apeiros changed the topic of #ruby to: Ruby 2.0.0-p195: http://ruby-lang.org (Ruby 1.9.3-p429) || Paste >3 lines of text on http://gist.github.com
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<GreatSUN> hi all
<GreatSUN> can someone help me with use of ruby in windows?
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<GreatSUN> I am trying to move directory content into another directory (not existing)
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<GreatSUN> FileUtils.mv(Dir[sourcepath/*], destinationpath, :force => true) is the right command for linux
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<GreatSUN> Spooner: I did, but what works well on linux doesn't do the job on windows
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<GreatSUN> and I wonder why
<GreatSUN> do I have to create the directory before on windows?
<Spooner> Oh, I see. It should still work fine.
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<GreatSUN> (just had the idea now, didn't try)
<Spooner> Yes, the directory has to exist. Just use mkdir_p if you don't know if it exists.
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<GreatSUN> Spooner: then this is the problem. thanks
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<Alysum> hi I'm struggling to workout how to get the first match for a foo.scan('/regex/') {} what should I put in brackets?
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<Spooner> Alysum, If you just want the first match, then don't use a scan.
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<Alysum> Spooner: would you suggest a match instead ?
<Spooner> Alysum, And '/regex/' isn't a regexp in Ruby. /regexp/ is.
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<Alysum> I know it was just an example...
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<Spooner> Yes, foo.match(/(regex)/).captures[0]
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<Alysum> ok thanks will try that
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<Spooner> Right, it is just that in some languages, you do specify regexp like that ('/regexp/' or even 'regexp')
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<zac_o_0> pretty quiet in here
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<zac_o_0> is it possible to use prawn with a ruby script rather than ruby/rails? not finding a good answer...
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<zac_o_0> be gentle, i'm new
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<Xeago> zac_o_0: pdf thingy?
<zac_o_0> Xeago: yep!
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<Xeago> I see no reason it cannot be called from arbitrary contexts, so go call it from anywhere you want
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<zac_o_0> Xeago: thanks... so I just do a gem install...?
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<mustermark> Why is this giving me an "undefined local variable" error? https://gist.github.com/33af0a9ae7ebe8a84e79
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<mustermark> Can you not reference local variables as defaults in constructors?
<mustermark> it's ruby 1.8 fwiw
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<rcsheets> i am trying to get started with zeromq on ruby using the examples at https://github.com/andrewvc/learn-ruby-zeromq but i can't seem to get the library to load. ruby says "Unable to load this gem. The libzmq library exists, but cannot be loaded." and then offers some helpful suggestions for Windows. I'm on Linux.
<mustermark> i can't even do something like defaulting the argument to nil and build||=default_build'ing int
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<crocket> rcsheets, Did you get an answer?
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<rcsheets> crocket: not so far.
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<rcsheets> seriously, $" is a thing? what is this, perl? ;-)
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<rcsheets> so i kinda get the impression from looking at the source (libzmq.rb) that ffi_lib is what's throwing LoadError
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<rcsheets> i'm not clear on how ffi_lib can fail though, or how to learn more about how it is failing
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<crocket> rcsheets, What is ffi_lib?
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<rcsheets> crocket: it seems to be the function that's being called that's supposed to be loading the shared object so something can make calls? i think?
<rcsheets> as far as i can tell, this is the line that's throwing: https://github.com/chuckremes/ffi-rzmq/blob/master/lib/ffi-rzmq/libzmq.rb#L21
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<rcsheets> before i added the right lib path to my $PATH, it said it couldn't find the library at all. now it says it can, but that it "cannot be loaded", a message that's being printed inside the LoadError rescue
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<crocket> meh
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<rcsheets> crocket: do you think i should be looking at a require and not at this ffi_lib thing? i could be wrong. i really don't know what i'm doing :-\
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<bnagy> rcsheets: yay that's my error
<bnagy> guess I should have made it clearer :(
<bnagy> basically it sounds like you haven't installed libzmq
<bnagy> like you need to install the C lib before the FFI stuff will work
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<rcsheets> i think that i have though
<bnagy> maybe it's not in path?
