ChanServ changed the topic of #picolisp to: PicoLisp language | Channel Log: https://irclog.whitequark.org/picolisp/ | Check also http://www.picolisp.com for more information
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<Nistur> mornin'
<beneroth> Good morning Nistur
<beneroth> how are you? typing with penti now?
<Nistur> I'm alive :P
<Nistur> and not yet. I still need to re-print it. I've been distracted by printing other things (eg presents for people)
<Nistur> and I printed some fixes for an old christmas carousel pyramid thing
<Nistur> also, we've established that MiniNisturette's first language is not English, it's not Belarusian, or German, it's lisp
<Nistur> one of the words she can understand and say, is "car"
<beneroth> always nice to hear someone alive from the UK island. the odds are getting worse :P
<beneroth> oh
<beneroth> very good
<beneroth> you got a pico lisper :D
<beneroth> what about 'cdr' ?
<Nistur> not yet :P
<Nistur> and yeah, felt like death the last few days
<Nistur> thankfully not the current plague
<Nistur> it was actually "only" a sore throat
<Nistur> but felt like swallowing razor blades
<Nistur> and that caused pretty much no sleep since Friday night
<Nistur> so most of the death was lack of sleep
<Nistur> \o/
<beneroth> you got a test?
<beneroth> how difficult is it? I heard in early autumn it was quite difficult to get one in UK, has that improved?
<Nistur> no, I checked symptoms online, and said that a covid sore throat is almost always "dry and itchy" which this definitely wasn't. I had a phone appointment with my doctor who said that unless I got other symptoms, not to get a test, because it isn't COVID
<Nistur> I think there's a shortage of tests
<Nistur> not sure
<beneroth> yeah there is. primarily testing staff is the bottleneck everywhere afaik (not material like in spring)
<beneroth> covid symptoms are all over the place, hard to tell
* Nistur shrugs
<beneroth> but yeah, well possible it was something else. I had symptoms and wasn't covid yet. but then there is not so many ways I could get it, fortunately.
<beneroth> the gov fuckup is epic
<Nistur> I have had zero other symptoms. Not even a temperature really (very mildly raised, but that was only at night time). No lack of taste or smell. Sure, there's fatigue, but that's more likely to be because of the lack of sleep...
<Nistur> but yeah, government here seems to be screwing everything up :)
<beneroth> Yesterday I procrastinated by diving into the swiss test criteria for testing kids, and they even had a list of 10 studies as sources for their claim that "kids are not a driver of this pandemic"
<beneroth> I looked into all of them, turns out they're based on testing data (in switzerland, china, all over the place) coming from symptomatic cases.
<beneroth> so if the "kids get less symptoms"-thing is true, than their conclusion is circular
<beneroth> but then again the swiss kids testing criteria was not updated since November. and there was recently this study from a school in Germany where genom sequencing proved that the source of infections were not wildly diverse (what was claimed before, that those kids just got them outside of school) but from a single person
<beneroth> Swiss government is trying to go as minimal and delayed as they can
<beneroth> and all the local canton goverments and other agencies struggle with each other, nobody wants to take decisions or responsibility
<beneroth> German federalism currently works better than the swiss one
<beneroth> what really upsets me is also the quality of journalism, fakenews in mass media etc.
<beneroth> but then again UK is even more fun there afaik
<beneroth> Nistur, we will need your 3D printing skills to build the picolisp drone army :P
<Nistur> oh!
<Nistur> I printed one
<Nistur> or, one and a half
<Nistur> I'm going to start ordering the guts :P
<Nistur> https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:873144 also printed this tail
<Nistur> https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:664260 also going to print the quad body, then when I have the parts, I can find out which configuration I like
<Nistur> the body isn't expensive, it turns out. I'm printing it in fairly inexpensive PLA though, to be fair, and it comes in at something like £3 worth of plastic
<Nistur> if I print it in nylon/carbon fibre, it goes to about £12, but to be fair, I'd probably only print the arms in that...
<Nistur> and before I _could_ print in that, I need to upgrade my hotend/extruder
<Nistur> but yeah, if you want drones printing out, I can totally do that :D
<Nistur> the electronics are up to you though :P
<Nistur> ... that body has _plenty_ of space inside it though
<Nistur> we could totally get an mcu in there, accelerometer, gyro etc... not enough space to put cameras, image recognition etc, but could do some basic AI, so you _could_ technically have a drone running on picolisp?
<Nistur> beneroth: I'll provide the body, you provide the brains? :P
<beneroth> sounds like a plan :D
<beneroth> my gf works in electronics, but I have yet to lure her into doing hobby projects
<Nistur> \o/
<beneroth> \o>
<beneroth> (no idea why this guy smells his armpits...)
