<larsc>
have you found some website that blocks wget?
<wpwrak>
yes. digi-key, of all places
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<cde>
facT: evil scientists use wget
<cde>
so digi-key is making humanity safer
<larsc>
your mom uses wget!
<whitequark>
that was unexpected
<whitequark>
larsc: by the way, did you like SML?
<whitequark>
I'm now using lots of OCaml and it's great; SML strikes me as way too oversimplified and academic
<larsc>
yea, SML is a language made for teaching
<whitequark>
and for writing compilers
<larsc>
but to be honest I didn't follow the course through completely
<whitequark>
I think I abandoned it after a week.
<whitequark>
coincidentally, it took about a week to learn 90% of commonly used OCaml, so it was probably a good idea to not waste time.
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<wpwrak>
hmm .. where to host the pwsafe project ? qihw (in DE) or github in (the US), this is the question ...
<whitequark>
there's also gitorious in norway
<whitequark>
but I'd say github.
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<whitequark>
they don't lock you in, so even if they do something nasty, it doesn't matter very much...
<larsc>
if you want to go the free software way gitorious
* whitequark
coughs
<larsc>
why?
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<whitequark>
well, you were implying that github is "not FOSS way", and I understand your reasons
<larsc>
well gitourious is AGPL
<larsc>
github closed source
<wpwrak>
yeah, gitorious would be the 3rd choice. haven't used them yet. let's see what they have ...
<larsc>
so if you want to make a point about free software use gitorious
<larsc>
if you just want a place to host your stuff use github
<whitequark>
gitorious is ok, but they didn't put a lot of work into UI.
<whitequark>
depends on whether you actually want to use their website/issue tracker/etc or just leave files lying in git.
<larsc>
it's opensource fit it ;)
<larsc>
fix
<wpwrak>
i'm also thinking of things like commit notifications in IRC. qihw has them. github as well, though some say they're not so nice. (they may mean the join/leave noise)
<whitequark>
wpwrak: you can disable the noise
<larsc>
I think you can even setup custom scripts
<larsc>
for commit hooks
<whitequark>
there's some combination of flags on freenode which solves that
<larsc>
so you could send the update to qi-bot
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<wpwrak>
whitequark: yes, but then you need to set up the channel to allow messages from the outside
<whitequark>
I think you can permit that only for GH?
<whitequark>
not sure though
<wpwrak>
larsc: i'd love to just pick something that works :)
<wpwrak>
summer is coming. today it's 35 C. the air is full of pollen, because natures feels the spring. technically, it's of course still winter. so yeah, there's the spirit, a mix of hay fever, hibernation, and lazy siestas
* whitequark
. o O ( winter is coming )
<whitequark>
wpwrak: you lucky southern hemisphere bastard!
<whitequark>
wait. I just realized that if I fly to the opposite hemisphere each 6 months, I can have an eternal summer
<larsc>
today was the first day I wished I had packed a headband for my way home from work
<larsc>
whitequark: or eternal winter ;)
* whitequark
shudders
<larsc>
I want to have eternal early summer
<larsc>
24 degree C and I'm happy
<larsc>
but it is cooling down fast, it still was over 30 degree on saturday and about 15 today
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<wpwrak>
yeah, the time right after the pollen would be good. or maybe a warm winter day, not more than 25 C, no pollen, no gnats, ...
<larsc>
so yea winter is comming (funny how everybody now knows that phrase)
<larsc>
warm winter day is -10 ;)
<wpwrak>
hmm, a really cold day in buenos aires is slightly below 0 C at dawn
<larsc>
ok, where do I have to sign up?
<wpwrak>
but we also have winter days that are above 20 C during the day and in the mid-10 at night. that's not so bad. you still need a jacket if you go out in the evening, but it's quite tolerable
<wpwrak>
tell your boss you want to telework more :)
<larsc>
he probably won't like that
<whitequark>
no one would probably mind if I relocate to BA, but I'm somewhat hesitant
<larsc>
sometimes I wish I was a webdeveloper or something, only thing you need is your laptop and your head
<whitequark>
larsc: if you're a web developer, you don't need your brain anymore.
<whitequark>
that's for certain.
<larsc>
I used to be a web developer
<larsc>
(when I was 14)
<whitequark>
same here
<wpwrak>
as web developer, you'll need your laptop, your head, and a real job :)
<whitequark>
(but I was there longer, I think)
<whitequark>
:D
<larsc>
wpwrak: it's funny but some of these jobs actually pay really well
<wpwrak>
well, there are actually such jobs here. they recruit people who just left university, preferably within getting a diploma, pay them shit, then sell their services to clients abroad. that works pretty well
<wpwrak>
and those that pay well ... of course every lottery has some winning ticket ... ;)
<whitequark>
university?