<rcsheets> when its lib directory wasn't in my path, i got a slightly different error
<rcsheets> now that i've added it to my path, i get the "The libzmq library exists, but cannot be loaded." one
<bnagy> OK, maybe some weird version thing? Wrong arch?
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<rcsheets> ldd seems pretty happy with the so file
<bnagy> that error is from me on Windows when I copied a 32 bit dll by accident on a 64 bit system and it was saying library not found
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<rcsheets> oh, i wonder if this is some redhat-ism and it wants the lib dir to be called lib64? i guess i could try that.
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<rcsheets> nope, that didn't help
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<bnagy> weird
<bnagy> how did you install libzmq?
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<rcsheets> downloaded zeromq-3.2.3.tar.gz, untarred it, ran configure with --prefix=/local/zeromq-3.2.3, make, make install
<rcsheets> now i have:
<rcsheets> $ ls /local/zeromq-3.2.3/lib
<rcsheets> libzmq.a libzmq.la libzmq.so libzmq.so.3 libzmq.so.3.0.0 pkgconfig
<rcsheets> i will try going through some of the examples in C to make sure the library really works.
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<bnagy> did you try putting the .so in the ext dir of ffi_rzmq?
<rcsheets> no. would that be useful? It seems to be finding the .so alright, just not loading it for some reason.
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<bnagy> it shouldn't help, no
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<bnagy> but it might :)
<rcsheets> ok, well i'm going to make sure the library works first
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<bnagy> your path is not one of the standard ones, so unless you copied it somewhere I am surprised it found it
<rcsheets> it checks your $PATH
<bnagy> yeah, but I am not sure it actually does
<bnagy> like the actual ffi_lib call
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<rcsheets> oh
<bnagy> is only using ZMQ_LIB_PATHS and inside_gem
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<rcsheets> yeah, local_path doesn't show up after that does it?
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<rcsheets> the rescue looks at it
<rcsheets> but the ffi_lib call doesn't
<bnagy> basically that error message is really just for windows... I think it needs to be rewritten
<bnagy> my bad :(
<lathiat> Hi Folks.. I was wondering if anyone knew of a guide for writing Gems.. trying to write an API for a third party site.. trying to copy things like a global config block but was wondering if there was a nice reference somewhere to a 'good' way to do it.
<rcsheets> i was thinking it might make sense to wrap the error message in an if FFI::Platform::IS_WINDOWS
<rcsheets> bnagy: no worries :)
<bnagy> on windows it will find the lib by magic if it is in your path
<bnagy> anyway, try the ext directory
<rcsheets> ok
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<rcsheets> that would be the ext directory under my ruby's site_ruby/1.9.1/rubygems, or..?
<bnagy> yeah where the gem is installed
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<rcsheets> k
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<rcsheets> bnagy: that worked! thank you!
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<bnagy> no probs. That LoadError needs patching. Again. :(
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<bnagy> rcsheets: just by the way, why are you working with zmq?
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<Sicilians> Heyo, does anyone have any resources about getting started with writing good business rules/logic that they could point me to? I guess resources about writing good technical requirements couldn't hurt to buff up on either.
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<rcsheets> bnagy: I was looking for a way for a web application to talk to another not-yet-written process that might be local or across a WAN, and i was going to try zmq to see if it's suitable
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<bnagy> ok. I liked it, but it's a bit of a pig to work with from Ruby, and I think the main devs have left, again
<bnagy> really nice patterns though
<rcsheets> oh :-\
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<bnagy> I think crossroads.io is his new thing
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<rcsheets> well i'm not really looking for something new and shiny. i just want it to work. is there something i should look at rather than zeromq? i would kinda just like something that lets me ignore some details of socket programming, mostly.
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<bnagy> broad topic :/
<bnagy> AMQP? A work queue? ( beanstalkd, resque, sidekiq ... )
<rcsheets> certainly
<bnagy> I am happy with AMQP, but for 1:1 stuff I'd use a Queue abstraction
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<rcsheets> it needs to move a lot of data around, and i'd prefer fewer moving parts. i would rather not have a central broker.
<bnagy> depends on what behaviour you're modelling
<rcsheets> i am, however, not all that familiar with all that's out there
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<Quadlex> rcsheets: How important is being lossless?
