#ruby on 2012-01-12 — irc logs at freenode.irclog.whitequark.org

2011-11-28 00:09 Topic for #ruby is now Ruby programming language || ruby-lang.org || RUBY SUMMER OF CODE! rubysoc.org/ || Paste >3 lines of text in http://pastie.org || Para a nossa audiencia em portugues http://ruby-br.org/

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00:03 <FiestaSmash> Specific question for ruby on rails, say I wanted to send a specialized request to my application, would I have to contact the webmaster of my hosting to find the port to send to, or is it 3000 on most hosting servers?

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00:04 <FiestaSmash> Remakably, it's free hosting, so there isnt much specific documentation for devving ruby applications on such samaritan hosts

00:05 <FiestaSmash> And I can't send directly to the server's IP

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00:06 <arex\> hum, i get a ThreadError as soon as I try to make a thread inside a file.each_line block, even though the thread does nothing at all

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00:18 <frostbytten> Is it possible to change the line endings that File.puts uses?

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00:22 <canton7> frostbytten, set $\, then use print?

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00:24 <shevy> whoa

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00:24 <shevy> does that really work?

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00:25 <frostbytten> I dunno, trying to figure it out. Hasn't worked yet.

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00:25 <canton7> seemed to work for me when I gave it a quick test run

00:25 <canton7> that was to stdout though, not file

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00:32 <frostbytten> canton7: can you pastie your quick sample, I could be messing it up.

00:33 <frostbytten> I was researching it, in 1.9 it's easier (crlf_newline: true) but I have to be 1.8.7 compat

00:33 <canton7> $\ = "hi"; print "hello" => "hellohi". I was assuming that would do the same if $\ was \r\n or \n

00:34 <canton7> ah, backport of crlf_newline maybe?

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00:35 <frostbytten> If I can get the $\ to work, I'll be happy.

00:36 <canton7> I stole it from http://stackoverflow.com/questions/2856038/setting-end-of-line-character-for-puts

00:36 <frostbytten> I wonder… let me check something out.

00:41 <frostbytten> Yep… doesn't work. But I'll figure something out (maybe back port)

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00:42 <frostbytten> Or I could always print("something\r\n")

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00:42 <frostbytten> not exactly what I'd like, but it will work for now

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00:44 * hkhalid slaps frostbytten around a bit with a large trout

00:44 * frostbytten eats trout

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00:44 <hkhalid> lol

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00:45 <frostbytten> because of the simple solution?

00:45 <frostbytten> :D

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00:49 <frostbytten> Thanks for the slap though, I deserved that one. And thanks canton7 for the help, I wasn't googling what I wanted correctly apparently.

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01:23 <Boohbah> h = { name: "Apple", value: 0, name: "Orange", value: 0, name: "Banana", value: 0 }; h.each {|key, value| puts "#{key} is #{value}" }

01:24 <Boohbah> why does it only puts the last key/value pair?

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01:25 <heftig> Boohbah: because you're overwriting earlier entries in the hash with the later ones

01:25 <Boohbah> ahh, deprecated syntax in 1.9

01:25 <Boohbah> oh?

01:26 <heftig> :name is a key and :value is a key

01:26 <heftig> { name: "Apple", name: "Orange" } first associates :name => "Apple", but then overwrites it with :name => "Orange"

01:26 <Boohbah> heftig: yes, i have confused my syntax, thank you

01:27 <heftig> you probably want { "Apple" => 0, "Orange" => 0, "Banana" => 0 }

01:27 <Boohbah> h = { "Apple" => 0, "Orange" => 0, "Banana" => 0 }; h.each {|key, value| puts "#{key} is #{value}" }

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01:28 <Boohbah> works much better, thanks heftig

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01:40 <arex\> Why do the output get truncated (to width=80chars) when I do ruby.exe script.rb > file.txt?

01:40 <arex\> But when I just run it without redirecting to a file, the output shows up normally

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01:41 <jlogsdon> arex\: that's very strange, but I unfortunately don't know anything about how Windows handles redirection

01:42 <jlogsdon> it could just be horribly bad at it, because who does that on windows, right?

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01:43 <clouder`grr> is Base64.encode64 supposed to give me a different result for the same image on windows and ubuntu? both 1.9.2p290?

01:43 <heftig> clouder`grr: ensure you read the image in binary mode

01:43 <arex\> jlogsdon: so it doesn't work the same way on Linux?

01:43 <clouder`grr> I can encode and decode and get the same image back on linux, but on windows it's munging half of it for some reason

01:43 <jlogsdon> nope

01:44 <arex\> jlogsdon: but if i do type file.txt > file2.txt long lines are not a problem

01:44 <arex\> so it must be ruby on windows

01:44 <jlogsdon> i dunno man. like i said, it's strange but i don't know how those things work on windows :)

01:44 <jlogsdon> and yes, must be. but i've never seen that happen

01:44 <heftig> clouder`grr: i.e. add a "b" to the modestring

01:45 <heftig> clouder`grr: does nothing on linux, prevents conversion of lineendings on windows

01:45 <clouder`grr> heftig, ok lemme give it a shot

01:45 <heftig> (do the same when you write the file)

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01:57 <clouder`grr> heftig, thanks

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02:02 <sgronblo> Anyone been able to use ruby-debug with 1.9?

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02:14 <diamonds> so I want to publish a jekyll blog to github but I want to compile the stuff locally so I can use plugins

02:14 <diamonds> has anyone done this?

02:15 <diamonds> basically I just need to figure out how to get the posts (or at least index.html) at the top of the repo so github will serve it properly

02:15 <diamonds> I know you can use github pages or whatever but then github compiles it and you have to use vanilla jekyll

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02:17 <Jarred> Does Shoes make it difficult to make beautiful cross-platform desktop applications?

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02:32 <shevy> I think Shoes is dead

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02:45 <Jarred> Has anyone ever noticed that Why the Lucky Stiff looks a lot like Jack Black?

02:47 <banisterfiend> Jarred: Yeah

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02:58 <shevy> is jack black the fat guy?

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03:00 <banisterfiend> shevy: you seem to have a fat fetish

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03:06 <shevy> banisterfiend just trying to remember who jack black was. the one with the puffed up cheeks like a hamster

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04:48 <frozenskater> help I'm trying to install redcar(a text eitor) and this happens http://pastie.org/3170427. Rubygems is up to date. what is going wrong

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05:08 <shevy> frozenskater that command works for me

05:08 <shevy> my gem version is 1.8.12

05:08 <shevy> what is yours

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05:19 <wassy121> http://pastebin.ca/2102380 - Anyone care to offer a "more ruby" way to do what that code does?

05:19 <wassy121> Just searches ENV['PATH'] to see if a file is there. But I know there should be a better way with collect/inject

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05:21 <banister_> wassy121: look up Enumerable#select

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05:55 <v0n> is there a special value in an_array[offset, limit] which will return the whole array?

05:55 <banister_> v0n: array[0,-1]

05:55 <v0n> banister_, actually no

05:56 <v0n> array[0..-1] does it, but not with 2 args

05:56 <banister_> v0n: ah, array[0, array.size]

05:57 <v0n> hum, there's no magic i can use to do that so... I

05:57 <v0n> 'I'll have to check the passed value anyway

05:57 <v0n> thx

05:58 <banister_> v0n: np pig

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05:58 <v0n> banister_, ?

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06:04 <idiocrash> hello, what's the best gem for parsing RSS feeds?

06:05 <idiocrash> I want to loop through each post in a feed, and insert the different fields into database tables

06:07 <v0n> idiocrash, a while ago I used simple-rss gem which worked pretty well

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06:23 <knightsamar> hi! i have libruby installed and i still get openssl required when running rake (rvm, ruby 1.8.7, gems 1.4.2, ubuntu 10.10)

06:23 <knightsamar> any hints?

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07:24 <DeadZen> I demand that ruby include parse transformations!

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07:24 <si14> DeadZen: +1. it's kinda childish to say "well we have do blocks so please build all your DSLs with that"

07:25 <DeadZen> I mean i can't even take ruby seriously if it doesn't have them

07:25 <Gertm> Unacceptable without them.

07:26 <si14> not really better than Java I suppose.

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07:26 <Gertm> Well if we don't have parse transformations, atleast java is fast..

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07:27 <si14> I've started to write Lisp instead of Java because of macroses. Than I've discovered Erlang with it's precious parse transformations. And now one of my colleague are pushing RoR to our production — and Ruby doesn't even have PTs

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07:28 <si14> I'm ruined deep inside. Feels really, really bad.

07:29 <banister_> si14: ruby has other things

07:30 <si14> banister_: like what? how can I modify sources programattically without much pain?

07:30 <banister_> si14: you can 'fake' macros very well with blocks, for example. And ruby has a very flexible syntax enabling you to create DSLs

07:30 <si14> banister_: si14> DeadZen: +1. it's kinda childish to say "well we have do blocks so please build all your DSLs with that"

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07:31 <banister_> si14: blocks aren't the only thing enabling DSLs, i said 'flexible syntax'.

07:31 <si14> it's a common sense that says that blocks are nothing compared to proper macroses

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07:31 <rippa> but they also work

07:31 <DeadZen> but I just want ruby to have parse transforms, I don't understand why it doesn't have them already...

07:31 <DeadZen> its not the same!

07:32 <rippa> because only erlang has it?

07:32 <si14> rippa: lisps has same thingies

07:32 <si14> rippa: and Dylan

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07:32 <banister_> DeadZen: give me an example of something you can achieve with parse transforms

07:33 <banister_> and i'll see if it's possible to do something similar with ruby

07:33 <rippa> google only gives erlang on "parse transform"

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07:33 <si14> rippa: and even nemerle has something similar

07:33 <banister_> si14: mention a mainstream languages, instead of these strange exotica

07:34 <si14> rippa: and that's MS shit, it's just a shame to be worse than MS in something

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07:34 <DeadZen> banister_: how bout forcing variable declaration immutability while using a mutable interface

07:34 <rippa> si14: explain what a parse transform is

07:34 <si14> banister_: compile-time computations?

