<qi-bot>
[commit] Werner Almesberger: Cleaned up z0 plane input/output. Note: need to change fx in all .sfy files ! http://qi-hw.com/p/cae-tools/1638123
<qi-bot>
[commit] Werner Almesberger: Correct z0 for z vs. xy scale differences. Now things work as planned ! http://qi-hw.com/p/cae-tools/6acca4e
<wolfspraul>
my mind is still stuck at your last 3D mail where you asked for help on how to go from the scan to a solid 3D model. I guess you passed that already now?
<wpwrak>
wolfspraul: well, i'm half way there. i more or less solved the alignment problem. what i still don't have are proper solids for cad.
<wolfspraul>
hmm, I see.
<wolfspraul>
impressive pictures nonetheless
<wpwrak>
wolfspraul: what i can generate is pov-ray output. that's a format i'm familiar with. not sure how difficult it would be to get into a cad system. i have functions that let me resample a mesh, so in the worst case, i could just generate a lot of "toblerone"-like columns
<qwebirc27425>
Hi Wolfang, I'm Pietro, the guy that has locked the Nanote; I've the carnonized rubber. I'm now in my office, the Nanonote is at home; if is more convenient that I've the Nanonote in my hands I'll rejoin the channel tomorrow.
<wolfspraul>
qwebirc27425: yes sure, when you are at your nanonote come into this channel and we will help you.
<wolfspraul>
don't worry we will 100% definitely guaranteed unbrick your nanonote
<wolfspraul>
worst case you send it in, and we reflash it or (in the unlikely case that it's a hardware problem), exchange it
<wolfspraul>
but I am optimistic, since you come to this channel, good English etc. we can do it together here
<wolfspraul>
qwebirc27425: the only problem is timezone, I am typically in irc only until about 3 PM or so your (Italian) time. after that there are other folks here that may help you though, just try...
<wolfspraul>
if you stay up late, I should be back online 2-3 AM your time :-)
<qwebirc27425>
OK, fine, I'll rejoin the channel tomorrow morning, around the current time [sometime at 2-3am I'm working, but not always :-) ]; many many thanks again, Pietro
<wolfspraul>
cu
<qwebirc27425>
worderful pictures, cu
<qwebirc55417>
need to add shortcut of console on desktop . How can I do it
<kyak>
see /usr/share/gmenu2x/sections/applications/ for examples
<tugasoft>
hello all
<tugasoft>
good morning (paris local time)
<tuxbrain>
good mornig (spanish loacal time :P)
<kyak>
Ben is taking over the Europe
<tuxbrain>
FSM hears you kyak :P
<qwebirc55417>
if i copy the vim in /usr/share/gmenu2x/sections/applications/ will i get the vim shortcut on desktop ?
<tuxbrain>
no not working this way qwebirc55417
<tugasoft>
Ben is take over europe, I agree :)
<qwebirc55417>
then hwo can I add Vim or Nano file editor on desktop
<kyak>
no offence, but when i'm reading such messages as from qwebirc55417, i indeed understand that wolfgang was right that Ben is not only for geeks
<tuxbrain>
in usr/share/gmenu2x/sections/applications/ there are some little text files with a description and the path of what to execute
<tuxbrain>
you must create one of this text files for the vim launcher to appear in the on screen
<qwebirc55417>
thats ok but what is the solution to my prob
<qwebirc55417>
fine got it
<tugasoft>
yesterday my nano was bricked. with the help of a few people here i was able to make it work with usbboot again
<tugasoft>
now I've juste flashed a new debian
<tugasoft>
but it seems that it is still not booting
<qwebirc55417>
how can I launch console from desktop
<tugasoft>
if i boot it with the U pressed i can use the usbboot -c "boot" and result is successful
<qwebirc55417>
in fedora its konsole what is there in Nanonote ?
<tugasoft>
but then, if i try to boot it by itself, nothing happens
<tugasoft>
any idea?
<tuxbrain>
I debian is the most common bricking cause of NN, I recomend you to flash  Openwrt or Jlime, since debian is not very supported now
<tuxbrain>
qwebirc55417: you can press ctrl+alt+f1 to f4 to access a console , ctrl+alt+f5 will return to grafical menu
<tugasoft>
ok
<kyak>
tugasoft: how do you boot it "by itself"?
<tugasoft>
kyak: i mean puting the battery and powering it up
<tugasoft>
then, nothing happens
<kyak>
you do press and hold power button, right?
