apeiros_ changed the topic of #ruby-lang to: Ruby 1.9.3-p327: http://ruby-lang.org (ruby-2.0.0-preview2) || Paste >3 lines of text on http://gist.github.com
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<jkyle> /kjkjk/iwn lst
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<richardjortega> how do you gsub a string with special characters?
<richardjortega> for instance "“yummy”" which has a special character of quotes, U+FFE2
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<micaeked> richardjortega: what are you trying to do? replace the quotes with something? if so, you can specify unicode chars in regex like this: "“yummy”".gsub(/\u201c/, 'x')
<richardjortega> micaeked: i'm just trying to remove the special character quotes
<richardjortega> that removed the first, but not the other quote
<richardjortega> returned "yummy”"
<micaeked> richardjortega: yep. here it is for both: "“yummy”".gsub(/[\u201c\u201d]/, '')
<richardjortega> i ended up doing str.slice(1..-2)
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<richardjortega> micaeked: that worked!
<richardjortega> which do you think is a better approach, the regex gsub or just splicing out first and last?
<micaeked> i would go with the match/replace, unless you are 100% sure that the input will always have the quotes in those positions
<richardjortega> as far as i can tell, every single one is quoted from the source i'm getting it from
<richardjortega> so i'll do slicing as that matches
<richardjortega> but i'm curious, how did you find the special character coverted
<richardjortega> when i copy pasted the string in terminal it gave me \U+FFE2
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<drbrain> I would do: "“yummy”".encode Encoding::US_ASCII, invalid: :replace, undef: :replace, replace: ""
<drbrain> that'll take away any non-US-ASCII character
<drbrain> you can also just get rid of punctuation: "“yummy”".gsub(/\p{Punctuation}/, "")
<drbrain> richardjortega: ↑
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<micaeked> richardjortega: i did str.chars.map(&:ord) to get the integer values, then googled those to get unicode values. then looked up how to put specific unicode chars in regex
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<richardjortega> those are all great idea thank you
<richardjortega> testing them out now
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<drbrain> richardjortega: the first would turn "resumé" into "resum", so beware it
<richardjortega> got a quick rails question too… i'd like to store number/floats like "5" or "4.5", can I use just integer data type or should i use decimal?
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<drbrain> the integer DB type would convert 4.5 to 4 or 5 (depending on the exact value)
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<richardjortega> ah damn, then decimal data type i should be using
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<drbrain> richardjortega: you can also perform transliteration with String#encode, but you have to build the character map yourself
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<drbrain> such as mapping "©" to "(c)"
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<yorickpeterse> Morning
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<charliesome> banisterfiend: ping
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<rohit> charliesome, Hey you made better_errors! Nice work :)
<charliesome> rohit: cheers!
<banisterfiend> charliesome: sup
<charliesome> banisterfiend: ran into an issue with binding_of_caller's output not lining up with caller's output
<charliesome> i figure it's because caller includes c frames and binding_of_caller doens't
<banisterfiend> charliesome: yeah
<charliesome> would it be possible to add a flag that makes binding_of_caller put nil where a c frame is?
<banisterfiend> binding_of_caller has to skip c frames as i cant get bindings to them
<charliesome> so i can zip the two together
<banisterfiend> i'll look into it
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<banisterfiend> charliesome: btw
<charliesome> yah
<banisterfiend> charliesome: why dont you just rebuild the frame data from the binding?
<banisterfiend> charliesome: i have things like: Binding#description
<charliesome> oh do you
<charliesome> that makes my life significantly easier!
<banisterfiend> charliesome: Yeah, i added some extra methods on Binding
<charliesome> just for bindings you return?
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<charliesome> cool
<banisterfiend> charliesome: just for bindings that are returned from my API, though i added the methods on Binding itself, they only return non-nil in the case of of_caller/callers bindings
<charliesome> ah cool
<charliesome> can't wait for ruby 2.0.0 to include all this stuff natively
<banisterfiend> the current 2.0 API is very segfaulty and limited
<banisterfiend> im working on improving it
<banisterfiend> charliesome: look at the show-stack command of pry-stack_explorer
<banisterfiend> i show a custom stack trace built with boc apis
<charliesome> brb
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<andrewvos> charliesome: You're the talk of the interwebs at the moment
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<gnufied> charliesome is #ruby-lang celeberity. :-)
<gnufied> (honestly, good work though)
<andrewvos> charliesome: Will you sign my breast?
<charliesome> you gotta get to melbourne first
<andrewvos> charliesome: I'M COMING
<banisterfiend> charliesome: it could be there's private api changes between 1.9.3 patchlevels
<banisterfiend> that's causing the symbol lookup errors
<charliesome> banisterfiend: ah yeah because you're using that dodgy ruby_headers thing
<banisterfiend> charliesome: where else would i get that info from?