07:34 <rippa> never heard of it

07:34 <si14> rippa: operations on AST

07:34 <banister_> si14: it's a dyamic language, fucko, there is no such thing as 'compile-time'

07:34 <si14> banister_: Lisps are dynamic too

07:35 <banister_> si14: ruby is interpreted

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07:35 <banister_> there is no 'compile time'

07:35 <si14> banister_: learn some SICP please before speaking about something being dynamic or not

07:35 <si14> banister_: so does Scheme

07:35 <banister_> i meant interpeted, not dynamic, sorry

07:35 <rippa> http://boons.maidlab.jp:82/1326300681789.gif

07:36 <banister_> si14: look, fight with your colleagues about this, i dont actually care if you're upset about your companies choice

07:36 <banister_> company's

07:36 <DeadZen> fucko is a dynamic language?

07:37 <banister_> DeadZen: yeah it's brainfuck's girlfriend

07:37 <havenn> DeadZen: Ruby has no use for parse transforms, no compile time.

07:37 <havenn> good lord..

07:37 <si14> banister_: Scheme is interpreted and has macroses that are applied in a time that is "compile-time" for this particular piece of code

07:37 <si14> banister_: so does Common Lisp

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07:37 <havenn> si14: Ruby doesn't have macros

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07:38 <si14> banister_: so please don't bitch about things that you are just ignorant about

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07:38 <si14> havenn: that's the question that has been stated

07:38 <rippa> si14: don't bitch about things nobody knows or cares about

07:38 <si14> rippa: blahblahblah

07:38 <rippa> I still don't know why would I want a "parse transform"

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07:39 <si14> rippa: why didn't you write some Java instead of Ruby? no one knows about Ruby, it's some marginal shit compared to Java

07:39 <rippa> I don't like java

07:39 <rippa> it's not pretty

07:40 <havenn> Ruby is friendly, pretty, elegant, concise. Java is mean, ugly, brutish, and crufty.

07:41 <si14> Erlang is friendly, pretty, elegant, concise. Java is mean, ugly, brutish, and crufty. And even doesn't have macroses.

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07:50 <GreaseMonkey> actually ruby's not particularly obscure

07:50 <GreaseMonkey> oh btw people still code in COBOL

07:50 <GreaseMonkey> and *FORTRAN* of all languages

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07:58 <sgronblo> yay language nerd war!

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08:23 <nobitanobi> morning

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08:24 <wallerdev> mroing

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08:25 <rippa> mirroring

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08:45 <rly> GreaseMonkey: Fortran has its uses.

08:45 <rly> Elegancy is just not one of them.

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08:47 <Boohbah> (07:39) ( si14) rippa: why didn't you write some Java instead of Ruby? no one knows about Ruby, it's some marginal shit compared to Java

08:47 <rly> si14: and yes, you are right that Common Lisp/Scheme/Smalltalk are 'superior' to Ruby in a sense, but apparently the economic impact of Ruby is larger than of those other languages. Talking about it in a channel with vested interests is not going to get you anywhere.

08:47 <Boohbah> this is just not true

08:48 <Boohbah> lots of people know about ruby

08:48 <rly> Boohbah: if we define marginal as less than 5%, then it is true.

08:48 <rly> Perhaps it isn't 'shit', but it isn't exactly a stable platform.

08:48 <si14> rly: in fact, I appreciate Ruby and I really love RoR. so it was trolling at 99.9%

08:48 <tranny> lol

08:48 <Boohbah> si14: glad someone is trying to liven up the discussion in here :)

08:49 <si14> btw, did you hear about this one: https://github.com/erlyvideo/rack ?

08:49 <rly> I just want software that works; if I have to use Ruby to solve one of my problems, so be it.

08:50 <ion> AFAIU someone had complained about Erlang not having Ruby’s do blocks on an Erlang channel/mailin list or something and that inspired some Erlang people to come here to troll about Ruby not having parse transforms. :-P

08:50 <si14> basically it's a tool to run rails under Erlang webserver. performance is somewhat close to top-notch servers like nginx, but the thing is that you can seamlessly integrate your mostly static Rails stuff and dynamic Erlang goodness

08:50 <havenn> ion: Aha, that explains... hehe.

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08:52 <rly> I have rvm installed, I got myself a newer Ruby interpreter. Is that the only thing rvm does?

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09:28 <rly> Never mind.

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09:30 <toy_battery> what do you mean?

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09:48 <rly> ri Array

09:48 <rly> Nothing known about Array

09:48 <rly> Why doesn't that work?

09:49 <heftig> no magnets

09:49 <heftig> i guess the docs weren't built

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09:55 <rly> Perhaps it is difficult for you to understand such questions. How can it be made to work? I installed ruby in various ways (I have one from my OS and one from rvm, now why can't it just say 'if you want to have the docs, install X')

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09:56 <rly> I already answered this question myself too.

09:56 iocor [iocor!~textual@unaffiliated/iocor] has joined #ruby

09:57 <rly> Except, how documentation can use 100% of one core is beyond me.

09:57 <rly> Who wrote it such that it is that slow?

09:58 <rly> Or wth is it doing that is so complicated?

09:58 <heftig> what's using 100%?

09:58 <heftig> ri?

09:58 gianlucadv [gianlucadv!~gianlucad@st-dellaved.statistica.unimib.it] has joined #ruby

09:58 <rly> heftig: some ruby process generating 'all documentation'.

09:59 <heftig> that's going to take a while

09:59 <rly> It wasn't that bad, it took about 15 seconds.

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10:09 <rly> irb > require "rubygems" returns false. How do I make it return true? I am using an rvm version of Ruby.

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10:13 <rly> I suppose the instructions suck/are out of date.

10:15 <banister_> rly: a return value of false means it's already required

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11:00 <diverdude> I am getting this error: Gem::SourceIndex#add_spec called from /usr/local/lib/site_ruby/1.8/rubygems/source_index.rb:127 -> that line containing: add_spec gemspec if gemspec. Do you know how to get rid of that error?

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11:04 <diverdude> anyone?

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11:05 <diverdude> The full error is: Gem::SourceIndex#add_spec called from /usr/local/lib/site_ruby/1.8/rubygems/source_index.rb:127. NOTE: Gem::SourceIndex#add_spec is deprecated, use Specification.add_spec. It will be removed on or after 2011-11-01.

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11:07 <Muz> diverdude: you've given no hint on what you're actually doing that results in that error.

11:07 <diverdude> Muz, im running git-daemon from gitorious

11:08 <leehambley> how should one ensure when building ruby from source that the 1.9.3-p0 headers are moved into -/include/ruby-1.9.1/ruby-1.9.3-p0

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11:48 <davidpk> Is there any way with a regexp match that i can obtain the raw character-range data of the match?

11:50 <davidpk> eg. "hello world!".match /hello (.+?)!/ #=> ["hello world!", "world"]

11:50 <davidpk> can i instead get something like

11:51 <davidpk> "hello world!".match /hello (.+?)!/ #=> [0..11, 6..10]

11:51 <rippa> look at MatchData class

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11:52 <rippa> methods such as begin, end, offset

11:52 <davidpk> aha, thanks

11:52 <impulze> if i want to render a different form (in rails) for the same model, how would i implement that? (i have _form.html.haml and _form_another.html.haml)

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11:59 <seme> hi guys can anyone tell me why assert_equal [], array[4,1] is true but assert_equal nil, array[5,0] is also true for the array array = [:peanut, :butter, :and, :jelly]... for that array both 4 and 5 are out of range for starting points so I would expect them both to return nil

11:59 provideal [provideal!~hornp@p4FFF8371.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #ruby

11:59 <seme> sorry for such a newbie question... I'm reading the kones guide for ruby and this one just stumps me

11:59 <banister_> seme: google it

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12:01 <provideal> Hey folks, is there a sequence generation mechanism in ruby, as in scala: http://www.scala-lang.org/node/111 ? I know it can be done with ranges, select, map, and so on, but sometimes a shorthand would just be great.

12:01 <seme> banister_: thanks.... I did and read the class library docs but it is odd.. they seem to indicate that the slice array[4,1] or array[4,0] should be nil

12:02 <banister_> seme: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/3568222/array-slicing-in-ruby-looking-for-explanation-for-illogical-behaviour-taken-fr

12:02 <seme> thanks banister_ I didn't see that

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12:06 <rippa> provideal: how is it shorter in scala than in ruby?

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12:12 <seme> banister_: makes sense when you realize that start is not an index ;)

12:12 <banister_> provideal: we use enumerators

12:12 <seme> the docs could use some clarification... it really doesn't say that even though the behavior is documented

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12:13 <provideal> I just try to construct an compelling example ;)

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12:14 <banister_> provideal: ruby does not have list comprehensions, if that's what u mean

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12:14 <provideal> banister_: OK. So we're done there ;)

12:15 <banister_> provideal: Yeah, and Matz explicitly left out list comprehensions. I think the rationale was that while they're good for very simple cases, for more complicated cases they are very hard to read/understand and that using map/select is often a lot clearer

12:17 <provideal> OK... I used that a LOT in programming mathematics and enjoyed it in Maple/MuPad/Mathematica -- that's why I ask.

12:17 <banister_> provideal: interesting, can you show me a case where you used it

12:19 <provideal> well... It's mainly like f(x) $ x in S or f(i) $ i=1..100 or the like. It can of course be written as S.map{|x| f(x)}

12:20 <rippa> provideal: S.map(&method(:f))

12:20 <rippa> kinda useless but funny-looking

12:21 <provideal> rippa: WTF...