<tugasoft>
yes
<tugasoft>
i've triedpessing for about 10 seconds
<tugasoft>
the screen is always dark
<kyak>
is the battery fully charged?
<kyak>
try to boot it like this with usb cable plugged in
<tugasoft>
i don't know how to check the baterry level, but it is higly probable that the  baterry is very low
<qwebirc55417>
nope i want to open a console from desktop without human intervention i.e select a icon and press x to open the console
<tugasoft>
i've tried with th usb plugged and with at least 3 different usb cables
<kyak>
if it boots successfully with U button pressed, it should boot without it (at least show something on screen)
<tugasoft>
i will wait for the battery to charge a few hors
<tugasoft>
maybe it is fully discharged
<kyak>
you've sucked off all the energy from your Ben :)
<tugasoft>
:)
<tugasoft>
or I may have damaged the screen :(
<tugasoft>
i will see later
<kyak>
i will not see :)
<kyak>
*or will not see
<kyak>
but ok, assuming your screen is dead
<kyak>
you can still ssh to your Ben or at lest see it show up in dmesg
<tugasoft>
how can I know if it is only the screen?
<tuxbrain>
tugasoft: great, we have some NanoNote/arduino and arduino/procesing projects on our Pre-todo list , pending on start on some actual items on our TODO list, I'm really  happy to see there are other dealing with the NanoNote/Arduino tandem
<tugasoft>
tuxbrain: I'm happy to find out that there are more poeple interested in those both tools
<wolfspraul>
tugasoft: your nanonote boots but the screen stays dark?
<wolfspraul>
that's not good
<wolfspraul>
if you boot from NAND, u-boot should immediately initialize the LCM and display something, and you should always see that
<tugasoft>
hello wolfspraul
<tugasoft>
mi lcd seems to be dead
<tugasoft>
:(
<wolfspraul>
what have you flashed into NAND last?
<wolfspraul>
are you sure that there is a working u-boot in NAND?
<wolfspraul>
tell us a bit about the history of your NanoNote. when did you get it? first it worked. then you reflashed (what?), now the screen stays dark?
<tugasoft>
last flash was successful, with a debian image from pyneo
<tugasoft>
nowe i'm flashing back to openwrt
<wolfspraul>
he, at least you get more confident in flashing things back and forth, good :-)
<wolfspraul>
when was the last time you saw something on the lcm?
<tugasoft>
got my new nanonote last week, openwRt worked
<tugasoft>
but I wanted debian, old habits :)
<tugasoft>
then after a few tries i was able to flash it with debian, it worked
<wolfspraul>
'it worked' means it booted, you saw something on the lcm, etc.
<wolfspraul>
then what happened?
<tugasoft>
after a reboot that bricked it I was able to make it work with the help from this #channel people, but now after a successful flash, screen stays off
<wolfspraul>
ok but why do you say 'successful flash'?
<tugasoft>
my linux box seems to detect something
<tugasoft>
if flashed with no errors
<wolfspraul>
how did you flash - reflash_ben.sh?
<wolfspraul>
or manual commands in usbboot?
<tugasoft>
reflash_ben.sh
<tugasoft>
i mean, I've just tried it
<tugasoft>
the previous ones were with usbboot -c "...."
<tugasoft>
dmesg shows me a usb0 device
<tugasoft>
reflash_ben.sh worked
<tugasoft>
but my lcd is still black :(
<tugasoft>
i can log in
<tugasoft>
with telent
<tugasoft>
telnet
<tugasoft>
so it IS the LCD that died
<tugasoft>
i can connect to the internet with the NN. it is actualy working
<tugasoft>
if somebody nows how to check my LCD, I would appreciate help :)
<kyak>
but it's actually cool
<kyak>
you are now forced to use ssh
<kyak>
isn't it great? :)
<wolfspraul>
tugasoft: oh well
<wolfspraul>
I find it a little strange that your LCM problem started right after some reflashing, but from the symptoms you are reporting right now I'd say we need it back to fix it, or send you a new one.
<wolfspraul>
if you are good mechanically, you can try to lift off the plastic part around the keyboard, and disconnect/reconnect the FPC coming through the hinge to the mainboard
<wolfspraul>
but it may not be worth the trouble, and in fact you may damage something in that exercise, which would make it harder for us to find the root cause later
<wolfspraul>
tugasoft: where did you buy your NanoNote?
