apeiros_ changed the topic of #ruby-lang to: Ruby 1.9.3-p327: http://ruby-lang.org (ruby-2.0.0-preview2) || Paste >3 lines of text on http://gist.github.com
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<Erlkoenig> str.gsub!([0xA9].pack("C"),"\\'a9") <-- i have a string in CP-1252 encoding, and want to replace occurences of the 0xA9 symbol with some kind of escaping sequence. however i get this error: in `gsub!': incompatible encoding regexp match (ASCII-8BIT regexp with CP850 string) (Encoding::CompatibilityError) ... how to do it correctly?
<drbrain> why do you need to escape them?
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<zenspider> zentest 4.8.3 released
<Erlkoenig> drbrain: because some retarded software (WiX) refuses to read the character when its unescaped
<drbrain> Erlkoenig: how about: s.force_encoding Encoding::Binary; s.gsub "\xA9", '\\\\\'a9'
<drbrain> oops, that should be BINARY
<drbrain> I'm assuming you wanted the result to be \'A9
<Erlkoenig> yes, exactly
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<drbrain> a) since you're working no bytes, let ruby know by saying your string is only bytes
<drbrain> b) gsub requires extra \ because \ has special meaning
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<Erlkoenig> a) yep, i didn't know how to do that... b) yeah i noticed that... is there no "plain&stupid" string replace function?
<drbrain> to replace a character with more characters, no
<drbrain> if you're swapping, #tr can do it
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<Erlkoenig> hmm okay
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<Erlkoenig> ruby doesnt accept the "\xA9", but [0xA9].pack("C") works...
<drbrain> you can use gsub with a block to get away from the \ rules, but that seems silly
<drbrain> you may need to set your file coding
<drbrain> I think [0xA9].pack "C" forces the result string to be binary
<Erlkoenig> hmm okay... probably i'll just use pack
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<Erlkoenig> funny side note: 0xA9 is the copyright symbol, ©, and the WiX software is not directly by microsoft themselves, but very "microsoft-friendly", but it chokes on that symbol...
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<zenspider> ruby_parser 3.1.0 released
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<zenspider> sexp_processor 4.1.3 released
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<banisterfiend> crankharder: ping
<zenspider> minitest 4.3.3 released
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<zenspider> ok. so seattle.rb normally has a weekly meeting that's just a low-key nerd party / hackfest
<zenspider> but for the past 3 months, we've started doing monthly meetings with sponsors, pizza, and beer. we've got up to 3 talks, and we TRY to have lightning talks.
<zenspider> we had ONE person who was not a regular give a lightning talk
<zenspider> (and it was awesome... he talked about using interrobang in method names to make them confusing)
<seydar> so. IO#getch does not seem to use buffered input. i.e., if i type a bunch of characters while i'm waiting for IO.getch to get called, it WON'T read from the characters that I've typed. anyone know a way to fix that? i'd like to have the benefit of having it in raw mode
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<zenspider> but everyone else who has given a lightning talk has been a regular member
<zenspider> what should I do to make more people give lightning talks?
<zenspider> I am threatening to hijack the beer until 5 people sign up
<zenspider> seydar: yeah. you want raw mode
<drbrain> seydar: ruby -r io/console -e 'p $stdin.getch' prints a character as soon as I type one
<zenspider> you can write a wrapper method to call out to stty, yield, and set it back; or find one of the gems to do it
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<zenspider> or that
<drbrain> zenspider: IO#getch does that
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<seydar> right, that's not my issue
<seydar> my issue is that I'd like it to read characters that were already typed
<zzak> buy me a plane ticket
<seydar> so: def read; sleep 1; STDIN.getch; end
<drbrain> ah
<seydar> yeah. call the method, type a bunch, i want to see the first character i typed
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<seydar> zenspider: that's a tricky question you pose. i'm interested in hearing the solution when you get one
<drbrain> is raw mode supposed to work that way?
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<drbrain> $stdin.raw { sleep 1; p $stdin.getch } is no better
<seydar> the hard-work method is to reach out to individuals who aren't regulars. 1 on 1 talk to/email them and say "i want you to give a lightning talk"
<drbrain> seydar: maybe $stdin.raw { sleep 1; p $stdin.getc } ?
