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<banisterfiend> gorgapor: is this in pure ruby or railsy type context?
<gorgapor> actually, i'd like to know the answer in both places
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<wallerdev> gorgapor: i think what banisterfiend was referring to was that in rails theres the blank? method
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<wallerdev> which returns true on nil and empty strings
<freelanceful> any recommendations for setting up a ratings system using 5 stars?
<wallerdev> it also returns true on false and empty arrays
<banisterfiend> wallerdev: waller waller woohoo
<wallerdev> which could be an issue
<wallerdev> depending on what you want
<banisterfiend> walla walla
<wallerdev> walla walla bing bang
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<gorgapor> wallerdev, thank you. so if i wanted to do this elegantly in pure ruby, what's my best option?
<banisterfiend> wallerdev: were you teased mercilessly as a child
<wallerdev> no haha
<wallerdev> gorgapor: depends on the length of your variable name haha, (x == nil || x.empty?) is pretty short
<gorgapor> okay great, thanks
<wallerdev> x == '' might be a character or two shorter
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<wallerdev> and you could do [nil, ''].any? { |v| x == v }
<wallerdev> thats probably not easy to read though
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<jsonperl> im writing an internal gem for a project so that I can wrap up some code we're writing in C
<jsonperl> so I'm using bundler with the gem specified with a :path, but bundler doesnt compile native extensions for paths
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<jsonperl> as far as I can tell, i'd need to build and then install the gem to the system then to use it?
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<brownies> anyone here can help with an activeRecord question?
<brownies> it is apparently too complicated for other channels...
<brownies> how can i run this query against my User model? SELECT name, COUNT(name) as repeated_names FROM users WHERE repeated_names > 1;
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<srid> ruby quiz: can you simplify/shorten this further? https://gist.github.com/1604003
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<jsonperl> wouldn't you want to group by name
<banisterfiend> jsonperl: wnat to group what by name?
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<jsonperl> yes
<jsonperl> you're looking for users that have the same name?
<wallerdev> srid: you don't need to escape : or - in your regexes
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<jsonperl> (rails question btw, prolly the wrong channel)
<jsonperl> Users.select('users.*, count(1) as quantity').group(:name).having('quantity > 1')
<jsonperl> somethin like that?
<FiestaSmash> ok, so I'm using ruby's socket on rails, and honestly, is there any way to try the connection 3 times and timeout if a connection could not be established?
<jsonperl> checkout the Timeout library maybe
<jsonperl> ruby core lib
<wallerdev> srid: you could also combine your gsubs
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<srid> wallerdev: oh, how?
<banisterfiend> jsonperl: what the fuck is prolly
<wallerdev> k.gsub(/\s|-/, '_')
<jsonperl> Timeout::timeout(0.5) { do some crap }
<wallerdev> srid: also split defaults to "\n" so you can do d.split.map
<srid> i see. thanks
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<FiestaSmash> ok heres the issue
<FiestaSmash> im trying to connect to a host, but rather than returning false
<FiestaSmash> rails is returning a fatal error
<FiestaSmash> I simply want to return false if the host refuses the connection
<FiestaSmash> rather than a global error
<jsonperl> using what?
<jsonperl> for the connection
<jsonperl> begin
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<FiestaSmash> tcp socket
<jsonperl> return TCPSocket.new("localhost", 1234)
<jsonperl> rescue
<jsonperl> # do something friendly
<jsonperl> end
<jsonperl> rescue from it and do what you feel is appropriate
<FiestaSmash> im encapsulating the client code with timeout
<jsonperl> also you can retry from the resuce
<jsonperl> rescue
<FiestaSmash> like so?
<jsonperl> maybe increment a count and use the retry keyword
<jsonperl> look at what i typed above
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<jsonperl> FiestaSmash: did you get it?
<FiestaSmash> Yeah, I understand rescue now ^^
<FiestaSmash> It's even printing my error out! neat.
<jsonperl> ha
<jsonperl> sweet
<jsonperl> is it doing what you need? want me to take a look?
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<FiestaSmash> Oh yeah, I want it to test if a certain host is alive- which it does, and I'm going to have to write a hosting application later, perhaps in rub- oh wait
<FiestaSmash> one more question
<FiestaSmash> What do you reccomend for ruby on rails desktop application deployment?
<FiestaSmash> I'll have to distribute servers to people, and on top of that, I don't want them to have to go through the complex installation process, OR even see and modify the code to the application
<FiestaSmash> well, rails server based applications
<jsonperl> hmm... donno
<jsonperl> bundler and gems makes things preeety easy
<jsonperl> you can hand em a prebuilt vm to run
<jsonperl> if you need something completely hands off
<FiestaSmash> I mean, I want to avoid having users having to have a ruby installation, especially of a certain version
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<jsonperl> no experience
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<FiestaSmash> ack, ill figure it out
<FiestaSmash> I don't want to have to transition between C# or some other language, I'm not sure for laziness, but I want to keep everything in the backend in rails for consistency
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<FiestaSmash> still new to rails, when I use boolean returns, is it just true/false or return true/false?
<jsonperl> either
<jsonperl> ruby always returns the last value
<jsonperl> you can be more explicit by saying "return false" if you'd like
<jsonperl> but "false" is the same
<FiestaSmash> ok, it wasnt working right with the true false, so I converted it to 0 and 1, and let the function decide the meaning of 0 and 1
<FiestaSmash> but apparently, it's backwards
<FiestaSmash> 1 is false and 0 true...
<FiestaSmash> wait
<FiestaSmash> Ack, confusion, the one awkward moment when the program doesn't do what you need it to..
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<FiestaSmash> ah, ok, seems to be kosher now
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<FiestaSmash> hey, do you think it would be extremely demanding bandwidth wise
<FiestaSmash> If my rails application is constantly checking if servers are alive for every user that loads a page?
