<kristianpaul>
how do you get in to the "qiot" word btw? :-)
<fusin>
slowly, much to much to do ;)
<fusin>
mainly use gmu
<kristianpaul>
gmu is nice
<fusin>
yep, but to be honest, I think buying Ben was an error
<fusin>
(except of suporting the idea of course)
<kristianpaul>
yeah, why?
<fusin>
for end users it is better to use android phones and tablets
<fusin>
or good old psion S5 :D
<kristianpaul>
fusin: it depends of end-user requirements
<fusin>
i really miss a road-map, like pE the roadmap @ ReactOS
<fusin>
well, what is the goal of ben?
<fusin>
device that powers and size, i can only see as PIM-Device, and little 'GameBoy' tool
<kristianpaul>
i like carry music on it
<fusin>
no one would realy use it to programm or to make 'serious' wordprocessing or?
<kristianpaul>
also some comics ;-)
<fusin>
well, indeed, gmu is my main appliance atm. And Sokoban :D
<kristianpaul>
ah, thats good, i dont see the bad poing of buing the nanonote if you get fun that way
<wolfspraul>
fusin: it's rare that a Ben buyer comes here and says it was an error!
<wolfspraul>
although I would estimate at least 30% of our buyers will feel like that after a week maybe...
<kristianpaul>
takes notes is good, i cant imagine run a wordprocessing software even if the sytem could handle all the processing
<wolfspraul>
not that I am proud of selling to those guys, the lower that number the better
<kristianpaul>
until they found JLime ;-))
<wpwrak>
wolfspraul: time to send the black ops ninjas ;-)
<wolfspraul>
if you compare with Android, or you think about 'end users', then of course I totally agree
<fusin>
perhaps i should try JLime, but I think the main goal is still full open-source, isn't it??
<wpwrak>
fusin: jlime is fully open source
<wolfspraul>
yes try jlime, maybe you can try booting from sd first
<fusin>
wolfspraul: why should i think other way? isn't ben not meant to be used by 'End-Users'?
<fusin>
if not, why making a nice case?
<fusin>
for development a naked board, with all connectors accesible is more accurate..
<wolfspraul>
it is [end-users], but today it needs to be an end user that cares a lot about free software
<kristianpaul>
i dont see comparison with android, remenbering this is a multipurpose OS
<kristianpaul>
remenber this little computer was a dictionary, now i can do more than that
<fusin>
kristianpaul:Â Â i not realy compare with Android, But from an End-Users view, i must. Coz what does interest an End user? the device has to do something well. For now, the only real usefull is Music-Player. For that money, there are cheaper players Outside. Ben will never be able to compete there.
<fusin>
I think there is a need to position Ben somewhere. Even if it is a 'niche'
<kristianpaul>
fusin: oh, sure i agree with turnkey solutions, something the ben is not now in the software side
<fusin>
i gues, making an good calculator, which run graphicaly could help
<fusin>
also a gui for DGClock which fits with the Gui from Gmenu.
<fusin>
stuff like that :D
<kristianpaul>
you really should try Jlime,
<kristianpaul>
from sd is nice, indeed
<wolfspraul>
fusin: I see you think in practial small steps (DGClock gui), that's good :-)
<wolfspraul>
practical
<fusin>
I will try someday, altough I didn't like it on my HP Jornada 568 :P
<kyak>
fusin: you just haven't found your use for Ben (yet)
<wolfspraul>
one thing to keep in mind is that the current Android and iDevice mania is sucking up a lot of available software development time
<fusin>
kyak:Â Â right, but i fully support the idea behind :-D
<wolfspraul>
my feeling is there are maybe a few hundred free software devs left worldwide working on non-Android/non-iphone mobile software
<wolfspraul>
(I'm exaggerating, just to make my point)
<wolfspraul>
so there are many cute little clients one _could_ write for the Ben
<wolfspraul>
in sdl, in qt, in ncurses even
<wolfspraul>
we have a bunch of interesting scripting languages
<kristianpaul>
android hit something that for mobile i *think* is important, having a SDK is esential
<kristianpaul>
UI unification.