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<seydar> drbrain: boom baby.
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<zenspider> zzak: where are you?
<seydar> drbrain: am i right in calling those characters buffered?
<drbrain> seydar: in getc vs raw? raw is unbuffered, getc is buffered
<seydar> i was trying to figure out what to call those characters that are already in STDIN before you make a #getc(h) call
<drbrain> I think getch flushes the buffer
<zzak> zenspider: vermont
<seydar> zzak: where in VT
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<seydar> drbrain: what's the cool/proper/technical name for characters in STDIN before a read is made?
<zzak> seydar: rutland
<drbrain> seydar: I'd call it a buffer
<seydar> zzak: i'm from the upper valley
<seydar> drbrain: me too. guess that's what we're gonna call it then
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<zzak> seydar: where's that, like white river?
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<seydar> yeah, like WRJ, Norwich, Hartford, etc.
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<seydar> drbrain: dammit, it's not working when folded into my code
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<seydar> works in small tests, but no more.
<zzak> zenspider: i've priced out tickets before, its like 500-600 round trip
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<seydar> flying out of NH/VT is a bitch and a half
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<seydar> either you trek down to boston or you suffer from shitty flight selections
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<zenspider> zzak: yeah. fuck you. Move to SF or something and we'll talk. :P
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<shachaf> I heard SF was the place to be, man.
* shachaf used to go to Seattle.rb occasionally once upon a time.
<seydar> fuck this. this is hard.
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<zzak> seydar: manchester isn't bad
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<zzak> seydar: boston would be best, actually took a bus from boston to white river once, it was only $27
<zzak> cheaper than what i paid for the parking garage on tuesday in boston, for the day it was $35
<seydar> hahaha classic
<zzak> our car broke down in the cape so i got a ride to boston and took the bus back and had to hitchhike home from the junction
<seydar> how as hitchhiking in the area?
<seydar> i try to pick people but i haven't hitchhiked there myself
<zzak> vermont is fine
<zzak> a lot of through hikers so people are used to it
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<zzak> flying out of boston is a lot more reasonable, actually more like $350ish
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<seydar> it was gonna be ~$600 to get home for thanksgiving this year from school in michigan
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<seydar> i figured i would give my parents to finger and just stay at school
<seydar> oh man
<seydar> drbrain: remember that halloween photo of mine from like 2008?
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<whitequark> hey zenspider, thanks for ruby_parser. extending it is really easy.
<whitequark> I absolutely love how you wrote the racc grammars.
<zzak> zenspider: dont know racc
<whitequark> huh?
<zzak> zenspider: btw, how about merging that travis ci bit?
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<whitequark> which one is better?
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<heftig> whitequark: b, IMO
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<whitequark> heftig: unfortunately B is ambiguous with stabby lambda
<heftig> buck stabby lambda :p
<whitequark> well... I've selected C for now, it fits pretty well and isn't ambiguous with anything
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<Paradox> C
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<mfn> Just curious, any idea if there are alternatives too roo (reading and to some extent writing OpenOffice calc or Excel(X)) ?
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<mfn> drbrain: nice, thank you!
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<jaska> holy nick change
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<intellitech> runeb, luckily I have a mute button, since I can't disable my channel notifications on a per event per user basis. if I didn't, I'd be raging about your constant join/parting.
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<intellitech> ffs
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<jaska> i have joins quits leaves ignored.. guess i need to add the nick changes :D
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<zenspider> zzak: which?
<zenspider> zzak: if you're referring to the minitest travis PR, the answer is a firm "no" at this point. I'm getting spammed by travis CI already
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<yorickpeterse> Morning
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<masterkorp> hello
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<judofyr> hey masterkorp
<masterkorp> judofyr: good morning sir
<judofyr> btw, have you seen the new regexp features in Ruby 2.0? http://c.judofyr.net/ruby/regexp-2.0/
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<judofyr> (that was a message for all of you)
<chris2> i want a regexp engine that detects exponential runtime
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<andrewvos> I want a dinosaur.
