<fusin> good morning qiots
<kristianpaul> morning fusin
<kristianpaul> how do you get in to the "qiot" word btw? :-)
<fusin> slowly, much to much to do ;)
<fusin> mainly use gmu
<kristianpaul> gmu is nice
<fusin> yep, but to be honest, I think buying Ben was an error
<fusin> (except of suporting the idea of course)
<kristianpaul> yeah, why?
<fusin> for end users it is better to use android phones and tablets
<fusin> or good old psion S5 :D
<kristianpaul> fusin: it depends of end-user requirements
<fusin> i really miss a road-map, like pE the roadmap @ ReactOS
<fusin> well, what is the goal of ben?
<fusin> device that powers and size, i can only see as PIM-Device, and little 'GameBoy' tool
<kristianpaul> i like carry music on it
<fusin> no one would realy use it to programm or to make 'serious' wordprocessing or?
<kristianpaul> also some comics ;-)
<fusin> well, indeed, gmu is my main appliance atm. And Sokoban :D
<kristianpaul> ah, thats good, i dont see the bad poing of buing the nanonote if you get fun that way
<wolfspraul> fusin: it's rare that a Ben buyer comes here and says it was an error!
<wolfspraul> although I would estimate at least 30% of our buyers will feel like that after a week maybe...
<kristianpaul> takes notes is good, i cant imagine run a wordprocessing software even if the sytem could handle all the processing
<wolfspraul> not that I am proud of selling to those guys, the lower that number the better
<kristianpaul> until they found JLime ;-))
<wpwrak> wolfspraul: time to send the black ops ninjas ;-)
<wolfspraul> if you compare with Android, or you think about 'end users', then of course I totally agree
<fusin> perhaps i should try JLime, but I think the main goal is still full open-source, isn't it??
<wpwrak> fusin: jlime is fully open source
<wolfspraul> yes try jlime, maybe you can try booting from sd first
<fusin> wolfspraul: why should i think other way? isn't ben not meant to be used by 'End-Users'?
<fusin> if not, why making a nice case?
<fusin> for development a naked board, with all connectors accesible is more accurate..
<wolfspraul> it is [end-users], but today it needs to be an end user that cares a lot about free software
<kristianpaul> i dont see comparison with android, remenbering this is a multipurpose OS
<kristianpaul> remenber this little computer was a dictionary, now i can do more than that
<fusin> kristianpaul:  i not realy compare with Android, But from an End-Users view, i must. Coz what does interest an End user? the device has to do something well. For now, the only real usefull is Music-Player. For that money, there are cheaper players Outside. Ben will never be able to compete there.
<fusin> I think there is a need to position Ben somewhere. Even if it is a 'niche'
<kristianpaul> fusin: oh, sure i agree with turnkey solutions, something the ben is not now in the software side
<fusin> i gues, making an good calculator, which run graphicaly could help
<fusin> also a gui for DGClock which fits with the Gui from Gmenu.
<fusin> stuff like that :D
<kristianpaul> you really should try Jlime,
<kristianpaul> from sd is nice, indeed
<wolfspraul> fusin: I see you think in practial small steps (DGClock gui), that's good :-)
<wolfspraul> practical
<fusin> I will try someday, altough I didn't like it on my HP Jornada 568 :P
<kyak> fusin: you just haven't found your use for Ben (yet)
<wolfspraul> one thing to keep in mind is that the current Android and iDevice mania is sucking up a lot of available software development time
<fusin> kyak:  right, but i fully support the idea behind :-D
<wolfspraul> my feeling is there are maybe a few hundred free software devs left worldwide working on non-Android/non-iphone mobile software
<wolfspraul> (I'm exaggerating, just to make my point)
<wolfspraul> so there are many cute little clients one _could_ write for the Ben
<wolfspraul> in sdl, in qt, in ncurses even
<wolfspraul> we have a bunch of interesting scripting languages
<kristianpaul> android hit something that for mobile i *think* is important, having a SDK is esential
<kristianpaul> UI unification.
<wolfspraul> but progress is very very slow because like I said for mobile devices with small screens, everybody and their grandmother are on Android or iPhone/iPad right now
<kristianpaul> etc..
<wolfspraul> oh I'm not worried at all about this, I'm just describing how I see things
<fusin> wolfspraul:  yep, I agree, and this brings up my second wish: where should a newbie start? there's no place with FAQ and or How To install and start develop for Ben.