<wolfspraul>
but progress is very very slow because like I said for mobile devices with small screens, everybody and their grandmother are on Android or iPhone/iPad right now
<kristianpaul>
etc..
<wolfspraul>
oh I'm not worried at all about this, I'm just describing how I see things
<fusin>
wolfspraul:Â Â yep, I agree, and this brings up my second wish: where should a newbie start? there's no place with FAQ and or How To install and start develop for Ben.
<kristianpaul>
sure, i can imagine you dont :-)
<wolfspraul>
and why 'little' things like a dictionary app, an openstreetmap client, some music browsers and download clients for popular free music sites etc. are so slow coming together
<fusin>
Maybe a dedicated Forum, and a Site with background info for the newbies?
<wolfspraul>
the only thing I can do is to focus my extremely limited resources on the kernel, the build system, even u-boot
<wolfspraul>
and endure the laughs about application failure compared to Android or iAnything
<fusin>
kristianpaul: right: UI unification is important. Why have SDL/QT etc. Use one of them, but then everywhere.
<wolfspraul>
eventually (tm) we have the right mix and it will take off...
<fusin>
in my eyes (it's not meant as flame) the port of 'sc' to Ben was only usefull for the programmer. It's only a proof that it can be done. No one really will ever use sc on ben, isn't it?
<fusin>
did even somebody use sc on linux??? ;)
<kristianpaul>
i did once
<fusin>
yeah, me too, on an old 386 in the beginning
<kristianpaul>
but dint find dec to binaty convertion
<kristianpaul>
binary*
<fusin>
once I had X11 running, i never used it seriously :D
<kristianpaul>
phew 20°C is getting "cold" here
<fusin>
maybe sounds crazy, but I compare Ben with good old C64. Alas I miss Basic :D
<kyak>
xMff: may i ask you to have a look at https://dev.openwrt.org/ticket/9442, there is a patch that enables cxx bindings and makes installation of ncurses headers more correct
<kyak_cim5>
writing it from centerim5/libpurple running on Ben :)
<Fusin>
never runs on Ben, I'm to heavy weight for that lill' case :D
<jirkab>
fusin: I really use sc on Ben. And quite often (for trancking my expenses, for example)
<dvdk>
morning qiots :p
<wolfspraul>
morning :-)
<Fusin>
qiots is copylefted :P
<wpwrak>
wolfspraul: btw, do you know if getting slashdotted increased ben/ubb sales at tuxbrain ?
<wpwrak>
if not, i'll ask victor. he seems to be in a communicative mood ;-)
<wolfspraul>
wpwrak: for sure that will increase ben sales at tuxbrain
<wolfspraul>
I had 10-15 I think, so from past data I'd say Tuxbrain maybe similar
<wpwrak>
ah, getting closer to cracking the next 100 then :)
<wpwrak>
the estimation time frame is about 1 week ? or is the sales tail longer ?
<wpwrak>
s/time frame/interval/ # better :)
<Fusin>
coffe time...
<Fusin>
s/coffe/coffee
<wolfspraul>
one week sounds about right, yes
<vladkorotnev>
hello everyone
<kristianpaul>
hi v
<kristianpaul>
vladkorotnev*
<kristianpaul>
Your nanonote finally arrive?
<vladkorotnev>
kristianpaul: hi
<wolfspraul>
vladkorotnev: hi
<vladkorotnev>
I am going to reboot once more, see ya soon :P
<xiangfu>
wpwrak: just check if buildhost create the avrdude package. I found I forget remove the BROKEN.
<Fusin>
oh
<vladkorotnev>
hello everyone :P
<lunavorax_mini>
I'm getting very non-confident about all of this smartphones and tablet sutffs
<lunavorax_mini>
What bothers me is Android and closed Firmware stuff
<GNUtoo>
lunavorax_mini, what do you mean by firmware? Android or the firmwares it contains like its wifi card firmware
<lunavorax_mini>
Sorry yes I got all mixed up.
<lunavorax_mini>
I mean that when I see a smartphone, I see a computer. And what I also see is that I can't load the OS I want in it but Android and often the outdated version the manufacturer built for it.
<GNUtoo>
lunavorax_mini, are you aware of replicant?