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<yorickpeterse> judofyr: shit, I only just realized you're the Timeless repo gy
<yorickpeterse> * guy
<judofyr> yorickpeterse: :D
<judofyr> yorickpeterse: I haven't updated it though
<yorickpeterse> I think I've been reading that blog for a good two years now
<judofyr> yorickpeterse: what'd you think?
<yorickpeterse> I wouldn't have it in my feed reader if I'd think it was shit :)
<judofyr> :)
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<andrewvos> You guysssss
<andrewvos> So sweet
<judofyr> andrewvos: we love you too
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<judofyr> andrewvos: so, doing anything interesting?
<yorickpeterse> Static site generators: Jekyll vs Nanoc
<yorickpeterse> GO!
<judofyr> yorickpeterse: Hyde
<yorickpeterse> By the looks of it Jekyll isn't really maintained these days (last commit was 6 months ago)
<yorickpeterse> judofyr: hurrr
<yorickpeterse> wait...there actually is a thing called Hyde?
<judofyr> yorickpeterse: I've heard good things about Nanoc
<judofyr> yorickpeterse: don't think so
<yorickpeterse> meh python
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<injekt> yorickpeterse: nanoc is awesome
<injekt> ddfreyne is awesome
<ddfreyne> \o/
<ddfreyne> and nanoc is actively maintained too
<ddfreyne> I’m almost ready to release a new big version! Maybe as a christmas present.
<ddfreyne> And there’ll be a brand new web site very early next year!
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<ddfreyne> And I’ll be speaking at FOSDEM!
<ddfreyne> So as you can see, nanoc si teh bestest.
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<ddfreyne> and if you still don’t like nanoc, pick something else: http://nanoc.stoneship.org/docs/1-introduction/#similar-projects
<injekt> wow there are a lot
<ddfreyne> yep :)
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<yorickpeterse> Hmm, then I suppose it's time to move my site over to nanoc
<yorickpeterse> running a DB for something that only changes once/twice a year is an overkill
<yorickpeterse> ddfreyne: so is nanoc webscale?
<yorickpeterse> or do I need to install Node.js for that?
* yorickpeterse runs
<injekt> or use java
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<gnufied> ddfreyne: awesomeness
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<andrewvos> judofyr: Nothing lately no
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<andrewvos> judofyr: I wanted to play with that Levenshtein distance code and maybe write something for capybara/rspec that can do better error messages
<andrewvos> judofyr: Like if you try click a link with the id "usernme" it could say "did you mean 'username'?"
<judofyr> andrewvos: hm… "did you mean"?
<andrewvos> Yea
<judofyr> cool
<andrewvos> judofyr: But nothing too interesting :(
<ddfreyne> yorickpeterse: it generates static HTML files so that should scale pretty well :)
<yorickpeterse> nah man, it needs node.js
<yorickpeterse> Are there any plugins for it that can minify CSS/JS for you or do I have to do that myself?
<ddfreyne> yeah those exist. There’s Rainpress and YUICompressor
<yorickpeterse> I meant as some rake task that does it
<yorickpeterse> Or something similar
<manveru> write your own, takes like 3 lines including "end"
<manveru> though i say that about pretty much everything :)
<ddfreyne> yorickpeterse: you’d implement that as a filter that you run
<ddfreyne> yorickpeterse: so you’d run markdown first, then erb, then rubypants, and finally a compressor filter, or something like that
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<yorickpeterse> hmm
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<whitequark> zenspider: why do RP tests fail?
<whitequark> /home/whitequark/ruby_parser/test/test_ruby_parser.rb:30:in `<class:RubyParserTestCase>': undefined method `make_my_diffs_pretty!' for RubyParserTestCase:Class (NoMethodError)
<whitequark> oh, and it also depends on hoe-isolate which is nowhere to be found.
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<Steve-W> oops, wrong channel :-)
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<oddmunds> Steve-W: cool ink, though
<oddmunds> link
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<Steve-W> Do people generally object to offtopic stuff in here?