<whitequark>
are we talking about web development?
<wpwrak>
think of it as a filter. "made it through more than one semester -> can probably read and, with the help of a team mate, write"
<wpwrak>
well, i'm exaggerating a little. the eduction isn't so bad yet, but keeps getting worse
<whitequark>
actually we have a sad joke here
<whitequark>
"made it through university -> can do useless stuff for higher-ups and not whine too much for five years straight"
<whitequark>
(which is sad because it isn't much of a joke)
<wpwrak>
gitorious: "wpwrak is watching" i already feel like someone's observing me :)
<whitequark>
most of classes, especially in less-known places, are like that... checking whether you can memorize half a hundred of pages before exam, reproduce them, and forget immediately afterwards.
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<kristianpaul>
<AD> i can secure your web pages ;-) </AD>
<kristianpaul>
wpwrak: not pay shit i meant not of all then, but here are people always want to ask less money so become hard ask for more in that conditions
<wpwrak>
next, a license ... i really want to use libopencm3. alas, it's (still) under LGPL3 ...
<wpwrak>
they're thinking of changing that to LGPL-link-with-anything (kinda LGPL as it was traditionally understood), but that hasn't happened yet and i'm not sure it ever will
<wpwrak>
hmm .. if I pick GPLv2+, that would meet the LGPLv3 compatibility (i.e., the GPLv2+ is used as meaning GPLv3+) and i think someone could still legally rewrite this to a different low-level library (replacing libopencm3), which would then allow use under GPLv2(+) conditions
<wpwrak>
does that sound correct ?
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<larsc>
well you can always dual license
<larsc>
only the resulting binary has the restrictions
<wpwrak>
that's what it basically would be: licensed under GPLv2+ but that's de facto elevated to GPLv3 by libopencm3
<cde>
licenses. can't live with them, can't live without them
<wpwrak>
indeed, indeed ...
<cde>
btw what's the problem with LGPLv3?
<cde>
it protects your freedom
<larsc>
'freedom' ;)
<whitequark>
freedom of your users, sure
<whitequark>
but certainly not yours
* whitequark
shrugs
<cde>
but you yourself are a user whitequark. so you benefit as well
<whitequark>
only if I'm not a developer
<cde>
I don't see a huge divide between users and developers. it's more of a continuum
<whitequark>
that's the thing with GPL: for owner, no strings are attached, because they're the owner. for users, no strings are attached, because freedom 0. developers are at the huge disadvantage.
<cde>
on the contrary. developers gain honour and respect
<whitequark>
if they agree with the restrictions
<cde>
correct
<whitequark>
GPL is an offensive license. that's not inherently bad, but all the talk about how GPL is the only true free license gets tiring
<cde>
in general it's not entirely free until you assign copyright to the FSF. then it becomes truely free because the FSF will not relicense under a less free license
<whitequark>
just as with proprietary ones, it's not about sharing, it's all about forcing your own view of world upon someone else
<whitequark>
for your (not necessarily monetary, of course) advantage
<cde>
in my experience, companies will reuse whatever source code they can find without contributing back
<cde>
consider Apple with iOS, for instance. BSD based, and how did it benefit the BSD community?
<whitequark>
LLVM?
<cde>
hmm yes you have a point
<cde>
Apple also contributed webkit so they aren't fully evil
* whitequark
sighs
<whitequark>
see, what I'm talking about is not whether offensive license are "good" or "evil" or whatever. mainly just about calling things their true names.
<mth>
afaik Apple kept pretty much all the code they used that is BSD licensed open; it's the frameworks that were never under BSD license that they keep secret
<whitequark>
case in point: I've considered licensing my compiler (for embedded devices) and its stdlib under GPLv3
<whitequark>
*without* linking exception.
<whitequark>
(or code generation one)
<mth>
can you claim authorship of generated code?
<whitequark>
mth: the idea was to say "here's the user code, and here's compiler-inserted code; they're useless without each other and certainly linked together".
<mth>
if compiler-inserted code is in chunks of nontrivial size, like the stdlib, that's certainly valid
<whitequark>
crudely: the body of function is user's, the prologue and epilogue are mine.
<mth>
for code generation, I'm not so sure
<whitequark>
would you *want* to check this in court?
<mth>
no, but I wouldn't bet on which side would win if it did end up in court either
<whitequark>
"no". yeah, exactly what I was aiming for, see.
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