<banisterfiend> rubys are not guaranteed to have the source stick around
<charliesome> yeah it's not like there's many ways around it
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<charliesome> i'm using 1.9.3-p286 locally
<banisterfiend> charliesome: use rvm to test it locally on different patch levels
<charliesome> yep will do
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<charliesome> i might start using travis so i can test on a bunch of different patch levels
<banisterfiend> and tell me the ones that fail
<charliesome> i ran into a bug today where my specs would segfault one time out of five
<charliesome> only seemed to happen if i stubbed backtrace on an Exception though
<banisterfiend> did it give any info about the segfault?
<banisterfiend> sometimes it says stuff like "dfp consistency error"
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<charliesome> i told this guy i know to learn ruby
<charliesome> anyway he just sent me a message saying
<charliesome> "omg blocks are the greatest invetion in history"
<judofyr> :)
<judofyr> charliesome: did you see the developer meeting log?
<charliesome> judofyr: i was sitting in live
<judofyr> charliesome: ah, right, it wasn't in the middle of the night for you :)
<judofyr> charliesome: what'd you think?
<charliesome> yeah it was 10 am
<charliesome> i think some progress was made, but i didn't like that they told the mri guys they could still implement whatever they like
<charliesome> i mean sure any implementation should be able to implement whatever it likes
<charliesome> but MRI is special
<charliesome> because it's the de facto implementation
<charliesome> if MRI implements something outside of rubyspec, people WILL start using it, and other impls will be pressured into supporting it too
<charliesome> and all of a sudden you have unspecced features in the wild that people are using
<charliesome> and we're back to square one
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<judofyr> charliesome: that was my point in http://blade.nagaokaut.ac.jp/cgi-bin/scat.rb/ruby/ruby-core/50750
<charliesome> i had the greatest idea while reading the meeting
<judofyr> charliesome: I think the "100% consensus" idea is ridiculous
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<charliesome> what if there was a ruby implementation that was designed from the ground up to be a test bed implementation
<charliesome> sort of like rakudo is for perl 6
<charliesome> it isn't an impl you'd use in production, it wouldn't care about performance
<charliesome> but it would care about being extensible and highly modifiable
<charliesome> preferably it'd also be written in a higher level language
<judofyr> not because I think people will start vetoing everything because of malice, but because each implementation has limited resources. if rbx says "hey, let's make actors standard!" I'm not sure if MRI has the capacity to implement it.
<judofyr> charliesome: isn't rbx pretty close?
<charliesome> pretty close but i don't like that the core is in c++
<charliesome> and i can imagine that rbx's goal of being fast would interfere with the goal of making deep changes easy
<judofyr> charliesome: what about something like PyPy's RPython?
<charliesome> judofyr: that's getting closer, but at the same time, there's still a lot of code there that is concerned with performance
<charliesome> if the performance concern is thrown out of the window completely, i think you'd find that the implementation becomes significantly simpler and easier to understand
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<judofyr> charliesome: interesting ideas, but again: why has the resources? :)
<charliesome> so many ideas, too little time
<judofyr> oh yes
<judofyr> I haven't been able to do anything on my little language :(
<charliesome> judofyr: what are you writing it in?
<charliesome> ruby?
<judofyr> charliesome: yes, an interpreter in Ruby.
<charliesome> you should do it in haskell
<judofyr> probably
<judofyr> charliesome: but it's going to be a semi-compiled language, so it will compile to JS/C
<charliesome> ah
<charliesome> i was toying with a js interpreter in haskell
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<charliesome> but then haskell gave me the shits with its "no circular imports" problem
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<judofyr> inspired by whitequark's Ruby and picobit
<judofyr> charliesome: I'm also playing with the idea of "incidental typing"
<charliesome> what's that?
<judofyr> you can define pre-condition functions: Foo = [value] { assert value.is_a?(String) }
<judofyr> and then use them in function declarations: [Foo thing] { … }
<judofyr> semantic-wise, it will invoke Foo for the value
<charliesome> cool!
<judofyr> and then the compiler should be smart enough to realize that `thing` must be a String
<judofyr> and optimize the function body based on that
<manveru> isn't that called type inference?
<charliesome> what about pathological pre conditions
<charliesome> will you just ignore them at compile time and leave it to runtime?