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<unsymbol> Steve-W: not sure. it seems to be 'all business' here tbh
<unsymbol> but i've only been idling for a few weeks
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<whitequark> grmbl
<whitequark> hoe makes it impossible to use bundler with gem :git => ...
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<yfeldblum> whitequark, so don't use hoe
<whitequark> yfeldblum: I don't, ruby_parser does. I don't want to fork it and fuck everything up inside, but I have to.
<yfeldblum> whitequark, :D
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<tubbo> does ruby's Array have an indexOf method kinda like JS?
<tubbo> i want to search an array for a given value and return its index
<andrewvos> tubbo: What are you trying to do?
<andrewvos> tubbo: I quite often find you don't need to do that sort of thing in ruby
<andrewvos> Not sure why
<andrewvos> What are you trying to achieve tubbo? (that sounds like an insult)
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<andrewvos> (why you eating all those doughnuts tubbo) etc.
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<manveru> >> [:a,:b,:c].index(:b)
<manveru> => 1
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<tubbo> haha
<tubbo> andrewvos: i need to rewrite a specific position in an array of lines that i'm parsing, but i don't know which position it is.
<tubbo> so i have something like ["Description:", "On another line because fuck programmers amirite?"]
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<tubbo> i need to know where "Description:" is, then look at the next line and accept that as my "description"
<andrewvos> tubbo: Ewww
<tubbo> so i wanted to do something like a.each_with_index.reduce(0) { |rv, line, index| rv = index if line =~ /\ADescription:/ } but that didn't work
<tubbo> haha
<andrewvos> tubbo: What are you parsing?
<andrewvos> tubbo: What *ungodly file format* are you parsing?
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<manveru> that ungodly file format is awfully close to http headers :)
<manveru> not sayin that they aren't ungodly... but they're not as bad as http multipart
<andrewvos> Agreed
<andrewvos> tubbo: Just use a regex?
<manveru> hm
<tubbo> text
<tubbo> plain text, like from an email
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<tubbo> i got it in there, just had to do some kludgy stuff
<manveru> how do you get the lines?
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<manveru> >> "Some: hi\nOther: bye\nDescription: some\nFoo: bar".each_line{|l| break $1 if l =~ /^Description:\s*(.+)/ }
<manveru> => "some"
<andrewvos> manveru: The description text is on the next line
<andrewvos> manveru: Not like http headers
<andrewvos> "Description:\nOH HAI"
<manveru> oh
<bougyman> /^Description:\n(.*?)\n/m
<bougyman> /^Description:\n(.*?)\n/m
<andrewvos> Yeah, probably the easiest way.
<andrewvos> bougyman++
<bougyman> so long as there's no space after Description
<andrewvos> Then ALL HELL BREAKS LOOSE
<bougyman> /^Description:\s+?\n(.*?)\n/m could get around that
<bougyman> but may be major fail
<manveru> i prefer [ \t]* or the like
<bougyman> i prefer to not use regex.
<rking> manveru: BUT WHAT ABOUT VTABS??
<bougyman> if your matching something so discrete
<rking> bougyman: Really? What would you do instead?
<bougyman> awk 'BEGIN{found=0}/^Description/{found=1}found==1{print;found=0}'
<bougyman> something akin to that
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<rking> That's a regex
<manveru> rking: they're \v, no?
<bougyman> it doesn't have to be, rking
<bougyman> just did that for brevity
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<rking> manveru: Yeah, I was kidding about that. Actually I don't think \v is in \s
<zzak> if you're just parsing http, why not use cgi module?
<bougyman> awk 'BEGIN{found=0}$1=="Description:"{found=1}found==1{print;found=0}'
<bougyman> no regex
<manveru> more like, what about all the other things [[:whitespace:]] would match
<rking> manveru: But I have no idea who uses them anyway
<manveru> zzak: it's not http :)
<rking> bougyman: I'm not sure what advantage that has.
<rking> It's voicing it in a different language, and seems like just as much work to understand or write than the equivalent regex.
<bougyman> rking: it's a pattern of "find the exact line, then print the one following it"
<bougyman> it could be done in ruby, awk's just more built for it
<manveru> rking:
<rking> U vtabbin me bro?