<tugasoft>
sorry, went for a sandwich
<tugasoft>
wolfspraun: got my NN @ hackable-devices
<tugasoft>
i think i can open safely the device
<tugasoft>
I have a reasonable experience in dealing with small devices
<kyak>
tugasoft: you should never say such things to women ;)
<tugasoft>
:D
<tugasoft>
small _electronic_ devices :)
<tugasoft>
being forced to use ssh seem to be my curse :D and it is actually cool
<tugasoft>
and geek
<tugasoft>
I feel so proud
<tugasoft>
actually the absence of screen is not a problem at all
<wolfspraul>
tugasoft: he
<tugasoft>
i don't want to delay the project, so I will try to see if re-plugging the LCD flat cable works
<wolfspraul>
well I still want to focus to get the NanoNote 100% back to what is is 'supposed' to be
<wolfspraul>
delay the project?
<wolfspraul>
reporting bugs is a great way to push the project forward
<wolfspraul>
well let's just try then
<wolfspraul>
you need to unscrew 4 screws on the back
<wolfspraul>
after that, you can lift off a plastic piece that sits around and above the keyboard
<wolfspraul>
tugasoft: still there? another sandwich?
<tugasoft>
yep, here
<tugasoft>
sorry
<tugasoft>
I'm in the office
<tugasoft>
and it get a little busy now
<tugasoft>
by project I mean my project, which involves the NN
<wpwrak>
"why not say it here" ? huh, contradiction ?
<wolfspraul>
but then fedex is a courier, all about speed. so the deal is: fedex _randomly_ pulls out 1% of packages, and hands over to Chinese customs
<wolfspraul>
they are not allowed to pull out 'certain' packages, or let the packages of some customers pass 100%
<wolfspraul>
a random 1% is pulled out, and then 'normally' will never be reclaimed by anybody
<wolfspraul>
nice system, everybody gets something to do, everybody's face is saved
<wpwrak>
wolfspraul: 0x1db5 /* IDBG in DFU mode */
<wpwrak>
wolfspraul: 0x1db6 /* IDBG in normal mode */
<wpwrak>
wolfspraul: that's all so far (i think :)
<wpwrak>
(fedex system) ;-))))
<wolfspraul>
'why not say it here' because with public logging I'm sure fedex wouldn't like this kind of arrangement to be widely known, but whatever...
<wpwrak>
i particularly like that people simply give up when that happens
<wolfspraul>
oh sure
<wolfspraul>
the only problem is if you send a truly unique and valuable something, and then it's in the 1%
<wolfspraul>
that sucks
<wpwrak>
yeah
<wolfspraul>
if you send loads of fake goods it's actually nice, just add 1% to the sales price :-)
<wpwrak>
just make two :)
<kristianpaul>
:)
<wolfspraul>
but even though the actual package handling is entirely in the hands of fedex (though their entire warehouse is full with govt cameras), they would never dare to make some packages pass 'for sure'
<wolfspraul>
that's their part of the ugly deal
<wolfspraul>
1% has to be 1%, randomly, "in front of justice we are all equal" (ahem)
<wpwrak>
well, they can leave the details of negotiating the bribes to the customer :)
<wpwrak>
they must have something similar in argentina. fedex generally incurs a lot less trouble than, say, dhl.
<kristianpaul>
life is 1% random, isnt? ;)
<kristianpaul>
wolfspraul: did you miss some nanonote with fedex recently?
<kristianpaul>
miss/lost
<wolfspraul>
no we never use Fedex China
<kristianpaul>
ah ok :)
<wolfspraul>
I just mention the story because of werner's hilarious kingdom of anythingosia and the democratic bureaucracy of restrictia
<wpwrak>
wolfspraul: after learning about the "deal", will this make you more or less inclined to use fedex ? :)
<wolfspraul>
wpwrak: hmm
<wolfspraul>
hard to say. no change. if needed I know the system, and it's great that fedex tells the system to their customers.
<wolfspraul>
they are not supposed to, their entire building, warehouse, office, reception area, all is fully and officially bugged
<wolfspraul>
welcome to the kingdom of anythingosia
<wolfspraul>
since I know the system, I would also just send easily replacable (i.e. standard) goods through the system, and write off the 1% without bothering
<wolfspraul>
if you think about it, this system is really perfect. exactly fits the needs of all participants :-)
<wpwrak>
i still have the battery and the pcbs to do, though.