<FiestaSmash> agh, hold on
<FiestaSmash> agh, how would I broadcast my rails app to my public IP address?
<FiestaSmash> I've tried http://public_ip:3000
<wallerdev> just turn off your firewall on port 3000
<FiestaSmash> giving it a shot. I thought there was an exception made for public networks
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<wallerdev> it could be something with your ISP as well
<FiestaSmash> ack, it is
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<FiestaSmash> oddly enough there is an exception
<FiestaSmash> I wanted to wait until the app was completely de-bugged until I uploaded it to my actual host
<FiestaSmash> and I can easily connect via network IP
<FiestaSmash> *LAN
<wallerdev> is there a reason you need to access it from a public ip?
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<FiestaSmash> Well, I needed to ask a question to you all, but it's a very complex question
<wallerdev> ah
<wallerdev> complex questions suck
<FiestaSmash> something that would require a visual reference (what I have so far)
<FiestaSmash> agreed
<wallerdev> especially on IRC, not a lot of people want to put a lot of time into something like that
<FiestaSmash> Ok, I'll try to ask
<FiestaSmash> or not
<wallerdev> so you need to simplify it as much as you can :)
<FiestaSmash> XD
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<FiestaSmash> ok, theres a MasterServer, it checks if game servers are online and hosting
<FiestaSmash> Everytime a user visits a page
<FiestaSmash> It checks about 8 servers
<FiestaSmash> by trying to establish a connection
<FiestaSmash> and if the connection succeeds, the game server is online, and if not, it's not online
<FiestaSmash> my issue is
<FiestaSmash> Would this be too much to ask bandwidth wise?
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<FiestaSmash> My hosting is free, ironically, but supports rails applications.
<wallerdev> connections don't use much bandwidth
<wallerdev> but you should probably just cache the value every few minutes or something
<FiestaSmash> But, it's constantly under Denial of Service attacks so I don't want to do anything too demanding
<FiestaSmash> Ok, thanks
<wallerdev> if you don't get a lot of traffic it won't be much of an issue, but if it gets popular it makes sense to cache it
<FiestaSmash> I remember back, vistapanel disabled my accounts due to a PHP chatroom I made, I can't lose my hosting access just for this
<wallerdev> that way 1000 people visiting in one minute means 8 requests instead of 8000
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<FiestaSmash> I think I may
<FiestaSmash> add some form of Only 3 page requests per 20 seconds
<FiestaSmash> *refreshed
<FiestaSmash> *refreshes
<Boohbah> FiestaSmash: you get what you pay for, in hosting as in all things
<wallerdev> not necessarily
<wallerdev> there are good deals and bad deals
<FiestaSmash> heliohost is the Samaritan of hosting, although of the constant attacks
<FiestaSmash> which may be ended due to some much needed security measures
<Boohbah> wallerdev: there are always exceptions, but statement is generally true
<wallerdev> for sure
<wallerdev> I'm a big fan of linode lately
<FiestaSmash> http://24.30.117.33/PARADIGM/masterserver.png for a visual refrence
<FiestaSmash> wait, is there any other free hosting which offers rails support?
<FiestaSmash> *ruby on rails
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<wallerdev> heroku has a free plan i think
<wallerdev> i forget
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<FiestaSmash> whoa, the whole "forget servers" totally blew my mind into small chunks haha
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<FiestaSmash> Oh I see, almost had me with the $0. turned out to be $0.05 dollars per hour
<wallerdev> ah
<wallerdev> i haven't checked on it in a long time
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<FiestaSmash> hey, thanks for the help, gnight all
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<wallerdev> hm yeah heroku has 750 free hours a month
* hkhalid slaps wallerdev around a bit with a large trout
<wallerdev> which takes the cost down to $0
<wallerdev> so it is free :|
<wallerdev> haha
<wallerdev> hello hkhalid
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<hkhalid> hi wallerdev do you use ruby for game dev of opencv
<wallerdev> no i haven't used ruby for anything game related besides resizing some resources
<wallerdev> banisterfiend has
<wallerdev> I've used opencv with the c api
<hkhalid> why doesnt ruby people make it easy to dev 2d games
<wallerdev> for some image recognition stuff
<wallerdev> hkhalid: it might have something to do with it using a good amount of memory and not being the fastest language and not having a lot of good UI libraries
<Okasu> hkhalid: ruby bad idea for gamedev
<wallerdev> I've seen people try to create games in ruby and switch back to c++ due to things like GC running at random times
<Okasu> too slow
<wallerdev> causing frames to skip
<wallerdev> read an article about it recently on HN
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<shevy> wallerdev, really?
<shevy> on ruby 1.9.x also?
<shevy> hkhalid sadly the problem is
<shevy> making games is way too complicated and time consuming
<shevy> there was rubygame but it was just a lame wrapper around SDL
<wallerdev> banisterfiend started making a game
<wallerdev> i started a game in c++ but had to put it down
<jlogsdon> A rather large problem with game dev in ruby is the fact that *all* floats are objects, on top of the GC. Expensive stuff
<shevy> wallerdev why did you put it down in c++?
<shevy> I mean
<shevy> wallerdev why did you put it down your game?
<shevy> :)
<shevy> argh
<wallerdev> oh
<shevy> man, my brain is not working..
<shevy> I am trying to ask why you stopped. :)
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<wallerdev> it was taking too much time away from my gf and i started losing motivation to finish it
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<celestius> how can i get irb to recognize '.' as a word break character? $COMP_WORDBREAKS doesn't do it, nor does Readline.basic_word_break_characters
<banisterfiend> celestius: what do u mean a word break character
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<celestius> when i ctrl+backarrow (or whatever i have bound to backwards-word) it'll stop at '.'