<kristianpaul> sure, i can imagine you dont :-)
<wolfspraul> and why 'little' things like a dictionary app, an openstreetmap client, some music browsers and download clients for popular free music sites etc. are so slow coming together
<fusin> Maybe a dedicated Forum, and a Site with background info for the newbies?
<wolfspraul> the only thing I can do is to focus my extremely limited resources on the kernel, the build system, even u-boot
<wolfspraul> and endure the laughs about application failure compared to Android or iAnything
<fusin> kristianpaul: right: UI unification is important. Why have SDL/QT etc. Use one of them, but then everywhere.
<wolfspraul> eventually (tm) we have the right mix and it will take off...
<fusin> in my eyes (it's not meant as flame) the port of 'sc' to Ben was only usefull for the programmer. It's only a proof that it can be done. No one really will ever use sc on ben, isn't it?
<fusin> did even somebody use sc on linux??? ;)
<kristianpaul> i did once
<fusin> yeah, me too, on an old 386 in the beginning
<kristianpaul> but dint find dec to binaty convertion
<kristianpaul> binary*
<fusin> once I had X11 running, i never used it seriously :D
<kristianpaul> phew 20°C is getting "cold" here
<fusin> maybe sounds crazy, but I compare Ben with good old C64. Alas I miss Basic :D
<kyak> xMff: may i ask you to have a look at https://dev.openwrt.org/ticket/9442, there is a patch that enables cxx bindings and makes installation of ncurses headers more correct
<kyak_cim5> writing it from centerim5/libpurple running on Ben :)
<Fusin> never runs on Ben, I'm to heavy weight for that lill' case :D
<jirkab> fusin: I really use sc on Ben. And quite often (for trancking my expenses, for example)
<dvdk> morning qiots :p
<wolfspraul> morning :-)
<Fusin> qiots is copylefted :P
<wpwrak> wolfspraul: btw, do you know if getting slashdotted increased ben/ubb sales at tuxbrain ?
<wpwrak> if not, i'll ask victor. he seems to be in a communicative mood ;-)
<wolfspraul> wpwrak: for sure that will increase ben sales at tuxbrain
<wolfspraul> I had 10-15 I think, so from past data I'd say Tuxbrain maybe similar
<wpwrak> ah, getting closer to cracking the next 100 then :)
<wpwrak> the estimation time frame is about 1 week ? or is the sales tail longer ?
<wpwrak> s/time frame/interval/ # better :)
<Fusin> coffe time...
<Fusin> s/coffe/coffee
<wolfspraul> one week sounds about right, yes
<vladkorotnev> hello everyone
<kristianpaul> hi v
<kristianpaul> vladkorotnev*
<kristianpaul> Your nanonote finally arrive?
<vladkorotnev> kristianpaul: hi
<wolfspraul> vladkorotnev: hi
<vladkorotnev> I am going to reboot once more, see ya soon :P
<vladkorotnev> I'm here :P
<wpwrak> xiangfu: hmm, didn't you make an avrdude package once ? i found this one: http://downloads.qi-hardware.com/software/packages/NanoNote/Ben/latest/avrdude_5.8-1_xburst.ipk
<wpwrak> xiangfu: but that's an old version, without all the ben-specific changes
<xiangfu> wpwrak: the 'latest' packages is release with last release 2011-02-23.
<xiangfu> wpwrak: the avrdude with ben-specific will release in next packages.
<wpwrak> ah, i see. thanks ! lemme check it ...
<wolfspraul> vladkorotnev: did you get your NanoNote yet?
<vladkorotnev> wolfspraul: not yet :(
<wolfspraul> ok, no surprise, that shipping method is a bit slow - be patient
<wpwrak> wolfspraul: turtle express parcels ? ;-)
<vladkorotnev> wpwrak: It's on Russian customs. So the speed will always be the same :P
<wpwrak> vladkorotnev: oh, customs ... :(
<wpwrak> the scourge of the globalized consumer
<kristianpaul> ERROR:Map:258 - A problem was encountered attempting to get the license for this architecture. arghh!
<wpwrak> xiangfu: works ! :)
<qi-bot> [commit] Xiangfu Liu: avrdude: remove BROKEN http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-packages/bfff7c1
<xiangfu> wpwrak: just check if buildhost create the avrdude package. I found I forget remove the BROKEN.
<Fusin> oh
<vladkorotnev> hello everyone :P
<lunavorax_mini> I'm getting very non-confident about all of this smartphones and tablet sutffs
<lunavorax_mini> What bothers me is Android and closed Firmware stuff
<GNUtoo> lunavorax_mini, what do you mean by firmware? Android or the firmwares it contains like its wifi card firmware
<lunavorax_mini> Sorry yes I got all mixed up.
