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<
zenspider >
imperator: is there anything I can add to clarify for someone who doesn't breathe lexers/parsers but maybe wants to get into it?
00:04
<
zenspider >
... excluding adding a whole section on formal language theory... that is.
00:05
<
zenspider >
tho I suppose I could link off to resources...
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<
chris2 >
zenspider: ... if they are constants
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<
chris2 >
makes them look like real ones
00:18
<
chris2 >
zenspider: and note that this is not like lex in that longest match doesnt win, but first match does
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<
imperator >
zenspider, probably just link off to resources
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<
zenspider >
chris2: good point about first vs longest... I'll add that
00:45
<
zenspider >
(aside: has anyone played shadowrun returns yet?)
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<
imperator >
rpg? card game? computer game?
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<
zenspider >
imperator: computer game based on the old rpg
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03:02
<
brownies >
let's talk about doing math in ruby.
03:02
<
brownies >
just how bad of an idea is it?
03:03
<
brownies >
if i were to, say, multiply some things and then add some things and then square root it all, about 5000 times, would that do anything crazy like run out of memory?
03:03
<
imperator >
what happened when you tried?
03:03
<
brownies >
in a little loop
03:03
<
brownies >
eh... it's all very suspicious
03:03
<
imperator >
what is?
03:03
<
brownies >
i'm running a Rails migration that adds a column and then sets its value by doing a fancy statistical calculation
03:03
<
brownies >
so i'm looping through about 5000 rows to individually calculate their values and set them
03:04
<
brownies >
and the migration gets killed by vagrant after about a thousand
03:04
<
brownies >
so, vagrant issue? ruby issue? stupid bug in my code? i don't even know... i've never seen a ruby process just echo "Killed" and then stop
03:04
<
imperator >
that's a bit vague
03:04
<
brownies >
i don't even know where to begin
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03:05
<
imperator >
is there any kind of logging to indicate -why- it failed?
03:05
<
brownies >
well, i'm logging in the migration when it starts working on each row
03:06
<
imperator >
because it sounds like a db/code problem, not a ruby problem
03:06
<
brownies >
i'd agree with you, but it makes it a little further down the rows every time i run the migration... presumably because it doesn't recalculate for rows that already have it set?
03:06
<
imperator >
got a pastie of your migration?
03:06
<
brownies >
so it works through some rows, starts slowing down (which is weird!) and then eventually just the process is killed, somehow
03:07
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03:07
<
brownies >
hm... let me see if i can clean it up
03:07
<
imperator >
keep in mind that this isn't a rails channel
03:07
<
brownies >
yeah, i wandered over here because i suspected it was an issue with doing math in Ruby
03:07
<
imperator >
i very much doubt it
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<
brownies >
cleaned up some code and added a ton of logging and made some speed optimizations... giving it one more try
03:13
* brownies
headdesk
03:13
<
brownies >
that fixed it
03:13
<
brownies >
i barely know why.
03:13
<
brownies >
i changed all of my #update_attribute calls to be #update_column calls so that callbacks would be skipped... and that did it.
03:13
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03:14
* brownies
still suspects it was some kind of memory issue
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03:17
<
imperator >
if it was, it was a rails issue
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* imperator
hits the hay
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07:44
<
charliesome >
puma, the great threaded ruby web server
07:44
<
charliesome >
127.127.0.0.1 - - [27/Sep/2013 17:40:36] "GET / HTTP/1.0" 200 - 1.0016
07:44
<
charliesome >
0.0.1 - - [27/Sep/2013 17:40:36] "GET / HTTP/1.0" 200 - 1.0021
07:45
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07:54
<
yorickpeterse >
morning
07:55
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07:57
<
yorickpeterse >
charliesome: wat
07:57
<
charliesome >
lol at the logging breaking
07:58
<
yorickpeterse >
haven't experienced that yet with our Puma app
07:58
<
yorickpeterse >
instead it ended up in some reactor crash loop and kept spamming the logs
07:58
<
yorickpeterse >
though that was fixed at some point luckily
08:13
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08:14
<
tbuehlmann >
I switched back to thin for development, puma had weird thread issues for me where I needed to restart the server sometimes
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08:36
<
charliesome >
webrick all tha way
08:37
<
maloik >
any of you use puma in production ?