<celestius> for that matter, why is it that readline inside irb is just a little funny? does it try and attach its own set of keybindings?
<banisterfiend> celestius: are you on macosx?
<celestius> i am banisterfiend
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<banisterfiend> celestius: then it's probably funny because you're not using Readline
<celestius> oh
<banisterfiend> celestius: osx doenst use readline by default
<banisterfiend> it uses something called EditLine
<celestius> i see
<celestius> just inside IRb, or everywhere?
<celestius> cause .inputrc and $COMP_WORDBREAKS work inside bash
<celestius> usually, heh
<celestius> is EditLine a BSD thing?
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<devians> hey guys, im a ruby newb. how do i get {:blah => value} and {:stuff => foo} and turn it into {:blah => value, :stuff => foo}
<wallerdev> Hash#merge
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<BBonifield> i'm trying to figure out how to convert a specific HAML example into ERB. specifically, the `:add_on => :prepend do`. logic in the twitter_bootstrap_form_for. What i have is: http://pastie.org/3176530. The docs give the original: https://github.com/stouset/twitter_bootstrap_form_for
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<Avi_> I'm clearly missing something obvious for this… i don't get why i mseeing invalid date
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<Boohbah> hi, i have a range "aaa".."zzz"
<Boohbah> how can i return a random object from the range?
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<rippa> Boohbah: either convert it to array
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<rippa> or iterate through it and stop on random element
<Boohbah> thanks rippa, array is probably better for this
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<Hanmac1> Boohbah: range.sample
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<rippa> Hanmac: have you tried it?
<rippa> sample is Array method
<Hanmac> hm okay ... i thought it was also in enumerable
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<Boohbah> a = ('aaa'..'zzz').to_a
<Boohbah> puts a[rand(a.length)]
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<atmosx> hello
<Boohbah> hi
<Hanmac> Boohbah: you can change "a[rand(a.length)]" to "a.sample"
<Boohbah> yup, looks prettier with sample
<Boohbah> Hanmac: thanks
<banisterfiend> Hanmac: i wish you would only speak in german, it doesnt matter if people can understand (they'd be satisfied with the interesting looking symbols)
<Hanmac> xD
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<chilversc_> what happens to constants that are not defined in a module?
<rippa> top-level constants
<chilversc_> ah, that's what they're called
<chilversc_> thanks
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<IanV> hiya, can i ask about stubbing/mocking http requests, i currently use WEBrick::HTTPServer
<IanV> how can it be done??
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<chilversc_> so methods arn't considered constants by Module.constants ?
<Hanmac> nope, because methods are not constants
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<chilversc_> I can't help but think `.find_all {|c| c}` looks a little wrong
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<Hanmac> what are you looking for?
<chilversc_> items that have a value, the previous line was .map {|c| /^(.+)Handler$/.match(c)} sort of thing
<kapowaz> are there any known issues with Date and DateTime in ruby 1.9.2 ?
<chilversc_> so it works, it just looks a little odd to me
<kapowaz> I'm just mucking around with some stuff in irb and I'm getting very odd dates
<kapowaz> 1.9.2-p290 :002 > d = DateTime.new
<kapowaz> => #<DateTime: -4712-01-01T00:00:00+00:00 (-1/2,0,2299161)>
<kapowaz> what's that all about?
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<kapowaz> is that just something where it's uninitialised? I had always assumed DateTime.new initialised with the current date and time... maybe that was a wrong assumption...
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<benj__> chilversc_, you could use reject { |c| c.nil? } to be a bit more specific
<rippa> or .compact
<kapowaz> harumph.
<benj__> yeah, or that
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<chilversc_> these filter chains seem to create quite a few arrays?
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<Anderslm> I have a irritating problem when trying to use the PyPi XMLRPC API from Ruby. It works fine from Python, http://wiki.python.org/moin/PyPiXmlRpc . The code i use is: http://pastie.org/3177684 but i get server response 502 Bad Gateway. Do i do something obviuosly wrong?
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<jrgifford> Is setup.rb depreciated/gone? I'm asking because the Ubuntu Ruby Packaging guide says I should use setup.rb, and the github repo is a 404 - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Ruby
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<canton7> jrgifford, hmm, it's not 404-ing for me http://proutils.github.com/setup/
<canton7> ah, the wiki page is. I guess they must have just re-arranged their wiki
<jrgifford> canton7: the github pages is fine. i'm talking about the actual git repo - its linked as https://github.com/proutils/setup, and i can't find another copy...
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<canton7> yeah, odd
<canton7> no idea I'm afraid
<`brendan> morning.. happy friday!
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<visof> ruby treat parallel assignment using lists , isn't this method cost from the performance ?
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<Tinuk> hello all! Anyone having experiences writing a bot for irc in ruby?
<canton7> Tinuk, most beginners, I suspect
<Tinuk> I'm afraid so ...
<Tinuk> I am looking for a proper framework I can use to do some work. Do you have any recommendations?
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<waxjar> cinch is the easiest, imo
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<Tinuk> I have some experience with eggdrop, is there anything similar?
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<rippa> isaac looks good too
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<Tinuk> what about rbot?
<robyurkowski> looking for an IRC bot?
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<Tinuk> yes. Something I can port my old module for eggdrop to.
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<robyurkowski> Tinuk: I have a minimal IRC bot kicking around... http://github.com/robyurkowski/robox2
<robyurkowski> but my suggestion is to use Radar's framework... http://github.com/radar/summer
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* Tinuk hms.
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<Tinuk> fully flegged would be the thing I am looking for. Looks like autumn, rbot and cinch are quite advanced _and_ maintained.