<judofyr> charliesome: yes
<judofyr> and it can also give compile-time warnings
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* manveru likes how go doesn't have warnings, only fatal compile errors
<manveru> nobody ever reads ruby warnings :(
<charliesome> nobody ever runs with warnings on
<manveru> that too
<manveru> it's just me
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<charliesome> i don't find warnings are even that useful in ruby
<judofyr> manveru: well, they will be more like fatal errors (because they *will* cause runtime errors)
<charliesome> unlike a language like C, where i compile with -Wall -Wextra -pedantic and -Werror
<manveru> that's just as braindead :P
<manveru> they come up with new flags every year or so
<charliesome> i like how -Wall is not actually all
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<judofyr> charliesome: LLVM has added -Weverything
<charliesome> sort of like how php's E_ALL is not all
<charliesome> which is why php has E_ACTUALLY_ALL
<judofyr> nice
<charliesome> lol php
<judofyr> and lolc :)
<charliesome> E_ACTUALLY_ALL, real_escape, etc
<manveru> php still has errors you can't rescue
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<manveru> and i like how their idea of threading is `php other.php &`
<judofyr> charliesome: but yeah, I still haven't figured out how function calls should be done (e.g. argument unpacking/pattern patching) :/
<manveru> erlang pattern matching is the part i like most about erlang syntax :)
<manveru> or hate least, dunno
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<banisterfiend> charliesome: so, will you reconstruct the backtrace from the bindings?
<banisterfiend> i also expose frame_type which is a little bit usful
<charliesome> banisterfiend: i remembered why i didn't do that in the first place
<banisterfiend> useful
<charliesome> i need to get the current line
<charliesome> or the line where the exception was thrown
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<banisterfiend> charliesome: how does that prevent you from doing that?
<charliesome> __LINE__ is always 1 when i eval it in the binding
<banisterfiend> binding.eval("__LINE__")
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<banisterfiend> shouldn't be
<banisterfiend> i'll have a play brb
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<banisterfiend> charliesome: it's not 1 for me
<charliesome> strange
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<judofyr> manveru: well, I'm not sure if I can actually support proper pattern matching. pattern matching sort-of implies that you can extract values, and I want all pattern-matching capabilities to be defined in the language itself.
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<darix> manveru: threadedsafe php ... that would be too awesome ... then you wouldnt be stuck with prefork apache anymore
<judofyr> manveru: i.e. I don't want to support pattern matching for just core types; I want to make it available for all types
<banisterfiend> which has always worked for us in pry since the early versions :)
<banisterfiend> charliesome: evalling __LINE__ In the binding is how we get the 'whereami' header: From: /Users/johnmair/ruby/pry/jo.rb @ line 12 Object#loi:
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<judofyr> banisterfiend: jo.rb?
<charliesome> ooh i know what happened
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<charliesome> i must've tried __LINE__ when using the pry backend for the repl
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<banisterfiend> judofyr: jo on rails: http://cl.ly/image/421T0q0u3Y3h
<yorickpeterse> DHH in his later years
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<manveru> darix: actually people use it for parallel processing, totally separate from web stuff, just because it's the only thing they know :(
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<charliesome> i used it to do some offline processing at work once
<charliesome> only because i needed to call into wordpress functions
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<banisterfiend> charliesome: were you able to repro. the symbol lookup errors?
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<charliesome> banisterfiend: tried on 1.9.2-p320, 1.9.3-p194, 1.9.3-p286 and 1.9.3-p327
<charliesome> works
<charliesome> i'll try 1.9.3-p0
<banisterfiend> charliesome: well it works for you on one that failed for the other guy
<banisterfiend> so,there's something weird happening
<charliesome> hm
<charliesome> well he's on os x
<charliesome> llvm-gcc is notorious for breaking ruby in subtle ways
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<banisterfiend> charliesome: a little bit cheeky :P http://www.ruby-forum.com/topic/4408968
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<charliesome> hehe
<banisterfiend> i wonder if it's as easy as that
<banisterfiend> maybe it is, but i always assumed you had to do something pretty major, or demonstrate you've grok'd the internals before they'd give you a commit bit
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<charliesome> the internals are whack
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<banisterfiend> yeah, which is why (IMO) you have to understand them before oyu get a commit bit ;) or you could mess something up..
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<charliesome> i know a little bit about the vm internals, but there's plenty code in ruby that doesn't have anything to do with the vm internals
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<banisterfiend> sure, in which case any half-decent C programmer could ask for a commit bit, but i'm not sure it works like that (i'll guess we'll see)
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<charliesome> night
<judofyr> charliesome: maybe you should write what you intend to do?
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<andrewvos> revert all refinements commits
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<ddd> is charlie fairly well known? wonder if matz knows of him, did some background review of both the patches he's submitted/had accepted, and other works he's done and thats why he's being so easy about it. Also, Matz is marked as a guest, so I wonder if thats really him.
<ddd> Posted by Yukihiro Matsumoto (Guest)
<banisterfiend> robably just no one had the balls to directly ask for commit bit like that before :)
<banisterfiend> probably*
<banisterfiend> congrats to him
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<ddd> hehe true. there is always that :)
<judofyr> ddd: I think it means he's a guest at ruby-forum
<injekt> yeah
<judofyr> seems legit here
<ddd> i'll be content for quite some time with working on docs. Already got plans for after christmas to get rolling on that.