<beneroth> and there is pilOS, it's basically finished, just needs a bootloader, hardware management, a TCP stack... so basically finished :P
<Nistur> pilDroneOS :D
<beneroth> what about smaller bodies? if it should be picoDrones? :D
<beneroth> the smaller the harder everything is, I'm aware
<Nistur> um
<Nistur> I m ean
<Nistur> s/m ean/mean/
<Nistur> there are tiny programmable drones
<beneroth> swarm programming :P
<Nistur> Hrmmmmmmm
<beneroth> lol your links
<beneroth> look like cpu coolers from 10 years ago xD
<beneroth> (now the coolers are bigger)
<Nistur> heh, 10 years ago I added a Coolermaster Sphere to my PC build
<Nistur> I wonder if you could swarm like 20 of them with one host to manage them all
<beneroth> or no host, distributed swarm control
<beneroth> or, which is swarm AI field, simple logics which follow instructions passed on by other swarm members
<beneroth> nice possibilities
<beneroth> room for exciting fuckups
<Nistur> the problem there is that I think the drones themselves don't really have enough processing power
<beneroth> in distributed database it's called "split brain" problem when two parts of the database-network become separated and each part believes to be the valid one and the other to be down (while only network connection between them is broken), and so they start to change in conflicting ways
<Nistur> although, if you could make them swarm entirely, that would be VERY cool
<beneroth> I saw such a system over 10 years ago at CCC (congress), but that was not with drones but small ground bots, who could move on the floor and very crudely orient by light (lamp on one end of the field)
<Nistur> also slightly terrifying
<beneroth> oh yes
<Nistur> ESPECIALLY if you let the swarm propagate updates
<beneroth> I'm terrified everytime I see those awesome boston dynamics demo videos
<Nistur> :D
<beneroth> yep
<beneroth> that is the core idea
<beneroth> or also emergent intelligent behaviour while each swarm member has rather stupid simple instructions
<beneroth> a bit like bird swarms forming an efficient flight formation, or fish swarms, where each member synchronizes the behaviour with its neighbour plus some slight modifications according to their position in the swarm, and you get.. amazing stuff
<Nistur> yeah
<beneroth> a leader is not necessary. but more accurate and more efficient of course
<Nistur> there were some videos about 10 years ago, let me find them
<Nistur> I'm certain they had a host
<Nistur> but still
<beneroth> chaotic in-time adaption is much harder, but much more robust once you got it working (necessarily, as robustness in error correction is their way to gain any efficency at all)
<beneroth> like cell biology stuff
<beneroth> man the world will be complete different when you and me are old farts
<Nistur> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YQIMGV5vtd4&t=1m8s That's the kind of things that terrifies me :P
<Nistur> This guy had one video where there were larger ones going through a window
<Nistur> but I can't find it
<Nistur> it just reminded me of almost every single scifi game/movie with drones and drone-like things, with guns slung underneath them
<Nistur> just the motion
<beneroth> yeah, didn't know this vid
<beneroth> this stuff is coming with rapid speed
<beneroth> the first instance will not be military skynet stuff (even what that is certainly a leading development), but maybe delivery and police drones first (in the UK anyway, country with the most cameras) and then followed by media/journalist drones if general fly allowances become a thing
<beneroth> (just my wild guesses)
<beneroth> Nistur, next level in this arms race will then be drones with enough processing power to hack other drones mid-air :P
<beneroth> stealing delivery drones is anyway like catching random loot boxes, no? :D
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<Nistur> :D
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<Nistur> beneroth: I work in my attic. I have a window in my attic. My goal, eventually, is to be able to fly, using an FPV headset, out of the window, around the garden, through the allotment at the bottom of the garden, and back to my attic :P
<Nistur> the tricopter I printed, using the recommended battery, gets about 9 minutes flight time...
<beneroth> nice goal
<beneroth> yeah flight time is an issue
<beneroth> do you know anything about zeppelin-like designs? so less battery would be required for floating alone? such a thing exists in one of the old cyberpunk novels from Gibson, dunno if anyone considers this
<Nistur> The problem with lighter than air craft is... the gas needed to make it lighter than air...
<beneroth> yeah.. well hydrogen should be easy to create, but then again that stuff made the zeppelin design blow the first time around
<Nistur> BOOM
<beneroth> maybe usual helium for party balloons would work?
<beneroth> that should be obtainable, I'd guess
<beneroth> or hot air ballon, with a camping cooker xD
<beneroth> long boot time but hey
<Nistur> heh. Well, 3D printers can print in 'vase mode' which is just a very thin, single layer around, so you'd probably print a front and back separately, with a cutout for a valve, then coat the inside in something to seal it, glue front and back together, and you have something to hold your helium
<Nistur> also
<Nistur> wind.
<beneroth> hmhmmm... I see
<tankf33der> will try run pil21 under llvm12
<beneroth> thx!
<tankf33der> mpech@ubuntu:~/pil21/bin$ strings picolisp | grep -i clang
<tankf33der> Ubuntu clang version 12.0.0-++20210105052629+f26bc0ddd508-1~exp1~20210105163330.275
<tankf33der> compilation works.
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<tankf33der> all test suite passed except:
<tankf33der> stem and ht:Fmt
<tankf33der> i never run pil21 on normal llvm on ubuntu here, so i cant compare. later.
<tankf33der> this is how stem fails:
<tankf33der> : (stem (chop "abc/def\\ghi") "/" "\\")
<tankf33der> -> ("a" "b" "c" "/" "d" "e" "f" "\\" "g" "h" "i")
<tankf33der> should be ("g" "h" "i")
<tankf33der> afk.
<beneroth> many thanks tankf33der!
<Regenaxer> yes, thanks tankf33der!
<Regenaxer> Strange, how such function can depend on th LLVM version
<Regenaxer> Is it possible that the heap is mis-aligned?
<Regenaxer> (if (atom X)
<tankf33der> but so many functions are correct
<tankf33der> i will test llvm11 next week on that ubuntu
<Regenaxer> yes, this is the strange thing
<Regenaxer> all depend on heap alignment
<Regenaxer> interesting anyway
<Regenaxer> May also be a bug relevant to 7 - 11, just not visible always
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<beneroth> [OT] (in case you haven't heard yet) Terrorists take over the US parliament https://twitter.com/cspan
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