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<robyurkowski> rbot's not bad
<robyurkowski> i found some issues with stability with it a few years ago
<JonnieCache> there's a good one in node as well iirc
<Tinuk> JonnieCache: do zou recall the projects name?
<Tinuk> -z+y
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<JonnieCache> an event loop is a good model for a chatbot
<JonnieCache> oops that was the wrong one its https://github.com/draggor/node-ircbot
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<JonnieCache> this looks good too https://github.com/nodejitsu/kohai
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<Tinuk> JonnieCache: thanks a bunch! I will look into it.
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<mvangala> can I pass command line args to ruby one liners?
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<Mon_Ouie> Yes, e.g. ruby -e 'p ARGV' 3 foo -bar -v
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<Mon_Ouie> You can use -- to separate them from the other arguments
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<becom33> http://pastebin.com/Nz0BxLUH why is this not giving me results with the parameter
<becom33> ?
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<apeiros_> becom33: way to ask a good question…
<becom33> O_O
<shevy> becom33 this can not be tested easily
<shevy> http://localhost/in/?ID=1 would not work for me to test locally
<becom33> umm alright I'll give i a live example
<apeiros_> becom33: I'm here and I help people, but I don't feel like pulling out all relevant information. your question lacks almost all relevant information.
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<Guaguasi> I have a quick question. Why does (39.66 * 100).to_i = 3965 ?
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<becom33> alright wai t cant explain this with live example
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<shevy> because you use .to_i Guaguasi
<becom33> I'm getting a <b>Notice</b>: Undefined index: ID in <b>/opt/lampp/htdocs/in/index.php</b> on line <b>2</b><br />
<apeiros_> Guaguasi: what did you expect and why?
<shevy> (39.66 * 100).to_f # => 3966.0
<becom33> so that mean has not been passed as a paramater to the requets
<becom33> request *
<Guaguasi> I expect 3966, not 3965
<apeiros_> Guaguasi: and why?
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<Guaguasi> I expect 3966 because the int value of 3966.0 is 3966 lol
<apeiros_> but your result is not 3966.0
<apeiros_> 39.66 * 100 = 3965.9999999999995
<becom33> umm ??
<apeiros_> and to_i truncates, 3965.9999999999995 truncated is 3965
<apeiros_> you probably want round instead of to_i
<Guaguasi> That was the solution I found, but I find it ridiculous.
<Guaguasi> I hate floats :c
<rippa> Guaguasi: use rationals
<shevy> yeah
<rippa> or decimals
<shevy> I am confused as well. but now I learned .to_i truncates
<Guaguasi> 39.66 * 100 returns 3966.0 which is why I thought I was good.. .initially
<becom33> drizz: that shoudnt be for me . my question was about a get request not passing paramter . which nobody awnserd
<apeiros_> Guaguasi: use a newer ruby version
<apeiros_> they're better in that regard
<drizz> becom33: oh, sorry
<apeiros_> (displaying floats)
<Guaguasi> what version should I be using? I tried using 1.9.2-p180
<apeiros_> if you can't use a newer ruby, use "%.40f" % yourfloat
<apeiros_> 1.9.3
<shevy> hmm
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<Mon_Ouie> Ruby 1.8 sometimes "truncates" floats when displaying them when 1.9 doesn't
<Mon_Ouie> e.g. 0.1 + 0.2 is displayed as 0.3 in 1.8.7, and as 0.30000000000000004 in 1.9.3
<apeiros_> Mon_Ouie: seems it's only in as of 1.9.3
<apeiros_> I thought it was in 1.9.2 already, but since he uses it and gets 3966.0 displayed…
<shevy> the 0,00000000000000004 makes me happy
<apeiros_> basically 1.9.3 compares whether the truncated value would correspond with the same looking float literal. if not, it'll use the long form.
<Guaguasi> Yeah, I'm install 1.9.3 now to see what's up. I just hate floats.
<apeiros_> Guaguasi: instead of blindly hating them you'd do better to start understanding them.
<apeiros_> it's not just a float problem. it's a generic problem with limited precision.
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<Guaguasi> I guess. When I ran into the issue, I pretty much guess it had to do with the whole floating point math. I had seen it before when a previous developer was storing money values as floats with php/mysql
<csmrfx> aka what every developer should know about floating point math
<epochwolf|vps> money with floats is fine, as long as the language you are using doesn't lose precision.
<Guaguasi> Sometimes it would store $50.00 as 49.9999999999999999999987 or whatever
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<apeiros_> epochwolf|vps: define "doesn't lose precision"
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<Guaguasi> It's something I need to learn more about regarding its serious uses, but at the moment I'm not doing any heavy math so it's just irritating.
<apeiros_> money with IEEE 754 floats isn't fine. no matter what language.
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<apeiros_> Guaguasi: it's a very basic problem, it's not limited to "heavy math", as can be seen by: 0.1+0.2 == 0.3 # => false
<epochwolf|vps> apeiros_: doubles :P
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<Guaguasi> I meant that there's not a lot of calculations as well as nothing major
<apeiros_> epochwolf|vps: they don't change a thing.
<Guaguasi> but yeah, that is terrible :(
<Guaguasi> slash annoying
<Aristata> What do I need to remove %blah and other weird charater formats in a url to get the human readable one
<apeiros_> it's not terrible. it's expected.
<Aristata> I forget the library
<apeiros_> and you're not surprised when it happens in base 10
<Aristata> CGI or something?
<Aristata> URI.parse?
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<apeiros_> you're just not used to it happening in base 2 (when you look at the number in base 10)
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<apeiros_> Aristata: CGI.unescape
<apeiros_> URI may provide tools too.
<Aristata> Ahh that's it, thanks!
