<wpwrak>
phew. i don't really want to create a temple of battery worship ...
<wpwrak>
i want the damn thing to work. it sits there all year long, doing very very little. there's hardly an excuse for it to survive only a couple of years.
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<DocScrutinizer05>
there is: constantly keeping batteries charged at maximum
<DocScrutinizer05>
car batteries can cope with that, at the expense of you feeding them with a tiny bit of water twice a year
<DocScrutinizer05>
all other batteries don't really like that treatment too much
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<wpwrak>
yeah, dunno what lead-gel is like
<wpwrak>
but ... do they self-discharge so rapidly that the charging logic has to keep them topped up all the time ? e.g., wouldn't the life improve if it let it discharge to, say, 80% before recharging ?
<DocScrutinizer05>
hmm, dunno. Probably the circuit works better when used twoway
<wpwrak>
twoway ?
<DocScrutinizer05>
very simple circuit with transformer and two transistors works both for powering by AC and charging battery, as well as powering it by battery and providing AC
<DocScrutinizer05>
other designs have a AC->DC "PSU" with battery buffering the output and a DC->AC converter running all the time
<DocScrutinizer05>
medium quality UPS guarantee a brownout max duration of <20ms
<DocScrutinizer05>
better ones don't allow any dropouts at all
<wpwrak>
but in either case, you shouldn't have to involve the battery all the time. i mean, it has no "startup time". so you, if you're using fast electronics and not, say, electromechanical relays, can decouple it from the regular power flow.
<wpwrak>
in a way, the electronics, the difference should de facto disappear. also in the diagrams on wikipedia :)
<wpwrak>
you can just use caps for the very short-term stuff (let's say, 10 ms)
<DocScrutinizer05>
wpwrak: to guarantee a "in-sync" power from the UPS, you usually need to run the DC->AC converter all the time, synchronized to the AC-mains line
<DocScrutinizer05>
only way to ensure max 10ms of dropout time
<wpwrak>
so, ~1 mF uF @ 250 Vdc ?
<DocScrutinizer05>
unless you use really massive electronics, with MCU to control everything
<wpwrak>
s/uF //
<qi-bot>
wpwrak meant: "so, ~1 mF @ 250 Vdc ?"
<wpwrak>
wow. an MCU ! now we're talking high-tech ;-)
<DocScrutinizer05>
for PSU we actually do ;-)
<DocScrutinizer05>
UPS
<wpwrak>
it already has one to talk to USB and such, so ...
<DocScrutinizer05>
so this one needs to AD-convert mains and monitor it
<DocScrutinizer05>
and ramp up any switched-mode PSU 12->230V in <10ms exactly in phase
<wpwrak>
it supposedly does that (reports mains voltage)
<DocScrutinizer05>
nah, I'm talking about watching the wave form
<wpwrak>
well, if you go AC-DC-AC all the time, you could just monitor the charge status of your caps, no ? if they drop too low, you bring the battery online
<DocScrutinizer05>
and basically predict it
<DocScrutinizer05>
that#s a feasible alternative
<DocScrutinizer05>
I guess then you just need to take care about the temperature, since that's probably another killer factor for your batteries
<wpwrak>
hmm, need a universal remote control with a "climate" button then :)
<DocScrutinizer05>
but honestly I think batteries dead after 3 years is mainly due to crappy cheap circuit in UPS
<wpwrak>
yeah, i suspect that
<DocScrutinizer05>
charger barely stabilized at all @ 14.4V
<wpwrak>
stabilized ? i'm sure some chinese fab knows how to do it with mains plus air gap alone ;-)
<DocScrutinizer05>
hehe
<DocScrutinizer05>
n8
<wpwrak>
ah, sunrise. time for the vampires to get some coffin time :)
<wpwrak>
the overall contrast seems a bit low. maybe use an image with stronger colors ?
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<kyak>
"anelok" :) it is pretty funny how you came up with this name
<kyak>
but it's good
<kyak>
wpwrak: you might want to register the according irc channel
<wpwrak>
good idea. done. thanks !
<wpwrak>
for now, i'll keep things here, though.
<kyak>
sure, don't scatter the information
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<rjeffries>
Has anyone been in contact with wolfspraul? Is he OK? Still in China?
<wpwrak>
i suppose he still exists. but he's been very very silent lately.
<wpwrak>
if something goes wrong with the servers and you mention it here when he's around, they often come back soon thereafter. this may be coincidence or maybe silent wolfgang is watching the channel and fixing them.
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<rjeffries>
well, he is missed.
<rjeffries>
I sometimes wonder what happened to his stash of over 1,000 remaining Ben Nanonotes. By now they may be landfill.
<lekernel>
wpwrak, that being said, sharism.cc has been down for months
<rjeffries>
lekernel did they make BSD run on your milkymist board?
<rjeffries>
one assumes sharism as a business is on the dead pool. that's too bad, but it happens
<lekernel>
not yet, but Yann's last commit is 6 days old. so there's still some progress...
<rjeffries>
yes, I've been keeping an eye on your latest project. Looking good! I have not looked carefully at the specs however.
