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<avdi>
Yeah I have all kinds of fun with enumerators on the show
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<thomaslnx>
hi guys. Where can i get some help about ruby for beginners, besides from website?
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<zenspider>
here is good
<pipework>
there is good too
<thomaslnx>
i already have knowledge about structured languages programming, like c, but i'm punch on the face about oo programming. Any source to help?
<havenwood>
existensil: It's just becoming leaner by five characters.
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<existensil>
and adding about 800 nicks
<apeiros>
closer to 600, due to overlap
<existensil>
ah, right
<existensil>
I'm not going to wait to be shown the door. I know when I'm not welcome.
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<KKKLANSMAN>
the ruby community is not a welcoming one... it's a prejudiced, racist, and intolerant one
<KKKLANSMAN>
people in the ruby community are very closed minded
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<bnagy>
wait wat?
<bnagy>
merging with #ruby?
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<havenwood>
bnagy: It took a few years but yup, merging.
<pipework>
It's actually happening, or no?
<havenwood>
pipework: Actually for really real.
<pipework>
havenwood: You do know it's not April 1st, right?
* havenwood
checks
<pipework>
Don't mess with me, man. I'm rather under the weather.
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<bnagy>
wow
<havenwood>
pipework: Get better! But yeah, for real.
<bnagy>
I actually gave up #ruby and came here for better SNR :<
<pipework>
havenwood: Oh huh. I can't wait to see what the access list is going to have.
<havenwood>
bnagy: There's a #ruby-pro with very high signal-to-noise ratio.
<bnagy>
is it webby?
<havenwood>
bnagy: And #ruby-community with... community stuff.
<havenwood>
bnagy: Great folk but not a ton of talk, but that might change.. dunno.
<bnagy>
hand wringing about diversity and codes of conduct and such?
<havenwood>
bnagy: mostly trying to figure out how to help newcomers
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<havenwood>
bnagy: err, i meant that about #ruby-community, but yeah just request voice on #ruby-pro since it's very little noise
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<havenwood>
silent even
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<havenwood>
bnagy: maybe there'll end up being an offtopic channel, dunno
<bnagy>
how would they tell? ;)
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<zenspider>
thomaslnx: learning OO (properly/thoroughly) isn't really (good) book material. I have found the best learning comes from taking an "object walk" with someone and discussing those things you see... what their attributes might be... what their actions might be... how they interact and couple with each other. etc.
<zenspider>
bnagy: yes. we're merging the channels and setting up #ruby-lang as a redirect to #ruby
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<zenspider>
in the hopes that it'll reduce confusion
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<zenspider>
bnagy: there's active moderation on both channels now, so the SNR should be improved
<zenspider>
I've been camping in both for a couple months now and it's changed a lot
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<bnagy>
I was in #ruby for years but eventually the homework-help and webbies got too annoying
<bnagy>
plus I kind of stopped writing ruby as a first language
<womble>
/join #ruby-no-homework-or-webbies
<bnagy>
that used to be here :<
<havenwood>
bnagy: i've seen plenty of homework here :P
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<bnagy>
fair, but nowhere near as much
<zenspider>
I might encourage there to be a #ruby-chat or #ruby-offtopic when things get too noisy
<bnagy>
registration used to cull 95% of it
<bnagy>
aint nobody got time for that! There's cheating to be done!
<zenspider>
I don't mind homework, as long as they're up front about it and are actually putting in effort and just need some direction
<bnagy>
ditto
<bnagy>
then again the same probably applies to any question
<zenspider>
pretty much.
<zenspider>
I don't mind the "where do I start I'm at zero" q's either
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<zenspider>
if they're really at zero and not just hoping you'll give them a solution
<bnagy>
related: is there anything worth recommending for "I am an experienced programmer, I need to grok ruby"?
<bnagy>
apart from read quickref then read the docs for Enumerable
<zenspider>
hah. that's the usual thing I push. depends on their background
<bnagy>
all the old stuff is too 'learn to program while using crap ruby idiom' for my taste
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<pipework>
How about #ruby-for-hipsters?
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<duderonomy>
bnagy: See the first few chapters of Ruby Metaprogramming 2nd ed.
<pipework>
Mmmmm.
<duderonomy>
Talks about the object model more than introductory books, I guess
<pipework>
^
<pipework>
It's the first book I suggest to people who have already learned at least one programming language.
<pipework>
Then the black book.
<duderonomy>
which is black book? Elegant ruby or another? Thx btw.