<apeiros_> Aristata: ri CGI
<Aristata> That worked :)
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<Guaguasi> yep, 1.9.3 doesn't truncate: 39.66 * 100 => 3965.9999999999995
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<Guaguasi> Thanks a lot gentlemen.
<apeiros_> Guaguasi: wrong, 1.9.3 still truncates.
<apeiros_> it's just better about handling your expectations.
<apeiros_> try: "%.40f" % (39.66*100)
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<Guaguasi> Yeah, I had done that when you suggested it earlier. I should have added "as much." Regardless, expected or not, it's still pretty annoying at times.
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<Guaguasi> Back to work, take care!
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<ReinH> Guedes: first, NEVER store money using flaots. Second, it is impossible for floating point math to be exact on any language on any computer, ever, period.
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<apeiros_> ReinH: he's gone. also, all already been said :-)
<ReinH> wah wah
<rippa> ReinH: it's possible
<rippa> if you only use binary fractions
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<ReinH> people that don't understand floating points are a particular pet pieve of mine.
<ReinH> rippa: then it isn't possible
<ReinH> that's like saying "you can spell any word you want to as long as you only use "f", "u", "c", and "k"
<rippa> yep
<rippa> what if you model binary money
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<apeiros_> rippa: you have to add "up to <limit>"
<apeiros_> I doubt many people understand that.
<ReinH> then they need to read it HARDER
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<rippa> what if you implement float something like bignum
<rippa> so it increases precision when necessary
<ReinH> you would need infinite precision
<rippa> though it would be better to just use rationals
<ReinH> no, it wouldn't
<rippa> ReinH: I mean with binary money
<Gate> Technically speaking, it is impossible to represent every value
<ReinH> you would need to convert on every calculation
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<ReinH> which means the main benefit of floating point math -- that it is FAST -- is gone
<Gate> Since real numbers are a continuous space and you have finite storage capacity
<ReinH> not *EVERY*, but far too many
<apeiros_> bignum technically is the same as rationals, just different implementation.
<Gate> However, "close enough" applies
<ReinH> Gate: confirm
<apeiros_> s/bignum/bigdecimal/
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<ReinH> Gate: actually, it's not the finiteness that's the problem, it's the countability
<apeiros_> hm, actually, bigdecimals are a subset of rationals, sorry.
<Gate> programming history is littered with examples of people dying, or money being lost due to floating point errors
<ReinH> rationals are finite but can be represented perfectly within certain bounds
<ReinH> reals can't be represented perfectly within any bounds
<apeiros_> ReinH: define finite
<apeiros_> decimal representation of 1/3 is not finite…
<ReinH> sorry
<ReinH> rationals are infinite
<ReinH> misspoke
<Gate> I choose epsilon = 1, all my numbers are "close enough" muahahahaha
<ReinH> but given that you can represent any rational as the fraction p/q, you can represent any rational with p and q in -MAXINT..MAXINT
<ReinH> you can't make a similar statement about the reals
<Gate> so 1/ 2^65 and you are SOL?
<apeiros_> SOL?
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<ReinH> Gate: I'm just saying that as an exammple, you can set bounds on your representation of rationals
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<ReinH> and that within those bounds, they are perfectly represented
<ReinH> you can obviously choose larger bounds than MAXINT
<ReinH> the problem isn't that reals are infinite
<ReinH> it's that they are uncountable
<ReinH> you can't represent any subset of the reals perfectly
<apeiros_> ReinH: you can do the same as you do with rationals
<ReinH> no, you can't
<apeiros_> you don't store the number, you store the symbol
<apeiros_> yes, you can. there's even libraries doing that.
<ReinH> sorry, you can't represent any *continuous* subset
<ReinH> you can obviously represent { 1, 2 }
<apeiros_> e.g. you don't store the result of sqrt(2), you store sqrt(2) itself.
<ReinH> right
<apeiros_> it's obviously got its limits.
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<shevy> unlike your mom!
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<ReinH> zing
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<apeiros_> is that what she said?
<ReinH> confirm
* apeiros_ wonders whether ArrayBuffers in js will work out…
<shevy> it always surprises me ... when I see ... 609 here in #ruby ... and (only?) 395 in #ruby-lang
<shevy> :(
<apeiros_> I find it encouraging that count(#ror)-count(#ruby) is only ~30 by now
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<shevy> whoa
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<shevy> colossal rails
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<shevy> https://github.com/rails/rails/compare/v3.1.2...v3.1.3 kinda can see what they are working on :D
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<iamjarvo> is it customary to only have your code 72-80 columns long
<rippa> (ruby.users + ruby-lang.users).uniq.size
<apeiros_> iamjarvo: there's a couple of people who do that. I don't.
<iamjarvo> apeiros_: what do you do?
<apeiros_> I try to keep it below 120 cols, but even that I surpass in maybe 5 out of 1000 lines
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<iamjarvo> apeiros_: do you hit enter when you get to that point or does your editor automatically break it at that point and if another dev opens up his editor and doesnt have that wrap option it goes on for however long it is
<apeiros_> what do I care about the settings of other peoples editors?
<apeiros_> >80 cols means no newline in the line
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<apeiros_> how an editor displays that is an entirely different question. mine has scrollbars.
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<apeiros_> though I'd only need those if I go over ~150 cols
<iamjarvo> apeiros_: im wondering how it works for working with other ppl
<apeiros_> again, why should I care?
<iamjarvo> lol
<apeiros_> any sane editor is perfectly capable of >80 cols
<apeiros_> and any sane computer can display >80 cols without scrolling
<any-key> it's still good form, you can have multiple splits
<apeiros_> so if somebody chooses to use an insane setup, that's *entirely* his problem.
<any-key> and it's easier to read
<any-key> it's about readability not technical constraints
<apeiros_> any-key: yes, readability is the only concern.