<injekt> it's him, though
<ddd> judofyr: ahh yeah, didn't think of that
<ddd> injekt: cool :)
<manveru> it's matz@ruby.or.jp :)
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<manveru> guess i'm the only one still signed up on all the mailing lists
<ddd> that works. just seemed a little iffy until judofyr's comment which makes complete sense
<judofyr> manveru: hm? I subscribe to ruby-core (and ruby-talk, although I never really read it)
<ddd> hehe, dude there's so many MLs for all the things I have my hands in. I'm not signed up on them all. I am on the google group though
<manveru> judofyr: that makes two of us then
<manveru> i just can't stand the google groups interface
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<judofyr> I'm happy as long as this label stays empty: http://cl.ly/image/033Y200z3T0S
<manveru> it's such a pig, it must be gwt or worse
<manveru> lol
<manveru> i just have those moved to trash by a filter
<injekt> haha
<injekt> me too, does he still post?
<judofyr> haven't seen him in a while
<ddd> manveru: yeah have you noticed the GG interface has just gone from bad to worse? even their new changes. those are what.. a month or so old?
<manveru> yes
<manveru> now i have to reload whenever the screen size changes
<chris2> gg has been getting worse since ever
<ddd> the api.rubyonrails.org site makes me have to do that.
<chris2> and its the only reasonably complete usenet archive with public access :(
<ddd> chris2: yeah :/
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<chris2> i just wish they donated a dump to archive.org
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<ddd> am I bad person for not knowing about archive.org?
<chris2> oO
<ddd> honestly didn't know about it
<chris2> its awesome :)
<ddd> just signed up :)
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<chris2> you can use most stuff without restriction
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<chris2> i recommend the wayback bookmarklet
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<ddd> nice
<judofyr> I found why's foxes here the other day: http://www.flickr.com/photos/judofyr/8263897448/in/photostream
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<judofyr> fox*
<burgestrand> Can’t see it. :(
* burgestrand twists eyes
<burgestrand> White leaf.
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<judofyr> bad angle :(
<ddd> judofyr: what camera do you use btw?
<judofyr> ddd: Panasonic GX1
<judofyr> burgestrand: but the leaf had two holes (eyes) and ears :)
<ddd> my fiancee and I are looking for a decent one, but want to talk with folks either of us actually talk to about what they have and their likes/dislikes on what they have. we don't trust the web based reviews.
<burgestrand> judofyr: :3
<judofyr> ddd: well, GX1 is a Micro-Four Thirds camera. so it's not a DSLR.
<judofyr> but you can change lenses
<judofyr> and it's pretty decent :)
<judofyr> although it's no longer the best M43 camera
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<ddd> digging around google and camera sites for more info. thanks
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<judofyr> ddd: you won't get a best pictures with a M43-camera but (1) it's way better than compact cameras (2) you can still change lenses, which often gives the best improvements and (3) it's way smaller than a DSLR: http://brooksreview.net/2012/03/gx1/
<judofyr> "The GX1 is basically the 11” MacBook Air to the 15” MacBook Pro of my Canon 5D. " <- actually a good comparison :)
<zzak> judofyr: looks a lot like vermont, especially that lake
<ddd> haha nice. I've a 15" :) didn't like the MBA myself. I'll have to look into more.
<banisterfiend> judofyr: what is your primary comp? mba?
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<judofyr> ddd: I'm very satisfied with my GX1. I have the 20mm pancake lens (same as the guy in the review) and it's really nice to have a small and compact camera. I used it on InterRail in Eastern Europe this summer, and it's very nice to be able to just grab the camera (without a bag)
<judofyr> banisterfiend: 15" MBP
<judofyr> zzak: heh, they're not from the same place ;)
<judofyr> zzak: and only the first is from Norway
<judofyr> s/nice//
<judofyr> (I'll have to stop over-doing the niceness)
<judofyr> zzak: there's a bunch of pictures from all over Europe there, but the last ones are from Norway
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<judofyr> zzak: so, when are you coming to Norway?
<banisterfiend> judofyr: you dont find that a pain to lug around?
<judofyr> banisterfiend: nah, I mostly only code at home and work
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<zzak> judofyr: where was the lake?
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<zzak> wow, lots of lakes in the area, you're lucky
<judofyr> no lakes in your area?
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<zzak> judofyr: i would to visit norway honestly
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<judofyr> zzak: I guess there's more interesting places than Oslo though (mountains, fjords, etc.)
<zzak> yes, we have a few, they are my favorite part of summer
<zzak> for sure
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<wallmani> that is awesome 0.o
<judofyr> wallmani: Kjerragbolten is pretty cool: http://www.norsknatur.no/boker/baksyv/images/lysefjord_1.jpg (random Google image search)
<wallmani> 48 hours
<wallmani> or whatever that movie is
<judofyr> haven't seen it
* wallmani won't be far away from Scandinavia in 2 weeks
<judofyr> wallmani: it's cold here now though :/
<wallmani> i like cold
<wallmani> :D
<judofyr> around -15 C now
<wallmani> makes me not want to do anything other than sitting in front of my computer typing fast to not freeze
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<wallmani> wow, that is really cold 0.o
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<andrewvos> judofyr: That's a bit excessive
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<judofyr> excessive?