<lunavorax_mini> I mean that when I see a smartphone, I see a computer. And what I also see is that I can't load the OS I want in it but Android and often the outdated version the manufacturer built for it.
<GNUtoo> lunavorax_mini, are you aware of replicant?
<lunavorax_mini> GNUtoo, no
<GNUtoo> it's a 100% free android, altough:
<GNUtoo> *wifi and bluetooth depend on non-free firmware that are not redistributable
<GNUtoo> *the supported phones are unfortunately possibly spied by the modem
<lunavorax_mini> GNUtoo, http://replicant.us/ I suppose ?
<GNUtoo> so we'll move to other phones I think
<GNUtoo> yes
<lunavorax_mini> Interesting, thanks for the link GNUtoo
<lunavorax_mini> I made a talking about it at college
<GNUtoo> ok, abuot smartphones freedom issues?
<lunavorax_mini> I came to the conclusion that smartphones where "locked ready-to-throw-away computers" which is really sad
<GNUtoo> not all phones are locked
<GNUtoo> for instance:
<lunavorax_mini> Not all phones of course but a lot of them are.
<GNUtoo> *ADP1,nexus one, nexus S, palm pre, nokia N900 etc....
<GNUtoo> a lot are unlocked in fact, not the majority of them tough
<Fusin> just finished installing LMDE on my tiny eeePC 901
<Fusin> *sh*t* wrong channel :)
<lunavorax_mini> Hum ok GNUtoo
<Fusin> hrhr
<lunavorax_mini> Anyway, I don't have a smartphone... Not even a cellphone in fact :P
<GNUtoo> lunavorax_mini, that's better
<GNUtoo> lunavorax_mini, smartphones are spying devices
<GNUtoo> even if you have a 100% free distro on it
<lunavorax_mini> I do believe so
<lunavorax_mini> They sure are attractive but everytime I always got to the conclusion "I'll have to switch to buy a faster one day to to use the latest apps"
<lunavorax_mini> And then I dust off my old iTouch 2G and see all the "cool" apps in store...
<lunavorax_mini> And, oh well, just shut it off again for the next 6months :)
<Fusin> sell it before you earn no more money for it :P
<Fusin> buy an additional ben from the earned money :D
<lunavorax_mini> Fusin, at the beginning I bought it to develop on it... one day... maybe...
<Fusin> develop for apple hardware??
<Fusin> only usefull if hardware is not newer than AppleII :D
<lunavorax_mini> So far that was the best touchscreen device on the market imho. Maybe Android devices does good or better now.
<lunavorax_mini> Yeah I should buy an Apple II on day also to see why people say it's so awesome.
<GNUtoo> lunavorax_mini, better buying a non phone device
<Fusin> I buyed an Apple II gs lately, and I love it
<GNUtoo> but apple devices are spying too
<lunavorax_mini> GNUtoo, That's what I was going to precise
<lunavorax_mini> GNUtoo, also yeah
<lunavorax_mini> Fusin, gotta find a good emulator first to try it then I'll buy one maybe.
<lunavorax_mini> Fusin, for now I'm focused on receiving my first C64 from UK.
<GNUtoo> maybe the pandora would be great if you remove the 3d and make your own image and don't use pnds
<lunavorax_mini> pnds ?
<GNUtoo> pandora packagews
<GNUtoo> *packages
<GNUtoo> usually they come without source
<GNUtoo> or with a link to the source
<lunavorax_mini> Whatever, I try to avoid using vapor-hardware... whoops, what did I said ? ;)
<GNUtoo> it's real but hard to get
<GNUtoo> I saw real people with real pandoras
<GNUtoo> but it was just an examples
<lunavorax_mini> That's what I meant indeed.
<GNUtoo> there is the nanote too
<GNUtoo> but you have wpan and no wifi
<lunavorax_mini> I have my Ben for now it's cool.
<lunavorax_mini> I'll make some stuff this summer if I don't get lazy.
<GNUtoo> altough with people like werner, you have it pushed to its limits
<GNUtoo> *wpan
<GNUtoo> *vga adapter
<GNUtoo> etc....
<GNUtoo> it just lacks wifi
<lunavorax_mini> Yeah, I'll never be gratefull enough about what Werner have done so far.
<lunavorax_mini> It's ok, I don't miss wifi.
<lunavorax_mini> USB-Ethernet is ok, and mini-sd card slot for storage is too.
<lunavorax_mini> Bed time !
<lunavorax_mini> See ya :)