adrien changed the topic of #ocaml to: Discussions about the OCaml programming language | http://www.ocaml.org | Upcoming OCaml MOOC: https://huit.re/ocamlmooc | OCaml 4.03.0 release notes: http://ocaml.org/releases/4.03.html | Try OCaml in your browser: http://try.ocamlpro.com | Public channel logs at http://irclog.whitequark.org/ocaml
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<rgrinberg> Drup: so are we calling this function witness? it doesn't sit right with me :/
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<pseudo-sue> hey, I'm trying to install a few packages with opam, and the root of the errors i'm getting seems to be that the 'time' command isn't available. anyone know which package i need for this?
<pseudo-sue> oh wait, this was just a strange little test in a configure file. commenting it out, and seeing how it goes...
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<pseudo-sue> rats. no, that doesn't really get me out of the woods. the error I'm getting is 'checking for time... no', and it seems to be tripped by various configure scripts when i try to install certain pkgs through opam. any thoughts, #ocaml?
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<pseudo-sue> specifically, i'm having trouble installing the bitstring.2.0.4 package. when it gets to the configure step, it fails with a complaint about not finding the 'time' command.
<pseudo-sue> i'm completely new to ocaml, so if anyone can suggest a workaround for this, even an obvious one, i'd be grateful.
<copy`> pseudo-sue: What OS/distribution are you using?
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<Drup> rgrinberg: ah, well, I have no better name idea, but I'm not attached to that one
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<rgrinberg> i guess it doesn't matter, since it's marked as experimental we can change it at will
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<rwthompsoniiHaxe> Hello.
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<orbitz> companion_cube: I don't think I do it justice,but I discuss your quickcheck library here: http://blog.appliedcompscilab.com/2016-Q3/index.html#sec-2
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<companion_cube> I'll take a look, thanks for the notification :)
<companion_cube> ah, a fixpoint generator, nice :D
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<companion_cube> orbitz: oh, a small nitpick: you can provide a printing function to QCheck
<companion_cube> optional argument `~print` to `QCheck.make`
<companion_cube> (you can — and should — also provide a shrinker, btw)
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<orbitz> companion_cube: sorry, I know you can it's a wording problem, I'll fix.
<orbitz> I know you can, I just used the wrong words *
<orbitz> companion_cube: fixed!
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<John[Lisbeth]> I am interested in working with a krivine machine
<John[Lisbeth]> can ocaml proivde me with this feature?
<orbitz> companion_cube: Yes I haven't even looked at shrinkers yet. Maybe my next post will cover it.
<orbitz> What's a krivine machine?
<orbitz> John[Lisbeth]: Is it something that you need a special language for?
<John[Lisbeth]> yes
<orbitz> John[Lisbeth]: as someone who is ignorante of krivine machines, how come/
<John[Lisbeth]> well waht I mean to say is
<John[Lisbeth]> you can implement krivine on any turing complete system
<John[Lisbeth]> but I was told ocaml has krivine in part of it's base
<John[Lisbeth]> I want to get access to a pure krivine environment so that I can see how it works.
<def`> A simple krivine machine is trivial to implement in OCaml. If you don't know the topic yet, I don't think looking at OCaml implementation will help you much
<def`> (the Zinc abstract machine is a krivine machine that evolved to better match existing hardware)
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<John[Lisbeth]> I just need access to one but I am reading your pdf
<John[Lisbeth]> it seems to be on the subjectof what I am talking about
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<John[Lisbeth]> the math in the pdf are a little beyond my understanding
<John[Lisbeth]> Do you know of a krivine implementation in postfi notation?
<orbitz> John[Lisbeth]: what are you trying to accomplish by playing with a krivine machine/
<John[Lisbeth]> postfix
<John[Lisbeth]> Really tiny machines
<John[Lisbeth]> + postfix
<John[Lisbeth]> = me a math script kiddie
<orbitz> I'm not sure what that really means.
<John[Lisbeth]> It is really easy to implement math in postfix notation
<John[Lisbeth]> I can almost directly copy over math equations
<John[Lisbeth]> I intend to run postfix on a very very tiny machine. So far it seems krivine is the best candidate. I am also considering warren abstract machine and whicever one prolog uses I forget
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<John[Lisbeth]> I am gonna implement that tiny machine as minimally as possible on two architectures x86 and arm. Then I am going to implement postfix in that tiny machine. and then to solve programming tasks I will type math directly into it
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<John[Lisbeth]> The secret keeping me from it are the four functions that make up krivine.