<judofyr> not a lot of snow though :(
<zzak> judofyr: very nice :)
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<judofyr> wallmani: where are you from?
<wallmani> judofyr: Lithuania
<zzak> i bet the beer there is awesome
<injekt> my manhood just climbed into my body at the thought of that
<judofyr> it's better with -15 C and dry climate than +3 C and rain everywhere :)
<wallmani> it does not rain that much in Lithuania :D
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<injekt> judofyr: thanks for describing britain
<judofyr> injekt: the winter in Oslo (centrum) is usually like that
<wallmani> judofyr: are you from norway?
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<judofyr> wallmani: yes
<wallmani> judofyr: i assume you are a programmer by profession, right?
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<judofyr> wallmani: correct
<wallmani> judofyr: do you know how successful EU citizens are at working in Norway in the programming field?
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<judofyr> wallmani: well, Rob here is from the Neatherlands (but he's a designer)
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<judofyr> wallmani: it's usually not a big problem because everyone speaks English
<wallmani> nice
<wallmani> i am from Lithuania, currently in the US
<wallmani> and i am wondering about where to go too next
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<judofyr> well, Norway is nice. although expensive, cold and dark in the winter
<wallmani> but people are well off in norway, right?
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<judofyr> yeah
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<wallmani> judofyr: what are the salaries for programmeea?
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<wallmani> *programmers
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<ddd> hehe RBX is dropping RVM support, claiming RVM fucks their build process, but gives no specifics on how. https://github.com/rubinius/rubinius/commit/faba2a8c453181d279c8e08a6b4436e6b512db25#commitcomment-2288924
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<judofyr> ddd: do you have a link to how RVM handles RBX?
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<banisterfiend> judofyr: do you do judo? is that where your nick comes from?
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<judofyr> banisterfiend: I did
<ddd> no, I can only provide a trace of rvm's install of RBX. *I* have not had any issues installing rbx, so not sure at all what brixen is specifically referring to
<judofyr> banisterfiend: some years ago. and yes.
<banisterfiend> judofyr: interesting, burgestrand does aikido, we should organize a fight between u two
<judofyr> banisterfiend: he'll probably win :)
<banisterfiend> u only live a few hour away from eachther too
<banisterfiend> hehe
<burgestrand> Aikido was just a few months, now it’s taido :p
<burgestrand> Judo is fun!
<banisterfiend> burgestrand: what' the diff b/w taido and aikido? (never heard of taido)
<banisterfiend> is that like taebo ?
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<burgestrand> banisterfiend: taido is like acrobatic karate
<banisterfiend> haha cool
<judofyr> burgestrand: where are you located?
<burgestrand> banisterfiend: aikido is like… old person judo
<burgestrand> judofyr: gothenburg
<judofyr> ah
* firefux is practicing Hapkido
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<judofyr> damn netsplits
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<yorickpeterse> Everybody knows the only real men's sport is beer lifting
<yorickpeterse> mens sport, w/e
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<ddd> heh
<banisterfiend> firefux: i could do a bit of hapkido..scorpion used that marital art in mortal kombat deadly alliance ;)
<yorickpeterse> yeah banisterfiend knows karate, be careful
<yorickpeterse> he might slap your bindings
<judofyr> ddd: does your name mean "ddd-driven development"?
<judofyr> nickname*
<ddd> david deryl downey == ddd
<bougyman> so yes, it does.
<bougyman> ddd does ddd-driven development
<ddd> I don't use my first name, I use my middle.
<ddd> bougyman: hehe yes, yes i do :)
<judofyr> bougyman: oh, so that's the meaning? "Ddd Does Ddd-driven development"?
<ddd> and sometimes, even Desperation Driven Development :)
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<bougyman> judofyr: correct.
<ddd> haha
<judofyr> this recursion is complicated
<ddd> nested centers :)
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<viking> trying to emit custom yaml with psych using encode_with. however, setting coder.map to a hash doesn't behave the same way as "some_hash.to_yaml" would
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<sent-hil> what's diff. between instance_exec and instance_eval
<banisterfiend> sent-hil: instance_exec takes a parameter
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<sent-hil> banisterfiend: can you explain?
<banisterfiend> sent-hil: obj.instance_exec(1, 2) { |x, y| puts x; puts y }
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<banisterfiend> sent-hil: vs: obj.instance_eval { }
<sent-hil> banisterfiend: ah cool, thx
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<freedrull> gah, every week or so a bunch of jobs get stuck in my resque queue. so hard to debug ><
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<yorickpeterse> Vague question of the day: if you were to go to a talk about Ruby's more low level parts (think parsing, how the language works, that kind of stuff), what specifically would you be interested in?