08:38
* yorickpeterse
raises hand
08:38
<
yorickpeterse >
granted it's a prototype app
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08:40
<
charliesome >
despite my complaining, puma does look pretty nice
08:41
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08:41
<
charliesome >
it's about time we had a ruby web server that acknowledged that it's not 2005 anymore and we're not stuck with 1.8's green threads
08:42
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08:46
<
maloik >
I've got it on a little vds of my own but I don't even have apps on it yet
08:46
<
yorickpeterse >
charliesome: nah, except we're now stuck with a GIL and somewhat-ok threads (at least in MRI)
08:47
<
charliesome >
the GIL is not /that/ bad
08:47
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08:47
<
charliesome >
you need need give or take N workers on a server with N cores
08:48
<
yorickpeterse >
it's fucking dumb, don't lie to yourself
08:48
<
yorickpeterse >
and processes don't scale
08:48
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08:48
<
yorickpeterse >
"herp derp memory cheap"
08:48
<
ljarvis >
u dont scale
08:48
<
yorickpeterse >
ljarvis: ur mum m8
08:48
<
charliesome >
but in the broad scheme of things, the gil is not really all that bad
08:48
<
ljarvis >
yorickpeterse: ill smash ya
08:49
<
yorickpeterse >
charliesome: are you doing crack?
08:49
<
yorickpeterse >
I mean in theory the idea behind a GIL makes sense, but I'd rather have a proper API so you don't need one in the first place
08:49
<
ljarvis >
with yorickpeterse's mother?
08:49
<
yorickpeterse >
ljarvis: fuck off
08:50
<
charliesome >
yorickpeterse: yes it would be really nice to have no GIL in MRI
08:50
<
yorickpeterse >
it would be just, like, jruby/rbx!
08:50
* yorickpeterse
runs
08:51
<
charliesome >
but I still maintain that it's not that bad, and threads in MRI are still useful today even with a GIL
08:51
<
yorickpeterse >
They are up to a certain level
08:51
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08:51
<
charliesome >
anyway brb
08:51
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08:52
<
andrewvos >
what are people whining about today?
08:52
<
yorickpeterse >
I think charlie is spending too much time in the MRI codebase
08:52
<
yorickpeterse >
we're losing him!
08:53
<
andrewvos >
too much time? > 0
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08:53
<
andrewvos >
My approach to the MRI codebase is to pretend it doesn't exist.
08:54
<
ljarvis >
the mri codebase still beats a hell of a lot of other languages
08:54
<
ljarvis >
well, some other languages
08:54
<
yorickpeterse >
Python's code didn't look that bad
08:54
<
ljarvis >
ok like a couple
08:54
<
yorickpeterse >
I mean sure, it's better than PHP
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10:23
* yorickpeterse
is doing some hardcore maths here
10:23
<
yorickpeterse >
calculating the total amount of money we'd have to pay for clearing an SQS queue of size X using spot instances
10:23
<
yorickpeterse >
all based on pretty raw numbers
10:23
<
yorickpeterse >
YAY
10:24
<
yorickpeterse >
it's actually pretty interesting
10:24
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10:39
<
yorickpeterse >
Hm, 21 cents to clear around a million items in 3,5 days
10:39
<
yorickpeterse >
that's less than expected
10:40
<
canton7 >
quite often I find that larger instances are cheaper than smaller ones on the spot market
10:40
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10:41
<
yorickpeterse >
I'm pretty sure this is the exact opposite
10:41
<
yorickpeterse >
errr wait, do you mean larger spot instances?
10:41
<
yorickpeterse >
or larger regular ones vs spot?
10:41
<
maloik >
what is spot? :o
10:41
<
canton7 >
all on the spot, larger ones are are sometimes cheaper than smaller ones
10:41
<
canton7 >
well, quite often cheaper
10:42
<
yorickpeterse >
Hm, that's interesting
10:42
<
canton7 >
worth keeping an eye open for
10:42
<
yorickpeterse >
maloik: spot instances are instances you basically bid on using a price
10:42
<
yorickpeterse >
you only get them if the price is right (heh)
10:42
<
canton7 >
amazon's AWS stuff
10:42
<
maloik >
so... they sell the stuff that would otherwise be left unused ?
10:42
<
ljarvis >
yorickpeterse: you at bubble confi?
