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<whitequark>
larsc: out of curiosity
<whitequark>
why would you have two otherwise identical boards?
<whitequark>
I mean, they must've either differently rated ICs or different power supplies, or whatever
<wpwrak>
wolfspraul: you chose a good moment to be away from bejing. they seem to have especially nasty smog these days: http://www.heise.de/tp/blogs/8/153532
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<wolfspraul>
I help filtering it with my lungs, no worries
<wolfspraul>
yes we proudly set a new world record, I believe
<wolfspraul>
far above the highest scale, where no achievement of the people ever reached to before
<wpwrak>
heh :) isn't it nice that there so many opportunities to excel ?
<wolfspraul>
the official propaganda a few days ago just said the air was improving for the 14th consecutive year in Beijing!
<wolfspraul>
ha ha
<wolfspraul>
yes
<wpwrak>
(14th consecutive year) "we have better ways to interpret the measurements now" :)
<wolfspraul>
at least those assholes are inhalating the same shit as everybody else, that's comforting
<wolfspraul>
:-)
<wolfspraul>
although wait, it's possible that they sit in specially cleaned rooms, with hospital air cleaning equipment...
<wpwrak>
well, all the west keeps asking for more democracy in china. so that sort of debate is what they want, right ? :)
<wpwrak>
if they live in clean rooms, that'll do wonders to their immune system :)
<wolfspraul>
sales of very expensive air cleaning devices are booming
<wolfspraul>
and they need heavy maintenance etc.
<wolfspraul>
but that stuff does work, if you throw enough resources at it
<wolfspraul>
"china reaching cleanliness levels typically only found in special clean rooms in the west"
<wpwrak>
sounds like a good concept: clean the air at the destination, not at the source :)
<wolfspraul>
they chose this path, not me
<wolfspraul>
but I help with my lungs right now, let's see for how long :-)
<wolfspraul>
so they drive a Porsche, but inhalate air as if they smoke all the time
<wpwrak>
no need to buy expensive cigarettes then :)
<wolfspraul>
"with every breath you take, you can help to clean your homeland"
<wolfspraul>
wonderful
<wolfspraul>
they should let me try to write some headlines too :-)
<wpwrak>
you should make some posters :)
<wolfspraul>
let's make it patriotic and bullshit, that should work
<wolfspraul>
those letters "healthy" as large as possible are laughing at me, when I look outside it looks as if there is a fire all around :-)
<wolfspraul>
so yeah, settling back in, thanks for your thoughts :-)
<wpwrak>
ah, you're back in beijing, not in .de ?
<wolfspraul>
sure
<wolfspraul>
just said "help cleaning"
<wolfspraul>
you can only do that at the frontline, one breadth at a time
<wpwrak>
i thought that was a more general statement. like every day you're contributing.
<wolfspraul>
actually on a serious note this pollution makes people speechless
<wolfspraul>
even chinese start to reflect a little
<wpwrak>
ah well, here's to selfless heroism then :)
<wolfspraul>
people drive slowly, can't believe it, etc.
<wolfspraul>
well - a little slower
<wolfspraul>
a tiny little bit more gently
<wolfspraul>
so instead of "super aggressive" as all the time, now it's just "aggressive"
<wpwrak>
well, it'll take a while for the culture to adapt
<wolfspraul>
I can sense a tiny bit of reflection about whether something might, just might, be wrong
<wolfspraul>
sure
<wolfspraul>
levels above 800 and above 1000 on some measurements are really unbelievable
<wolfspraul>
I think if you are in a room where someone else smokes, it will be about 300-400 or so
<wpwrak>
while people are still overwhelmed by being wealthy, they may not be so quick to pick up the more subtle things that come with it. like caring about your health.
<wolfspraul>
we have that on good days now
<wpwrak>
lovely
<wolfspraul>
the us and who scale ends at 500, china extended it to 700 but that's also not enough. they should extend it to 2000 or so right away...