<yorickpeterse> I could talk about parsing for 30 minutes but that would probably be boring as fuck
<bluepojo> I'd go to a talk on how C extensions work.
<banisterfiend> yorickpeterse: read "ruby under microscope"
<bluepojo> cause it's something I don't know
<banisterfiend> yorickpeterse: it has a great chapter on that
<banisterfiend> yorickpeterse: at least see what he's done there, and get some ideas, i think it's brilliant
<yorickpeterse> banisterfiend: link plox
<banisterfiend> yorickpeterse: you gotta buy it ;)
<yorickpeterse> I think I saw it but didn't bother to click
<yorickpeterse> oh
<yorickpeterse> meh, fuck that
<banisterfiend> yorickpeterse: a few months ago i might have given u it..but..i want to encourage him to write a part 2, so i think it's better if you buy it, it's really well worth it.
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<banisterfiend> yorickpeterse: nah if anyone deserves $ for an e-book it's this guy, he took 6 months off to write it, and it's really brilliant, even covers jruby and rbx, and goes into a lot of depth
<yorickpeterse> hmm
<banisterfiend> it's not another ruby e-book puff/pride project
<yorickpeterse> Send me a link, I'll probably buy it
<ryanf> banisterfiend: example? :)
<yorickpeterse> if it's not some epress-whatever crap I'm all for it
<ryanf> oh, forgot this was #ruby-lang instead of #pry, no drama pls
<yorickpeterse> But hm, C extensions is an option
<yorickpeterse> It has been a while but that shouldn't be a huge issue
<ryanf> btw why did they even bother having instance_exec instead of just letting you pass params to instance_eval?
<ryanf> isn't the only case where instance_eval normally takes params the string case, in which case there's no block?
<ryanf> so it seems like it'd be unambiguous
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<injekt> pretty much
<banisterfiend> ryanf: instnace_eval does take an argument actually, it yields self
<banisterfiend> ryanf: but i dont think anyone ever uses it
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<banisterfiend> ryanf: i think the purpose of yielding self is to deal with nested instance_evals or something
<yorickpeterse> thnx
<yorickpeterse> banisterfiend: is there an actual book of this thing as well?
<banisterfiend> yorickpeterse: i dont know, probably not..
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<injekt> yorickpeterse: no
<yorickpeterse> hmpf
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<yorickpeterse> I can't really focus on reading on my laptop so I prefer books for these kind of things
<banisterfiend> yorickpeterse: but he has epub/mobi/pdf versions so it's fine for a kindle or something
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<banisterfiend> yorickpeterse: get a tablet :) i just have one for reading ebooks
<yorickpeterse> I have a tablet, I have no idea what to do with it
<yorickpeterse> It has been collecting dust for over a year now
<banisterfiend> what kind of tablet do u have?
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<yorickpeterse> Asus transformer something
<banisterfiend> cool
<injekt> paperweight?
<yorickpeterse> I carry my laptop with me at almost all times so there's really no point in carrying it with me as well
<yorickpeterse> injekt: It doesn't weight that much but it's not paperweight either
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<tockitj_> how to jump to next method definition in vim ? (:
<yorickpeterse> tockitj_: :q
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<yorickpeterse> Hm, a talk on C extensions or Pry. Hmm..
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<yorickpeterse> what the hell
<banisterfiend> yorickpeterse: i thought u were going to talk about rlinter?
<banisterfiend> yorickpeterse: you could explain different ways you can use Ripper or something
<yorickpeterse> Well the thing is that in the current state there's not a whole lot to talk about
<yorickpeterse> and I have my doubts about giving a 30 minute talk about Ripper being interesting enough
<yorickpeterse> injekt: great, now I have to visit every gist in order to delete them
<yorickpeterse> what the hell, where's the delete link
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<injekt> heh
<yorickpeterse> Right, Gists -> Gist #XXX -> edit -> delete
<yorickpeterse> who the fuck came up with that
<injekt> I thought you had to do that anyway
<yorickpeterse> Nope, you just had to view it
<yorickpeterse> not actually edit it
<injekt> ah
<injekt> yeah
<injekt> I dont think I've ever deleted a gist
<rue> I’ve deleted a few of yours
<injekt> did you have to click edit first to delete it
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<yorickpeterse> I clean them up regulary
<injekt> why?
<injekt> helping to clean up github? :D
<yorickpeterse> I prefer to use Gist for more long term pasties
<yorickpeterse> the rest goes on pastebin
<injekt> yuck pastebin
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<rhizmoe> what's a good way to handle a hierarchy with occasional empty nodes? this is for a tournament bracket with "bye" rounds
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<rhizmoe> kind of a data structure question, i guess
<Phrogz> `nil` entries as children?
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<rhizmoe> i was thinking that. currently it's a tree of user objects with a dummy "bye" user, but i'd like to move that out.