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<rcsheets> i can retry sends if i know they've failed, but it absolutely can't ever silently lose data
<Quadlex> I personally feel that central brokers are better for that
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<Quadlex> Yes, there's another moving part, but it's a part whose sole responsibility is to safely move data
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<bnagy> I'd go work-queue
<rcsheets> the thing about that is that my use case is very distributed
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<rcsheets> someone in europe might need data from europe, or they might need data from east asia, or either coast of the US. where would i put a central broker if all the data has to flow through it?
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<bnagy> ok sounds too complex to talk about without all the details
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<bnagy> I would read the 0mq guide ( which is excellent ) and make sure you see a pattern there that makes sense for you, before you start
<rcsheets> yeah, probably. so what i really want to know is whether i should avoid checking out zeromq because, as you've mentioned, the developers may have left?
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<bnagy> afaik it's still 'live'
<rcsheets> yeah i was trying to try it before committing, but then i couldn't load the module. so that's why i'm here.
<bnagy> there's a pretty helpful channel as long as you don't ask stupid questions and you read the guide first
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<Quadlex> I like amqp because it can be very flexible
<Quadlex> I think you can distribute
<rcsheets> sure. i don't think my question was stupid...
<Quadlex> not sure
<bnagy> I tarcieri is still using it for dcell
<bnagy> rcsheets: didn't say it was
<crocket> rcsheets, Did you solve the problem?
<rcsheets> crocket: yes, now it loads.
<crocket> rcsheets, How did you solve it?
<rcsheets> crocket: by symlinking the library into the ext directory of the installed gem.
<crocket> rcsheets, Is it the only way?
<crocket> bnagy, What is the appropriate way?
<rcsheets> crocket: it's the only way I solved it. :)
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<bnagy> appropriate way to what?
<rcsheets> bnagy suggested copying the library. i didn't want to copy it if i could symlink instead.
<crocket> bnagy, load libzmq
<rcsheets> so i tried symlinking and it worked
<bnagy> oh, it was just not in one of the 'approved' paths
<bnagy> I have no opinion regarding copying vs symlinking
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<bnagy> the ext dir is there so you can test different libzmq versions without upgrading / downgrading system versions
<rcsheets> to me, the symlink has the advantage of avoiding the later question "where did this library come from?"
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<crocket> bnagy, What are approved paths?
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<bnagy> the ones in the source :) standardish unix lib paths
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<crocket> the ones in the source?
<crocket> ext isn't standard.
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<crocket> rcsheets, oh good
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<rcsheets> i don't know if that's the canonical repository, but the list matches the list in the gem i'm using
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<SirFunk_> oh boy.. I have to pair program with someone running windows tomorrow who is new to ruby
<SirFunk_> this is going to be a mess
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<crocket> SirFunk_, What's wrong?
<SirFunk_> crocket: well. I don't know what to use to pair. I doubt he's got tmux installed
<crocket> SirFunk_, What does tmux have to do with ruby?
<SirFunk_> pair programming
<SirFunk_> remote pair programming
<crocket> SirFunk_, ok
<crocket> SirFunk_, He should use your tmux.
<crocket> SirFunk_, Why don't you install an IDE instead?
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<SirFunk_> crocket: oh yeah, i suppose that'll work
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<SirFunk_> crocket: do you know any good ide's for pairing?
<crocket> SirFunk_, Any IDE is better than tmux for paring.
<crocket> You need a good IDE for ruby.
<bnagy> wtf
<SirFunk_> i never use an IDE for ruby
<bnagy> virtually nobody uses an IDE for ruby
<SirFunk_> haha
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<breakingthings> who even ide
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<bnagy> SirFunk_: just have them ssh from windows into some box and share screen or tmux or whatever
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<SirFunk_> bnagy: yeah, i'll do that. I need to find a good way to screen share too though. I want to set them up with a vagrant setup so they can develop on their windows machine too
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<bnagy> imvho screen -x > tmux because you can each be in different screens
<bnagy> getting git working on windows is a PITA :(
<SirFunk_> yeah well they can git from the VM
<bnagy> happily, ST2 looks the same on win / osx / linux
<bnagy> assuming that they're not up to vim
<crocket> SirFunk_, What about eclipse ruby plugin?