<manveru> wtf
<manveru> i couldn't type "j" for some reason
<manveru> anw, japanese use a couple of their own whitespace chars
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<zzak>   
<judofyr> bougyman: ruby -ne'BEGIN{f=!0};puts $_ if f;f=$_=="Description:\n"'
<bougyman> judofyr: yep, same thing
<judofyr> it's not that bad
<bougyman> i hate using ruby in -n mode.
<bougyman> the damn $_ give me the prel willies.
<judofyr> haha
<judofyr> it's awesome :)
<judofyr> Kernel#sub!
<judofyr> and -p
<bougyman> -F, too
<bougyman> awk is just better at it.
<bougyman> as it should be, it's why it was built.
<oddmunds> bougyman: never knew about -n thanks!
<bougyman> oddmunds: thank judofyr
<rking> oddmunds: Then also check out -p
<bougyman> -p autoprints
<bougyman> with -F and -pn you get ruby in awk mode
<bougyman> -F is the field splitter.
<judofyr> oddmunds: echo "foo" | ruby -pe'sub "f", "b"'
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<oddmunds> the help didn't help me understand -p
<bougyman> it prints each line
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<judofyr> oddmunds: -n runs the expression for each line (sets $_ to the line)
<judofyr> oddmunds: -p runs the expression for each line and then outputs $_
<oddmunds> right
<oddmunds> ah
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<oddmunds> i get it
<oddmunds> sounds superhandy
<oddmunds> instead of running a script and rerunning it for every test
<oddmunds> "test" was poor choice of word
<judofyr> oddmunds: and Kernel#sub will modify $_ for you
<judofyr> hm
<judofyr> actually, it's not Kernel#sub
<judofyr> it's a method only defined in -np
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<manveru> must be a nicer way
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<manveru> lines = input.each_line; loop{ break lines.next if lines.next.start_with?("Description:") }
<manveru> something like that
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<judofyr> ruby -ne'puts $_ if $o=="Description:\n";$o=$_' :)
<manveru> a bit silly shelling out to ruby from ruby
<judofyr> manveru: that double #next seems funky
<judofyr> oh, are we shelling out?
<whitequark> judofyr: it's Kernel#sub
<whitequark> $ echo 'foo' | ruby -pe 'p(method(:sub))'
<manveru> what do you pipe for?
<judofyr> whitequark: yes, but it's still only defined in -pn
<judofyr> manveru: I thought we were in the shell
<whitequark> judofyr: oh. perverse.
<manveru> judofyr: nope
<judofyr> oki
<judofyr> each_cons(2) then?
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<manveru> that would assume it's always even pairs
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<judofyr> .each_cons(2).detect { |o, _| o == "Description:" }.last
<judofyr> manveru: no. that's each_slice
<manveru> yeah, i know, but that doesn't work for "a\nDescription:\nb"
<judofyr> manveru: true
<judofyr> just add "\n" then :)
<judofyr> s/add/prepend/
<judofyr> anyway
<judofyr> gotta go
<judofyr> brb
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<rue> A remarkable number of problems can be solved by normalization
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<foucist> a remarkable number of problems can be solved by recognizing everything is a state machine or needs a state machine
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<foucist> did you know regexp is a form of FSM? and that FSM is also a form of BNF?
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<rue> NO REALLY
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<_sillymarkets> Can anyone help me with using %x to send system terminal commands, really quickly? I want to use ruby to kick off a Beyond Compare script
<_sillymarkets> %x("bcompare @\"bcompare_html_script.txt" "#{variable1}" "#{variable2}" "reports.html\"")
<_sillymarkets> but it is erroring with: "not found"
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<ddd> btw, its %x[]
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<ddd> never seen %x() before
<ddd> oh damn! i guess it does work. ignore me.
<ddd> don't put each on in "#{}" of their own. if you're trying to build up a full commandline then use a single set of "" and interpolate in the single string buildup
<ddd> and what is the @ for?
<_sillymarkets> i kind of follow you, can you give a brief example?
