocaml 4.03.0 ?
<sh0t>
or is it just me who gets hygiene violations?
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<rgrinberg>
sh0t: wasn't that an ocamlbuild issue?
<sh0t>
I don't know really...
<sh0t>
i am new to ocaml and to all its dev environment :)
<sh0t>
is there a way to solve that?
<rgrinberg>
Sure, use 4.02.3 :)
<sh0t>
eh
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<sh0t>
i am trying to build a project whose readme specifically says to use 4.03.0
<sh0t>
:)
<sh0t>
indeed with 4.02.3 doesnt compile
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<sh0t>
what if i add -no-hygiene to the ocamlbduil command line in the Makefile?
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<gasche>
sh0t: have you contacted the maintainers of the problematic packages (Menhir, Why3)?
<gasche>
if not, *why*?
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<gasche>
instead of spending time here finding work-arounds for just you, I would rather have *them* fix their stuff for you *and everyone else*
<gasche>
it's *trivial* for François to fix the issue with Menhir versions on 4.03
<sh0t>
yeah i have to...i had this problem yesterday and since i am very new i thought it was just be doing something wrong
<sh0t>
*me
<gasche>
(François may not be familiar with the workflow to add patches to existing releases on OPAM, on the other hand.)
<gasche>
well
<gasche>
I don't mean to criticize you, I understand that our 4.03 ecosystem sucks for beginners right now
<gasche>
but the rule is
<gasche>
if you do "opam install foo" and you get a compilation error, *someone else than you screwed up*
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<gasche>
(if opam tells you that it cannot install that package, then it is fine)
<gasche>
it may be the package author, it may be the people that wrote the packaging metadata
<sh0t>
ok, so where should i report the bug?
<sh0t>
:)
<sh0t>
like on the menhir github page?
<gasche>
hm
<gasche>
do I understand correctly that you are actually trying to install why3?
<gasche>
if yes, then you should contact the frama-C people I believe, and they would have to deal with the Menhir issue I guess
<gasche>
err
<companion_cube>
gasche: another possibility would be for opam maintainers to, after the grace period, add upper bounds on packages that still fail to compile on OWS
<gasche>
sorry, the why3 people I meant
<companion_cube>
if maintainers are alive, they would still be able to update and release a version compatible with the new release
<gasche>
companion_cube: are you referring to my email?
<companion_cube>
yes
<gasche>
I think that was a possibility considered in the text , but maybe not clearly enough
<companion_cube>
thatwould also mean that old versions of packages would become upper-bound automatically if they fail to compile
<companion_cube>
I read it quickly tbh
<companion_cube>
but the point is real, I was annoyed by Coq not compiling
<gasche>
obviously I'm not interested in "we'll just upper-bound whenever we want to release", but upper-bounding during the grace period if you consider that properly fixing it is too hard is reasonable
<companion_cube>
(and I have no idea why it fails)
<gasche>
I fixed this yesterday
<gasche>
it's just not in opam yet
<companion_cube>
cool!
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<sh0t>
and it requires me to downgrade menhir...and then it fails
<gasche>
and, at the same time, contact the maintainers of the package that you really want to use (menhir if it's really menhir, but why3 if you want why3), and point them to the issue
<sh0t>
*why3-base
<gasche>
let them deal with what to do (maybe get Menhir fixed, maybe support future Menhir versions)
<gasche>
(in this case I see no reason for them not to easily support the 4.03-ready Menhir version)
<sh0t>
ok :)
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<gasche>
sh0t: feel free to cc: me in your meail
<gasche>
( gabriel.scherer at gmail )
<sh0t>
ok thanks gasche
<sh0t>
i thought i should use a bug/tracking system
<sh0t>
in the inria page
<gasche>
you can also use that if you find one :p
<gasche>
or contact the why3 mailing-list directly
<gasche>
do think of the opam-repository issue in parallel (that's were other people may look for if they encounter the same problem and wonder what's the status)
<gasche>
companion_cube: if you agree with my email, feel free to indicate support in a reply :-)
<companion_cube>
yes, indeed
<companion_cube>
let me just read it more thoroughly
<hannes>
gasche: wouldn't a sensible solution include that weather service / automated builds which find out package X does not work with OCaml-Y to open a PR on opam-repository?
<gasche>
hannes: I would like a system that gives incentives to maintainers to fix the software
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<gasche>
if you make it too easy to add a version bound, you're just delaying the issue
<gasche>
(it's still better as users get installation errors rather than compilation failure, but you still get a crippled 4.0x environment)
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<hcarty>
rgrinberg: cohttp and ppx_deriving(_yojson) do not seem to be co-installable under 4.03.0
<rgrinberg>
hcarty: hmm, so there's a conflict? I've checked cohttp alone on 4.03 btw and it worked
<hcarty>
Something in the dependency chain is forcing an older version of ppx_deriving which is not compatible with 4.03.0
<rgrinberg>
ppx_sexp_conv requires ppx_deriving < 4.0 at this point
<rgrinberg>
So I guess the latest deriving is broken against all ppx_type_conv packages
<hcarty>
But the issue does seem to be a conflict between one of the Jane St packages and ppx_deriving
<rgrinberg>
hcarty: that's b/c it's a ppx_type_conv issue
<rgrinberg>
no need to put the conflict on the individual plugins
<hcarty>
Ah, thanks
<hcarty>
Well that sucks
<rgrinberg>
It should be a trivial fix I think. AFAIK it's just that ppx_deriving's new support for deriving on module types
<rgrinberg>
changes the signature of derivers
<rgrinberg>
if you have an hour to kill and want to fix it...