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<bnagy> XD
<SirFunk_> crocket: *barf*
<crocket> bnagy, getting git working on windows is not difficult.
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<bnagy> crocket: maybe not for an obvious hotshot like you
<bnagy> you're clearly on top of this whole ruby game
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<crocket> bnagy, What's your issue with git on windows?
<crocket> unicode?
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<bnagy> ssh
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<_erroric> anyone around for a quick question?
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<superscott[8]> more or less
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<_erroric> If I plan to use ruby for mostly sysadminy scripts, would I need to go about figuring RVM? I know RVM is environment control, would that be necessary for just scripts?
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<superscott[8]> _erroric: necessary? not really. highly advisable? yes.
<superscott[8]> there's not much to figure out honestly.
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<_erroric> yeah, i read the perks of using it with rails
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<superscott[8]> but like lets say if you wrote all your scripts in 1.9.3, then something really cool came out in 2.0 that you wanted to use.
<superscott[8]> then you could script out which version of ruby you're using inside each one of your scripts, and then not have to worry about re-writing everything
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<_erroric> touche
<_erroric> thanks superscott[8] !
<superscott[8]> four shizzle my nizzle
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<Macaveli> Anyone familiar with Net::HTTP ?
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<fuleo2> someone give me simple ruby code to enclose a text file with <message> </message>. Add first line -> <message>... and End of line </message>.
<TTilus> fuleo2: don't need ruby for that
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<fuleo2> it has to be ruby though... ~.~
<TTilus> fuleo2: (echo '<message>'; cat file; echo '</message>' > wrapped-file
<TTilus> fuleo2: oh, ok
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<fuleo2> TTilus, cool . That'll do.
<TTilus> fuleo2: system("(echo '<message>'; cat file; echo '</message>' > wrapped-file")
<TTilus> fuleo2: now in ruby!
<TTilus> =D
<fuleo2> haha
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<TTilus> fuleo2: duh, closing ) is missing echo '</message>') > wrapped-file
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<TTilus> fuleo2: _why_ did you first think it had to be ruby and then suddenly thought it didn't need to?
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<fuleo2> well if it works, then I'll just use it.
<fuleo2> im just hacking something to get it to work.
<TTilus> ok
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<TTilus> thats what i assumed ;)
<TTilus> the next guy helping you might not be as good at assuming as i am ;)
<apeiros> or may simply not want to assume
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<TTilus> so not placing arbitrary non-relevat non-applying restrictions might be a good idea
<TTilus> apeiros: exactly
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<katsrc> something strange is going on with ruby, i'm trying to compile a simple program, but it seems to hang at get.chomp() line
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<katsrc> i'm doing exercise 11 from here: http://ruby.learncodethehardway.org/book/ex11.html
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<clocKwize> it'l hang until you enter a value to the console? :D
<katsrc> nevermind, fixed it i think it was a syntax error
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<katsrc> thanks
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<lolmaus> I would like to get my hands into someone's gem code. I clone it from GitHub and require from my app like this: `require '../github/lib/github_api'`. But the gem itself requires its files like this `require 'github_api/version'` which fails. How do i do it right?
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<lolmaus> I tried modifying `require 'github_api/version'` into `require './github_api/version'` but it still fails (no such file)
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<waxjar> either run ruby with the -I flag, put the folder the gem is in in the load path or use require_relative
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<lolmaus> waxjar, -I is awesome!
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<waxjar> it is :D
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<aedorn> zzzzoooooooooooooooommmmmmmm
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<cr3> is there any preference between using .to_s or .join('') on an array?
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<hoelzro> I think .join('') is more explicit
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<hoelzro> to me, it says "show me the elements of this array with no spaces in between"
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<hoelzro> .to_s says "show me a string representation of this object, whatever that is"
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<cr3> hoelzro: agreed, I like that way of looking at it. thanks!
<hoelzro> np =
<hoelzro> =)
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<maddog_> How can I convert a valid array to a Matrix?
<alex88> hi guys, someone ever used "serve"? you know if there is a way to compile files with yum compressor or such on export?