<ddd> %x("bcompare bcompare_html_script.txt #{variable1} #{variable2} reports.html")
<_sillymarkets> the @ is necessary for bcompare to kick off... bcompare needs this command from terminal to auto-start ........ bcompare @"script.txt" "file1.txt" "file2.txt" "report.html"
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<_sillymarkets> thats the string i need Ruby to pass to system/shell and it should auto kick off Bcompare
<_sillymarkets> I believe bcompare needs those quotes around the separate file names for it take the command, so the single string may not work
<ddd> yeah seeing it now. even with ls
<ddd> gimme a sec
<ddd> ahh got it
<_sillymarkets> what did you try?
<ddd> don't use the "". like this: asset1 = "-alh" ; asset2 = "./" ; %x[ls #{asset1} #{asset2}]
<ddd> look closely in the %x format
<ddd> now let me see about passing the "" themselves
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<ddd> %x[ls #{asset1} \"hello there.txt\"] works
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<ddd> in the shell you need either "" around the full filename, or use '\ to hardcode the space in the name. since you're using "" I used that. put \" to pass the " explicitly. worked here
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<ddd> see if %x(bcompare @\"bcompare_html_script.txt #{variable1} #{variable2} reports.html\")
<ddd> works
<ddd> you shojuldn't need that @ either
<_sillymarkets> beyondcompare requires that @
<ddd> ahh might have to \ t too idk
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<_sillymarkets> it took the other stuff, but its not taking that @
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<_sillymarkets> hmm
<ddd> w or w/o the \ ?
<ddd> try \\@
<ddd> might need to pass the \ directly to the shell, so escape the \ itself (two \)
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<_sillymarkets> hm, now i got it saying "sh: 1: not found" but it fully displays the entire string
<_sillymarkets> its just trying to open a file with that name instead of passing it to terminal to envoke beyond compare, it seems
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<_sillymarkets> think i got it
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<_sillymarkets> using "system()" instead of %x
<_sillymarkets> thanks for your help man
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<ddd> _sillymarkets: no problem :)
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<imperator> howdy
<zzak> imperator: hi!
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<seydar> whitequark: let's talk about this mysterious embedded compiler you're writing
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<seydar> unrelated: i am looking for guinea pigs to try a Ruby shell
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<pangel> I want to send and receive to/from multiple peers in UDP without blocking. I don't know much about network programming. Is it possible to do it all on a single port using events?
<seydar> http://bitbucket.org/seydar/chitin -- i'm looking for feedback on it
<seydar> pangel: on one port, yes. think of an HTTP server: it sends packets to multiple peers and receives packets from multiple peers, all from port 80
<pangel> seydar: How should I go about doing it?
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<seydar> actually, it sounds like you can't have multiple connections to one port, which sounds weird to me.
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<drbrain> seydar: with UDP you can, it's special
<seydar> can you not with TCP?
<drbrain> since TCP is a stream protocol, no
<seydar> i thought you could with both, and then i read something just now where a guy was complaining that all of his UDP connected peers were on one port
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<seydar> so hold up, how does TCP deal with multiple clients? does it switch them to alternate ports?
<drbrain> as a TCP client you can talk to one server
<drbrain> as a TCP server you can talk to many clients (by calling accept on the socket and getting a new socket
<drbrain> but you can't be a server and client on the same socket
<drbrain> with UDP you can use #send with a destination socket address (third argument) and receiv
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<drbrain> Socket#recvfrom gives you the message nda the sender's addrinfo
<seydar> d'oh, i'm conflating socket with port. how close are the two?
<drbrain> a socket is a pipe
<drbrain> it runs on some port on some address
<drbrain> (hand waving past UNIX sockets)
<seydar> are there a limited amount of ports?
<drbrain> it depends on the protocol, UDP and TCP have 65535 ports available each (0 is special)
<seydar> probs, which is why we have load balancers
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<drbrain> load balancers solve a different problem
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<drbrain> for HTTP or HTTPS balancing you only connect to port 80 and 443, so you don't have a problem with port exhaustion
<rue> You can have umpteen gabillion connections to your 65535 ports
<seydar> ok, explain that magic: http/s can only connect to port 80/443. but they deal with multiple clients concurrently
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<seydar> rue: right there. that magic
<drbrain> if you want to test your load handling capability for TCP protocols you need lets of outbound ports
<drbrain> (depending on how big you are)
<seydar> oh. once again. the conflation of ports and sockets.