<apeiros_> and I don't think that "keep your col-count below 80" is the golden readability rule.
<any-key> I've been working through a codebase with giant hashes that take up several hundred columns on a single line
<any-key> spent most of the day breaking that shit up :(
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<iamjarvo> soi should just tell my editor when text reaches [my desired length] do a wrap and there shoudl not be a physical break there [me hitting enter]
<any-key> I just have mine set up to wrap based on my screen size so I make a judgement call regarding when to break things up
<any-key> it's all personal preference, I'm not super strict about the 80 columns rule
<apeiros_> iamjarvo: physical break is code. you don't want your editor to change your code…
<apeiros_> so no, don't let your editor add physical breaks into *any* document that is code. that'll just break stuff.
<any-key> yepyepyep
<rippa> I like my code line short and concise
<rippa> *s
<rippa> it's easier to scan vertically
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<iamjarvo> thanks
<any-key> I hold down the period key while running unit tests to make it look like they're running faster and not breaking
<any-key> :(
<apeiros_> any-key: just replace your test_helper.rb with: "puts "."*1000; exit"
<any-key> oooh good idea
<apeiros_> or rather, exit! instead of exit.
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<Mon_Ouie> Auto-wrapping can still be useful for comments
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<kamalreddy> hi
<kamalreddy> i am a noob
<kamalreddy> just started learning ruby
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<shevy> kamalreddy good
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<kamalreddy> please recommend me a way to solve installation forums
<kamalreddy> installation errors i mean
<ReinH> you will need to be more specific
<kamalreddy> i was trying to install ruby 1.9.2
<kamalreddy> however i get this error
<kamalreddy> 1 min
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<kamalreddy> error: Error running 'make ', please check
<kamalreddy> > /home/coder/.rvm/log/ruby-1.9.2-p0/make*.log
<kamalreddy> >
<kamalreddy> > error: There has been an error while running make. Aborting the
<kamalreddy> > installation.
<kamalreddy> what does that mean
<any-key> open up that log file
<kamalreddy> ok
<kamalreddy> and
<kamalreddy> ?
<davidcelis> read it
<any-key> that's what log files are for, it tells you what was happening and what went wrong
<kamalreddy> well..i didnt understand the log file
<kamalreddy> let me try once more
<any-key> if you don't understand it you need to tell us what it says so we can help you
<kamalreddy> thanks dude
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<any-key> I haven't done anything yet :P
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<shevy> lol
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<davidcelis> you're welcome
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<kamalreddy> please look at this make.log file that i got while was installing ruby 1.9.2
<kamalreddy> what does that mean?
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<tommyvyo> kamalreddy ready it not worK?
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<kamalreddy> no
<kamalreddy> it doesnt
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<Gate> apeiros_: SOL = Shit Out of Luck
<apeiros_> aha, that's why there was so many "(polite form)" explanations for SOL on acronymfinder… of course they omitted the "non-polite" form :)
<Gate> :) sorry, I don't think its that common an acronym, but I use it quite often
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<mvangala> is there a way to pass command line args to ruby one liners?
<mvangala> say, ruby -e first_arg second_arg '{ code here }'
<rippa> mvangala: ruby -e "p ARGV" a b
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<mvangala> rippa: cool, thanks.
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<larsx> 8lo
<apeiros_> eightlo?
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<any-key> secret code
<any-key> we have to crack it......
<banisterfiend> any-key: dont wanna
<any-key> too bad.
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* Boohbah presses any-key
<any-key> that is upsetting.
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<otherj> guys, what's the best thing for starting with ruby now? has anyone updated why's guide or in something else better?
<banisterfiend> otherj: probably ruby koans or something like that
<otherj> heh, ok
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<shevy> otherj chris pine tutorial. start here http://pine.fm/LearnToProgram/?Chapter=01
<shevy> I always hated why's guide. can't judge about ruby koans, but people recommend it
<otherj> why did you hate why's guide?
<otherj> i'm not sure that it was great for teaching, but it was at least entertaining
<davidcelis> _why's poingant guide is well written and a lot of fun to read
<davidcelis> but i feel like its too nonsensical to be a useful guide for teaching
<otherj> agreed
<shevy> otherj I found it as time-wasting pseudo poetry with colourful pictures
<otherj> i've been sort of puttering along by modifying other scripts and whatnot
<otherj> want to actually learn it properly this time
<shevy> the only time to really learn ruby is to write ruby code/scripts, the sooner the better
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<shevy> oops
<shevy> the only *way
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<otherj> yeah
<otherj> well i do that
<otherj> but it's in a hacky way, you know?
<shevy> yup but you progress and learn more with making mistakes
<XniX23> if i have a hash table in ruby (h["smth"]) and i add some elements to it... will then everytime i use each get them from first added to last?
<shevy> *by
<shevy> otherj for me, my first project was an IRC bot in ruby. second was a text-based game... the latter required getting user input, the former required checking what is said in a channel room against a list of actions
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<davidcelis> XniX23: what
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<davidcelis> XniX23: if you need to maintain order in some way, a hash is not what you want
<otherj> yeah, i've mostly used it to annoy people on irc
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<rippa> ruby 1.9 maintains order in a hash
<rippa> 1.8 does not
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<davidcelis> I'm trying to think of how that's useful, though
<davidcelis> It's not like you can call .first or .last or whatever
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<rippa> you can iterate
<apeiros_> davidcelis: read a yaml with ruby and write it out again
<apeiros_> davidcelis: do it in 1.8 and in 1.9
<apeiros_> since you're a railser, try e.g. with a locales yaml
<davidcelis> oh shit, you can
<davidcelis> lolol
<rippa> davidcelis: also, you can
<rippa> yeah
<rippa> it's Enumerable
<apeiros_> Enumerable#last is O(n), though
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<rippa> >ruby
<rippa> >speed
<apeiros_> rippa: don't confuse speed with scaling.