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<pyr0commie> Hi... does anyone know how I can download the SuperKaramba bindings for ruby? I'm using Fedora 18 and I installed the superkaramba and kross-interpreters packages, but when I require 'karamba' there is no module. I can't use python either. Is there another library I need?
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<hems> I just ruined into problems escaping “ and ” ( weird quotes ) for javascript, any suggestion on how to solve that?
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<ericwood> weird quotes should just work
<ericwood> but your question is vague
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<whowantstolivefo> guys im working coding at codecademy.com but i got stuck at this question and i have no idea how to fix it , anyone around to explain and teach me how to pass this code ?
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<Psy-Q> what is the strategy for Ruby 2.x on Debian, does anyone know? right now there are 1.9.3 packages included with wheezy, but i'm wondering if and when newer versions might be available, and if they will be parallel to the existing ones like 1.8.7 is now
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<Zakaria> Psy-Q: maybe need a little bit to include 2.0.0
<Zakaria> but in general RVM is better
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<Psy-Q> Zakaria: hmm! thanks
<Psy-Q> too bad, having packages might make our install guides half their current length :(
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<Psy-Q> i wonder how the python people do it
<Zakaria> Psy-Q: welcome!, as you know, Debian try to do much test to include a ruby , also this is important
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<Zakaria> i don't use Debian for that, ArchLInux is better for me
<Zakaria> also if you see kde 4.8 and gnome! much crazy strategy!
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<Havvy> What are the recommended books for learning Ruby?
<Psy-Q> hrm..
<Psy-Q> well, yeah, debian isn't ever cutting edge
<Psy-Q> but i'm getting worried with how many small ecosystems use their own version management scheme outside of packages (e.g. ruby, python, node/npm...)
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<Psy-Q> in the end you install a language or runtime or whatever and a package management system along with it, six times, on every server :(
<Zakaria> yes , right
<Havvy> Psy-Q: Those are still packages.
<ghr> +1 for packages. Makes ops life much easier
<joonty> Psqy-Q: many python users use virtualenv
<Havvy> Just ones not controlled by the OS.
<Psy-Q> Havvy: yeah, that's the issue there
<Psy-Q> you almost have to compile node from source, you almost have to use a ruby version manager to manage that stuff, with one set of gems per ruby version, etc.
<Zakaria> Havvy: try to use this: codecademy.com/
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<Havvy> Zakaria: Looking for a book. They usually go more into depth than codecademy.
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<jaybe> Psy-Q, nod; annoying; reality. check out rbenv. also, some have suggested that chruby is very simple, clean, and unobtrusive.
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<Psy-Q> rbenv is fine for single-user systems
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<Zakaria> Havvy: look at: itebooks
<jaybe> Psy-Q, if you want 'modern' on debian, you'll have to backport, compile yourself, and or look at unstable/experimental branches to build packages from.
<Psy-Q> but if you want to e.g. have one system user per rails app and host it all on apache through passenger, rbenv can't do it
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<Psy-Q> jaybe: yeah, that's what i've done so far. i was asking if perhaps there is already a strategy in place that 2.0.0 will be distributed through backports
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<Psy-Q> then i would've told the ops to upgrade our rails servers to wheezy, use the system-packaged 1.9.3
<Havvy> Zakaria: Ooh. I did not know of this.
<Psy-Q> then they could remove rvm from the equation
<Havvy> Thanks!
<Psy-Q> and they wouldn't have to compile rubies, etc.
<joonty> you often don't need to compile rubies with rvm
<Zakaria> welcome! ;)
<Psy-Q> oh, haven't checked much recently, locally i'm on rbenv
<joonty> $ rvm install --binary
<joonty> or --binaries
<joonty> can't remember
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<joonty> but that's made it a *lot* quicker
<jaybe> Psy-Q, i'd use rbenv over rvm. and check out chruby. also, you can configure bundle and or gems to live in a relatively 'shared' location.