<rue> He’s about 6'2"
<seydar> ports are needed so i can have 65535 different programs listening at once
<seydar> and each of them can take umpteen gabillion connections
<drbrain> seydar: or making outbound TCP connection
<seydar> right, thank you
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<seydar> bizarre problem: every link i click to on youtube takes me to soundcloud.com/... instead. same url for everything after the domain
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<rue> It’s probably a bacterium
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<seydar> like i'm actually so confused.
<seydar> this happened once before where facebook went to myspace
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<seydar> how do I find the last day of the month?
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<seydar> derp. Date.new 2013, -1, -1
<seydar> but still. a method for an already instantiated date object would be 1337
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<zenspider> Has _anyone_ used $= = true ????
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<apeiros_> why? want to gather a lynch mob? :)
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* apeiros_ thinks those globals are a horrible thing and shouldn't be touched
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<zzak> zenspider: i was talking about racc
<zenspider> apeiros_: just never seen it used. can't come up with a usecase for it. don't get it
<zenspider> zzak: oh. that's up to tenderlove, not me.
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<zzak> zenspider: ok i will ping him
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<apeiros_> zenspider: as said, I think actually using them is IMO a horrible idea
<tpope> $= sounds pretty terrible even as far as globals go
<apeiros_> I mean how to better break code than change behavior globally…
<apeiros_> (and rather unexpectedly)
<apeiros_> plays in a similar league as mathn's monkey patch of Integer#/
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<Spaceghostc2c> Dear god of lolwat. :(
<whitequark> $= is deprecated really long ago, isn't it?
<zenspider> tpope: yeah. this one seems particularly heinous... not sure how long it has been deprecated.
<zenspider> maybe we could push for removal now
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<zzak> zenspider: did you see ri ruby:globals yet?
* apeiros_ would remove all single letter $ vars
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<zzak> it is verbatim
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<whitequark> apeiros_: +1
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<whitequark> but things like $: are used by a whole lot of people
<zenspider> zzak: no, I haven't
<zenspider> take away my $: and I'll use some other impl
<tpope> zenspider: $= isn't even from perl. it was invented for ruby :/
<apeiros_> whitequark: deprecation with a sensible message
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<apeiros_> "$: is deprecated, please use $LOAD_PATH"
<whitequark> well, $: is quite better than $INCLUDE_PATH or how it is
<whitequark> ah, $LOAD_PATH
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<apeiros_> $: tells nothing
<apeiros_> $LOAD_PATH at least is guessable
<whitequark> $: is very common
<whitequark> and it is quite convenient where it's used
<apeiros_> and if you don't like writing, your editor surely allows you to add an expansion for $: to $LOAD_PATH
<whitequark> on the other hand, things like $` or $' are rarely ever used
<apeiros_> (and if not, *use another editor* ffs :-p)
<whitequark> apeiros_: I don't like reading that, but yes, you have a point.
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<whitequark> it would also be weird to deprecate every other global and keep $:
<tpope> $` and $' are in a separate category because they're not really globals
<whitequark> kinda missing the point.
<whitequark> tpope: we're talking about names here
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<whitequark> I know they're frame-local
<whitequark> which also makes them way more evil, but I digress
<apeiros_> :)
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<whitequark> what I'd definitely vote to keep is $1..$262144
<whitequark> github style guide recommends using named capture groups, but they're a hack on their own
<tpope> does it really go to $262144? :/
<whitequark> tpope: yeah, I've checked that some time ago
<tpope> I put $` and $' in the same category
<tpope> the category of "kind of weird and gross, but the other methods are comparatively awkward"
<whitequark> tpope: have you ever seen them being used, or, have you ever seen a person who could say what they do?
