<wpwrak>
price point would be higher, maybe around USD/EUR 50 at a large enough volume. wikireader is a lot simpler. no usb, no rf, etc.
<kyak>
there was a long discussion started by e2580 user, which you can follow in logs
<kyak>
so i'm just wondering about two things: 1) are you reinventing the wheel? 2) do you plan this for real? i mean, it seems like a lot of human and money resources are needed
<wpwrak>
ah yes, i remember it. did anything come out of it ? they missed their indiegogo goal by a wide margin.
<kyak>
well, they have a web site and semi-professional video introduction :)
<kyak>
that's all i know
<wpwrak>
it would be rather different: with a display and a keyboard. more like an agenda than such a "key" dongle
<wpwrak>
and it does sound like a fun hobby project, doesn't it ? :) that wouldn't directly produce a marketable product, but something that could be built upon
Luke-Jr has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
<kyak>
they also claim it's open hardware and you can program it with your software
xiangfu has joined #qi-hardware
<kyak>
if you don't plan to produce a ready to use (and ready to sell) product, then yes, it's a fun project
<kyak>
but people might think you are aiming for something else
<kyak>
see, they already say that they would buy one :)
<wpwrak>
these are good indicators :)
rz2k has quit []
<wpwrak>
in any case, for serious production funding you either need to have a) a lot of money, b) an investor, c) a sexy prototype you can show off to crowed funding.
<wpwrak>
i don't have a). the history of qi-hw is marked by reliably sucking at finding b). that leaves c), to which a hobby project would lead.
<kyak>
ok, this sounds more like a plan
<jow_laptop>
/win 3
<jow_laptop>
sorry :)
FDCX_ has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
Luke-Jr has joined #qi-hardware
xiangfu_ has joined #qi-hardware
xiangfu has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds]
wej has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
viric has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
viric has joined #qi-hardware
<qi-bot>
[commit] Paul Cercueil: Change API of InputManager: we don't care about key release events (packages) http://qi-hw.com/p/gmenu2x/dba6c32
Luke-Jr has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
Luke-Jr has joined #qi-hardware
woakas has joined #qi-hardware
pcercuei has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
pcercuei has joined #qi-hardware
wej has joined #qi-hardware
<ysionneau>
wpwrak: I would buy a password safe, very good idea :)
<ysionneau>
wouldn't it be cool to for instance unlock the safe by typing the master passkey on the device keyboard, then chose the ID of the key we want to use, then plug the safe to the computer by USB
<ysionneau>
and then the password safe would act like a USB HID device and emit the key strokes to enter the password
<ysionneau>
so that it would work virtually everywhere (in the browser, terminal, tty, email client etc)
<ysionneau>
with no plugin or anything
<ysionneau>
like Yubikeys do
<ysionneau>
so that you can use strong passwords and *not* have to type them :)
<ysionneau>
and not have to display them on the password safe device either
<ysionneau>
I don't know if hardened USB cable exist, so that the cable does not emit electromagnetic signals far away, to prevent others from sniffing the USB transactions and decode the HID and then get your precious password
wej has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
<whitequark>
ysionneau: I think regular shielded cables would work
<whitequark>
but this is a rather sophisticated attack; you have much simpler ones (ie, phishing) to worry about
<ysionneau>
indeed
<ysionneau>
and social engineering :)
<whitequark>
yeah
<ysionneau>
especially on older people
Luke-Jr has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]
Luke-Jr has joined #qi-hardware
<hellekin>
yes, older people are proven to be more susceptible to social engineering.
<hellekin>
they can't read bad intentions so well it seems
<whitequark>
this always striked me as strange
<whitequark>
*struck, grr
<whitequark>
won't they have lots of life experience, compared to green and young people?
* whitequark
shrugs
<hellekin>
I guess it makes sense considering you've make it so far, so your brains got sloppy on trust issues
<hellekin>
I should say: made it so far despite all the bad guys
<hellekin>
dammit whitequark you made my English worse :]
<whitequark>
:/
<hellekin>
j/k don't worry. I got sloppy with more Spanish.
<ysionneau>
maybe with the age there is some drop in intellectual capacities
<ysionneau>
for some people
<ysionneau>
this + illnesses
paul_boddie has joined #qi-hardware
<paul_boddie>
I can think of a few reasons why older people find various things unintuitive.
xiangfu_ has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
<paul_boddie>
First of all, as you get older you don't have the patience for all the messing around that technology makes people do.
<paul_boddie>
People expect stuff to behave logically and not require "tricks" to behave normally, whereas children will regard it as part of the fun.
<paul_boddie>
Another thing that confuses people is that their life experiences aren't necessarily portable to the new paradigm.