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<Psy-Q> yeah, okay. but still, rvm rapes the shell a bit, it would be nice not having to have it on all the servers
<joonty> Psy-Q: true, it does
<Psy-Q> jaybe: would that allow one system user per rails app if i'd stick it behind phusion passenger, do you know? that's the only thing tying us to rvm for now
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<joonty> it's a tradeoff in the end, it gives you a lot for free but also interferes heavily
<Psy-Q> e.g. we might have /home/rails/foo.example.com, /home/rails/bar.example.com and bar and foo are two distinct system users
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<jaybe> Psy-Q, why is that an issue?
<PigDude> does it matter if i build a gem in ruby 2 or 1.9.3?
<Zakaria> Havvy: -> there is also a cute ebook site called; wowebook: amazing too!
<PigDude> will a gem build in ruby 2 that uses syntax that is backwards compatible (not that there are huge differences) work in 1.9.3, install properly and such?
<Psy-Q> jaybe: rvm has a "system-wide install" mode where it drops a binary wrapper into /usr/local/rvm/bin and then each of those users can use the rubies that you've installed as root
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<Zakaria> PigDude: most people use 1.9.3, need time to move to 2
<Psy-Q> jaybe: i'm not sure if rbenv can also be made to do that, so that? would i just prepend its path to all users' PATHs?
<PigDude> Zakaria, yes, but does it matter which version i use to build the gem?
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<PigDude> Zakaria, i am just adding a :o => v type option, so it is very backwards compatible
<PigDude> Zakaria, it is actually to satisfy a Rails 4 requirement
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<PigDude> Zakaria, the gemspec used to build the old version worked to generate one with ruby 2
<jaybe> Psy-Q, rbenv can/does do the same thing with shims. i believe all that's required is the rbenv call in user profiles. and you could declare that all gems for ruby version x.x live in /static/location/x.x .. shrug
<PigDude> Zakaria, and it installed as expected, etc.
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<Psy-Q> jaybe: ah! i could try that, then
<jaybe> Psy-Q, do check out chruby
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<Zakaria> PigDude: Thanks! I'm using it too
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<jaybe> Psy-Q, if you *wanted* each app/user to be able to install/updates gems (bleh) you could make the gems home group owned and writable by the group and have the apps/users be a part of the group, etc.
<Psy-Q> jaybe: hey, chruby looks nice
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<jaybe> Psy-Q, yah, it's unobtrusive
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<Psy-Q> jaybe: the users would just have to be able to select one of the rubies installed by root. the gems are installed with bundle install --deployment anyway
<Psy-Q> through capistrano
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<Psy-Q> since we host legacy 1.8.7 and current 1.9.3 apps on the same server (don't ask...)
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<PigDude> Zakaria, ?
<Zakaria> PigDude: yes
<PigDude> so does anybody know about portability of rubygems built with rubygems 2.0.3?
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<PigDude> assuming syntax, etc. is portable
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<Psy-Q> jaybe: i'll test the rbenv + global $PATH idea from before now. then i'll try chruby for the same idea
<jaybe> Psy-Q, cool; mind sharing your experiences?
<Zakaria> I didn't try it
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<jaybe> Psy-Q, note bundle can also be configured to save/store/reference gems via it's .config
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<haylon> when placing a '\' in between some " ", do I still need to do a '\\' or do i have to do something else?
<Psy-Q> jaybe: hm, initializing rbenv if rbenv lives in a different location than ~/.rbenv does work, but things break afterwards. it seems rbenv in its shims exports some environment variables pointing explicitly to the home dir it was installed in (?)
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<Psy-Q> i might just try chruby, it's easier for me to grasp what that does exactly
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<hoelzro> haylon: yes
<hoelzro> >> "a single backslash: \\"
<eval-in> hoelzro => "a single backslash: \\" (http://eval.in/30378)
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<hoelzro> ...
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<hoelzro> >> puts "a single backslash: \\"
<eval-in> hoelzro => a single backslash: \ ... (http://eval.in/30379)
<haylon> Ok, I will give it a try. THank you.
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<Psy-Q> jaybe: it works fine with chruby
<jaybe> Psy-Q, sweet :)
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<jaybe> Psy-Q, i appreciate chruby's simplicity and unobtrusiveness
<Psy-Q> jaybe: each user can pick preinstalled rubies, and the gems install with bundle install --deployment will also work fine provided they were installed with the right version in the first place (1.8.7 and not 1.9.3 for the legacy projects)
<Psy-Q> jaybe: yes, this makes sense
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<Psy-Q> it's also easier to sell to the ops
<Psy-Q> since rvm is black magic and rbenv is slight voodoo
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<Psy-Q> i even managed to install rails locally to a specific user, and it seemed to work transparently with the ruby chosen via chruby :)
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<Todd-> Anyone know of an irc channel for webmock specific questions?