<whitequark> $3 is quite obvious if you've ever used regexps
<tpope> I feel like I've used $` and $' before
<tpope> admittedly rarely
<tpope> and $&
<tpope> I wish the block form of gsub passed a match object
<whitequark> and, for that matter, the fact that you need to parse regexps in order to find which local variables are defined in your programs, or that you need to know that regexps can introduce new local variables in the scope if they're used in a certain position relative to the match operator...
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<apeiros_> and without interpolations
<whitequark> seriously, $2 is _way_ easier
<whitequark> apeiros_: oh. lovely. another quirk.
<tpope> yeah that's even worse
<yorickpeterse> Hm, seems gems testers died a silent death
<tpope> $2 at least tells you "look for the nearest regexp"
<apeiros_> yorickpeterse: yes, erikh said something about heroku(?) losing his DB…
<whitequark> tpope: I mean, I appreciate the fact that they tried to make it better, but it's kinda fail :/
<yorickpeterse> apeiros_: lol?
<tpope> the matchdata object should reign surpreme
<whitequark> tpope: isn't there a frame-local gvar which returns the matchdata object?
<tpope> $~
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<apeiros_> $~ is actually vital
<apeiros_> there's things you can't do without it
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<apeiros_> (well, ok, you could use the Regexp.last_match equivalent)
<tpope> same difference
<whitequark> aliased as $LAST_MATCH_INFO
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<tpope> I mean it should be explicitly returned instead of grabbed from thin air
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<whitequark> if I'd be the one to decide (and it's probably a good thing that I am not), I'd nuke everything except $:, $!, $<, $> and possibly $?, and then discuss everything else
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<whitequark> $; and $, are on a similar level of evilness as the $=
<banisterfiend> what does $= do
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<whitequark> banisterfiend: globally makes string comparisons case-insensitive
<zenspider> wow... did I derail this into some mentabatory BS or what??? I win!
<whitequark> zenspider: oh, yes, that sentence is very consistent with the way your code is written.
<tpope> burn?
<zenspider> heh
<whitequark> tpope: if I'd rewrite everything I don't like, I won't have a life. or have even less life than I do now.
<whitequark> through I'm tempted to...
<zenspider> so... I'm updating the quickref. adding minitest assertions/refutions. prolly adding minitest/spec expectations. minitest examples.
<zenspider> adding English.rb alias table
<zenspider> removing test/unit
<zenspider> prolly should remove crap like Observable Delegate and Singleton
<zenspider> anything else?
<zenspider> corundum: quickref?
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<zenspider> I'm making the assertion lists look like sorta-actual code rather than arg names
<whitequark> zenspider: that sounded more harsh than it probably should have been, sorry. what I was referring to is just the RubyParserExtras, which practically consists of hacks hacking hacks.
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<whitequark> and yes, I understand that the proc sometimes returns s(:args) and sometimes 0 in place of it because ParseTree did that, but no, that doesn't make it less fucked up.
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<whitequark> or make it a better design.
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<zenspider> whitequark: no offense taken. I know you come off like a bit of a dick and I calibrate accordingly. :P
<zenspider> 0 says that no args is enforced. s(:args) is loose
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<whitequark> zenspider: what I want is to be able to simply recursively iterate the AST
<whitequark> and when AST sometimes has symbols/integers and sometimes Sexps in the same place, it's not easy nor convenient
<zenspider> that's nice. I had a discussion when RP was in beta to discuss the format of args for iters. I blogged it. Had a ticket open. Etc... you didn't speak up. It will stay the way it is until at least 4.0
<whitequark> zenspider: I missed that, unfortunately.
<zzak> zenspider: you using rdoc? i patched English.rb to be a little nicer
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<zenspider> zzak: markdown
<zzak> sorry, lib/README
<zenspider> lemme polish a bit and I'll sync up and let you guys bash on it
<zzak> you can use markdown with rdoc 4
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<whitequark> zenspider: you have RSS? I'd definitely want to discuss the sexp format in the future.
<zenspider> this is part of my website... I don't use rdoc to process it
<zzak> zenspider: is quickref on github or something? i can merge your changes upstream
<zzak> ahh
<zenspider> I have it in perforce :P
<zzak> ok well ping me or whatever when you update it
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