<apeiros_> O notation ain't about speed.
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<senny> is there a method on Array which checks if multiple elements are in the array? similar to include? but with x arguments
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<apeiros_> senny: you can check the intersection
<rippa> senny: [1,2,3].all? {|i| array.include? i}
<rippa> a bit backwards tough
<rippa> *h
<senny> apeiros_: ok, it was more about writing an idiomatic class, which defined include? but for multiple elements. In that case I'm going to change the method name to something different.
<apeiros_> O(n*m). array intersection scales better. though Array#- is probably easier
<apeiros_> (ary1-ary2).empty? # -> if true, it means all of ary1's elements are in ary2
<elementz_webchat> hi all. i am having problems running 'middleman' http://middlemanapp.com on a windows machine. when running 'middleman init myproject' i get the following error: http://pastebin.com/R7sbt1h3
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<apeiros_> elementz_webchat: sounds like you have to install another gem, which is probably named win32-proce or similar
<apeiros_> odd that it doesn't list it in its dependencies…
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<Clooth> bbl drunk.
<elementz_webchat> apeiros_: really strange this whole gem concept. i always thought its a package management like e.g. apt or rpm, which always check for missing dependencies. this is especially confusing to a newb like me
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<elementz_webchat> apeiros_: installing the missing package helped. thx!
<apeiros_> elementz_webchat: it is.
<davidcelis> gems usually do install their dependencies.
<apeiros_> but a gem needs to properly list its dependencies for that to work.
<davidcelis> if a gem has a dependency that it doesn't install, it means the author needs to l2write a gem
<apeiros_> rubygems can't magically figure it out on its own (neither can apt or rpm)
<elementz_webchat> maybe somebody could tell me what the difference is between doing a 'bundle install foo' and a 'gem install foo'
<elementz_webchat> is bundler just a different tool for packaging applications?
<apeiros_> bundler builds up on rubygems
<apeiros_> it is used to create self-contained projects
<apeiros_> mostly to ease deployment of apps (mostly web-apps)
<elementz_webchat> ok
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<Avi`> uhm, why can't i Date.parse("9/13/2011")
<Avi`> argumentError: invalid date
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<Avi`> but 9/12/2011 works fine
<Avi`> oh. because it thinks 12 is the month
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<davidcelis> dd/mm/yyyy
<davidcelis> oh wait you're in the other channel too
<Avi`> =)
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<Avi`> I get around.
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<arex\> I got a NoMemoryError for this: total = @words.values.sum
<arex\> What can be done?
<apeiros_> try .each_value.inject(:+)
<arex\> apeiros_: thanks - will let you know whether it works or not :D (20 min execution time)
<apeiros_> arex\: depending on what you do - try not to load @words into RAM in the first place
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<arex\> i just realized i can do it in a much better way
<apeiros_> @words.keys.length --> @words.length - no point in building that intermediary array
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<arex\> also true
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<superjoe> what's the idiomatic ruby way to do create an array of 32 random numbers between 0 and 25?
<superjoe> in python it would be [random.randint(0,25) for x in range(32)]
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<wmoxam> superjoe: (1..32).collect { rand(25) }
<apeiros_> Array.new(32) { rand(26) }
<apeiros_> rand(25) will give 24 as highest number.
<wmoxam> ah
<superjoe> nice, that looks pretty good
<superjoe> thanks
<arex\> :D
<shevy> hmm
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<mr-green> hi
<mr-green> I have a question
<otherj> just ask it
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<mr-green> when I do string interpolation, terminal inserts a newline
<mr-green> how do i avoid this?
<mr-green> for example, if I write : puts "The first #{number} fibonacci numbers are:"
<mr-green> the output is
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<apeiros_> mr-green: that means number contains a newline
<mr-green> The first 0
<mr-green> fibonacci numbers are:
<mr-green> oh okay
<mr-green> so do i have to chomp! it?
<shadoi> mr-green: use print instead of puts.
<shadoi> nevermind
<shadoi> need more coffee :)
<mr-green> okay thanks apeiros_ !
<apeiros_> mr-green: yes, chomp or chomp!. be aware that chomp! (like most String#bang! methods) returns nil if nothing changed.
<mr-green> I chomped it and that solved it
<mr-green> thanks anyway shadoi :)
<mr-green> what do you mean nothing changed, apeiros_ ?
<apeiros_> "foo".chomp! # => nil
<apeiros_> there's nothing to remove, the string before and after chomp is the same - nothing changed.
<mr-green> oh.
<mr-green> I see now
<mr-green> thanks!
<apeiros_> same applies for gsub!, tr!, upcase!, downcase! etc.
<apeiros_> source for a couple of bugs
<mr-green> good to know :)
<mr-green> thanks, I am new to ruby
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<FiestaSmash> hey, I have a function, I need to count the amount of time in Milliseconds it takes for that function to complete
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<FiestaSmash> Attempting to connect to a client, and returning the time it takes to connect in milliseconds
<apeiros_> FiestaSmash: you man you have a method
<apeiros_> Time#- is your friend
<celestius> how can i get the new factorygirl definition DSL to allow dynamic values in association properties?
<FiestaSmash> time? thanks
<FiestaSmash> would it start counting time from the initial call of my function
<apeiros_> FiestaSmash: Time#- is documentation parlance and means "instance method '-' (minus) of class Time"
<jlogsdon> Time.new = a time object with the time at instantiatiob
<FiestaSmash> or would it be a subtract system time at the start of the function from system time at the finish
<FiestaSmash> ah
<jlogsdon> So do start = Time.new, then exec_time = Time.new - start
<apeiros_> Time.now to get the current time.