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<Psy-Q> hell, i think i'll switch from rbenv to chruby locally too :)
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<jezi22> guys how can i install 'net/install' in ruby 1.9.x?
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<breakingthings> Is the major difference between rbenv and chruby the voodoo it does/doesn't do behind the scenes, or is there actually a difference in functionality?
<waxjar> there's a nice list in chruby's README
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<breakingthings> Yeah, it just seems like it's all internal things that is different.
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<pyr0commie> Anyone know any easter eggs in ruby?
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<apeiros> pyr0commie: goto
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<apeiros> needs recompilation with a specific flag
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<pyr0commie> ah right, I was wondering if it really did have gotos
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<Havvy> Does Ruby have a node-like environment?
<hoelzro> Havvy: what constitutes a "node-like" environment?
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<Havvy> Asynchronous-single threaded.
<hoelzro> well, EventMachine offers an event loop
<hoelzro> that's the closest thing I can think of
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<Havvy> So I'd have to build up the environment then?
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<hoelzro> well, you could use EM
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<waxjar> i'd just go with node if you really wanna do reactor kind of stuff, it'll probably perform better and EM is kind of a bitch to work with imo.
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<atmosx> how to convert ET time to UTC?
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<MrZYX> atmosx: in what way is it given?
<atmosx> 7:00PM ET
<atmosx> I wannt know when the Chiago is playing against maimi
<atmosx> miami
<atmosx> I've heard rose is gonna play
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<atmosx> blah fud he will not play
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<aedorn> atmosx: 23:00 UTC is 7pm eastern. Eastern time is UTC-5, but we're in daylight savings so UTC-4 right now
<atmosx> yeaj I figured
<atmosx> but DRose isn't playing and Miami will win easily.
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<MrZYX> so this is #ruby
<MrZYX> >> require 'time'; format = "%l:%M%p %Z"; Time.strptime("7:00PM ET".gsub("ET", "EDT"), format).utc.strftime(format)
<eval-in> MrZYX => "11:00PM UTC" (http://eval.in/30392)
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<MrZYX> and we need a better standard for the timezone abbreviations m(
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<apeiros> if we abolished that silly DST, we could just use the offset directly.
<apeiros> +0100, -0700 etc.
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<superscott[8]> ^
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<apeiros> but with dst, we could just indicate dst in the offset: +0200D (== +0100 + DST), +0100
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<aedorn> We could just do away with time zones completely, and make everyone adjust to 24 hour clocks. Global UTC use sure would uncomplicate things (after the initial hysteria anyway)
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<_br_> aedorn: Absolutely, seconded. I'm so tired of this nonsense as well.
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<jezi22> im new in ruby. what really is the difference with '.' and'::' in accessing methods
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<MrZYX> '.' looks better
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<ChristianS> '::' is for constants
<jezi22> but it do the same?
<jezi22> what kind of constants?
<MrZYX> for methods? yes
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<ChristianS> jezi22: any constants. but you never need it for methods (afaik), as MrZYX said
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<joshu> I need some advise on how to structure a ruby script I'm about to write. The script will process incoming email stripping information and then using that info to create new email messages. basically there are 4 different types of incoming emails and 4 new emails created respectively. I don't know when to have one ruby script that does the initial checking to see which type of email it is and then calling the respective ruby script to handle
<joshu> that email. Or have everything in one file with say 4 if statements…I'm quite new at this so any advice is appreciated
<joshu> I'll be using the mail gem for inbound parsing and outbound email creation
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<waxjar> joshu, will you just be processing an email occasionally or will you process a lot?