10:42
<
yorickpeterse >
ljarvis: no
10:42
<
yorickpeterse >
I'm at $WORK
10:43
<
yorickpeterse >
How so?
10:43
<
ljarvis >
you going to the gh drinkup?
10:43
<
yorickpeterse >
WAIT WAIT
10:43
<
yorickpeterse >
You in Amsterdam?
10:43
<
yorickpeterse >
And there's a drinkup?
10:43
<
yorickpeterse >
hmpf
10:43
<
ljarvis >
you should come to arrrcamp
10:43
<
maloik >
I second that motion
10:43
<
ljarvis >
so we can talk smack about each others mothers
10:44
<
ljarvis >
and other productive stuff
10:44
<
ljarvis >
like drink beer
10:44
<
yorickpeterse >
tbh I don't like 2 track confs
10:44
<
ljarvis >
2 track confs?
10:44
<
yorickpeterse >
yeah, two talks at the same time
10:45
<
maloik >
yorickpeterse: generally everything is split up between the more technical (often ruby) stuff and the more front-end or inspirational talks
10:45
<
yorickpeterse >
then again the idea of wearing a pirate hat is tempting
10:46
<
yorickpeterse >
Hm, I have to check how many holidays I have left since 2 weeks later there's also dotRB
10:46
<
maloik >
work won't let you go ? oO
10:47
<
maloik >
I mean fair enough if you don't get to attend ALL THE THINGS, but a couple a year is justified, no ?
10:47
<
yorickpeterse >
Sure they would, but it's a bit easier if I actually have holidays left
10:47
<
yorickpeterse >
otherwise I have to bring my recruiter hat and drag two devs back
10:47
<
maloik >
yea and then you wouldn't be able to wear a pirate hat :/
10:50
<
yorickpeterse >
well I could stack them
10:50
<
yorickpeterse >
Then I can go around saying I'm a pirate recruiter
10:50
<
maloik >
pirate recruiter or recruiter pirate ?
10:50
<
yorickpeterse >
both
10:50
<
yorickpeterse >
I mean it would be pretty badass to have an actual pirate write code
10:51
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10:52
<
maloik >
my headphones don't fit when I wear my hat :(
10:52
<
yorickpeterse >
get earbuds m7
10:53
<
yorickpeterse >
fuck
10:53
<
maloik >
and the leather doesn't breathe well so it kind of gets disgusting to wear it day in day out
10:53
<
maloik >
earbus? hell no
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10:58
<
yorickpeterse >
0.000023 cents per message for 7 instances, notbad.jpg
10:58
<
yorickpeterse >
and since it's dollars that basically means it's free
10:59
<
yorickpeterse >
ok now to make some food for 14 co-workers and fail miserably at it, brb
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11:35
<
ljarvis >
call for a pizza
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11:38
<
maloik >
calling? that requires speaking to a human being
11:38
<
maloik >
better order online
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11:40
<
ljarvis >
good point
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12:02
<
maloik >
rage,ArgumentError: invalid byte sequence in US-ASCII
12:03
<
maloik >
this error was the reason I reinstalled my mac (was overdue but still)
12:03
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12:03
<
maloik >
and now I'm getting it again, wtf
12:03
<
maloik >
colleagues arent
12:03
<
charliesome >
reinstalling os x to fix an encoding issue in ruby seems like swatting a fly with a ballistic missile
12:04
<
maloik >
except the fly survived
12:04
<
maloik >
so more like a cockroach
12:05
<
maloik >
but in all seriousness, wtf could be going on? I have both LANG and LC_ALL set to utf8, so does the server and so do my colleagues
12:05
<
maloik >
so what could I be missing ?
12:05
<
apeiros >
charliesome: aimed at another continent, too
12:05
<
charliesome >
maloik: where is the error popping up from?
12:06
<
maloik >
capistrano, in this case when installing haml (doubt that's relevant)
12:07
<
charliesome >
capistrano installing haml?
12:07
<
maloik >
capistrano running bundle
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12:09
<
maloik >
any ideas charliesome ?
12:10
<
charliesome >
no clue
12:12
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12:12
<
gnufied >
so, why is capistrano being run locally on osx?
12:13
<
gnufied >
I would check if declared environment variables are indeed picked
12:13
<
maloik >
what do you mean being run locally ?