<orbitz> John[Lisbeth]: it might be worth reading a paper or tow on krivine machines.
<orbitz> But a simple stackbased postfix evaluator can be implemented pretty easily as well.
<John[Lisbeth]> for now krivine is the solution
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<orbitz> Ok.
<orbitz> You should probably read a paper on a krivine machine, ttthen, I woudl guess.
<John[Lisbeth]> The papers really don't make alot of sense to me
<John[Lisbeth]> I think if I had a krivine machine to play with then it would be easier
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<John[Lisbeth]> I've got to copy it from a mathematical notation I can parse is all
<octachron> John[Lisbeth]: math is very rarely written in postfix notation
<John[Lisbeth]> I can convert it to postfix notation really easily in my head
<John[Lisbeth]> it's syntax is not so different from highschool algebra
<orbitz> John[Lisbeth]: are you more interested in learning abotu krivine machines or implementing a postfix calculator/
<John[Lisbeth]> the kirvine machine is more important than the postfix at the current moment in time
<John[Lisbeth]> I just need the four functions in a format I can parse
<orbitz> John[Lisbeth]: have you read this short decription with an implementation in Prolog? http://www.barrywatson.se/lsi/lsi_krivines_machine.html
<John[Lisbeth]> this is great now all I have to do is learn prolog
<John[Lisbeth]> this helps alot thank you
<orbitz> John[Lisbeth]: Is that sarcasm?
<John[Lisbeth]> definitely no
<John[Lisbeth]> my single most improtant goal in my life at this moment is to learn the four functions
<orbitz> Ha, you migth want to reevaluate your life goals ;)
<orbitz> John[Lisbeth]: the prolog doesn't look that bad. And the english description seems suffficient to implement something from.
<John[Lisbeth]> I think what I will do is google the special symbols until I get down to their algebra and logical descriptions
<John[Lisbeth]> and then convert those into polish notation in ans forth
<John[Lisbeth]> and then implement it in ans forth
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<companion_cube> orbitz: https://github.com/c-cube/ocaml-containers/blob/master/src/data/CCFlatHashtbl.ml#L299 for a big test based on qcheck, btw, if you're interested (there is a shrinker)
<companion_cube> (it's for testing a custom hashtable)
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<orbitz> companion_cube: nice, I'll take a look at it
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<dario9> Hey Drup, are you about?
<dario9> Your Tyre library is awesome! I'm using it for an incipient REST framework: https://github.com/darioteixeira/rip
<dario9> RIP is basically a thin wrapper on top of Cohttp that handles most of the boilerplate in writing RESTful servers.
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<dario9> And makes use of Tyre for type-safe resources. I had enough of "stringly-typed" REST frameworks...
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<Algebr`> cool, is this a competitor to ocaml web machine?
<dario9> Algebr`: It occupies the same niche as webmachine, even if I don't like the connotations of the word "competitor"...
<dario9> Though RIP is still very incipient. Webmachine does a tonne of other stuff...
<dario9> (Which may be a plus or a minus, depending on your perspective)
<Algebr`> whats the connotation of competitor other than alternative for the same purposes?
<flux> fierce ruthless war between those two projects?-)
<flux> dario9, looking good! I like how you actually provide an example, not just a meaningless test case ;-)
<dario9> flux: Since I have a history of ranting against the lack of examples in the OCaml ecosystem, I have an obligation...
<Algebr`> +1
<Drup> dario9: nice! Happy to hear that :D
<dario9> Anyway, there's still some shortcomings with RIP. The most glaring one is that Resource.apply does not include protocol+host+port.
<dario9> I'm still wondering about the best way to do it within the limitations of Cohttp...
<Drup> dario9: note that you might be interested by furl, which is still quite wip
<flux> is there a simple solution for writing client-web apps with ocaml? to use alongside with that project?
<Drup> (Also, I would really like your opinion on various tickets on tyre)
<dario9> Drup: Yes. Did you get around the problem with the value restriction?
<Drup> nope
<dario9> Drup: I've shamelessly stole your Tyre combinators idea. See the Path module in RIP.
<Drup> Yes, I can see that :p
<dario9> It's basically Tyre combinators with the addition of forward slashes...
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<Drup> that's pretty much what furl was supposed to do ;)
<companion_cube> "was"? is it dead?
<Drup> companion_cube: well, it's not alive yet
<dario9> Though I'm still not 100% happy with the Path module...