<yorickpeterse> rhizmoe: show an example of the SAT
<yorickpeterse> * AST
<rhizmoe> i guess nil detection as the rounds progress ca
<yorickpeterse> Generally I'm against nil values
<rhizmoe> AST?
<yorickpeterse> errr, hierarchy
<yorickpeterse> I'd probably go for nodes with empty values instead of nil
<rhizmoe> it's gonna take a minute, i'm currently re-aquainting myself with the method i used two years ago :)
<yorickpeterse> heh
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<injekt> NilNode? :)
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<rhizmoe> yorickpeterse: https://gist.github.com/4262535
<yorickpeterse> dat braces
<rhizmoe> it's two years old, cut me some slack :)
<yorickpeterse> So this code in some case returns nil values?
<rhizmoe> no, the bye_guy is an actual user object i'm thinking of replacing
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<yorickpeterse> Well, don't replace it with nil unless some other code doesn't rely on it
<yorickpeterse> I personally don't like nil values in my hierarchies/ASTs and the likes
<injekt> that's a different kind of ruby
<rhizmoe> yes, i'm implementing tests in parallel. i should probably choose one or the other so i'm not jumping canoes all the time
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* Phrogz has finally just discovered 2.0.0 features. Crikey, and mostly yum! Now we can all enjoy chainsaw infanticide safely in the luxury of our own homes. Seriously, joy. (And keyword arguments: yum)
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<yorickpeterse> fun fact: refinements might not make it, at least not as they are currently available
<drbrain> yorickpeterse: I think they've been pretty well nailed down now
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<yorickpeterse> I kinda lost track of the discussion at some point
<yorickpeterse> It's hard keeping up with ruby-core at times
<drbrain> especially refinements
<yorickpeterse> haha yeah, there are a lot of replies
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<Phrogz> Let me be lazy and summarize for me: what's the leading candidate argument for not including them? Perf?
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<injekt> Phrogz: lack of a defined spec?
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<injekt> people had issues because there were lots of complications and pitfalls to discuss before just throwing them in
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<Phrogz> Since when lack of an official spec ever stopped the Ruby community before? :p
<yorickpeterse> Phrogz: they were a bitch to implement right
<Phrogz> MRI is the spec! :)
<yorickpeterse> and they basically killed any form of method lookup caching
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<yorickpeterse> and the use cases were not entirely clear
<whitequark> it's not the spec as in "official document", it's the spec as in "how am I supposed to use that stuff"
<yorickpeterse> if MRI is the spec then it's a rather shady spec
<Phrogz> yorickpeterse: You are writing in the past tense, reinforcing your previous statement that you thought them dead. Did I misinterpret drbrain's comment? I thought he was saying that they were going to make it.
<TTilus> jruby folks pointed out quite a few serious issues with complexity and perf
<injekt> Phrogz: there has been a ruby implementors meeting to discuss
<yorickpeterse> They are, but they've been changed quite a lot since the initial idea of matz
<Phrogz> Thanks for feeding me, all. :)
<TTilus> ive tried to figure out what would i use the refinements for
<z3r00ld> hi, i am trying to execute sudo commands using net-ssh channel, but it seems no easy task to play around the output, i am just wondering if there is another gem/library available which execute sudo commands directly
<TTilus> and havent really been able to come up with a compelling usecase
<drbrain> Phrogz: you have to require 'refinement' to use them, the scope is vastly reduced from three months ago and what you can do with them is different from three months ago
<Phrogz> TTilus: Would you not just use them to better effect whenever you were tempted to monkeypatch instead? Or did/do you generally resist such urgest?
<TTilus> maybe its just me
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<injekt> drbrain: it's not file scoped, right? :)
<Phrogz> drbrain: Interesting. I'll not get my hopes so high, then, and keep an eye on the future.
<drbrain> injekt: I haven't been following the details closely
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<TTilus> Phrogz: maybe its my deep etched resistance to monkeypatching
<yorickpeterse> I believe it has been
<injekt> yeah I remember it being mentioned
<TTilus> Phrogz: im just seeing refinements as a wrong thing done better
<TTilus> Phrogz: a bit like svn is to cvs
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<injekt> but monkey patching is fun!
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<TTilus> injekt: i dont argue against =D
<Phrogz> Interesting. I personally see them (as described in what summaries I've just read) as a nice OOP-style scoping of methods done better/safer.
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* Phrogz is a monkeypatching fool. Possible emphasis on the fool part.
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<injekt> I probably wont use them
<Phrogz> Since I feel guilty when using monkeypatching, I feel like I'd use them to feel warmer and fuzzier about writing the same sort of code.
<injekt> That's my worry
<yorickpeterse> class Object; def ==(other); [true, false].sample; end; end; # best patch ever
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<whitequark> yorickpeterse: bonus points for overriding !