<wpwrak>
at some point, it should make the cleaning easier, too. just move the air a little and the dirt will condense out of it :)
<wolfspraul>
in a normal place you are <50 all the time
<wolfspraul>
if this continues, there will be astronomical numbers of lung diseases etc. in a few years
<wolfspraul>
(in china)
<wolfspraul>
since in a few years, you inhalate as many particles as in your whole life elsewhere
<wolfspraul>
anyway
<wpwrak>
time to invest in medical equipment. portable breathing aids and such
<wolfspraul>
oh definitely
<wpwrak>
or maybe set up a business with canned air from tibet :)
<wolfspraul>
ah yes, I saw that headline too
<wolfspraul>
they are really desperate
<wolfspraul>
"air quality near perfect in Tibet"
<wolfspraul>
ha ha
<wolfspraul>
yeah
<wolfspraul>
:-)
<wolfspraul>
like I said, I can sense a tiny bit of reflection at least
<wolfspraul>
it's so obvious that nobody can deny this, even though chinese (especialy higher-level) are extremely good at flat-out lying directly into your face
<wolfspraul>
but it becomes more difficult now, so my smile goes up regardless :-)
<wpwrak>
;-))
<wolfspraul>
let's have another cigarette! :-)
<wolfspraul>
ah there you go, "tibet near perfect"
<wolfspraul>
right
<wolfspraul>
:-)
<wolfspraul>
Japan too
<wolfspraul>
Germany
<wolfspraul>
US
<wolfspraul>
Argentina
<wolfspraul>
etc. etc.
<wpwrak>
you've made it when smoking a cigarette actually reduces the contamination :)
<wolfspraul>
yes there is a *FILTER* at the end, no?
<wolfspraul>
maybe if you pull the air through there, you can help cleaning?
<wpwrak>
or at least inhale better air
<wolfspraul>
yes! really good idea
<wolfspraul>
just put the unlit cigarette into your mouth, ha ha
<wpwrak>
smoking as a public services sounds tempting, though
<wolfspraul>
then spread a rumor that that helps
<wolfspraul>
maybe a few million will follow you the next day
<wolfspraul>
xiangfu: how do you like that?
<wpwrak>
ah yes, that ought to work
<wolfspraul>
Werner and I have an idea
<wolfspraul>
how every chinese can help clean the motherland
<wolfspraul>
you buy a pack of cigarettes, and put one into your mouth but *DO NOT* light it
<wolfspraul>
just breathe the air through the filter
<wolfspraul>
and after 30 minutes or 1 hr, switch to the next cigarette with clean filter
<wpwrak>
and put the old one into the hazardous waste bin
<wolfspraul>
brilliant idea, also a fashion statement
<wpwrak>
... from where it will the be picked up by the garbage company and burnt in a backyard a couple of blocks away :)
<wolfspraul>
or mixed in with animal food or worse
<wpwrak>
yeah, i like it. you should sell it to some cigarette company
<wpwrak>
yummy
<wolfspraul>
hey, I liked this in the xinhua article...
<wolfspraul>
so first they say it's improving for 14 consecutive years
<wolfspraul>
ok
<wolfspraul>
"improving"
<wolfspraul>
all relative...
<wolfspraul>
"dropped by 4 percent"
<wolfspraul>
notice the "per cent"
<wolfspraul>
but then it gets interesting
<wolfspraul>
"The biggest challenge is the increase of pollutants"
<wolfspraul>
huh?
<wolfspraul>
"We can only improve air quality by making sure that pollution reduction outpaces increases in pollutants"
<wolfspraul>
huh huh?
<wolfspraul>
so what is actually "improving" now?
<wpwrak>
ah yes, must be some translation mistake :)
<wolfspraul>
increase? decrease?
<wolfspraul>
4 percent of what?
<wpwrak>
i like that one "Fang said, adding that 122 heavily polluting companies were closed as well."
<wpwrak>
seems that they're trying :)
<wolfspraul>
maybe they measre "increase" and "reduction" separately
<wolfspraul>
werner that opens a whole new field of math right there!
<wolfspraul>
you can always declare a "reduction" if you single out the "increase" first! :-)
<wolfspraul>
so the reduction is real!
<wpwrak>
maybe he meant the number of pollutants
<wolfspraul>
(after increase)
<wolfspraul>
nah nah
<wolfspraul>
reduction and increase are treated separately, ha ha
<wolfspraul>
how much reduction do you want?
<wolfspraul>
10%?
<wolfspraul>
no problem
<wpwrak>
so those lovely dioxides are down while new stuff is getting added to the mix
<wolfspraul>
if the increase is 10%, we first increase by 20%, then you can have your reduction...
<wpwrak>
sounds fair to me
<wolfspraul>
everybody is happy, bonuses are paid...
<wolfspraul>
that's how they managed to become the world's most polluted city now
<wolfspraul>
they should check their math
<wolfspraul>
yes correct, they are trying
<wolfspraul>
but it takes a lot of time and a lot of thinking to change peoples behavior
<wolfspraul>
what everybody does each day, themselves, rather than pointing elsewhere...