12:21 <rippa> method(:f) gives you method

12:21 <rippa> & converts it to proc

12:21 <rippa> which is then called on all elements

12:21 <rippa> same as your example

12:22 <provideal> rippa: holy shit... yeah. That's advanced syntax ... You can easily confuse people like that.

12:23 <rippa> it's like an extension of things like .inject(&:+)

12:24 <provideal> I use THAT a lot :)

12:25 <rippa> [(1..10).to_a].transpose.inject(:product)

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12:28 <provideal> neat

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12:56 <provideal> Is there a better way to write this: http://pastie.org/3172113 -- where condition is not as simple as > 8 or the like

12:57 maasha [maasha!82e1d332@gateway/web/freenode/ip.130.225.211.50] has joined #ruby

12:57 <maasha> hello

12:59 leehambley [leehambley!~codebeake@pd956c64f.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #ruby

13:00 <maasha> I want to multi-thread a list of tasks. Some tasks are tiny (strcmp of 2 lines), some are biggish (strcmp of 1000 lines) and I am trying to figure out if the overhead of Thread will negate the advantage if I create threads for each of the small tasks?

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13:07 <maasha> O_o

13:10 <provideal> maasha: I'd suggest to just do experiments to find the correct threshold. From my experience it's quite reasonable to have not-to-many threads, each computing severals results.

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13:13 <`brendan> morning

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13:16 <devians> hey guys, i'm new to ruby and wondering if theres a good guide to setting up a ruby environment?

13:16 <maasha> provideal: yeah. hm, I need to come up with a neat way to divide the tasks into equivalent chunks

13:16 <devians> it seems ruby is quite sensitive to versions etc

13:16 <maasha> ruby 1.8 should be shot :o)

13:20 <provideal> maasha: yeah, that's challenging :) you'll need to have some heuristic based on the average complexity in some "size" metric.

13:20 <davidpk> i wonder when Apple will finally switch the stock ruby in os x to 1.9

13:20 <davidpk> if ever

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13:24 <maasha> upgrading ruby1.8 to 1.9 on a mac requires a credit card ...

13:25 <davidpk> what?

13:25 <davidpk> `brew install ruby` does it just fine

13:26 <maasha> heh. with mac lion you need xcode from app store.

13:26 <maasha> otherwise you cant brew anything.

13:26 <davidpk> or if you're fancy, rvm

13:26 canton7 [canton7!~canton7@87-194-161-58.bethere.co.uk] has joined #ruby

13:26 <davidpk> maasha: … xcode is free on the app store

13:26 <davidpk> maasha: and it still comes on disc with every mac

13:26 <davidpk> maasha: AND if you don't like that thereare third-party compiler packages you can use

13:27 <maasha> davidpk: sure, but to get an account they wanted my CC. There should be a work around for that, but I wasted hours trying to find it.

13:27 <davidpk> maasha: you don't need a credit card to buy from the itunes store. many people (kids, etc) run their accounts by buying gift cards with cash and typing in the codes

13:27 <davidpk> for a free app, you shouldn't even have to do that

13:29 <maasha> davidpk: sure, but I failed. No obvious way to deselect the CC requirement. And I suspect Apple just wants your CC so you may accidentially buy something one day.

13:29 j0bk [j0bk!bed28bc9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.190.210.139.201] has joined #ruby

13:29 <maasha> could be a european issue, but never mind.

13:29 <devians> CONSPIRACY THEORIES :P

13:29 tomzx [tomzx!~tomzx@dsl-156-68.aei.ca] has joined #ruby

13:30 <devians> big old evil apple wants mah moneys! :P

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13:34 <maasha> devians: well, look how much $$$ Apple have hoarded and call it a conspiracy theory again ...

13:34 <maasha> :o)

13:35 <devians> im not sure i follow? they're a successful business by producing items people want and by not treating their customers like crap.

13:35 <devians> wheres the conspiracy?

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13:42 <shevy> in my pants

13:43 dAnjou [dAnjou!~max@141.45.81.216] has joined #ruby

13:43 <shevy> NOONE DARES SAY IT IS A SMALL CONSPIRACY!!!

13:45 <dAnjou> hi, i'm using an ubuntu lucid (LTS, pretty old) and i'd like to have the current rubygems release. but i don't want to install it into the system. how can i install it into my home dir so that all paths are set correctly (for commands like 'gem')?

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13:47 <dAnjou> nevermind http://docs.rubygems.org/read/chapter/3

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13:58 <prs`> I have a module Foo that contains a class Bar. Given myBar="Bar" how do I call Foo::mybar.new?

13:58 <prs`> not sure if that made any sense

13:59 <heftig> prs`: Foo.const_get(mybar).new

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14:00 <prs`> heftig: thanks

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14:04 <rly> How can I have irb run a script and then not exit?

14:05 <dida> while true

14:05 <rly> dida: such that I can enter additional commands...

14:05 <rly> dida: please.

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14:06 <dida> i'm new to ruby, but try unless maybe?

14:07 <rly> dida: I hope for you that you are a bot.

14:07 <maasha> OK, I need inspiration to multi-thread this bit: http://pastie.org/3172452

14:08 <dida> rly, i am not :)

14:08 <maasha> I reckon a new thread per 1000 members is OK

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14:10 <maasha> But how?

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14:13 <shevy> 10000.times Thread.new

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14:14 <maasha> Nah

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14:16 <JonnieCache> rly: you want a while loop like he said

14:16 <JonnieCache> but irb already does that anway...

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14:19 <JonnieCache> maasha: you can do a new thread by passing a block to Thread.new

14:19 <rly> JonnieCache: no, I want to run all the commands in the foo.rb file and then I want to get an irb prompt in which I can call functions which have been defined in the foo.rb code.

14:19 <rly> JonnieCache: a while loop doesn't do anything useful.

14:20 <rly> It will just waste CPU time and nothing else if there is nothing in the while loop.

14:20 <JonnieCache> well you asked how can i have irb run a script and then not exit, which isnt very clear. i didnt mean an empty while loop, rather a while loop that waits for commands, which is what irb does anyway

14:21 <banisterfiend> rly: use pry

14:21 <JonnieCache> but now you have clarified, the answer is simply to run `irb -r your_script.rb`

14:21 <JonnieCache> yeah or pry which also takes the -r switch

14:21 <banisterfiend> rly: http://pry.github.com and then put 'binding.pry' where u want the session to start

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14:21 <JonnieCache> yeah or do that if you want more control i guess

14:22 <banisterfiend> that way you also get locals

14:22 <JonnieCache> hmm so do you end up in a different scope with irb -r then? didnt know that

14:23 <JonnieCache> i guess youre just requiring it so that makes sense

14:23 <banisterfiend> JonnieCache: Yeah

14:23 <JonnieCache> ive only ever used it to give myself a sinatra console

14:24 <JonnieCache> and all my sinatra apps are classes, so yeah it doesnt come up

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14:26 <rly> banisterfiend: can't you just give an exact command?

14:27 <rly> banisterfiend: the file is called foo.rb

14:27 <rly> banisterfiend: I have pry and then what?

14:27 <JonnieCache> require 'pry' at the top

14:27 <JonnieCache> then call binding.pry wherever you want your prompt

14:27 <banisterfiend> it's kind of like setting a break point

14:27 <rly> JonnieCache: call it where?

14:28 <JonnieCache> thats up to you

14:28 <JonnieCache> wherever you want the prompt to happen

14:28 <JonnieCache> at the end maybe?

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14:29 <rly> JonnieCache: ok, it works.

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14:30 <banisterfiend> rly: read up on pry when u get a chance she's quite a powerful little b.

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14:31 <lupine_85> has anyone here ever experienced an interpretor segfault with ruby 1.8.7 + openssl (squeeze versions - p302 / ?) ?

14:31 <lupine_85> interpreter*

14:31 <JonnieCache> yes. they happen from time to time. nothing is bugree

14:31 <lupine_85> I'm trying to track down the causes of one (reported as a double free inside the constructor of a class) but I have minimal information

14:31 <JonnieCache> *bugfree

14:31 <lupine_85> also no testcase yet :/

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14:39 <dida> jlogsdon, hey there. not sure if you remember me from yesterday, but can you help me again with the same thing?

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14:45 <zxiest> Hello :-)

14:45 <zxiest> If we're in a module that's being included, self is the object which class includes the module? if the model is being extended, self is the module?

14:46 <shevy> what

14:46 <shevy> also what "model"

14:46 <zxiest> module*

14:46 <shevy> ;P

14:46 <zxiest> typo.. sorry =)

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14:46 <shevy> gets your brain all worked up man!

14:46 <shevy> settle down, take a breath ...

14:47 <shevy> self should not be changeable by any module, I think

14:47 canton7 [canton7!~canton7@188-222-105-229.zone13.bethere.co.uk] has joined #ruby

14:47 <zxiest> hmm.. let me try

14:47 <shevy> if a class is extended by a module, I think the module becomes a full part of that class

14:47 super-man [super-man!~man@178.52.215.239] has joined #ruby

14:48 <super-man> Hello

14:48 csavola [csavola!~csavola@76-10-149-67.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #ruby

14:48 <zxiest> shevy I see... Let me test a few things :-)

14:48 <dida> hey! this "http://pastebin.com/16he0CPF" is a part of my IRC bot. it's a register function that puts data into a file using hashes. yesterday with the help of jlogsdon i managed to start it, but unfortunately it still has some errors in it i can not manage to find.

14:48 <dida> can you please take a look at it?

14:49 <JonnieCache> zxiest: just sprinkle some `puts __LINE__+' ' +self.inspect` lines around the place

14:49 zakwilson [zakwilson!~quassel@c-69-180-70-100.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #ruby

14:49 <zxiest> JonnieCache will do, thanks :-)

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14:51 <super-man> I want bot transleation tex arabic and english

14:52 <super-man> Can help me

14:52 <dida> could anyone look at my script please? ^^

14:53 <super-man> Why

14:53 <super-man> Can gev me bot

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15:01 <ozy_work> I don't suppose it is possible to convert an active record schema.rb file into sql statements, is it? I can find many hits on google going the other way

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15:02 <dida> noone looks at my script? :(

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15:03 <froio> how do i check if indicies of a matrix are in the lower tirangualr sied of a square matrix ? and if them are how do i get the symmetric index in the upper side?