<rjeffries>
lekernel (lazy question, have not RTFM) does Mixxeo (great name!) have SPI bus and or I2C available as a low cost way to OPTIONALLY loosely couple something else that's MCU based?
<lekernel>
almost all unused FPGA IOs are routed out
<lekernel>
feel free to hook up your MCU to the IO connectors and write some code ...
<lekernel>
note that you could also shove your MCU into the FPGA ;)
<lekernel>
unless you need ADCs etc.
<rjeffries>
lekernel thanks for the info. am I correct to interpret it as saying in a polite way, "Mixxeo does not currently include SPI or I2c protocol support. But someone could do so."
<rjeffries>
LOL I thought you might suggest I shove my MCU somehere teh sun doesn't shine. <g>
<rjeffries>
I think your USB support is more robust than before, correct?
<lekernel>
there's no USB on Mixxeo - I'm sick of fixing bugs stemming from ridiculous protocol overengineering and for things that most people take for granted
<rjeffries>
Totally different line of questioning, then I STFU: roughly how many LUTs does Mixxeo use?
<rjeffries>
How many UARTS of what speed did you design in, any free?
<lekernel>
the HDMI ports are 3Gbps UARTs ;)
<rjeffries>
OK, but used (designe dto be used) for video out
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<lekernel>
well the IOs are routed with proper differential impedance for LVDS, so you can use them at high speeds. don't take gateware/software support for granted, though.
<lekernel>
the only supported feature on Mixxeo is video mixing. for everything else, you need to edit code, run ISE, etc.
<rjeffries>
Thanks.
<rjeffries>
Ethernet still in teh mix?
<lekernel>
on the development prototypes only and totally unsupported
<lekernel>
might reintroduce it at some point, but that's not clear atm
<rjeffries>
You are hard core. LOL It's OK, but you are REALLY minimalist.
<rjeffries>
That implies Ethernet caused issues on Milkymist (to my mind)
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<rjeffries>
I apologize. this is the WRONG IRC. I'll check in oon your irc at some future point
<lekernel>
not that many especially compared to monstruosities like USB, but enough to irritate me. and you need a TCP/IP stack, a way to configure IP addresses, etc. which take time.
<rjeffries>
understood.
<rjeffries>
one way to go to avoid all would be you define a nice, clean API (you prolly already have). then use a REALLY simply protocol over serial between an external board and Mixxeo.
<rjeffries>
I am well aware that you want to keep your project totally open, and it is. an API plus a protocol would allow your users to fairly easily add some VERY slick user interface stuff.
<lekernel>
there will be the user interface built-in
<rjeffries>
I won't mention specific products, but there are several off the shelf boards that could interface to Mixxeo over serial, then provide interfaces so an iPad ot Android tablet or a linux notebook or whatever can be used woth Mixxeo
<lekernel>
it's a mess to use
<rjeffries>
your in-built UI will be great, I am sure. but Users will want this and that and 19 other things.MIDI DMX WiFi Erhernet the mind boggles. video capture hardware (cheap but good...)
<rjeffries>
the beauty of ALLOWING external interface is a million peopel can code for that platform that will never learn to sling FPGA gates
<lekernel>
and the way to make a slick UI is to hire a great designer, not hope that one will fall from the sky
<lekernel>
most open source projects have ONE developer
<rjeffries>
but this is all moot. Theoretical. Nice chatting, I do like your work, a LOT
<lekernel>
external interfaces are allowed, but simply not supported.
<lekernel>
use a screwdriver, soldering iron, JTAG cable, ISE, migen, etc. all on your own
<rjeffries>
yes, but I am talking about a LOOSELY couple appraoch, all you have is YOUR UI, plus an API and serial port to outside devive. Be well
<lekernel>
and the source is yours to mess with
<rjeffries>
we differ about where the demarc is, that's all. smile.
<rjeffries>
yup
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<wpwrak>
i suppose you could simply have an extension header for adding things. implementing some simple interface (SPI or such) shouldn't need an expert with a lifetime of verilog experience.
<wpwrak>
then an external CPU could use that for communication. and do on its own side whatever it wants.
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<unclouded>
wpwrak: +1 for it being nice to read about the design process on the list
<unclouded>
and I definitely want one of these at ~US$100 once they're ready
<unclouded>
my favourite features would be the jog wheel and the pretending to be a USB keyboard
<unclouded>
and the fact that it's open of course!
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<wpwrak>
kewl :)
<wpwrak>
for the jog wheel, i have two options: a 22 mm wheel with rotation and a center button. or a 32 mm wheel with rotation, center button, and four "cursor keys"
<wpwrak>
the latter should also exist in 22 mm, since my samsung phone has that. but it may be difficult to use all the features at such a small size. (the samsung software doesn't use it in a very nice way, so it's hard to tell how it would be with good software)
<wpwrak>
alas, 32 mm would make the device considerably larger. and the display may look "wrong" being much smaller then. but we'll see.
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<unclouded>
that's a good point. the success of the eventual crowdfunding campaign might be affected by the aesthetics of the prototype. golden ratio and all that
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<wpwrak>
let's find out what clones there are in china ...
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<wpwrak>
hmm, nothing to see. just one obscure IL SWITCH Co., Ltd in korea, but they don't even seem to have a (at least non-asian) web site