ChanServ changed the topic of #picolisp to: PicoLisp language | Channel Log: https://irclog.whitequark.org/picolisp/ | Check also http://www.picolisp.com for more information
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<viaken> It was actually lovely, beneroth, so thank you. :)
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<tankf33der> o/
<tankf33der> Regenaxer: ping
<tankf33der> this is grid and code to find shortest path between cells.
<tankf33der> very slow on this size of grid.
<DKordic> beneroth: [[https://xkcd.com/1305/][Undocumented Feature]] :D .
<DKordic> XKCD Check.
<DKordic> Greetings everyone.
<tankf33der> i wonder how to make it faster.
<tankf33der> i should not store and pass pathes, only number of steps
<Regenaxer> Hi tankf33der! Sorry, was away
<Regenaxer> Hmm, yes, old problem
<tankf33der> insane hard for me.
<tankf33der> as usual.
<Regenaxer> Needs another algorithm, not brute force
<Regenaxer> Nothing seems too hard for you ☺
<tankf33der> but for such small grid bfs should be ok, right ?
<tankf33der> this is not 200Mx200M cells.
<Regenaxer> Have you checked Dijkstra's algorithm?
<Regenaxer> Also in Rosetta
<tankf33der> checking.
<tankf33der> found, didnt know already solved. OK.
<Regenaxer> I don't remember the details atm
<tankf33der> thanks.
<Regenaxer> ☺
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<tankf33der> reimplemented on counters without lists
<tankf33der> this grid runs bfs in 0.1secs
<tankf33der> if i add one line it runs in 17secs
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<tankf33der> gif of animation
<tankf33der> of course it run for ever.
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<tankf33der> afk.
<Regenaxer> See you tankf33der! ☺/
<beneroth> DKordic, nice, I didn't know this xkcd. sounds nearly like a real story..
<beneroth> Hi Regenaxer :)
<[rg]> hello folks
<beneroth> hi [rg]
<Regenaxer> beneroth, indeed no f... video ads :)
<Regenaxer> hi [rg]!
<beneroth> Regenaxer, I'm all in for abolishing ALL ads
<Regenaxer> Me too
<beneroth> it's zero-sum games using psychological attacks
<beneroth> and big waste
<beneroth> making people aware of options can happen in trade journals.
<[rg]> google would not have made as much if it was paid right?
* [rg] wonders if that was the idea all along
<clacke_movim> Google is an ad network that also provides search engines, communication solutions and other services to deliver users to the ads.
<[rg]> do i have options in picolisp before I use classes?
<Regenaxer> For example?
<[rg]> a polynomial is a list of numbers, with the empty list denoting the 0 degree polynomial
<[rg]> not sure how I would represent that
<[rg]> or just define functions to take explicitly a list
<Regenaxer> Yes, just a list. OOP makes sense if you want inheritance
<[rg]> hm ok, used to having special distiction for my own types, but this works too
<Regenaxer> Well, you can do that, why not?
<Regenaxer> Then a polinomial would be an object
<[rg]> ohh ok
<[rg]> yeah I understand now
<Regenaxer> Makes sense perhaps
<Regenaxer> encapsuulating local data and behavior
<beneroth> or just use plain picolisp symbols
<Regenaxer> Yep
<[rg]> brb computers gonna die
<Regenaxer> But as far as I understand, a plain list is enough
<beneroth> but than the entire tasks seems simple!
<beneroth> :D
<Regenaxer> No idea about the 5G frequencies
<beneroth> oh and the Mozilla failure apparently also wrecked the TOR browser: https://lists.torproject.org/pipermail/tor-talk/2019-May/045116.html
<beneroth> though well, I think that was a (understandable) mistake by the TOR project...
<beneroth> this is probably the worst failure of Mozilla this decade (and there were a lot)
<[rg]> what functions should I learn to implement from the library to understand picolisp better?
<[rg]> when I studied miranda it would show most implementations in the standard library
<beneroth> which library? you mean the built-in functions or what=
<beneroth> ?
<[rg]> yeah picolisp builtins
<beneroth> best way to learn a programming language in general: try to make a small (= manageable) project with it
<beneroth> my first picolisp project was a small ToDo-Webapp I still use
<beneroth> hm
<beneroth> difficult question
<[rg]> well what first projects carries the ideas of a lisp well?
<[rg]> i've thought of making the ping command to learn more about tcp but not sure if that's ideal for a first project in picolisp
<Regenaxer> Hmm, the key is that the theme must fascinate you
<beneroth> T
<beneroth> btw. ping is not part of TCP :P
<[rg]> themes that fascinate me are above my level haha
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<[rg]> it's not? oh
<[rg]> thanks
<beneroth> [rg], I recommend you to start with something easier than low-level networking, e.g. writing your own webserver: https://jmarshall.com/easy/http/
<[rg]> so something like a key value database, in picolisp you would just leverage the picolisp db?
<beneroth> yes - which is more powerful than key-value (but could be used as that)
<[rg]> this looks good, thanks beneroth
<beneroth> I learned http this way :)
<beneroth> and http is all in all really a rather easy protocoll (except maybe MIME-parsing required for processing file uploads)
<[rg]> ok here's another thing
<[rg]> in unix land, you make a program then you get a binary, so I can see doing a server that way to be simple
<beneroth> you can look into @lib/http.l und https://bitbucket.org/iromero91/web.l/wiki/Home as a comparison, but maybe try yourself first
<[rg]> for picolisp I need to bring up the interpreter every time?
<Regenaxer> yes, but it starts extremely fast
<[rg]> like what does sharing a picolisp program look like
<beneroth> usually copying a folder :)
<Regenaxer> $ time pil -bye
<Regenaxer> user 0m0.004s
<Regenaxer> real 0m0.008s
<Regenaxer> sys 0m0.004s
<beneroth> compare it to Java, java binaries are also nothing else than ZIP files interpreted by the java runtime vm
<beneroth> picolisp VM is way smaller and starts alot faster than java
<[rg]> oh ok
<[rg]> what about manipulating picolisp processes, its still the same?
<Regenaxer> I have lots of #! scripts
<Regenaxer> #!/usr/bin/pil
<[rg]> so a daemon in picolisp is essentially running the interpreter and evaluating code correct?
<Regenaxer> right
<[rg]> if you have multiple daemons can they all be handled by a single interpreter process?
<Regenaxer> you would (fork) then
<Regenaxer> must go, bbl
<[rg]> c ya, and thanks
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<Regenaxer> ret
<beneroth> wb Regenaxer
<Regenaxer> :)
<Regenaxer> rick42, is your article https://the-m6.net/blog/fixed-point-arithmetic-in-picolisp.html offline?
<beneroth> we should teach rick42 about HTTP 302
<beneroth> or better HTTP 301
<Regenaxer> Thanks!
<beneroth> you're welcome :)
<Regenaxer> I'm just citing it in the mailing list
<beneroth> cool
<beneroth> yeah the blog post from rick42 is truly awesome :)
<Regenaxer> indeed, a perfect intro
<beneroth> really helpful for people with weak math knowledge like me
<Regenaxer> And these questions pop up every few weeks
<beneroth> hmm
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<beneroth> ah, I saw now
<beneroth> Regenaxer, good mail :)
<Regenaxer> Perhaps a bit too short, but I'm tired ;)
<Regenaxer> So the link to Rick's paper should do
<beneroth> nah, seems good to me
<beneroth> T
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