<Drup> dario9: nested tuple sucks ^^'
<dario9> Drup: I'm happy to hear about alternatives. Does Furl have one?
<Drup> Well, yes, but it bumps into the value restriction
<Drup> see my post about difference list
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<dario9> Nested tuples are not too bad in the RIP case, since most RESTful APIs don't go more than 2 or 3 levels deep.
<dario9> The ugly part of Path is that I haven't come up with a way of expressing path more naturally.
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<dario9> The combinators work fine, but are a bit confusing for newcomers.
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<dario9> Ideally, I should be able to express a Path as this: Path.(root / "users" /: Arg.uint)
<Drup> dario9: in furl, it's exactly that.
<Drup> It's not very difficult
<dario9> Drup: OK, I'll need to take a closer look at Furl.
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<Drup> I think I should just put furl into a beta state, release it and have people starting to use it even if some stuff are not perfect yet
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<dario9> Drup: Or make another blog post about it to refresh people's memories. Furl seems full of cool ideas...
<dario9> And it's nice that the OCaml ecosystem has grown to the point where people may not be fully aware of all the cool projects out there...
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<mpenet> Shouldn't native bin compiled under linux x64 jut work on osx 64?
<mpenet> just*
<Algebr`> why...osx is macho, linux is elf
<flux> not to mention the standard library
<mpenet> right
<flux> in other words: no. but perhaps, with luck, with simple projects, the bytecode versions might run, if your bytecode interpreter is at the same place
<mpenet> is there an easy way to cross compile from linux ?
<flux> probably not, cross-compiling isn't really ocaml's forte, though it's possible..
<Algebr`> cross compiling is good for arm
<Algebr`> get a osx vm?
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<mpenet> yep seems like that'd be the way
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<mpenet> or just annoy a coworker to compile for me (for now); not sure it's so easy to run osx in a vm
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<Algebr`> its become easier, I've seen a few os x devs with it
<Algebr`> I do it the other direction, develop on OS X, ssh into local linux vm
<flux> sshfs+ssh make in place of make has worked for me on some non-ocaml projects
<Drup> dario9: in case you missed it, http://drup.github.io/2016/08/02/difflists/
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<adrien> I'm looking for a tool that can give me the value of a field for a given package from a debian/control file
<adrien> for some reason I believe there is an ocaml one to do it
<adrien> (and I'd really like to avoid writing perl)
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<Algebr`> isn't it just a tarball?
<Algebr`> perhaps opam itself has something premade?
<adrien> debian/control is a separate file, plain-text, in a specific format
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<Algebr`> yea, but I mean the control file is usually inside the dpkg right, which I thought was just a tarball, open it and parse it, its just key:value?
<adrien> in my case it is definitely outside of the .deb file
<adrien> since I want to query it to drive the build of the .deb files :P
<adrien> and it's not exactly key: value
<adrien> it's key: value per paragraph
<adrien> and I can't believe there isn't already something to do it
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<Algebr`> its ocaml.
<Algebr`> on the other hand, two package on cursory search in npm
<adrien> yeah but I'm definitely not going to rely on npm for anything :D
<Algebr`> netflix seems to be doing okay....facebook....but I digress
<adrien> I've seen ruby gems and there's a perl lib
<adrien> Algebr`: unlike them I don't have a dozen people to maintain its deployments
<adrien> :)
<Algebr`> we laugh at those ecosystems and then scratch our heads when there's no ocaml code for basic stuff.
<adrien> but seriously, if you know how to handle npm, pease come help us with etherpad light deployments
<Algebr`> is that contract remote work?
<adrien> free :P
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<Algebr`> heh, I'm trying to desparately wrap my iOS reverse engineering work so I can play with BS more intensely.
<adrien> but it's quite telling that you need paid people to barely keep an npm-based application alive :)
<Algebr`> heh
<freehck> Hi.
<freehck> Is there some IRC server implementations written in OCaml?
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<reynir> freehck: I found this, but it looks (very?) incomplete https://github.com/nojb/ocaml-ircd
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<freehck> reynir: Not sure. It seems this code is written specifically for Mirage.
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<flux> it's not compatible with plain unix then?
<flux> I think people should release libraries that do only the parsing and generating part of these protocols
<flux> such as irc, http, nntp, imap, pop, etc
<flux> but I guess even if those existed (http is doing pretty nice with those url parsers?), they would all be very different
<flux> that ircd seems to be written in very direct way, ie. it produces string fragments straight out of the functions
<freehck> flux: afaik Mirage provides the only possibility to create Xen unikernels, so I doubt that it can be used in the normal Unix environment.