<paul_boddie>
I think technology lets a lot of people down for the sake of appealing to short attention span hipsters who just want cool demos to show off with.
<wpwrak>
ysionneau: (like USB HID) that's exactly how i imagine it :)
<wpwrak>
paul_boddie: like, obsoleting phones - along with their UIs - within two years :)
<paul_boddie>
It's funny to see 80% of the people on the train staring and poking at their phones and tablets. The Matrix realised at last! ;-)
<larsc>
welcome to the infromation age
<wpwrak>
infromation: from Fr. "fromage", cheese. 1. a process that produces in subjects brains with holes, like cheese
<wpwrak>
ysionneau: one could even take it one step further: generate a password/passphrase on the password safe, and never show it to the user
wej has joined #qi-hardware
<wpwrak>
so the next time you travel to the UK, take your laptop with an encrypted disk with you, plus your PW safe and an empty uSD. put your PW safe data on a PC that will allow access only after you've arrived, e.g., 12 hours after entering the UK. in the UK, they could jail you for not revealing a password. and they can hold you for up to 9 hours just because they can.
<wpwrak>
since you don't know the password, you may be able to worm yourself out of all this. of course, they could still make you have an "accident" or decide that they don't really care about their own laws.
<larsc>
well to the outside world there is no difference between not knowing the password and knowing the password and saying you don't know it, so they jail you anyway
<larsc>
I think the law is that they can jail you if you don't tell them the password
<wpwrak>
it would depend on whether the judge believes you or not. maybe include afghanistan on your route, so you can explain you did it because you fear getting kidnapped there
<larsc>
ha, here's a funny trick hide a encrypted harddrive in somebodies luggage ;)
<larsc>
somebody's
<wpwrak>
yeah, along with the drugs and the bomb :)
<wpwrak>
well, when they caught a young woman with a bomb in her luggage some years ago, they cleared her fairly quickly, realizing it was put there without her knowledge by her paramour.
<wpwrak>
if it had been crypto, she probably wouldn't have gotten off so easily
<larsc>
and hiding bombs is illegal, hiding harddrives not so much (yet)
<wpwrak>
"Did you really think that we want those laws to be observed ?" -- Dr. Ferris, "Atlas Shrugged", Ayn Rand
<wpwrak>
s/Did/Do/
<qi-bot>
wpwrak meant: ""Do you really think that we want those laws to be observed ?" -- Dr. Ferris, "Atlas Shrugged", Ayn Rand"
<wpwrak>
s/to be //
<qi-bot>
wpwrak meant: ""Do you really think that we want those laws observed ?" -- Dr. Ferris, "Atlas Shrugged", Ayn Rand"
<wpwrak>
grr. why does google show the wrong quote first ?
<whitequark>
paul_boddie: but I wasn't really talking about technology, just fraud
<whitequark>
fraud is as old as the humanity, and it doesn't even change very much...
<wpwrak>
new circumstances have a tendency of complicating things. people generally try to accept new things (including technology), so if the fraud exploits that, they're vulnerable.
<wpwrak>
with computers, you also have the added possibility of targeting a lot of people, so even something that has an extremely low probability of success (and thus never was an issue before) all of a sudden can become profitable
<wpwrak>
e.g., the nigeria scams
<paul_boddie>
Yes, a lot of the context is different or counterintuitive. For example, is some e-mail from Amazon genuine or not? How can someone tell?
<larsc>
well how can you tell a letter from Amazon is genuine or not?
<whitequark>
right...
<wpwrak>
if it's in response to something you recently did, chances are it is
<paul_boddie>
Well, indeed, but the things that make a letter seem credible do not all translate to the electronic realm.
<wpwrak>
if it comes out of the blue, burn it :)
<paul_boddie>
But again, there are some expectations about how things used to be that are no longer relevant, either.
<paul_boddie>
So, people might think that no-one would dare to pretend to be a bank when sending a paper letter, perhaps because the consequences would be severe for anyone caught doing so.
<wpwrak>
indeed, there's that. and if the letter came from abroad, where these laws would not be enforceable, you could tell by just looking at the stamps.
<paul_boddie>
Meanwhile, the consequences are limited indeed for e-mail. For someone doing a postal scam, you could either pay them a visit or find out who registered the post office box.
<paul_boddie>
I could easily imagine people trying to apply the same mental model for paper mail to e-mail and wondering why it isn't comparable.
<wpwrak>
indeed. and properties like how easy it is to falsify the "From:" field are not intuitively clear to non-experts
paul_boddie has left #qi-hardware ["Konversation terminated!"]
FDCX_ has joined #qi-hardware
<wpwrak>
whoa. HEAVY storm. the whole building is shaking.