<wpwrak>
alas, i don't think i have the metal that goes on the top. well, i could try to scan a cover with it and then subtract. maybe that even works :)
<wolfspraul>
wpwrak: yeah yeah. [micro sd]
<wolfspraul>
it's a typo
<wolfspraul>
it's mean to read 'flash memory card'
<kristianpaul>
wpwrak: for crosscopile you blink/poke i just need to export the mipsel_gcc and no more isnt?
<kristianpaul>
s/for/to
<wpwrak>
yup. just make CC=whatever
<lisandropm>
wpwrak: I sent you a mail a few hours ago about the measuring thing
<lisandropm>
just to let you know in case the spam filter catches me ;)
<wpwrak>
checking ...
<wpwrak>
nothing there :-(
<wpwrak>
lisandropm: to which address did you sent it ? werner@openmoko.org ?
<wpwrak>
aah, to werner@almesberger.net
<wpwrak>
lisandropm: INTI ... so that would be in buenos aires (capital federal) ? or are they also in bahia blanca. or is this not inti.gob.ar ?
<viric>
Hello all
<kristianpaul>
hello viric
<viric>
I'm just trying to run a kernel for 'malta' with a mtdblock I built with the mtdtools in ubifs
<viric>
In qemu
<viric>
The kernel has support for mtd devices, but it shows no mtd devices at boot. I think I have to set up something in the kernel command line
<viric>
Or maybe prepare the file for mtdblock specially.
<viric>
anyone can help me a bit? :)
<viric>
uhm
<viric>
I think the malta machine has no NAND emulation
<kristianpaul>
sorry i dont  know
<kristianpaul>
what is malta btw?
<viric>
a mips machine
<wpwrak>
lisandropm: i'll be afk for a bit. ~2-3 hours.
<kristianpaul>
mth: do you wich port is TP24 and TP7?
<kristianpaul>
are in my list of free pins and also i soldered TP25 now i dont remenber wich port is it..
<mth>
you mean how to program it or which physical pin on the IC?
<kristianpaul>
last
<kristianpaul>
TP25 is  GPB30
<kristianpaul>
but Tp24?..
<mth>
see page 14 of jz4740_ds.pdf
<mth>
actually, the tables on page 15 and on are more readable
<mth>
I don't konw where you get the name TP24 from though
<kristianpaul>
but how it follow the TP24 track
<kristianpaul>
ahh
<kristianpaul>
i tought i was asleep
<kristianpaul>
heh
<kristianpaul>
gn8
<rozzin>
OK, so...
<rozzin>
I'm trying to lift the corciutboard out of my NanoNote...
<rozzin>
and there there seems to be a firm connection between the board and the case at the audio-jack.
<rozzin>
Am I mistaken, or am I about to break something?
<wolfspraul>
hmm
<wolfspraul>
there may be a little adhesive somewhere if I remember correctly, around the speaker
<wolfspraul>
is that what you mean?
<wolfspraul>
the audio jack itself reaches into the plastic, so you have to shift it sideways a bit to pull the board up
<rozzin>
And is that ribbon-cable actually soldered onto the board?
<wolfspraul>
watch the small LED lightguide on the other side - easily lost
<wolfspraul>
which ribbon cable?
<wolfspraul>
have you disconnected the FPC cable coming from the LCD through the hinge?
<rozzin>
Not yet.
<rozzin>
I mean to ask if that's actually possible.
<wolfspraul>
the rest is all one piece (at first, the speaker is held with 2 screws to the mainboard)
<wolfspraul>
well... do you know what you are doing? :-) (if I may ask)
<wolfspraul>
of course everything is possible, but we would not want to break the device in the process..
<rozzin>
It certainly appears that the smaller branch of the ribbon-cable is attached to a soldered part.
<rozzin>
Indeed.
<rozzin>
I'm trying to dike out the microphone.
<wolfspraul>
which ribbon cable?
<wolfspraul>
ah, I think the speaker has 2 cables running to the mainboard
<wolfspraul>
you mean those?
<wolfspraul>
yes they are soldered to the board I believe
<rozzin>
The only ribon-cable that's apparent to me, right now--coming through the hinge and attaching on tht top of the board next to the microphone.
<rozzin>
Not the speaker, the microphone :)
<wolfspraul>
oh
<wolfspraul>
do you call that a 'ribbon cable'?