<freehck> Do I mistake?
<Algebr`> you can build for unix, pretty sure
<Algebr`> or run on plain unix
<Algebr`> someone will correct me
<flux> I too believe that's the case, though I haven't used Mirage
<flux> in any case, looking at its main function, it seems it would be pretty easy to port to run on "standard" sockets
<freehck> Even more, ocaml-ircd uses 'foreign "Ircd.Main"'. I see it's a part of Mirage, but I really don't understand what it is.
<flux> uses how/where?
<yomimono_> this particular repository is a bit strange, yeah
<flux> I think that's used for configuring the mirage kernel, not the irc server
<yomimono_> even in mirage-land we prefer to make libraries for whatever protocol, then specific unikernels that use it to do something specific
<flux> but I think if you want a working irc server for OCaml within the next hour, your best bet is to take that and modify it to unix Unix sockets ;)
<yomimono_> I strongly suspect that project won't build with modern mirage, but you could give it a try with `mirage configure -t unix`
<flux> seems pretty cool if the micro-kernel-ability was preserved, though, if that project were to be carried on
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<hannes> another partial irc server is at https://github.com/ahf/ircd-scylla ... looks like it's popular
<flux> for mirage as well :-)
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<Algebr`> openmirage == mirage right
<yomimono_> yeah, technically mirageos
<yomimono_> but w/e
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<ahf> i think it was called openmirage when i looked at it :o
<ahf> PR's will be accepted :-P
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<Algebr`> ha
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<freehck> % ocamlfind query tls
<freehck> ocamlfind: Package `tls' not found
<freehck> While "mirage configure --unix" in scylla directory. :/
<freehck> Can't find it. People, help?
<freehck> Hm... Maybe I forgot to update environment.
<reynir> ahf: is ircd-scylla used in baconsvin ?
<ahf> reynir: no, we use ircd-charybdis
<ahf> reynir: skylla was because i wanted to toy around with mirageos
<ahf> to see what it was
<ahf> i'm really impressed with how easy it was to get started. i mostly code erlang and i'm very much not used to ocaml
<ahf> skylla is the only "real" ocaml program i've written i think
<ahf> (there is still a lot to do on skylla)
<reynir> Cool!
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<Algebr`> writing so much objective C, I'm gonna write an OCaml lib to do some objective-c introspection
<Algebr`> need my sanity
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<Algebr`> althought I really wish ocaml had a fatter runtime, at times, so much cool stuff one can do in objc that you can't in ocaml
<Algebr`> perhaps the intersection of ocaml and objc is basically me
<companion_cube> probably ^^
<Algebr`> derp
<companion_cube> did you take a look at swift?
<Algebr`> i did, not worth it
<ggole> It seems what we need is, uh, objective objective caml?
<Algebr`> yes, objectively
<reynir> or objective ccaml
<Drup> Algebr`: swift ? ^^'
<Drup> At least it's sanner than objective C
<Drup> eh, nvm, missed the last few messages
<Algebr`> its not useful to me, for the things I need, and if you thought haskell from six months doesn't compile ....
<Algebr`> it can't make C object files, talking to C++ is too much a pain
<Algebr`> but yes, there's at least a type system
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<flux> I thought someone had written a general URI router for OCaml, does this exist?
<companion_cube> furl ?
<notdan> TIL you can easily bundle any modules together with `ocaml -a` and `ocamldep`
<flux> well yes, that's it. y u no opam!
<companion_cube> unreleased, I think
<flux> but I was actually wondering if dario9's rip should rather make use of it
<Drup> flux: I would like that, ultimately, yes
<Drup> make furl the goto uri router, then build the rest on top of it
<flux> has this been communicated with darion9?-)
<Drup> flux: look at the backlog :D
<flux> I mean he mentions on reddit that Path may be reworked greatly
<flux> oh, so he refers to that then?
<flux> seems like he's considering lifting ideas but not implementation quite yet?-)
<Drup> well, morally, he's already using the stuff from furl, just that it's inside tyre :D
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<flux> I'm thinking of a future where same code might get moved from one web server interface to another, something as central as url routing would be a great start ;-)
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<Drup> flux: please do add that comment on the reddit thread :p
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<copy`> Here's my profiler: https://github.com/copy/rmp (cc Algebr` mehdib)
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<Algebr`> awesome, thanks
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<rgrinberg> Drup: newapi is much better