<injekt> drbrain: question re mech, lots of code switches between using parenthesis for method definitions and not, what's your preference if i were to try and standardize them?
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<drbrain> injekt: I hate unnecessary parentheses
<drbrain> but I also avoid removing them when unnecessary
<injekt> hah, ok no worries
<drbrain> so I guess I actually have a strong distaste
<injekt> it would appear so :)
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<znz_v> biff: [ruby-changes:27030] nobu:r39082 (trunk): * remove trailing spaces. - http://mla.n-z.jp/?ruby-changes=27030
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<znz_v> biff: [ruby-changes:27031] nobu:r39083 (trunk): * ChangeLog: fix indent. - http://mla.n-z.jp/?ruby-changes=27031
<znz_v> biff: [ruby-changes:27032] nobu:r39084 (trunk): * properties. - http://mla.n-z.jp/?ruby-changes=27032
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<zzak> injekt: you will learn drbrain has a very peculiar style
<znz_v> biff: [ruby-changes:27033] nobu:r39085 (trunk): test_require.rb: shared drive - http://mla.n-z.jp/?ruby-changes=27033
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<drbrain> unak: pong
<unak> drbrain: hi
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<zzak> charliesome: hi!
<charliesome> yo
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<zzak> i removed the csv stuff
<drbrain> I was wondering if we should include CVEs in security documentation
<zzak> it was nice JEG2 deleted CSV.load, although a deprecation notice would be nice
<drbrain> zzak: add it to NEWS for him :D
<drbrain> I deleted lots of things from RDoc without deprecation, but I bumped the version.
<zzak> yeh, major release so not a big deal
<zzak> drbrain: re: CVEs in security.rdoc you mean ruby-lang.org/en/security/ ?
<drbrain> I guess we should have a link to ruby-lang.org/en/security in security.rdoc
<drbrain> no sense duplicating the information
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<zzak> agree
<unak> drbrain: are you still here?
<drbrain> unak: hi
<znz_v> biff: [ruby-changes:27034] marcandRe: r39086 (trunk): Update README to direct questions & bug reports adequately - http://mla.n-z.jp/?ruby-changes=27034
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<zzak> marcandre: developed*
<zzak> otherwise +1
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<znz_v> biff: [ruby-changes:27035] zzak:r39087 (trunk): * NEWS: Add note about removal of CSV::load and CSV::dump from r39077 - http://mla.n-z.jp/?ruby-changes=27035
<zzak> drbrain: added it under library updates
<drbrain> cool
<znz_v> biff: [ruby-changes:27036] zzak:r39088 (trunk): * doc/security.rdoc: Add link to CVEs on ruby-lang.org/en/security - http://mla.n-z.jp/?ruby-changes=27036
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<znz_v> biff: [ruby-changes:27038] usa:r39090 (ruby_1_9_3): merge revision(s) 36905: [Backport #6977] - http://mla.n-z.jp/?ruby-changes=27038
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<znz_v> biff: [ruby-changes:27044] usa:r39096 (ruby_1_9_3): merge revision(s) 35474,35479,38939,38943,38963,38991,38994: [Backport #7786] - http://mla.n-z.jp/?ruby-changes=27044
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<znz_v> biff: [ruby-changes:27046] kosaki:r39098 (trunk): * test/ruby/test_process.rb (test_setsid): ensure to call - http://mla.n-z.jp/?ruby-changes=27046
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<injekt> zzak: :D
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<zzak> so many commits :D
<_ko1> :(
<zzak> what happened to p384?
<zzak> rdoc had a cve? :(
<zzak> worst morning ever
<_ko1> is-released?
<_ko1> was-released?
<zzak> "add tag v1_9_3_384"
<zzak> whats "unreleased poor tag" haha
<znz_v> biff: [ruby-changes:27064] charliesome:r39116 (trunk): * hash.c (env_reject_bang): hide keys array from ObjectSpace - http://mla.n-z.jp/?ruby-changes=27064
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<znz_v> biff: [ruby-changes:27065] zzak:r39117 (trunk): * doc/pty/README.expect: Removed static documentation file - http://mla.n-z.jp/?ruby-changes=27065
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<zzak> still need to merge doc/pty/README and overall improve PTY docs.. but it must wait, time for work :(
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<_ko1> hi
<_ko1> I agree that to_sym is the big problem here. I don't think using to_sym is usually considered a best practice but when you have to do that it is unlikely that you're concerned about the performance hit, don't you agree?
<_ko1> I can't understand the socond sentence
<_ko1> from [ruby-core:51918] Re: [ruby-trunk - Feature #7791][Feedback] Let symbols be garbage collected
<_ko1> He doesn't think to_sym is best practice
<judofyr> _ko1: not quite sure if I get his point either.