<hcarty>
Will Jane St accept external contributions? I haven't followed their external interactions on something like this before
<rgrinberg>
they would if diml is around. Possibly trefis as well?
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<hcarty>
Realistically I'd love to fix it but don't have the hour to kill...
<hcarty>
flambda will have to wait til another day
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<Algebr`>
it sucks, i kept getting that ppx_sexp_conv error all day
<rgrinberg>
Algebr`: i fixed the constraints yesterday
<Algebr`>
ah, will try now again
<rgrinberg>
You should at least stop getting build errors now
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<clement`>
Is there a way to use OPAM with a modified version of a dependency? Say I have two packages Main and Dep; Main depends on Dep, and I want to compile Main against my (in-development) fork of Dep. Main has other dependencies, which I don't need to touch. Can I use OPAM to manage the other dependencies an recompile Main as I edit Dep? Or should I install everything manually?
<hcarty>
clement`: "opam pin add dep --dev-repo" or "opam pin add dep <path/url to dep's repository or code>"
<hcarty>
clement`: "opam pin" allows you to point opam to a specific version or instance of a package
<clement`>
hcarty: Thanks! With that solution I'll have to do a full uninstall/reinstall of Main every time I modify Dep, though, right? Also, can I point pin to a folder on my machine?
<gasche>
sh0t: thanks for the report; to quote text verbatim, use ``` on its own line before the text, and again ``` after it
<gasche>
(three backquotes)
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<gasche>
clement`: in this situation I use the package's install script directly when I want to reinstall it without reinstalling its dependencies, and `opam reinstall dep` when I do want to reinstall its dependencies
<hcarty>
clement`: And yes, you can pin to a local directory, or a local git repository
<hcarty>
Or a particular branch or tag in that repository
<clement`>
gasche, hcarty: I see. So essentially I clone Main and build it locally, and I clone Dep separately; then I use opam pin to use the clone of Dep as the install source for Dep. Finally every time I want to test Main with Dep I opam update Dep and I build Main manually. Is that right?
<hcarty>
clement`: If you're modifying Dep and Main, then yes
<hcarty>
clement`: If there is an existing version of Dep that you want to point to (ex. git master on github for Dep) then you can pin directly to that remote source
<hcarty>
Without needing to create a local clone
<clement`>
hcarty: I'm modifying Dep, not Main
<clement`>
The reason for cloning main as well was that I thought recompiling Main in full through OPAM would be slower than recompiling it manually.
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<gasche>
I see no reason why
<gasche>
well
<gasche>
actually I do; recompiling can reuse build products
<gasche>
good point
<gasche>
(is there an option in opam to reuse previous build directories? I understand why it's not the default as starting from a clean slate is more robust)
<clement`>
gashe: Exactly; most of the code in Main is orthogonal to Dep, so it wouldn't have to be rebuilt.
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<gasche>
clement`: so opam has a --keep-build-dir option but I just tried and it actually still swipes it at reinstallation time; I'll open an issue
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<hcarty>
clement`: If you pin a directory I think it uses the directory as-is by default
<hcarty>
Which can cause strange issues
<hcarty>
with builds
<clement`>
gasche, Neat, thanks for checking.
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<clement`>
hcarty, gasche: Thanks; this discussion was very helpful!
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<sh0t>
hi gasche no problem. But where did I have to quote verbatim? Or is it a generic suggestion? :)
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<gasche>
sh0t: you copy-pasted the error message and the markup interpretation of it is rather terrible
<gasche>
but nothing world-breaking, don't worry
<sh0t>
oh thanks!
<sh0t>
ok
<gasche>
(on the ocaml/ repo I would edit directly to add the quoting, but I don't have edit rights on opam-repository)
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<sh0t>
yeah gasche done :) i didnt notice how horrible that looked like
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<bruce_r>
seliopou: when I try to run 'opam install aws', I get this error message back
<bruce_r>
[ERROR] The compilation of aws failed at "ocaml setup.ml -configure --prefix /home/bruce/.opam/4.02.1 --enable-lwt --disable-async".
<bruce_r>
Any idea what is going on?
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<bruce_r>
OK it's not exactly that. If I run 'opam install aws' from scratch, that works, but if I try to pin it, it tells me it needs to be reinstalled, and that's where it fails.
<bruce_r>
It's my first time using pin, I'm not too confident what it's doing
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<bruce_r>
Forgot to mention that the reason why it fails is that it cannot find setup.ml