<lunavorax_mini>
GNUtoo, no
<GNUtoo>
it's a 100% free android, altough:
<GNUtoo>
*wifi and bluetooth depend on non-free firmware that are not redistributable
<GNUtoo>
*the supported phones are unfortunately possibly spied by the modem
<lunavorax_mini>
Interesting, thanks for the link GNUtoo
<lunavorax_mini>
I made a talking about it at college
<GNUtoo>
ok, abuot smartphones freedom issues?
<lunavorax_mini>
I came to the conclusion that smartphones where "locked ready-to-throw-away computers" which is really sad
<GNUtoo>
not all phones are locked
<GNUtoo>
for instance:
<lunavorax_mini>
Not all phones of course but a lot of them are.
<GNUtoo>
*ADP1,nexus one, nexus S, palm pre, nokia N900 etc....
<GNUtoo>
a lot are unlocked in fact, not the majority of them tough
<Fusin>
just finished installing LMDE on my tiny eeePC 901
<Fusin>
*sh*t* wrong channel :)
<lunavorax_mini>
Hum ok GNUtoo
<Fusin>
hrhr
<lunavorax_mini>
Anyway, I don't have a smartphone... Not even a cellphone in fact :P
<GNUtoo>
lunavorax_mini, that's better
<GNUtoo>
lunavorax_mini, smartphones are spying devices
<GNUtoo>
even if you have a 100% free distro on it
<lunavorax_mini>
I do believe so
<lunavorax_mini>
They sure are attractive but everytime I always got to the conclusion "I'll have to switch to buy a faster one day to to use the latest apps"
<lunavorax_mini>
And then I dust off my old iTouch 2G and see all the "cool" apps in store...
<lunavorax_mini>
And, oh well, just shut it off again for the next 6months :)
<Fusin>
sell it before you earn no more money for it :P
<Fusin>
buy an additional ben from the earned money :D
<lunavorax_mini>
Fusin, at the beginning I bought it to develop on it... one day... maybe...
<Fusin>
develop for apple hardware??
<Fusin>
only usefull if hardware is not newer than AppleII :D
<lunavorax_mini>
So far that was the best touchscreen device on the market imho. Maybe Android devices does good or better now.
<lunavorax_mini>
Yeah I should buy an Apple II on day also to see why people say it's so awesome.
<GNUtoo>
lunavorax_mini, better buying a non phone device
<Fusin>
I buyed an Apple II gs lately, and I love it
<GNUtoo>
but apple devices are spying too
<lunavorax_mini>
GNUtoo, That's what I was going to precise
<lunavorax_mini>
GNUtoo, also yeah
<lunavorax_mini>
Fusin, gotta find a good emulator first to try it then I'll buy one maybe.
<lunavorax_mini>
Fusin, for now I'm focused on receiving my first C64 from UK.
<GNUtoo>
maybe the pandora would be great if you remove the 3d and make your own image and don't use pnds
<lunavorax_mini>
pnds ?
<GNUtoo>
pandora packagews
<GNUtoo>
*packages
<GNUtoo>
usually they come without source
<GNUtoo>
or with a link to the source
<lunavorax_mini>
Whatever, I try to avoid using vapor-hardware... whoops, what did I said ? ;)
<GNUtoo>
it's real but hard to get
<GNUtoo>
I saw real people with real pandoras
<GNUtoo>
but it was just an examples
<lunavorax_mini>
That's what I meant indeed.
<GNUtoo>
there is the nanote too
<GNUtoo>
but you have wpan and no wifi
<lunavorax_mini>
I have my Ben for now it's cool.
<lunavorax_mini>
I'll make some stuff this summer if I don't get lazy.
<GNUtoo>
altough with people like werner, you have it pushed to its limits
<GNUtoo>
*wpan
<GNUtoo>
*vga adapter
<GNUtoo>
etc....
<GNUtoo>
it just lacks wifi
<lunavorax_mini>
Yeah, I'll never be gratefull enough about what Werner have done so far.
<lunavorax_mini>
It's ok, I don't miss wifi.
<lunavorax_mini>
USB-Ethernet is ok, and mini-sd card slot for storage is too.