<_ko1> When we need to do that
<_ko1> after that, I can't get
<_ko1> :)
<_ko1> difficult sentence
<judofyr> _ko1: I think he's trying to say that "if you have to use to_sym, it's most likely that you don't care about the performance"
<_ko1> simply, i don't need care, right?
<judofyr> "you don't use String#to_sym in performance critical code"
<_ko1> ah,
<_ko1> it is clear
<_ko1> thanks!
<judofyr> or, more precise: code that already uses String#to_sym is rarely performance critical
<_ko1> I understand!
<judofyr> good!
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<znz_v> biff: [ruby-changes:27066] svn:r39119 (trunk): * 2013-02-07 - http://mla.n-z.jp/?ruby-changes=27066
<znz_v> biff: [ruby-changes:27067] zzak:r39118 (trunk): * doc/security.rdoc: Link to japanese version of CVE page patch by - http://mla.n-z.jp/?ruby-changes=27067
<_ko1> interesting
<zzak> _ko1: how is r39118?
<zzak> i copy pasted the kanji
<_ko1> :)
<_ko1> It's okay.
<_ko1> But I think all Japanese programmer can read "Japanese version is here: ..."
<zzak> that is true
<zzak> patches welcome :)
<_ko1> :)
<_ko1> I know just now such document is.
<_ko1> is in trunk
<zzak> i will wait for helpful japanese documenter to fix it ;)
<_ko1> again, it is okay
<_ko1> but i feel strange only one Japanese line
<_ko1> but we can feel kindness
<zzak> there are very few japanese docs
<_ko1> Yes.
<zzak> it would be nice to have core docs and ./doc guides with japanese translations
<zzak> but i am very bad translator
<_ko1> it seems good
<_ko1> but we need more and more effort
<zzak> stdlib translation would take eternity
<_ko1> we already have rubima project
<_ko1> ah, rurema
<_ko1> This project is documents written in Japanese
<_ko1> independent efforts
<zzak> nice!
<_ko1> independent efforts between RDoc's
<_ko1> different document format and different contents
<_ko1> I feel it is good if we can co-operate
<zzak> where is source?
<_ko1> which mean the source?
<zzak> for documents, how do you contribute?
<_ko1> I found that
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<zzak> awesome
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<_ko1> rurema has another notation
<_ko1> They are based on RD
<_ko1> :)
<_ko1> Could you see my idea on Documents?
<_ko1> s/see/listen/
<zzak> _ko1: where?
<_ko1> i'll write just now :)
<_ko1> if we write
<_ko1> like:
<_ko1> class C
<_ko1> #
<_ko1> # @arg str: String
<_ko1> #
<_ko1> def foo str
<_ko1>
<_ko1> end
<_ko1> end
<_ko1> "@arg str: String" means `str' is String object
<_ko1> then
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<_ko1> we can generate the source code
<_ko1> module C_Checker
<_ko1> def foo str
<_ko1> raise TypeError unless str.kind_of?(String)
<_ko1> super
<_ko1> end
<_ko1> end
<_ko1> automatically
<_ko1> And we can use this C_Checker
<_ko1> class C
<_ko1> prepend C_Checker
<_ko1> end
<_ko1> then, all arguments can be checked each method invocation
<_ko1> using it with test cases will help to reduce test cases
<_ko1> what do you think about?
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<znz_v> biff: [ruby-changes:27068] zzak:r39120 (trunk): * doc/security.rb: Translate japanese kanji to english - http://mla.n-z.jp/?ruby-changes=27068
<_ko1> of course, other pre-condition and post-condition can be write
<zzak> hmm
<zzak> i have not used Module#prepend yet
<_ko1> Current RDoc has no argument specifier
<_ko1> I heard YARD http://rubydoc.info/docs/yard/file/docs/GettingStarted.md has such specifier
<_ko1> but natural language
<zzak> rdoc has :arg: and :args: http://rdoc.rubyforge.org/RDoc/Markup.html#label-Method+arguments
<_ko1> ah, sorry
<zzak> but i like your idea
<_ko1> thank you
<zzak> rdoc is lenient with args
<_ko1> dice>lenient
<_ko1> ah
<zzak> they are not required, and arent treated special like yard
<zzak> common request is args and return values like yard
<zzak> but rdoc is too liberal, i like it :)
<_ko1> i understand
<_ko1> i'm not sure the share of RDoc and YARD
<_ko1> population
<_ko1> most of people only use RDoc?
<_ko1> i feel RDoc and YARD has gap
<_ko1> (tag notation)
<zzak> rubygems.org says rdoc has 8,981,718 downloads
<zzak> and yard has 958,220
<_ko1> ah, i see
<_ko1> 10 times bigger
<_ko1> but 1 million YARD is also great
<_ko1> is it easy to get structured data by RDoc?
<zzak> rails depends on rdoc
<zzak> that might be why
<zzak> _ko1: structured data?