<Phrogz> I thought we were talking about monkeypatching, not psychotic pathological patching.
<TTilus> there sure is a wide spectrum of shades of patching here ;)
<yorickpeterse> wait, we can do better
<injekt> class Object; def self.inherited(klass); exit; end; end
<yorickpeterse> I was thinking of also removing #== from all existing constants
<yorickpeterse> but undef isn't a method :/
<yorickpeterse> oh oh!
<yorickpeterse> instance_eval
<TTilus> damn you
<injekt> that could take OOP out of the equation :D
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<TTilus> then they would rebuild oop using re-opening classes and alias method chaining or redefine_method kinda things or whatnot
<injekt> jesus
<injekt> that's scary
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<drbrain> injekt: exit! is better
<injekt> drbrain: ah true
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<whitequark> injekt: exit? hah. children's toys
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<whitequark> use ffi to bind to libruby and randomly change the actual superclass
<whitequark> that's good.
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<drbrain> whitequark: or just write a NUL to a random object in the heap
<injekt> :D
<whitequark> drbrain: that's more obvious and could be caught by e.g. valgrind.
<drbrain> I think changing the superclass would crash too soon
<whitequark> why would it?
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<drbrain> if you don't have enough ruby classes you might blow up due to a RTYPE check
<yorickpeterse> hnnnggg so close
<whitequark> well yeah, it's meant to verify the correctness prior to changing :)
<whitequark> not fun otherwise
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<whitequark> also could do this: fork, ptrace the parent and hook the reading of superclass field in the RClass structure
<whitequark> then substitute random valid values
<whitequark> even better: write a linux kernel rootkit to help hiding all of the above and install it automatically
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<whitequark> how much do I score on the evilness scale? :)
* Phrogz feels ill for standing by while this discussion takes place.
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<yorickpeterse> god damn it, my override doesn't seem to work
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<yorickpeterse> I probably shouldn't write code at 23:30 when I'm supposed to study Korean
<yorickpeterse> ha ha! Now it does
<yorickpeterse> http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=ELTCDuce isn't she wonderful?
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<Phrogz> For the YOLO alone, yes.
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<whitequark> yorickpeterse: ObjectSpace.each_object(Module)
<whitequark> even works on jruby
<yorickpeterse> hmm
<whitequark> ha, just got an excellent idea
<yorickpeterse> oh dear
<whitequark> corewars in ruby!
<yorickpeterse> corewars?
<whitequark> threads compete to override most of the interesting methods while trying to avoid blasting up on others' overrides
<whitequark> the turns are limited in time expressed in YARV instructions
<yorickpeterse> haha
<yorickpeterse> it's russian roulette with threads and ruby
<yorickpeterse> I should somehow gain commit access to active support and just put this code in it
<yorickpeterse> SHIP IT!
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<whitequark> you only ship once
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<pangel> I want to pretty-print bytes. What would be a good Unicode range to which I could map the character codes > ASCII but < 256 ?
<whitequark> pangel: \xNN
<pangel> whitequark: this does *not* look good :)
<pangel> (I assume you're telling me to actually print \xff, for instance. Otherwise I misunderstood)
<foucist> how about convert the bytes to double wide and then experiment with toggling the bits and seeing which range is the prettiest
<foucist> toggle one bit at a time for each possible bit
<foucist> for all the 0s that get added on
<foucist> just a thought
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<foucist> "ASCII does not explicitly define what values 128-255 map to" hmm
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<workmad3> pangel: I think whitequark is meaning that you should map the characters to the corresponding unicode code-point, so that byte 129 gets mapped to the unicode code-point 129, etc.
<pangel> workmad3: yes, but for instance 00 to 20, and 7F to 9F are control characters,
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<whitequark> pangel: I meant that it doesn't really make sense to not escape those characters
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<whitequark> so yes, I am telling you to print escape sequences
<whitequark> ['\', 'x', 'f', 'f'].join.
<havenn> Interesting! Matz just tweeted about mruby-to-C compiler: https://github.com/mrbrdo/mruby_cc
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<pangel> whitequark: This is the default, not-pretty solution :)
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<whitequark> havenn: it doesn't make sense.
<whitequark> as the whole mruby thing basically does not
<whitequark> you could as well just write C. and in fact you will at some point just write C because ruby stdlib doesn't have any performance-optimized primitives
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* whitequark shrugs
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<whitequark> pangel: I doubt there is a better solution, but let's try anyway
<whitequark> what task are you trying to accomplish by pretty-printing those bytes?
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<pangel> whitequark: Get a fixed-length representation of 160 bit number that's not 160 characters long
<whitequark> pangel: that's simple then. you don't have to stick to bytes.
<whitequark> use, for example, base64.
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<whitequark> it has constant length for constant number of bits and is 7-bit clear
<whitequark> or base85 if you need shorter
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<pangel> whitequark: much better! thank you.
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