15:04 <JonnieCache> with some maths

15:04 <froio> thanks lol

15:05 <froio> :D

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15:05 <JonnieCache> well theres the Matrix class in ruby and it has some simple matrix operations

15:05 <JonnieCache> but youd be better off asking on mathoverflow or something

15:06 <froio> ffffffff

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15:07 <JonnieCache> lol not a fan of mathoverflow?

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15:08 <froio> i m but not for those stupid question, i will solve alone

15:08 <ozy_work> sounds like homework

15:08 <JonnieCache> i have no idea if that question is difficult or not tbh, i havent done any proper maths since age 16

15:09 <JonnieCache> and that was hardly proper maths lol

15:09 <froio> lol

15:09 <froio> it is not

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15:11 <froio> in the lower side you are when i > j if i m not wrong

15:11 <froio> i getting the rows and j columns

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15:13 <froio> yes it is right when i > j you are in the lower side

15:13 <froio> and how i should get the other sid

15:13 <froio> side

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15:22 <froio> ok the answer is given i,j -> j,i ..

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15:47 * lapas kas 2x2 off

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16:01 <yakko> there's a ruby command to write pure HTML, you guys remember how to use it?

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16:02 <JonnieCache> what do you mean write pure html

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16:03 <shevy> hehe

16:03 <shevy> yakko you need to be more specific

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16:12 <ozy_work> I'm using active records, and I am getting an error when trying to create a table, because something is being parsed incorrectly -- the first time I see VARCHAR2(255) (or any other tpy declaration) it looks normal, but on subsiquent uses of that same time, the parenthesis are incremented -- so I get VARCHAR2(255)(255) -- any idea what is going on?

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16:13 <JonnieCache> that is weird

16:13 <JonnieCache> post your code

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16:14 <ozy_work> it's from puppet -- and I am not a ruby programmer, so bear with me

16:14 <ozy_work> I assume you want shema.rb? that appears a standard file, right?

16:14 <ozy_work> schema*

16:15 <JonnieCache> so its bootstrapping the db from a prexisting rails app?

16:15 internet_user [internet_user!~internet_@abe.cul.columbia.edu] has joined #ruby

16:15 <JonnieCache> yeah post it to pastie or something

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16:16 <helllen> helllo

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16:16 <JonnieCache> haha hi

16:16 ezotrank [ezotrank!~ezotrank@43-81-52-95.baltnet.ru] has joined #ruby

16:16 <helllen> someone knows how to execute sql sentences directly with datamapper?

16:17 Codif [Codif!~codif@84.120.204.160.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #ruby

16:18 <shevy> QUERY_WTF_SOMETHING_LIKE_THIS("OK");

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16:19 <ozy_work> http://pastie.org/3173053 JonnieCache

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16:23 <JonnieCache> ozy_work: that all looks fairly legit to me, but i cant comment on the puppet specific stuff

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16:24 <JonnieCache> ozy_work: the only unusual looking bit is the custom index stuff under mysql

16:25 <JonnieCache> line 26 etc

16:25 <ozy_work> hmm

16:25 <ozy_work> ok

16:25 <ozy_work> I wonder if it is a bug int he version of things being used

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16:25 <JonnieCache> well mysql does indeed need a length specified for indexes on text columns

16:26 <JonnieCache> but there puppet is doing this with some custom SQL passed into an execute statement

16:26 <ozy_work> well, that should not even exec

16:26 <ozy_work> I am using Oracle

16:26 <ozy_work> oracle_enhanced

16:26 <JonnieCache> ahhh for some reason i thought you were using mysql.

16:27 <JonnieCache> hmm so nothing in that if block should be executed at all

16:27 <slackgen> I am executing several Model.average calls in a row on the same set of data, is there any way to optimize the SQL calls?

16:27 <JonnieCache> because its either == "mysql" or != "oracle_enhanced"

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16:29 <helllen> someone knows how to execute sql sentences directly with datamapper?

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16:29 <JonnieCache> erm well you should perhaps stop it from sending stdout to /dev/null so you might get a better chance of some useful errors

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16:31 <slackgen> helllen: have you tried asking in #datamapper ?

16:32 jamiejackson [jamiejackson!~jamie@pool-71-127-46-176.washdc.east.verizon.net] has joined #ruby

16:33 <helllen> I will

16:33 <helllen> thanks

16:33 <helllen> I didn't know it exists a datamapper chanel

16:33 <helllen> thanks

16:33 <helllen> bye

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16:42 <Tasser> can I defined my own tab-separated grammar with the csv parser?

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17:16 <atmosx> hello

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17:22 <atmosx> can someone help with this? http://codepad.org/WQN2cYfi#comment-5lrGPpKo

17:22 <atmosx> for some reason the begin/rescue/try don't work as they should

17:22 akemrir [akemrir!~akemrir@cpe-109-197-96-47.docsis.tczew.net.pl] has joined #ruby

17:22 <atmosx> actually they were working, they suddenly stopped

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17:30 <nobitanobi> afternoon

17:31 counterbeing [counterbeing!~textual@c-24-4-206-189.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #ruby

17:31 <nobitanobi> I've a question. If I do this x = 0 if false .. And later I try to do 'x' .. would ruby treat x as a variable? Would it take the assignment into account regardless of the conditional?

17:31 <cremes> nobitanobi: no, it won't

17:32 <cremes> nobitanobi: you can try simple things like this for yourself in irb

17:32 <nobitanobi> I've tried that, and it does

17:32 <nobitanobi> and I'm surpirsed it treats like a variable

17:33 <Hanmac> its because of the parser

17:33 <nobitanobi> I've tried this: http://pastie.org/3173418

17:33 <nobitanobi> and the puts x after the line x=0 if false, doesn't call the method, but it returns NIL

17:33 <nobitanobi> so I assumed is taking into account the var declaration

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17:35 <Hanmac> even if "x = 0" is not exceuted, the parser notic that and think x is a variable

17:35 <nobitanobi> ok Hanmac , then is what I thought

17:35 <nobitanobi> thank you, and thanks cremes: I tried it :P

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17:36 <cremes> Hanmac: seems like a bug... that mri, jruby and rubinius all have (probably because they share parsers)

17:36 <nobitanobi> I've just tried with a constant

17:36 Ziioynx [Ziioynx!~nkondra@s207-216-243-126.bc.hsia.telus.net] has joined #ruby

17:36 <nobitanobi> well, thanks guys

17:37 <Hanmac> hm i dont know if its realy a bug. it is more then a feature ...

17:38 friskd [friskd!~friskd@71-95-209-242.static.mtpk.ca.charter.com] has joined #ruby

17:38 <JonnieCache> sometimes quirks of the grammar like that are kept for the sake of simplicity

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17:39 <Hanmac> cremes: if the parser did not remember the local variables it would decrease the speed because it must check every time if the varable is a method

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17:40 <JonnieCache> ruby's grammar is already so complicated compared to other languages

17:40 <JonnieCache> heres ruby 1.8: http://www.flickr.com/photos/nicksieger/280661836/in/photostream/

17:40 <JonnieCache> here's python: http://www.flickr.com/photos/nicksieger/281055485/

17:41 <JonnieCache> so you can see why they are resistant to add more grammatical edge cases to ruby

17:41 Skaag_ [Skaag_!~Skaag@cpe-67-247-51-89.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #ruby

17:41 <nobitanobi> so would we say the variable is instantiated?

17:42 <nobitanobi> to nil?

17:42 <nobitanobi> or...

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17:42 <nobitanobi> what does the parser do? Just know that 'x' is a variable?

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17:46 <Tasser> JonnieCache, probably matz just sucks at implementing parsers? ^^

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17:47 <davidpk> JonnieCache: That's a false comparison. Ruby's "complicated" syntax often makes things easier for the programmer

17:47 <davidpk> like w/keyword arguments, where you don't need to put {} around the hash

17:48 <nobitanobi> how can I know if something is a variable or method? Or how ruby is treating it like? ruby.is_var or something like that?

17:48 <davidpk> Tasser: more complicated grammars are more difficult to implement. i'm pretty sure ruby's parser is generated, not hand-written, also

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17:51 <Hanmac> nobitanobi: if "x()" works it is an method, or an argmumentError, if you get an noMethodError it is maybe an variable

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17:51 <nobitanobi> ok :)

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17:52 <Tasser> davidpk, depends on the parser framework ;-)

17:52 <Hanmac> and if then "x" does not work, it is also not an variable

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17:53 <davidpk> always pisses me off that Ruby has seperate function and value namespaces every time i try to pass a function to a function. but i guess it wouldn't work any other way, or at least be confusingly ambiguous

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17:54 <Tasser> davidpk, method namespace: self. local value namespace: binding

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18:09 <apok> andy: think you were looking for something like this: http://aslamnajeebdeen.com/blog/how-to-create-your-own-local-copy-of-rails-api-doc-and-guides?utm_source=rubyweekly&utm_medium=email

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18:15 <atmosx> I don't get it. Why would someone want a NoSQL database on which he cannot write a lot and not use it huge amounts of data: https://github.com/Anonyfox/kioku/blob/master/README.rdoc

18:16 <atmosx> maybe for experimentation

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18:20 <epochwolf|vps> atmosx: flat files are fast?

18:21 <a|i> when creating a gem with native extension using rake-compiler, it creates a shared object under lib/. should that shared object be in gitignore, assuming that it will get generated at installation time?