<rozzin>
I'm fine with the speaker.
<wolfspraul>
that's what I meant with FPC
<wolfspraul>
a flat cable
<rozzin>
Ah, yes.
<wolfspraul>
typically called FPC (flat printed circuit) or FFC (flat flexible circuit)
<wolfspraul>
the FPC goes into a connector
<wolfspraul>
you can lift off the little black part of the connector, then pull it out
<rozzin>
I see that one part of it does, anyway.
<wolfspraul>
but be careful, especially if you are not regularly doing this kind of stuff
<wolfspraul>
you need to pull out the fpc away from the connector, not upwards
<wolfspraul>
also you need to open the latch of the connector first
<rozzin>
Right;
<wolfspraul>
why do you want to do this in the first place?
<rozzin>
But the cable is forked--what about the other branch?
<wolfspraul>
forked? other branch?
<wolfspraul>
don't understand you
<wolfspraul>
if I remember correctly there may be a small part of the cable 'forked' and on the side of the connector
<rozzin>
There's a `no recording devices allowed' policy where I want to use my NanoNote.
<wolfspraul>
it has no function, I think
<rozzin>
yes, that's what I mean.
<wolfspraul>
no need to touch the LCM or LCM cable then
<rozzin>
Oh, hah--
<wolfspraul>
focus on the microphone
<rozzin>
right, it's not actually connected to anything.
<rozzin>
Well, I notice that the microphone simply lifts out
<wolfspraul>
I don't have an open board in front of me right now.
<rozzin>
And I could simply snip the wires *right there*.
<wolfspraul>
but I think it's right of the LCM cable?
<wolfspraul>
yes sure, just take it out
<wolfspraul>
should work
<rozzin>
Seemed like a dubious idea to have those wire-ends floating freely in the case, though.
<rozzin>
No?
<rozzin>
Suggestions as to how I should ensure that the freefloating microphone wires don't make conact with something that they shouldn't?
<wolfspraul>
not really, maybe someone with more hardware skills has an idea
<wolfspraul>
btw, I'm curious: so your place does not allow recording devices
<wolfspraul>
but it must be restricted in hardware, not software?
<rozzin>
Right.
<wolfspraul>
if you remove the sound modules from the kernel, that's not enough?
<wolfspraul>
I guess what matters is that nobody actually records (if anything matters at all, and the rule is not just to keep the security dept busy).
<wolfspraul>
how can anybody check that you physically removed the microphone?
<wolfspraul>
you will open the device to show it?
<rozzin>
If asked.
<wolfspraul>
if someone demonstrates that he has hardware hacking skills, doesn't that alone already increase the risk?
<wolfspraul>
what if you soldered a new microphone to some free pads elsewhere?
<rozzin>
Well, what's the converse situation?
<rozzin>
That I'm asked to hand over the device, it's opened for inspection, and hardware capabilities are discovered.
<rozzin>
?
<wolfspraul>
I understand.
<wolfspraul>
but let's say you have a kernel on the device that has no recording support
<wolfspraul>
they don't like that kind of 'restriction' because they cannot check it?
<wolfspraul>
or they assume you will fire up your vi editor on the device, hack a new kernel driver, compile and load it into the kernel?
<rozzin>
It's easier to just dike the hardware out and be able to say `it is physically incapable of recording', and not have to even worry about whether anyone would even be able of appreciating the concept of software `disables'.
<wolfspraul>
sure, I don't suggest you argue with them
<wolfspraul>
I'm just thinking
<wolfspraul>
if I have 2 devices
<wolfspraul>
one has a microphone, wires 'clipped off'
<wolfspraul>
but software is fully capable of recording
<wolfspraul>
the other one has a microphone attached, but no kernel sound support, and no source codes/compiler on it either
<wolfspraul>
which one is easier to get to record?
<rozzin>
I'm not even going to try to fathom how their minds work :)
<wolfspraul>
on one, you have to re-attach the wires
<wolfspraul>
on the other one, install software (maybe from a microsd card)
<rozzin>
I've learned to avoid trying too hard to reverse-engineer people's brains.
<rozzin>
I've encountered some where I'm pretty sure that, if I brought myself to fully appreciate how they thought, I'd become a less capable engineer.
<rozzin>
I could tell you about the way one of my wife's employers specified schedules for their employees, and both of our IQs would drop by 50 points.
<wolfspraul>
ok that's convincing. we stop here. :-)