<apeiros_> Time.new--, Time.now, so much clearer :-p
<jlogsdon> yeah, it is.
<jlogsdon> good call :)
<FiestaSmash> hey, thanks. let me try
<apeiros_> damit, I wanted to start a fight, now you foiled my plan! that's evil :(
<apeiros_> ;-)
<jlogsdon> ha
<jlogsdon> bring up vi vs emacs and we can fight :P
<apeiros_> I don't use either since they both suck. sorry :-D
<jlogsdon> :O
<jlogsdon> blasphemy!
<apeiros_> (how to make twice as many enemies as any emacs or vi users can muster *g*)
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<jlogsdon> yeah that's a sure fire way to get both sides to descend on you with a fiery rath
<apeiros_> but honestly, I'm kinda editor-less right now. They all suck :( sublime seems promising, but… well, lets give it another year or so…
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<jlogsdon> yeah, I used sublime for a bit... but I always go back to vim
<jlogsdon> the recent betas for sublime have gotten a lot better than the alphas, but still a lot of work to do on it
<apeiros_> too sad barebones stopped keeping bbedit awesome :(
<jlogsdon> =/
<apeiros_> or even non-sucking…
<apeiros_> (which is their claim - the editor that doesn't suck)
<jlogsdon> welp.
<jlogsdon> you could always switch to TextMate, it's apparently kept up-to-date and version 2 is "on the way"
<apeiros_> I used TM for a year
<apeiros_> and I switched back to BBedit
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<apeiros_> but granted, the difference ain't as big as I wished :-(
<davidcelis> jlogsdon: version 2 is in public alpha. you can use it already
<jlogsdon> oh yeah, i remember the debacle where he posted it "privately" do a publicly indexed mailing list
<jlogsdon> that was funny
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<ReinH> apeiros_: BBedit? o_O
<FiestaSmash> ok, hey, I need to compile a ruby application for desktop deployment
<FiestaSmash> I don't want to do something entirely new just to get C# working with SQLlite
<FiestaSmash> so how would any of you reccomend me going about this
<jlogsdon> C# has a great SQLite library...
<FiestaSmash> no no not that
<jlogsdon> Which is apparently faster than the C one in certain scenarios (mainly selecting)
<jlogsdon> oh
<FiestaSmash> I mean I don't want to have to make something entirely new
<jlogsdon> oh, haha
<FiestaSmash> call it laziness
<FiestaSmash> or consistency
<jlogsdon> I know there are a few GUI toolkits that have packaging support, but I can't recall the names
<FiestaSmash> so you have never done anything like this? thanks... ahh I need someone who has :<
<jlogsdon> http://shoesrb.com/ <- that's one
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<jlogsdon> ha, no. only gui things I've done have been with .net
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<FiestaSmash> blarg, thanks, that looks promising, despite the large amount of text on that page :P
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<FiestaSmash> but yeah, thanks, ill try that one
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<shevy> FiestaSmash are you afraid of text
<FiestaSmash> haha nah, it was kind of a smartbutt comment about how little text there was on the page
<FiestaSmash> i apologize
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<mr-green> i wrote a recursive function to calculate fibonacci sequence upto that number
<mr-green> I gave the method the number 100
<mr-green> it is taking a really long time
<mr-green> is iteration faster in ruby?
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<apeiros_> mr-green: yes
<apeiros_> method invocation is somewhat slow, deep stack traces too.
<mr-green> right,
<apeiros_> but also remember that recursive implementation of fib is O(n!) iirc
<apeiros_> which is *very* slow no matter what language
<mr-green> right
<apeiros_> also the result is *huge*, meaning you can't use plain CPU Integer arithmetics anymore, you need bignum.
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<mr-green> it is actually O(2^n), I just found out :)
<mr-green> thanks
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<mr-green> okay
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<apeiros_> hm, actually the number is smaller than I thought
<apeiros_> I thought fib grew faster
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<shevy> like bonzai plants
<mr-green> yeah
<shevy> hmm
<shevy> I really want to know ruby speed hints
<apeiros_> mr-green: fib = Hash.new { |h,k| k <= 2 ? h[k] = k : h[k] = h[k-1]+h[k-2] }; fib[100]
<shevy> as to what to avoid, what to use ...
<apeiros_> recursive too, but with "caching"
<apeiros_> 0.000614ms on my system for fib[100]
<FiestaSmash> ha jlogsdon shoes is pretty straightforward, thanks
<mr-green> thats so cool
<mr-green> let me try it out!
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<apeiros_> oh, actually 0.15ms - forgot I have to clear the hash after each time :) (of course)
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<mr-green> I don't understand what you just said
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<mr-green> I am very new to programming in general
<mr-green> but thanks! I appreciate it
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<mr-green> let me try to get my head around that
<shevy> mr-green I think he said that it is fast
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<mr-green> lol, that I got
<mr-green> I am talking about the method he wrote before that
<mr-green> :)
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<mr-green> s
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<apeiros_> mr-green: well, tell me if I need to explain something
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<mr-green> apeiros_ : are you here regularly?
<apeiros_> I'd say so
<mr-green> apeiros_ : Okay. Then I will look for you on here whenever I have some doubts
<mr-green> thank you so much
FiestaSmash [FiestaSmash!~thisisfak@c-24-30-117-33.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #ruby
<mr-green> right now I am just writing some random programs to get the feel of rubyu
<mr-green> apeiros_ : I don't know most of the advanced features
arthurlockhart [arthurlockhart!~cinch@60-242-128-8.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #ruby
<mr-green> apeiros_ : I will surely have some doubts when I get to those
<mr-green> apeiros_ : Meanwhile, thank you for all your help