18:21 <atmosx> epochwolf|vps: depends I guess

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18:22 <epochwolf|vps> atmosx: if you're doing with a small amount of data that's infrequently updated, like a blog, flat files are probably a good way to go. Of course jekyll's is probably better.

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18:24 <apok> nosql lulz

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18:25 * epochwolf|vps is firmly in the postgres pocket.

18:25 <epochwolf|vps> transaction ddls FTW!

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18:31 <nobitanobi> Is it recommended to use the token "then" in the 'if' statement? Or it actually doesn't matter?

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18:34 <confounds> nobitanobi don't bother

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18:35 <apeiros_> nobitanobi: it doesn't matter. personally I like it because I find it easier to read with it.

18:35 <florentg> hello all! I intend to add documentation to the RbConfig module.

18:35 <ElitestFX> nobitanobi, I generally leave it out.

18:36 <florentg> rbconfig.rb is generated during the ruby build by mkconfig.rb so I intended to write the documentation in mkconfig.rb.

18:36 <confounds> nobitanobi but do use the 'therefore' token

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18:36 <florentg> But I think it would not appear in the RDoc html-based doc. Is there a way to write documentation for RbConfig that can appear in the RDoc html-based doc?

18:36 <nobitanobi> ok, I just wanted to make sure it doesn't matter for the parser

18:36 <confounds> nope

18:36 <nobitanobi> confounds: therefore?

18:36 <nobitanobi> are you kidding?

18:36 <confounds> nobitanobi yeah :)

18:37 <nobitanobi> oh damn it. I'm not an English speaker and I get confused

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18:46 <centipedefarmer_> why is CSV::Table#to_a bombing out thusly? https://gist.github.com/1602311

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18:46 <centipedefarmer_> it's complaining of no #headers method. I'm not calling any such method, so apparently #to_a is. Am I to believe this standard library is broken?

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18:49 <centipedefarmer_> okay for starters I didn't pass :headers => true to CSV::parse

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18:50 <centipedefarmer_> but if I didn't ask for headers (even mistakenly) then that shouldn't break to_a

18:50 <centipedefarmer_> should it?

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18:54 <wallerdev> centipedefarmer_: thats an odd error, do you have a stack trace? does it happen if you just call to_a without index?

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18:57 <centipedefarmer_> same thing happens

18:57 <centipedefarmer_> i tried commenting out everything on that line after the to_a

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18:58 <centipedefarmer_> i don't have much of a stack trace apart from that line number then back to the spec

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18:59 <centipedefarmer_> maybe there's an option i can pass minitest to show more stack trace?

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18:59 <jlogsdon> nonotza: every style guide i've seen recommends not using "then"

18:59 zenergi_ [zenergi_!~zenergi@pdpc/supporter/student/zenergi] has joined #ruby

19:00 <nonotza> ?

19:00 <jlogsdon> sorry

19:00 <jlogsdon> the guy i meant to tab to left :V

19:00 <jlogsdon> and wait, that's from last night

19:00 <jlogsdon> oh god

19:00 <jlogsdon> im a failure ;_;

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19:02 <Scorchin> If I have a hash stored in another file, e.g. 'conf', how can I require that file and then use the hash labelled 'conf' ?

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19:04 <Scorchin> never mind, figured it out :)

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19:25 <chiel> Hi guys, I've tried asking in #rvm already, but nobody seems to be alive in there. I'm trying to install ruby 1.9.3 in rvm, but it's complaining about the C compiler not working. Any ideas?

19:26 <chiel> I'm on OS X Lion, Xcode 4.2.1

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19:26 <JustinCampbell> chiel: one sec

19:26 <JustinCampbell> try

19:26 <JustinCampbell> export CC=/usr/bin/gcc-4.2

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19:29 <chiel> JustinCampbell: thanks, apparently I failed to notice I needed to compile with "--with-gcc=clang"

19:29 <chiel> It's gotten as far as "compiling" now - fingers crossed

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19:31 <JustinCampbell> chiel: i also put this in my .rvmrc sometimes for projects, but its been working without it recently so i dunno https://gist.github.com/1602546

19:35 <chiel> JustinCampbell: what exactly does it do?

19:35 <JustinCampbell> .rvmrc is evaluated when you cd into a directory

19:35 <JustinCampbell> so it sets CC to gcc-4.2, installs the ruby, and creates a gemset

19:36 <JustinCampbell> and the last line changes back to your system ruby when you cd out of it

19:36 <JustinCampbell> change project to the project name

19:36 <chiel> ah k

19:36 <chiel> well, I don't care much for the system ruby version really

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19:36 <chiel> I just use rvm because I don't want to screw os x up

19:36 <chiel> so I don't want to mess with the 1.8.7 install

19:36 mmokrysz [mmokrysz!~mmokrysz@pdpc/supporter/student/mmokrysz] has joined #ruby

19:37 <chiel> other than that, I'm find with running everything on the same rvm version.

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19:41 <JustinCampbell> chiel: well, that also could mean "switch back to the rvm default ruby"

19:41 <JustinCampbell> but either way, not stay on the one for that project

19:41 <JustinCampbell> if you rvm default 1.9.3, cd into a jruby project, and cd out, by default youll still be on jruby

19:43 leifmadsen [leifmadsen!~Leif@asterisk/documenteur-extraordinaire/blitzrage] has joined #ruby

19:44 <leifmadsen> afternoon all -- brand new to ruby, but trying to modify an existing script. I have an array with a list of files in it: configfiles = [ "foo", "bar", "etc" ] -- my question is, I have a directory "common" that has several files in it, and I want them listed in this array. Is there a way to do something like "common/*" without having to specify all the files?

19:46 <chiel> JustinCampbell: yeah, but I currently only work on one project, so it should be okay :)

19:46 <chiel> thanks for the heads-up though

19:46 ChampS666 [ChampS666!~ChampS@p54B4DBB5.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #ruby

19:47 <rippa> leifmadsen: Dir#entries

19:47 <leifmadsen> rippa: so, for example: configfiles = [ "common#entries", "foo", "bar" ] ?

19:48 <rippa> no

19:48 <rippa> read documentation

19:48 <leifmadsen> ya googling now

19:48 <rippa> Dir.entries('common')

19:48 <rippa> actually

19:48 <rippa> that's Dir.entries

19:48 <rippa> not #

19:49 <leifmadsen> aha, ok thanks

19:49 <leifmadsen> much obliged

19:49 <rippa> it's a class method

19:49 <leifmadsen> yep just found that, reading the docs, thanks again

19:49 <rippa> # is for instance methods

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20:02 <Avi`> any suggestions on idiomatic sayings for trying to control the uncontrollable, like 'herding cats' (but not that one..)

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20:35 <Penguin_Gab> hihi all

20:36 user__ [user__!~akem@222.144.120.78.rev.sfr.net] has joined #ruby

20:37 <Penguin_Gab> hi all why is ruby good over php?

20:37 wmoxam [wmoxam!~wmoxam@pdpc/supporter/active/wmoxam] has joined #ruby

20:37 <canton7> learn it, play with it for a few weeks without touching PHP, then go back to coding PHP

20:38 <Penguin_Gab> ok

20:38 <Penguin_Gab> thank you

20:38 <Penguin_Gab> will i ever go back?

20:39 <canton7> I found it painful

20:39 nonotza [nonotza!~nonotza@66.246.94.130] has joined #ruby

20:39 <chiel> I am forced to code php at work

20:39 <chiel> but in my free time, I can escape to ruby :)

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20:39 <canton7> I'd point you to this http://hyperpolyglot.org/scripting but it doesn't really do ruby justice, as it doesn't mention blocks, which are arguably one of ruby's greatest features

20:40 <Penguin_Gab> taking a look now canton7, thanks

20:41 <Penguin_Gab> im asking because i've been a php developer for over 3+ years and getting increasingly frustrated with it

20:41 <Hanmac> "one block to each them all"

20:41 <Penguin_Gab> picked up and played with ruby for 2+ days and im seriously thinking of migrating

20:41 <Penguin_Gab> not sure if its a good idea

20:42 <canton7> I can almost promise you you won't even think about going back (unless you need cheap, ubiquitous hosting, which is about the only thing PHP's good for). At the very least, learn ruby better, then decide

20:44 Asher [Asher!~asher@98.158.127.150] has joined #ruby

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20:45 <chiel> and read why's guide :)

20:45 <chiel> it is awesome

20:46 <Penguin_Gab> ah ok

20:46 <Penguin_Gab> thanks guys

20:46 <Penguin_Gab> will continue to grok it

20:46 <Penguin_Gab> why's poigniant guide is written like he was on drugs or something

20:47 <Penguin_Gab> was he?

20:47 <wmoxam> Penguin_Gab: yes

20:47 <wmoxam> he actually died after he OD'd on chunky bacon

20:47 zastaph [zastaph!~uid@unaffiliated/zastaph] has joined #ruby

20:47 <Penguin_Gab> !!

20:48 <Penguin_Gab> gosh u guys are the wittiest people i've ever met online

20:48 <internet_user> Anyone know if why's poigniant guide is ruby 1.9-compatible?

20:48 <Penguin_Gab> i should migrate from the PHP community to ruby

20:48 <Penguin_Gab> NAO

20:48 <internet_user> since I heard there are a lot of changes between 1.8 and 1.9

20:48 <Penguin_Gab> php is full of 15 year old idiots

20:49 burgestrand [burgestrand!~burgestra@h-45-63.a155.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #ruby

20:49 <canton7> yeah, that's PHP's main user-base :S

20:49 <wmoxam> Penguin_Gab: ruby is full of 25 year old idiots

20:49 <wmoxam> so you'd be movin' on up

20:49 <burgestrand> I’m not 25 :(

20:49 <wmoxam> olz

20:51 kreantos [kreantos!~kreantos@77.119.66.223.wireless.dyn.drei.com] has joined #ruby

20:51 <Penguin_Gab> lol

20:51 <Penguin_Gab> how old are u guys? i'm 22

20:51 <wmoxam> I'm 15

20:52 <Penguin_Gab> internet_user yes it is compatible

20:52 <Penguin_Gab> serious?