12:14
<
gnufied >
the error is on server
12:14
<
gnufied >
it has nothing to do with local osx instal
12:14
<
maloik >
to which my colleagues can in fact deploy
12:14
<
maloik >
and we all connect via ssh to the same user
12:16
<
gnufied >
okay. so can you run random "echo $LANG"
12:16
<
gnufied >
from cap script
12:16
<
gnufied >
and echo $LC_ALL
12:16
<
gnufied >
before it reaches bundle install step
12:16
<
gnufied >
and see, if the value is indeed what you set it to be
12:17
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12:17
<
yorickpeterse >
well that worked out miles better than expected
12:18
<
maloik >
lang is utf8, lc all is empty (as it is when I ssh onto the server)... double checking with colleague now
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12:20
<
maloik >
he's got lc_all set as well, which is weird
12:20
<
maloik >
well its weird that mine is empty rather
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12:24
<
maloik >
gnufied: happen to know if they should be set in zshrc or a different file ?
12:25
<
maloik >
I vaguely remember there's a difference in login and user shells or something like that so perhaps I'm doing it in the wrong one and it's not being used in the ssh connection
12:25
<
gnufied >
set them in .bashrc
12:25
<
gnufied >
and .profile
12:26
<
gnufied >
or .bash_profile
12:26
<
gnufied >
unlikely that ssh connection will use zsh shell
12:26
<
gnufied >
unless that user you are connecting as , is configured to use zsh
12:27
<
maloik >
that's what I thought
12:28
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12:30
<
maloik >
neither seems to set them correctly, ugh
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12:35
<
maloik >
ugh so now they are all utf8 in my capistrano script and it's still not working
12:35
<
maloik >
what the fuck.
12:37
<
yorickpeterse >
lel Capistrano
12:37
<
yorickpeterse >
also, some distros set LC_* in /etc/locale.conf
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12:40
<
maloik >
nope that doesnt seem to be it either
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12:44
<
gnufied >
you will have to hire me for mode debugging that this. :-)
12:44
<
gnufied >
I am sure it is fixable though
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12:44
<
yorickpeterse >
that's what he said
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12:46
<
yorickpeterse >
oh jesus, whoever came up with #try needs to stop coding right now
12:46
<
yorickpeterse >
what is this, fucking PHP?
12:46
<
yorickpeterse >
if/else too mainstream? ugh
12:46
<
gnufied >
so try is supposed to be a maybe monad
12:46
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12:47
<
yorickpeterse >
THERE'S NO MAYBE IN COMPUTING
12:47
<
yorickpeterse >
TRUE OR FALSE, NOT "PERHAPS"
12:47
<
yorickpeterse >
I can already see this becoming a pattern: maybe-driven-development
12:47
<
yorickpeterse >
I guess I'm just not cool enough for it, I prefer an if/else
12:48
<
gnufied >
well tbh, andand is maybe monad. But i find underlying ideas to be similar.
12:49
<
gnufied >
and I like andand as l liked Option[] values in Scala
12:49
<
gnufied >
in scala option values meant, I had to never deal with null pointer exceptions
12:50
<
yorickpeterse >
ok so to clarify:
12:50
<
gnufied >
admiteddly try() is shallower cousin
12:50
<
yorickpeterse >
this is the kinda shit I hate: some_collection.where(:foo => Something.where(...).first.try(:id))
12:50
<
yorickpeterse >
there's no point in building useless objects when something in the very first step already yields nothing
12:51
<
yorickpeterse >
Though I firmly believe it's lazyness that drives this, the idea of "fuck this, less code YAY"
12:51
<
yorickpeterse >
"CODE IS A CODE SMELL" etc
12:51
<
yorickpeterse >
now back to actual coding
12:51
<
gnufied >
that code is too terse for its own good
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13:32
<
maloik >
ugh, found a solution at last
13:32
<
maloik >
forced capistrano to use utf8 before each command
13:32
<
maloik >
makes no sense that my colleagues could deploy just fine but whatever
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<
yorickpeterse >
ljarvis: I'll pass on arrrcamp, forgot that's already next week
17:56
<
yorickpeterse >
and I have a lot of stuff to do next week
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<
zenspider >
banisterfiend: reading comments again? that'll drive you mad
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