adrien changed the topic of #ocaml to: Discussions about the OCaml programming language | http://www.ocaml.org | Upcoming OCaml MOOC: https://huit.re/ocamlmooc | OCaml 4.03.0 release notes: http://ocaml.org/releases/4.03.html | Try OCaml in your browser: http://try.ocamlpro.com | Public channel logs at http://irclog.whitequark.org/ocaml
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<octachron> bcc32, this specific manual shortcoming should fixed in the upcoming 4.04 release (see https://github.com/ocaml/ocaml/pull/564)
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<argent_smith> btw is there any OCaml extraverts? I mean, some chat/forum where the people share algos/ideas in OCaml rather than pinging the collective mind for bugs solving? ;)
<argent_smith> s/is/are/ )
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<Onemorenickname> hi people
<Onemorenickname> i get a type error on https://ghostbin.com/paste/8sbuq
<Onemorenickname> argtest is expected to be of type [`G of 'a], but I can't see why
<Onemorenickname> i got that, it's because filter has type 'a -> 'a
<Onemorenickname> so it unifies the input and output types
<Onemorenickname> even though i expected a refinement through the filter
<Onemorenickname> how can i "enforce" a type then ? like a cast
<jnavila> Onemorenickname: why do you enforce the type of filter_g?
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<Onemorenickname> jnavila, i need a [`G of 'a] list for the rest of my code
<jnavila> Onemorenickname: I understand, but the match in filter_g will "make the cast" for you
<ggole> The return type of List.filter is the same type as the argument, so you aren't going to be able to refine that way
<Onemorenickname> jnavila, no, it does not
<Onemorenickname> ggole : how can i cast the result then ?
<ggole> There's also another issue which you might not be aware of: because of the type of filter, ocaml will *unify* the types [> `G of 'a] and [`G of 'a], resulting in [`G of 'a]
<ggole> In short, you need to write the loop yourself
<ggole> (Or apply a refinement function after the fact.)
<Onemorenickname> ggole, yep, that's what i understood
<Onemorenickname> (<Onemorenickname> i got that, it's because filter has type 'a -> 'a
<Onemorenickname> <Onemorenickname> so it unifies the input and output types)
<Onemorenickname> but, there are no way to cast in ocaml ? akin to the admit in coq ?
<ggole> There are subtyping coercions
<ggole> Or you could use something unsafe, but I wouldn't do that.
<Onemorenickname> what are the "unsafe" alternative ?
<ggole> Obj.magic, basicaly
<ggole> Don't use it
<Onemorenickname> why so ? it looks like that's the right function for what i need
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<flux> basically you never want to end up in a situation where your code crashes to segmentation fault and then find that there is an instance of Obj.magic in it.
<ggole> There are no guarantees about its behaviour
<flux> this goes for libraries as well..
<ggole> There's one possibility
<ggole> Another is to fuse the refinement and filtering
<ggole> Basically, reimplmenting List.filter
<Onemorenickname> ggole : but isn't it silly to either reimplement List.filter, or go again through the list to typecheck something we know to be true statically ?
<Onemorenickname> (i've done so with map, because I did not know about obj.magic, but it's bad code)
<ggole> 1) not if you need a more precise type than List.filter can provide 2) not if you don't want to reimplement List.filter
<ggole> Unfortunately if you want both you are left unsatisfied.
<Onemorenickname> i see
<Onemorenickname> because i don't want to reimplement list.filter for every refinements types i need
<ggole> Hmm. You could write filter_map, which might be more usable.
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<ggole> This is a function of type ('a -> 'b option) -> 'a list -> 'b list
<ggole> The differing type variables provide the ability to do some refinement, which is not possible with List.filter
<ggole> It's not in the stdlib, but isn't hard to define.
<Onemorenickname> ggole, that's a nice alternative
<Onemorenickname> i was using "map" to do the refinement
<Onemorenickname> but i did not think about merging it with filter through an option tyoe
<Onemorenickname> type *
<Onemorenickname> thank you :)
<ggole> It's a bit annoying to have to do what is essentially manual fusion to work around limitations in the language
<ggole> But, that's programming for you.
<Onemorenickname> Ha ha :D
<Onemorenickname> ofc it's annoying, but once you know how to do that in a modular and readable way, that's good enough
<Onemorenickname> thanks for the code sample !
<ggole> np
<Onemorenickname> sometimes i'm like "i'm going to write code in f* or idris and seriously learn them", but so far, i'm sticking with ocaml
<Onemorenickname> hm, i need to write something like the inverse type of what i had just done
<Onemorenickname> but i don't know how to express it
<Onemorenickname> it's basically [anything|`G of 'a] list -> [same_anything] list
<ggole> Sounds like you could use a subtyping coercion for that
<ggole> If i understand right
<Onemorenickname> let f be that function
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<Onemorenickname> if i apply to f the argument arg:[`A|`G] list, I want to get something of type [`A] list, and if i apply to f the argument arg:[`B|`C|`G] list, I want to get something of type [`A|`B] list
<ggole> Hmm, I think that would be trouble
<ggole> There's a row variable in polymorphic variants, which it seems you want to use, but you can't name it in OCaml :(
<Onemorenickname> oh.
<Onemorenickname> hm, with an other type ?
<ggole> Ideally you would be able to say something like ['r | `G] list -> ['r] list
<Onemorenickname> like, type 'a 'b withg = ['a | `G of 'b];; and f: ('a 'b withg) list -> 'a ?
<Onemorenickname> but i get a syntax error, and i don't know why
<ggole> Yeah, you can't put type variables there
<ggole> I'm not quite sure what the reasons for the limitation are, but it's quite annoying.