20:52 <Penguin_Gab> wow when i was 15 i didn't know how to use the computer other than porn

20:52 * epochwolf|vps is 14, and female

20:52 <epochwolf|vps> :P

20:52 <Penguin_Gab> cool

20:53 * epochwolf|vps gets immediately pegged as an fbi agent.

20:53 * shevy shoots down epochwolf|vps.

20:53 <burgestrand> Naw, you just get the awkward silence

20:53 <wmoxam> what's a porn?

20:53 <epochwolf|vps> wmoxam: it's awesome

20:53 * shevy shoots at wmoxam as well.

20:53 esufan [esufan!~nekid@c-24-6-170-1.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #ruby

20:53 <burgestrand> wmoxam: http://notpron.org/notpron/

20:54 <shevy> wmoxam it is the foundation of the world wide web

20:54 <Penguin_Gab> google 'Two Girls One Cup'

20:54 Hanmac [Hanmac!~hanmac@p50845366.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #ruby

20:54 <wmoxam> sounds confusing

20:54 <epochwolf|vps> Do not google that

20:54 <Penguin_Gab> lol

20:54 <shevy> google 'How to get rich with Ruby'

20:54 <esufan> 2 girls 10 cups

20:54 carlyle [carlyle!~carlyle@216.133.69.20] has joined #ruby

20:54 <epochwolf|vps> wmoxam: porn = nekkid people, screwing eachother

20:54 virunga [virunga!~virunga@151.64.44.17] has joined #ruby

20:54 <shevy> lies!

20:55 <apeiros_> epochwolf|vps: they do home improvement?

20:55 <wmoxam> epochwolf|vps: oh, my youth pastor isn't going to liek that

20:55 <apeiros_> screws n stuff…

20:55 <epochwolf|vps> apeiros_: only as a backdrop

20:55 <epochwolf|vps> wmoxam: are you catholic?

20:55 <epochwolf|vps> if you are, you can ask the father about it and he'll be happy to discuss it with you

20:56 <shevy> Penguin_Gab the reason why there are so many young people using php is because (a) PHP is in essence fairly easy to learn and get started quickly (b) you see your results "online" quickly and (c) you get tempted by easy, early money that way!

20:56 <Penguin_Gab> lol

20:56 <Penguin_Gab> shevy : true that

20:56 <shevy> look at ruby before rails

20:56 <burgestrand> And it’s easy to find cheap or even free hosts

20:56 <esufan> im using ruby so i dont have to be a doctor

20:56 <canton7> shevy, also extremely common, cheap shared hosting, and amazing docs

20:56 supergiantrobot [supergiantrobot!~supergian@cpe-174-097-169-208.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #ruby

20:56 <esufan> my goal

20:56 <shevy> a sad sad small group of enthusiastic people

20:56 <Penguin_Gab> shevy : but what advantages does ruby have over php in the long run? curious

20:56 <shevy> though I think the people using rails are on average older than the average php guy

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20:56 <Penguin_Gab> the community of php is so bad

20:56 <wmoxam> shevy: we weren't "sad"

20:56 <Penguin_Gab> ic

20:56 <wmoxam> sheesh

20:56 <shevy> Penguin_Gab, the language itself has a 10000 superior design in everything

20:57 <Penguin_Gab> tons of procedural code

20:57 <shevy> I mean ruby has. PHP just stinks

20:57 <Penguin_Gab> confusing as hell

20:57 <Penguin_Gab> ic

20:57 <shevy> everything that can be done in PHP can be done in ruby with less lines of code and clearer

20:57 <chiel> gotta love all the functions floating around in global space, as well ;D

20:57 <burgestrand> except for default values for instance varialbes

20:57 <burgestrand> :p

20:57 <Penguin_Gab> how about the killer app - Rails? can u tell me more about it?

20:57 <norm> everything you can do i can do better

20:57 <Penguin_Gab> lol

20:57 <shevy> hmm

20:57 <chiel> rails to me is like a bunch of magic, but I don't know enough to actually judge it

20:58 <Penguin_Gab> uh huh

20:58 <shevy> rails is way too colossal

20:58 <chiel> i'm using sinatra at the moment. but once I have time, I would like to dive into Rack itsself

20:58 <Hanmac> IMO rails looks sometimes a bit ugly ...

20:58 <chiel> thing is, when I started with ruby, I was like... I want to learn ruby, not rails.

20:58 <shevy> yeah chiel same here

20:58 carlyle__ [carlyle__!~carlyle@70.43.205.70.nw.nuvox.net] has joined #ruby

20:58 <burgestrand> chiel: rack is not much to dive into, it’s a proc that takes a hash and returns a triple :p

20:58 <Penguin_Gab> hmm

20:58 <chiel> sinatra doesn't really coerce you into using a certain mindset

20:58 <Hanmac> and users confuse rails with ruby

20:59 <shevy> true

20:59 nonotza [nonotza!~nonotza@66.246.94.130] has joined #ruby

20:59 <canton7> I spent a few weeks playing with rails -- even got the book! My conclusion was that, as long as you want to do what it likes doing, life is extremely easy. Once you start trying to do something which it doesn't like doing, life's hell. Also, the learning curve's fairly steep -- there's probably a dead simple way to achieve what you're trying, but it's not always obvious what that way is

20:59 <chiel> whereas with rails kinda does do that, to a degree

20:59 <burgestrand> rails is not for beginners any more, but many walk into it thinking the opposite

20:59 <canton7> sinatra, on the other hand, is much more like CI or Fuel for PHP -- a set of tools, and the flexibility to do exactly what you want to do

20:59 <chiel> burgestrand: yeah, perhaps. but when I started with ruby (coming from php), it was very confusing to me I had to start my own server etc etc

20:59 <chiel> and sinatra took care of all of that for me

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21:00 <burgestrand> chiel: yeah I know, had the same thing, all I wanted to do starting ruby is go to localhost/index.rb :p

21:00 <chiel> now that I am more used to that frame of mind, it'll be easier to dig into rack, as well.

21:00 <chiel> burgestrand: yeah, know that feeling.. :)

21:00 <shevy> canton7, I bought two rails book in total

21:00 <chiel> so yeah, in that sense, sinatra helped me a lot

21:00 <shevy> ended up reading the first up to page ... 97 or something, the other one... to page 16

21:00 <canton7> shevy, dedication!

21:00 <Penguin_Gab> LOL burgestrand : same here. localhost/ruby.rb

21:00 <shevy> I got rid of both years ago

21:00 <canton7> haha!

21:00 <chiel> since it took that stuff out of the way, and enabled me to focus on learning ruby as a language.

21:00 <shevy> way to waste money :(

21:00 <Hanmac> i have seen in a bookstore a whole wall full of PHP books ... and only one little over rails, ... and no book for ruby itself

21:00 <Penguin_Gab> lol

21:01 <chiel> but yeah, Rack is definitely on my list.

21:01 <Penguin_Gab> hmm

21:01 <burgestrand> Hanmac: same for me, most ruby books you have to order where I live

21:01 <shevy> in the past I said php had the better online documentation, but this is no longer true

21:01 <Penguin_Gab> so Rack and Sinatra.. let me note that down

21:01 musl [musl!~mike@li44-23.members.linode.com] has joined #ruby

21:01 <shevy> Penguin_Gab, see, the documentation here is not so bad http://ruby-doc.org/core-1.9.3/Bignum.html

21:01 <canton7> there's also padrino, which is MVC on top of sinatra, and Monk, which provides some nice structures for sinatra projects

21:01 <chiel> Penguin_Gab: basically, sinatra is a dsl on top of rack

21:01 <Penguin_Gab> try going to any PHP forums and ask questions. You will be 'awe-struck'

21:01 <chiel> so sinatra does some work for you

21:01 <shevy> you could even give hints to other people at "Add New Comment"

21:01 <Penguin_Gab> i see

21:01 <Penguin_Gab> lol

21:02 <chiel> but there's a LOT of projects built on top of rack

21:02 dv310p3r [dv310p3r!~dv310p3r@216.199.155.226.nw.nuvox.net] has joined #ruby

21:02 <canton7> hmm, I think PHP docs are still better than ruby's, but they *need* to be. I've relied on extensive docs to figure out how to use PHP functions, but ruby's functions are intuitive and just seem to do exactly what you want...

21:02 <chiel> yeah, agreed

21:02 <shevy> but canton7!!! it's beautiful!

21:02 <chiel> i like the way that php has examples with EVERYTHING. :)

21:02 rramsden [rramsden!~rramsden@s64-180-62-209.bc.hsia.telus.net] has joined #ruby

21:03 <chiel> and user comments are really nice as well over there

21:03 <wmoxam> chiel: often they are bad examples

21:03 <chiel> usually there's someone that has already done what you are looking for

21:03 <chiel> wmoxam: yes, but they give you a starting point

21:03 <wmoxam> or even dangerous examples

21:03 <canton7> definitely. But then, you often need the comments and examples to figure out how to use the damn thing

21:03 <wmoxam> they encourage cargo culting

21:03 <chiel> but as canton7 pointed out, with ruby you don't really need all that stuff

21:03 <shevy> look at the documentation about "if" in php http://www.php.net/manual/en/control-structures.if.php

21:03 <chiel> it's intuitive

21:03 <shevy> it's ugly!