<duderonomy>
Ahh.. just googled... "The Well-Grounded Rubyist"
<duderonomy>
That will be my next one, then
<pipework>
Sorry, yeah. The Whale-Grounded Rubyist.
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<bnagy>
I don't really recommend books at all
<bnagy>
because this is computer programming not Art History
<bnagy>
but ymmv I guess
<bnagy>
some people have tax deductions to find
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<womble>
There's something to be said for a large, coherent explanation of a large topic. Doesn't need to be dead tree, but I think learning something like a programming language from a good(!) book is far superior to learning from a collection of (good!) blog posts and screencasts.
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<bnagy>
IME it's a great way to get exposed to a lot of one author's style, which is usually quirky
<pipework>
bnagy: Without reading the books, what's the value in an opinion that says not to use them?
<pipework>
Why bother with anything then?
<pipework>
I prefer ebook form, myself.
<pipework>
You'll get a good taste of any author's style if you read the written word at all.
<pipework>
I'd just suggest finding the medium(s) you learn from best.
<bnagy>
sure, but reading real software is a broader sample so the quirks even out
<pipework>
I'm not sure I agree.
<pipework>
Reading many books could achieve the same effect, plausibly.
<pipework>
Instructional texts are geared towards those whose primary desire is to learn or to begin learning.
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<Ox0dea>
pipework: Mediums are people who attempt to communicate with the dead.
<bnagy>
you're implicitly positing that _any_ of the books are good, there ;)
<pipework>
Ox0dea: Not my fault you're dead inside.
<pipework>
bnagy: Seems like you just have some kind of incoherent beef with books you haven't read. :)
<pipework>
Nothing but a large amount of prescription medication can fix that kind of thing.
* bnagy
yawns
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<pipework>
Just the kind of quality discourse you'll find here at #ruby-lang
<freedrull>
i dont really know what im getting at really
<freedrull>
i just thought i remember gary's tests running faster in his screencasts
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<womble>
freedrull: Probably had a whole heap less gems enabled, or had a faster CPU, or was running everything off a ramdisk, or you're misremembering.
<womble>
So very, very many reasons why performance can differ.
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<freedrull>
womble: one time i removed my stupid fancy git aware PS1 and my shells spawned significantly faster -_-
<freedrull>
definitely have alot of gems.....
<freedrull>
this macbook air isnt the fastest either
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<MouseTheLuckyDog>
I have a list A. I want to do the following: the_one=nil; A.each{|a| if ( matches(a)) then the_one=a; exit each loop }how do I do it?
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<bnagy>
MouseTheLuckyDog: assuming I read your pseudocode correctly, the_one = A.find {|e| condition
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<MouseTheLuckyDog>
bnagy, ? your code is incomplete. I want to test elements of A till I find a match then stop testing.
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<pipework>
freedrull: He wasn't loading the whole environment to run tests.
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<womble>
Is it possible to have both keyword arguments and an options hash in a method signature? I'm not finding any Googlejuice, nor is my blind experimentation getting me anywhere.
<apeiros>
womble: an option hash is just a single non-keyword arg
<zenspider>
... but... _why_?
<apeiros>
womble: so yes. but the {}-less syntax only applies to the last hash passed in, which in case of kwargs is used for those.
<apeiros>
and yeah - why? :D
<womble>
zenspider: Saves me having to do manual validation on the keyword arguments I want to be mandatory, while still allowing "arbitrary" opts (which I just pass through untouched to a backend call).
<apeiros>
womble: **rest
<apeiros>
def foo(kwarg1:, kwarg2:, **rest)
<zenspider>
womble: seems bad
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<womble>
apeiros: Aha! ** was what I hadn't found. Thanks.
<womble>
zenspider: It's not great, but it's either that or put the backend-specific opts in their own parameter, like foo(x:, y:, backend_opts: {})
<womble>
Which I'm also considering, but the opts I *do* want named specifically, and are mandatory, are *also* passed back, after I've massaged them a bit.
<womble>
It's an ugly situation all around, really.
<apeiros>
womble: I usually mirror those so errors are easier to follow. even if that's not DRY :(
<womble>
apeiros: The problem there is that the exact set of available options varies depending on which version of the backend library people are using.
<zenspider>
sounds like bad requirements / design to me
<womble>
Like I said... ugly situation.
<zenspider>
*nod* sorry
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<ht__>
[gtk3] Is there a reason to use Gtk.init before creating and showing a window and starting the main event loop?
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<ht__>
It seems to work without, but the tutorial suggests to use it (but C and Python tutorial don't)