<_ko1> ah
<_ko1> If I want to generate C_Checker in the last example
<_ko1> I want to get the document data of C#foo.
<znz_v> biff: [ruby-changes:27069] marcandRe: r39121 (trunk): * vm_insnhelper.c: attr_writer should return its argument [Bug #7773] - http://mla.n-z.jp/?ruby-changes=27069
<_ko1> If the document data is structured (parsed), I can get easy
<_ko1> doc = RDoc.get_doc('C#foo')
<_ko1> doc.args #=> ['arg', 'String ...']
<_ko1> for example
<zzak> good question
<_ko1> marcandre: thank you to fix my bug!
<marcandre> _ko1: with pleasure :-)
<zzak> _ko1: pry-doc can generate documenation for method during runtime
<zzak> but it uses yard i think
<zzak> maybe send method.source_location to rdoc
<zzak> and use rdoc parser api
<zzak> but i dont know the specifics
<_ko1> should I ask drbrain? :)
<zzak> he would definitely know
<_ko1> :)
<_ko1> I don't know that matz like this idea
<_ko1> but Module#prepend is good weapon to do such a checking
<_ko1> # :arg: str [String] explanation...
<_ko1> will good notation, imo
<_ko1> [expr] is DSL to pass checker
<zzak> _ko1: its an interesting idea
<_ko1> for example
<zzak> what about duck typing?
<_ko1> good question
<_ko1> don't write anything ? :)
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<drbrain> _ko1: zzak: :arg: and :args: are to name args when you write def foo(*args) # :args: real, argument, names
<drbrain> so they are different than javadoc-style @arg
<drbrain> I do not like javadoc-style arguments, especially in yard
<_ko1> ah...
<drbrain> I see many projects that have unreadable documentation due to too much @param magic
<drbrain> it seems you can program your comments in yard, sometimes
<_ko1> So you don't like idea (maybe I asked about it before?)?
<zzak> drbrain: <3
<drbrain> _ko1: I prefer TomDoc: http://rdoc.rubyforge.org/RDoc/TomDoc.html
<drbrain> _ko1: yes
<_ko1> natural English
<zzak> we were trying to figure out how to programmatically access rdoc data for a method
<zzak> 09:32 < _ko1> doc = RDoc.get_doc('C#foo')
<zzak> 09:32 < _ko1> doc.args #=> ['arg', 'String ...']
<drbrain> what about going the other way?
<drbrain> def fib(n) contract n, :>, 0; end
<_ko1> chair bot: No more speakers
<_ko1> LoL
<_ko1> off chair bot
<_ko1> annotation in rdoc seems good for me.
<_ko1> we can add/remove checking code
<drbrain> yes
<drbrain> since RDoc now has 4 types of markup, adding as an annotation may be difficult
<drbrain> RDoc supports RDoc, Markdown, RD, TomDoc
<drbrain> perhaps using TomDoc style for annotation would work for the other three
<_ko1> # :color - The String color to restrict by (optional).
<_ko1> # :color - The [String] color to ...
<_ko1> specify "color is String" object
<_ko1> for example.
* drbrain nods
<_ko1> # Returns the duplicated String.
<_ko1> ->
<_ko1> # Returns the duplicated [String].
* drbrain nods
<zzak> kodoc
<drbrain> :D
<_ko1> # :n - [Integer] number which calculated as Fib and [it > 0].
<_ko1> but English ...
<drbrain> your style seems more natural than yard style which I like
<drbrain> I think it is acceptable
<_ko1> n.kind_of?(Integer) and n > 0
<_ko1> it is good practice for students :)
<_ko1> i'll go to bed. thanks!
<_ko1> 3:55am
<_ko1> JSt
<drbrain> good night!
<zzak> _ko1: かんばんは！
<_ko1> zzak: "かんばん" means Sign.
<_ko1> signboard
<_ko1> so "かんばんは" means "Signboad is" (no verb)
<_ko1> Maybe it is "こんばんは"
<zzak> おおps
<zzak> oops*
<_ko1> and it means "Good eveneng"
<_ko1> "Good night" should be "おやすみなさい"
<zzak> i think i meant こんばんは
<zzak> but i said かん instead of こん
<_ko1> ah
<_ko1> "Good evening" have meaning "good bye"
<zzak> acceptable good bye?
<_ko1> I never know about that -> "Good evening" have meaning "good bye"
<_ko1> so that, "good evening" is good.
<_ko1> but "こんばんは" doesn't have such meaning.
<_ko1> I assume that "hello" doesn't mean "good bye"
<zzak> good evening sounds more like greeting
<_ko1> "こんばんは" is same as "hello" in evening.
<zzak> correct
<zzak> my mistake
<_ko1> np
<_ko1> おやすみなさい :)
<zzak> おやすみなさい！
<zzak> now to translate hiragana :)
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<zzak> oyasuminasai :D
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