21:03 vraa [vraa!~vraa@h224.68.89.75.dynamic.ip.windstream.net] has joined #ruby

21:03 <chiel> haha, never looked something like that up.. :P

21:03 <canton7> I mean, it would be nice if Ruby had that level of docs, for sure. But it isn't needed in the same way that PHP needs it

21:04 <shevy> I think python has the best online docu these days

21:04 <Penguin_Gab> lol

21:04 <shevy> http://docs.python.org/tutorial/interpreter.html#interactive-mode

21:04 <shevy> it's like reading a book :)

21:04 <wmoxam> heh, the 'if' docs example has the sort of comments I'm talking about

21:04 <shevy> ruby should steal that idea

21:04 <wmoxam> "Be careful when you chain inline "if" : "

21:05 <shevy> yeah wmoxam it's... quite a lot of line noise though, more comments that page content hehe

21:05 quest88 [quest88!~quest88@12.181.53.123] has joined #ruby

21:05 <shevy> inline if?

21:05 <wmoxam> more like "If you ever chain an inline if I'll cut your goddamn throat"

21:05 <canton7> compound inline if? :P

21:05 <shevy> what is that

21:05 <wmoxam> condition ? sopmething : something_else

21:05 <shevy> puts 'foo' if 5 > 4

21:05 <shevy> ?

21:05 <shevy> ah

21:05 <canton7> well, it refers to ternary operator: a > b ? 'yes' : 'no'

21:06 <wmoxam> shevy: http://www.php.net/manual/en/control-structures.if.php#103202

21:06 <wmoxam> canton7: yes

21:06 kennethreitz [kennethreitz!~kennethre@204.14.152.118] has joined #ruby

21:06 <wmoxam> that's the terminology

21:06 <wmoxam> conclusion: "So, if you want to chain inline "if" you have to use parentesis on each test"

21:06 <wmoxam> lolololol

21:06 <wmoxam> GREAT COMMENT! ++++++ WILL FOLLOW ADVICE

21:07 <shevy> hehe

21:07 <wmoxam> there's no comment moderation

21:07 <wmoxam> so there's no way a newb can seperate good advice from bad

21:07 <esufan> whoa i'm installing sinatra

21:07 freelanceful [freelanceful!~jamesfend@c-71-228-225-167.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has joined #ruby

21:08 <wmoxam> it's a terrible idea that always gets touted as a php advantage

21:08 <shevy> esufan tell me more, how do you feel

21:08 confounds [confounds!~confounds@208.113.48.180] has joined #ruby

21:08 <esufan> happy that I can click a url and see output

21:08 <chiel> wmoxam: yeah, you are right

21:08 <chiel> esufan: lol :)

21:08 <chiel> when I started with sinatra I had some trouble getting stuff I simply printed to show up :P

21:09 <chiel> but now I just directed STDOUT and STDERR to a logfile

21:09 <shevy> wmoxam well, in ruby I find it quite simple... the more you write in ruby, the better you get (logically, in anything you do anyway...), but the only way to really learn ruby is to write ruby code anyway (which is also logical, but often newcomers read boring books or online things, and wait for a long time before they write serious ruby code)

21:09 <chiel> = problem solved :P

21:09 <freelanceful> hey guys... I'm writing out my cucumber tests and have a question on how you normally group em. I have milestones that pretty much: add, edit, fund, and release payments. Should I put all these under one .feature file and make them all into scenarios? or should they all be a feature itself?

21:10 <esufan> how do i escape sinatra

21:10 <esufan> in cmd

21:10 <shevy> esufan lol

21:10 <Penguin_Gab> what is the most badass thing you ever built in Ruby (+Rails)?

21:10 <Penguin_Gab> Ctrl Alt Del

21:10 <canton7> ctrl-C

21:11 <chiel> esufan: ctrl-C is generic for stopping a running process

21:11 <chiel> same with like tailing logfiles or whatever

21:11 <chiel> Penguin_Gab: not much tbh. I'm still very much learning

21:11 <esufan> i see

21:11 <chiel> but I've started an open source project (mostly in JS) with ruby.

21:12 <chiel> so hopefully people will point out what a retard I am

21:12 <chiel> and teach me better ruby

21:12 <Gate> freelanceful: By convention you group them by "feature" so I would consider payments a single feature

21:12 <freelanceful> Gate: thanks!

21:12 <canton7> I've started doing all my shell scripting in ruby -- backups programs, general glue, etc. Also done odd misc projects (asset manager for sinatra, sudoku solver, git todo manager, etc)

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21:14 <Penguin_Gab> hmm

21:16 <Hanmac> Penguin_Gab: many stuff, i "ported" an GUI engine (CEGUI) to ruby, that was my biggest thing ... and i try to write an RPGMaker in ruby

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21:17 <shevy> Hanmac cool. is that on github?

21:17 codefriar [codefriar!~codefriar@cpe-098-026-012-134.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #ruby

21:18 <shevy> canton7 yeah, same here.

21:18 <shevy> I always hated writing shell scripts

21:18 <codefriar> Sadly, though I've required 'bundler/setup' and required 'foo' where foo is the name of a gem in the gemfile and gemfile.lock, *and* I've run bundle install, for some reason my script can't find gem foo. Any ideas on how to fix that ?

21:19 n8ji [n8ji!~n8ji@c-24-20-239-11.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #ruby

21:19 <canton7> if you require bundler/setup, you don't require any of the gems yourself, iirc

21:19 <canton7> aah, or maybe you do. my bad

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21:19 <Penguin_Gab> Hanmac : coolios

21:20 rickmasta [rickmasta!~rickmasta@pool-71-183-247-164.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #ruby

21:20 <Penguin_Gab> Hanmac : git it! please

21:20 <codefriar> canton7: sadly not requiring the gem throws an unknown Constant

21:20 <canton7> codefriar, have you got a small example we can play with?

21:20 <codefriar> canton7: sure thing, let me gist it.

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21:22 <codefriar> canton7: https://gist.github.com/4c9b3721d9cc48e8c4c3

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21:22 <canton7> ta

21:23 <codefriar> canton7: ?

21:23 <canton7> british for "thanks"

21:23 <codefriar> ah

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21:26 <canton7> codefriar, ah I don't have a mac, and control_tower appears to be mac-only

21:27 <codefriar> canton7: yeah, it's a macruby thing, but the deal isn't neccesarrily with control_tower. Hit up nokogiri or whatever.

21:27 <codefriar> canton7: it feels like bundler/setup isn't able to set the load path

21:27 <canton7> is it all gems which are failing to load?

21:27 Hanmac [Hanmac!~hanmac@p50845366.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #ruby

21:27 <codefriar> yep

21:27 <codefriar> sinatra is the other example

21:27 <Hanmac> my GDM plays ugly games with me :P

21:28 djr [djr!~djr@dsl-208-196.madisontelco.com] has joined #ruby

21:28 <shevy> your girlfriend display manager?

21:28 brngardner [brngardner!~brngardne@c-98-192-3-166.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #ruby

21:29 <Hanmac> no ... my GDM kicked me out of the session and then the network was not working :/

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21:31 <canton7> codefriar, hmm can't replicate I'm afraid, using gems that were pre-installed on the system, and without

21:32 <Hanmac> shevy: there is my cegui gem https://github.com/Hanmac/libcegui-ruby but it is in developing so there could be bad errors

21:32 <codefriar> drat

21:32 <shevy> cool lots of .cpp

21:33 <Hanmac> i hope you like my coding style

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21:36 <codefriar> Hanmac: what's libcegui ?

21:36 <Hanmac> libcegui or CEGUI is a ingame GUI system

21:37 <tommylommykins> hmmm

21:37 * tommylommykins is hable accessing documentation for ENglish at ruby-doc.org :s

21:37 <tommylommykins> having trouble

21:38 <tommylommykins> hmm, nmost modules, in fact

21:39 * Hanmac sings "everyone hates swiq" :P

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21:44 <mxweas|away> so URI.parse fails with URLs that have spaces. Before I was just adding URI.encode to the url to escape the spaces, but URI.encode is now deprecated. What should I use instead? CGI::escape won't work because it escapes the slashes in http://

21:44 <zxiest> Hey :-)

21:44 <zxiest> Any way to unfreeze a var?

21:46 <shevy> zxiest sadly no

21:47 <shevy> .freeze is so totally useless :(

21:47 <zxiest> shevy erm... cool.. Thanks again today :-)

21:48 <shevy> zxiest http://ruby-doc.org/core-1.9.3/Object.html#method-i-freeze

21:48 <shevy> "There is no way to unfreeze a frozen object."

21:48 <shevy> :(

21:48 <shevy> totally fucking useless!

21:48 <zxiest> duh

21:49 <zxiest> I'm getting arrays from the cache that I would like to add values to...

21:49 <zxiest> I'm having to copy them to other arrays

21:49 <zxiest> Append to new array

21:49 <zxiest> And add back to cache.. Stupid

21:51 <shevy> when a task seems stupid

21:51 <shevy> there are often more ways to solve it in ruby!

21:51 <shevy> and some of them could be better

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21:53 <zxiest> shevy very possible... but sometimes certain data structures should behave naturally

21:53 <zxiest> shevy why would someone freeze an array in the cache?

21:53 <zxiest> You can solve threading issue in a different way

21:54 <zxiest> But freezing a data structure in the cache doesn't make much sense

21:54 <wallerdev> wouldn't unfreezing an object defeat the purpose of freezing it

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21:55 <zxiest> wallerdev nope... You can freeze something in order to warn upon unfreezing

21:56 <zxiest> wallerdev I would freeze somewhere. Unfreeze somewhere else then refreeze.

21:56 Nss [Nss!~nss@host224-54-dynamic.50-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #ruby

21:56 <wallerdev> yeah but if you freeze it you're saying its not going to change and you shouldn't change it. if you want to change it later then why freeze it in the first place

21:57 <zxiest> wallerdev this is not how I defined freeze

21:58 <zxiest> I freeze something because I don't want it to be changed by mistake

21:58 <Hanmac> shevy have you looked at my code?

21:58 <zxiest> I would unfreeze it when I want to change it, then I would freeze back.

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21:59 <wallerdev> whats to stop you from mistakenly unfreezing it and changing it then?