<wolfspraul>
I expect absolutely horrible air quality for all of january and in fact the whole winter
<wolfspraul>
in the summer it might go back down to hazardous/very unhealthy etc. as before/as normal
<wpwrak>
how's public transportation in beijing ? do you need that car or would there be a nice yet less prestigious underground as well ?
<wolfspraul>
pretty good [public transport]
<wolfspraul>
I don't think you can blame cars alone
<wolfspraul>
everything is booming, and the management is just out of control
<wpwrak>
oh, by the way, the charming wooden subway cars you enjoyed so much in buenos aires are no more. they're being replaced with modern ones from china these days.
<wolfspraul>
from my very limited knowledge I think there is a ton of new coal-fired power plants, for example
<wolfspraul>
plus lots of other bad behavior by companies, private and state, individuals, on construction sites, badly maintained cars, old trucks, etc. etc.
<wolfspraul>
all together creating the result you read about
<wolfspraul>
at least nobody can deny it anymore, finally
<wpwrak>
the old critters had been in service for almost 100 years. in fact, that there hasn't been any major carnage is just a testament to good active safety (and subways generally being one of the safest means of transportation)
<wolfspraul>
I really can have the best laugh now
<wolfspraul>
they will improve...
<wolfspraul>
oh too bad, yes I did like those old cars
<wolfspraul>
for purely nostalgic reasons though, I understand they have to go
<wolfspraul>
hopefully someone still uses them in some make, make a good bar or so with them...
<wolfspraul>
or cafe
<wolfspraul>
s/in some make/in some way/
<wpwrak>
they plan to put them at parks, as public libraries
<wpwrak>
and keep (and modify, since the voltage changes now) one train for tourism
<wolfspraul>
just curious - voltage changes from what to what?
<wpwrak>
and yes, some people seem to be interested in buying some. so maybe we'll get some new bars as well :)
<wpwrak>
i think 1100 V to 1500 V
<wpwrak>
yes
<wpwrak>
not sure if this means that the current will go down or if the new trains consume more in general. for instance for air conditioning.
<wpwrak>
so they're shutting down the line for about two months to do all the replacement work and testing
<wpwrak>
(it's just one line - the rest of the network already has more modern trains)
<wpwrak>
the ownership of the metro network changed from the national government to the city with the beginning of 2013. finally. they've been fighting over this for a long time.
<wpwrak>
so now it's cleanup time. and the heavy subsidies will go, too. a year ago, a metro ticket (for unlimited travel in the underground network) cost about 20-25 US-cents. then, when talks about the transfer started, they doubled it. now it'll go up some 60% again. even with that, it's cheap.
<wolfspraul>
in bejing, any city-wide subway ride costs a flat 2 rmb (=ca. 35 US cents)
<wolfspraul>
buses are even less, normally 1 RMB (17 cents) and with a electronic card only 0.4 rmb, that is... a few cents
<wolfspraul>
zero essentially
<wolfspraul>
sounds nice superficially but as usual there's a mean back-end, because these prices are to keep the poor being "able" to commute from very far places where they can afford the rent into the city... for hours each day...
<wolfspraul>
at least they *can*, isn't that nice :-)
<wpwrak>
yeah, pretty much the same concept here
<wolfspraul>
2-3 hours bus into the city (unpaid), then work for little money, then another 2-3h back into their dirtholes
<wpwrak>
at least i assume your infrastructure is in better shape
<wolfspraul>
if you don't count the air as 'infrastructure', then yes :-)
<wpwrak>
here, the subway isn't so bad but the trains are a nightmare. or so i've heard. never tried one.
<wpwrak>
heh :)
<wolfspraul>
and not the water either
<wolfspraul>
but water from tibet is clean, I'm sure...
<wpwrak>
(trains) and sure enough, we had a major accident least year. 50 dead, hundreds wounded. that was one of the main commuter trains. ran into the bumpers in the station at a slightly elevated speed, some 20-30 km/h.
<wpwrak>
now you just need to get a permit to visit tibet, so clean out your lungs :)
<wolfspraul>
nah
<wolfspraul>
you know I'm attracted to places where *nothing* works :-)
<wolfspraul>
I like it in Beijing
<wolfspraul>
the home of (a lot of) creativity :-)
<wpwrak>
an engineer's paradise. endless opportunities to fix things :)
<roh>
heh.. maybe its a good thing berlin falls apart all the time then, too
<roh>
interresting.. did never look at it that way.. just the 'cheap enough to finance your projects easier' way till now