<Onemorenickname> hm
<Onemorenickname> well, what i wanted to do won't work if i can't do that
<Onemorenickname> i will have to make x versions of the function
<Onemorenickname> omg
<Onemorenickname> # type ('a,'b) withpcon = ['a | `Pcon of ('b * 'b)];;
<Onemorenickname> Error: The type 'a is not a polymorphic variant type
<Onemorenickname> let rec pcon_to_lst (arg: ['a | `Pcon of ('b * 'b)] list): ('a list) = match arg with
<Onemorenickname> -> "'a is not a polymorphic variant type" :'(
<ggole> Yep.
<Onemorenickname> it looks like i won't be able to do that
<Onemorenickname> and there are no intersection type in ocaml
<Onemorenickname> so i will have to rewrite the function
<Onemorenickname> ...
<ggole> It really seems like you want row polymorphic sum types, and polymorphic variants just aren't that.
<Onemorenickname> (i don't know what are row polymorphic sum types)
<ggole> What you're going for here, basically :)
<Onemorenickname> Polymorphic variants with intersection ?
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<ggole> If you have a sum type A | B | 'c, or a record type { a : int; b : float; 'c }, where 'c is a variable that stands for the rest of the things in the record/sum, the variable is usually called a row variable
<Onemorenickname> i see
<Onemorenickname> what i want is indeed polymorphic sum types
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<Onemorenickname> but is not that the same as polymorphic variant ? as sum are the same as variant ?
<ggole> Yeah
<ggole> But OCaml has this annoying limitation in that you can't name the row variable
<Onemorenickname> and there are no canonical workaround to that ?
<Onemorenickname> (it sounds so silly when you put it that way)
<ggole> Not really
<Onemorenickname> hm
<Onemorenickname> by the way, how do you know about this limitation ?
<Onemorenickname> because the error message only says that it's not a polymorphic variant type
<ggole> I've tried much the same thing in the past
<Onemorenickname> i can understand it, it's a universal quantification, and there exists types which are not polymorphic variant type
<Onemorenickname> but in "let rec pcon_to_lst (ghost: [>`X] as 'a) (arg: ['a | `Pcon of ('b * 'b)] list): ('a list) = match arg with
<Onemorenickname> ", 'a is indeed a polymorphic variant type
<Onemorenickname> i see, and what did you do finally ?
<ggole> Gave up and used regular variants
<ggole> I was trying to get some kind of refinement effect where you could say "this constructor can't happen"
<Onemorenickname> (if i use regular variant, i'm f... up : too many intermediary syntaxes :'(, i guess i'll repeat my code)
<ggole> But it wasn't worth it.
<Onemorenickname> i understand
<Onemorenickname> but i'm working with formula transformations
<Onemorenickname> and that kind of guarantee is worth it : it's the point of my code basically ha ha
<ggole> Yeah, avoiding impossible cases is great where you can do it cleanly
<Onemorenickname> thank you for your help :)
<ggole> No worries
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<Onemorenickname> ggole,
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<Onemorenickname> there are no variable for row polymorphic types, so be it, i have to do multiple type definitions
<Onemorenickname> there are no intersection types nor overloading, so be it, i have to do multiple FUNCTION definitions
<Onemorenickname> but, the worst : the type inference for the case match is broken
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<ggole> Yeah, only some refinement is done. You could write the last case as: | (`X _ as x) -> [x]
<ggole> And that would type check.
<ggole> But it gets pretty clumsy if you have many cases rather than just the one.
<ggole> Usually you would use match abbreviations for that, though
<Onemorenickname> ggole, my problem is that these will be different for each function definitions
<Onemorenickname> aka : i can't only copy-paste, i will have to rewrite each function, for each type that my variable in the row polymorphic variant could take in my program
<Onemorenickname> this is good design.
<ggole> Yep. If you can have many of those, it doesn't really work well.
<Onemorenickname> i just got a one-page-long error with 6 "as-types" defined
<Onemorenickname> I guess I'll continue coding tomorrow
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<Onemorenickname> hi people
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<Onemorenickname> is there any performance downside when using polymorphic variant type ? (compared to classic variant types)
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<Drup> yes, it's a little bit slower
<Drup> and a little bit bigger in memory
<Onemorenickname> Drup : where can i see why ?
<Drup> only significant if it's right in the hotloop, doesn't matter otherwise
<Drup> I'm not sure it's really specified in the documentation :/
<Onemorenickname> Drup, oh, I see. How do you know it so ?
<Drup> eh, the memory representation ._.
<Drup> If you are curious, you can use the "inspect" package to look at it
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<Onemorenickname> Drup : No canonical doc I guess ? :'(
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<Onemorenickname> thanks :)
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<Onemorenickname> ggole : this is, cool.
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<aantron> Drup: +1 for tyxml 4.0.1 :)
<Drup> should have done that months ago
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<Onemorenickname> hi people
<Onemorenickname> it's me again
<Onemorenickname> with some typing issues
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<Onemorenickname> (as. always)
<Onemorenickname> i can't understand this error : http://pastebin.com/UNqcVz7x
<Onemorenickname> in my pattern matching, i match all values required
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<smondet> Onemorenickname: it seems you have one extra level of "_ list": to_tokenize is itself a list and your function takes a list of to_tokenize (hence a list of lists).
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<Algebr> What does it mean when a external has two names for the linker?
<Algebr> external foo : unit -> unit = "abc" "cde"
<adrien> Algebr: bytecode and native code versions
<adrien> calling conventions differ once there are 5 or more arguments roughly
<Algebr> ah right right
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