22:00 <wallerdev> seems like you're just adding an extra step

22:00 <zxiest> wallerdev because you're writing "unfreeze", doing something and then refreezing. It's like a confirmation step.

22:00 <zxiest> wallerdev if it's a project only one person's working on, yes.. there's no problem

22:01 <wallerdev> alright, well if you really wanted to do that you could set it up yourself

22:01 <wallerdev> but i don't think thats what freeze was meant for

22:01 kf8a [kf8a!~kf8a@dslfw4.mei.net] has joined #ruby

22:01 <zxiest> wallerdev not really, it's like saying: confirming passwords is useless

22:01 <zxiest> yes, it's useless when you don't make mistakes

22:01 <zxiest> but the reality is, we make mistakes

22:02 <wallerdev> i never said what you were doing was useless

22:02 cousine [cousine!~cousine@196.221.56.204] has joined #ruby

22:02 <Boohbah> login:

22:03 <zxiest> I don't mind criticism.. don't worry.. I just think there was something useful with the freezing/unfreezing concept :-)

22:03 <shevy> Hanmac I am too scared of C++ :)

22:03 <shevy> i just looked a little at a few of the .cpp files

22:03 <shevy> but I am too lost in C++

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22:13 <any-key> ugh C++

22:14 kisp11 [kisp11!~kisp@g231208214.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #ruby

22:14 <Hanmac> the good thing if i write ruby-extentions i am not bound to C alone

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22:28 <jesseangell> Does anyone have their CI publish a gem that passed the build to their own gem repo automatically?

22:28 looopy_ [looopy_!~looopy@c-68-34-92-100.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #ruby

22:28 <jesseangell> trying to figure out the most logical way to do such a thing

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22:39 <Retistic> would shortest_distance ||= distance work if distance was a float. distance seems to be replacing shortest_distance even if it exists

22:40 <wallerdev> Retistic: should work fine

22:40 florentg [florentg!~florentg@190.237.7.214] has joined #ruby

22:41 <Divinite_laptop> Retistic: Agreed. Should work well :)

22:41 <wallerdev> it's the same as shortest_distance || (shortest_distance = distance) so as long as shortest_distance is truthy you should be ok

22:42 <Retistic> it seems to work in console, but not in my code :(

22:42 <wallerdev> sounds like you have a bug

22:43 <Retistic> this is returning nil https://gist.github.com/1603613

22:43 ChampS666 [ChampS666!~ChampS@p54B4DC0C.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #ruby

22:43 <Retistic> and shortest_distance is being replaced after line 7 every time by distance

22:45 <Hanmac> you need shortest_distance defined outside of each

22:45 <wallerdev> shortest_distance goes out of scope

22:45 <Hanmac> haha faster :P

22:45 <wallerdev> lol

22:46 <wallerdev> i need a new website to work on

22:46 <Retistic> do i need to define job as well then?

22:47 <wallerdev> yeah you can set job = nil a the top, and then put job at the end

22:47 mengu [mengu!~mengu@unaffiliated/mengu] has joined #ruby

22:47 <wallerdev> also ||= nil is pretty useless

22:47 <Retistic> wallerdev: i did it because i was getting method undefined errors

22:48 <wallerdev> yeah because the variable wasn't defined in that scope

22:48 <wallerdev> so it thought you were calling a job method

22:49 <Retistic> i thought variables were dynamically instantiated in ruby and somehow scope was taken car of

22:49 <Retistic> care*

22:49 <wallerdev> scope isn't magic, it has to know when it can get rid of variables

22:50 <Retistic> gotcha, can i do float job; at the top then

22:50 <wallerdev> you don't need to define types

22:50 <wallerdev> so you could do job = nil or job = 0.0

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22:55 <Retistic> wallerdev: when you say website, do you mean rails?

22:55 savage-_ [savage-_!~savage-@209.118.197.220] has joined #ruby

22:56 <Retistic> by the way, thank you very much for the help, its working now

22:56 <wallerdev> yeah i might do it in rails if it calls for that

22:56 <wallerdev> just need a new side project since i sold my last one

22:57 <Retistic> what was your last one?

22:57 <wallerdev> http://www.acepolls.com

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22:58 <Retistic> ah cool, was that rails?

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22:59 <wallerdev> yeah it was rails when i sold it

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22:59 <wallerdev> it started as php in 2006

23:00 <Retistic> the project links at wallerdiv.com don't work :(

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23:00 <wallerdev> yeah lol

23:00 <wallerdev> its hard to work on a site about yourself

23:00 <wallerdev> gets a little boring

23:00 <wallerdev> the top 2 should ork

23:00 <wallerdev> work

23:00 <FiestaSmash> hey, need to create a connection with a server on rails

23:01 <FiestaSmash> possible without any gems?

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23:01 <wallerdev> FiestaSmash: http://www.ruby-doc.org/stdlib-1.9.3/libdoc/socket/rdoc/TCPSocket.html

23:01 <any-key> #rails would be a more helpful place to ask

23:01 <FiestaSmash> aka establish a tcp or udp connection on a certain address on a certain port, i just need to know if ruby could request one

23:01 <any-key> ah well that works too

23:01 <FiestaSmash> ah, thanks wallerdev

23:01 <FiestaSmash> brb

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23:04 <Retistic> wallerdev: do you do freelance work

23:04 <Retistic> ?

23:05 <wallerdev> no not really

23:05 <wallerdev> sometimes projects that take an hour or something

23:05 <wallerdev> but i have a regular job so i don't have much time for freelancing haha

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23:20 <FiestaSmash> ohey, I almost forgot to ask

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23:20 <FiestaSmash> I'm going to be heading to college soon, I want to know, in your fields of work in Computer Science, do you have enough time to do your own projects?

23:20 <FiestaSmash> Or does work consume most of your life?

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23:21 <wallerdev> depends where you're working

23:21 <jesseangell> FiestaSmash: a good job will give you enough time to do your own projects because they'll recognize that by doing so you'll learn even more and be a better employee

23:22 <jesseangell> FiestaSmash: programmers that never play or program for fun tend to be very close minded and only know the toolset they need for their job - and as a result - can never really recommend something better

23:22 <jesseangell> just my opinion

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23:23 <FiestaSmash> ah, thanks. I really was considering if it would have me up day and nights working on tedious systems only suggested or even needed by my employer

23:23 <jesseangell> FiestaSmash: all employers are different. find one that'll make you happy.

23:24 <emocakes> FiestaSmash

23:24 <emocakes> always have enough time

23:24 <emocakes> if you want

23:24 <FiestaSmash> Ah, so I shouldnt expect that as the default policy of every employer :(

23:24 <emocakes> the only way to learn is to play around

23:24 <emocakes> well my employer for instance

23:25 <FiestaSmash> ?

23:26 <wallerdev> some environments like startups you can end up working quite a few more hours than other jobs which can leave you without a lot of time for personal projects. but hopefully you're working on something that you can consider your own project :)

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23:27 <FiestaSmash> No, that's the thing, I've been working on my own projects since I was 11, I'm only afraid I may have to give that up in order to get the career that I love which also involve my past projects (ironically)

23:28 <emocakes> eerm sorry

23:28 <emocakes> distaction FiestaSmash

23:28 <emocakes> my employer is cool

23:28 <FiestaSmash> Basically put, stop fiddling with computers on my own time to fiddle with computers on an employers time, full time.

23:28 <emocakes> i can work from whatever country i want

23:28 <FiestaSmash> ah, its alright.

23:28 <emocakes> the best thing about being a programmer is you can essentialy work when you want

23:28 <emocakes> if you want to

23:28 <emocakes> try not to get a job per se

23:28 <emocakes> freelance

23:28 <wallerdev> you shouldn't have to give that up and you should make sure you don't or you'll probably fall behind in terms of learning

23:28 <emocakes> get a job in a start up company

23:29 <FiestaSmash> how does that pay..?

23:29 <emocakes> pays well enough for the flexibility

23:29 <emocakes> you spend less when you are in a different country every month

23:29 <FiestaSmash> neat!

23:29 <emocakes> i spent alot more living at home

23:29 <wallerdev> most of the startups in the bay area are paying pretty well, you can ask them if they have funding and things like that

23:29 <emocakes> yes, startups in the bay are the place to be

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23:30 <emocakes> i know a few people there, say its a gold mine

23:30 <emocakes> im planning on heading to the US by the end of the year

23:30 <wallerdev> yeah i think it'd be cool to move out there someday

23:31 <any-key> psh Kansas is where all the exciting startups are

23:31 <wallerdev> lol

23:31 <FiestaSmash> ok, sounds like I'm on the right track

23:31 <any-key> as well as Oklahoma

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23:31 <wallerdev> yeah it sounds like you're ahead of a lot of people if you're thinking about that already FiestaSmash

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23:32 <emocakes> note FiestaSmash

23:32 <emocakes> i couldnt stand university

23:32 <emocakes> i was doing software engineering

23:32 <emocakes> and ended up leaving

23:32 <emocakes> it was faarrrr too basic

23:33 <any-key> should've done CS

23:33 <FiestaSmash> haha, that's like the 3rd story I've been told about leaving a university.

23:33 <wallerdev> yeah university was a little slow for me as well, but i learned some important things and graduated :)

23:33 <wallerdev> so +1 for graduating

23:34 <FiestaSmash> a or an... huh. "an university" doesn't sound grammatically correct either. lol

23:34 <tdmackey> :p

23:34 <any-key> don't listen to tdmackey he's full of shit

23:34 <any-key> ;)

23:34 <tdmackey> :(

23:34 <FiestaSmash> :)

23:35 <any-key> tdmackey: didn't know you hung around here

23:35 <tdmackey> always and forever

23:35 <any-key> well then

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23:59 <gorgapor> what's the most concise and readable way to test whether a value is not nil or an empty string?

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