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<joshu> waxjar somewhere in between basically my ruby script is serving as a convenience cleanup thingy for inbound/ outbound faxing via a fax cloud provider who's emails contain lots of marketing shit etc which my script will remove prior to deliver to local users. to give you a roughy number maybe total inbound/outbound mails this ruby script will have to deal with is 20-30 per month if that helps
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<waxjar> joshu, i would just keep it simple then and go with 4 if statements
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<joshu> and all the logic in one ruby file?
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<joshu> something like when a particular if statement is true call a method defined in the same file?
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<GeorgesLeYeti> Hi
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<otters> hello GeorgesLeYeti
<RiftyMcF3arless> quick question... in a `for in in 1..some_var` loop, is some_var evaluated every loop or only the first time? anybody know?
<otters> ok
<joshu> waxjar is that how you would do it have 4 if statements and each statement if true calls a specific method defined in the same file?
<GeorgesLeYeti> otters: :D
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<otters> GeorgesLeYeti: "%06.3f" % 3.01254
<waxjar> joshu: roughly, yeah
<GeorgesLeYeti> otters: ok
<waxjar> RiftyMcF3arless: you shouldn't really use for loops in Ruby :P
<GeorgesLeYeti> otters: ty
<MrZYX> RiftyMcF3arless: one time, but we prefer to do (1..some_var).each do |i| or if some_var is a number some_var.times do |i|
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<RiftyMcF3arless> ok, wow, why does everybody avoid doing it this way if i may ask?
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<RiftyMcF3arless> i've always been a fan of the for i in syntax
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<lupine> there's no reason to avoid for
<joshu> waxjar how does it work if say 3-4 emails are piped to the ruby script within the same timeframe? will the ruby script handle processing each one simultaneously or how does it work?
<r0bglees0n> RiftyMcF3arless: in ruby we use enumerable methods to iterate a collection, for is fine but not an idiom.
<lupine> just as there's no reason to avoid CamelCase variable names ^^
<banisterfiend> lupine: it has weird scoping rules
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<MrZYX> lupine: I hope you mean camlCase variables, CamlCase would be a constant
<banisterfiend> lupine: basically for loop variables dont shadow
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<r0bglees0n> MrZYX: I think it is pastelCase when it is written like that?
<MrZYX> I don't know the names
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<MrZYX> I think there are three or four different ones
<r0bglees0n> i never remember but yeah there is a specific name for it
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<waxjar> joshu, depends a bit on how you're calling it and how you structure your program. generally ruby only doesn one thing at a time
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<RiftyMcF3arless> banisterfiend: can you give a quick rundown on what shadowing is?
<joshu> waxjar the ruby script would be called via a postfix pipe
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<rippa> camelCase (camel case) is a term which refers to the practice of writing compound words where the first letter of an identifier is lowercase and the first letter of each subsequent concatenated word is capitalized.
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<canton7> camelCase, PascalCase, snake_case, SHOUTING_SNAKE_CASE
<r0bglees0n> ah, PascalCase!
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<r0bglees0n> thank you :D
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<canton7> (the difference being the leading capital)
<r0bglees0n> i like pascal case. camel case sucks
<banisterfiend> RiftyMcF3arless: x = "hello"; (1..10).each { |x| x }; x #=> "hello"
<r0bglees0n> banisterfiend: there's a bot for that
<r0bglees0n> >> :blargh
<eval-in> r0bglees0n => :blargh (http://eval.in/30403)
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<banisterfiend> RiftyMcF3arless: that's shadowing, the x local inside the block doesn't clobber the outer x
<canton7> r0bglees0n, thing is, leading caps in ruby = constant
<banisterfiend> RiftyMcF3arless: x = "hello: for x in (1..10); end; x #=> 10
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<r0bglees0n> canton7: yeah, & im fine with that. its local variables or method names in camelCase that bug me.
<banisterfiend> RiftyMcF3arless: that's not shadowing, the x in the loop clobbers the outer x
<canton7> yeah
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<canton7> although in C# i'm fine with it
<banisterfiend> >> x = "hello"; for x in (1..10); end; x
<eval-in> banisterfiend => 10 (http://eval.in/30404)
<canton7> depends on what the stdlib uses for me
<banisterfiend> r0bglees0n: works great
<banisterfiend> r0bglees0n: :P
<banisterfiend> >> x = "hello"; (1..10).each { |x| x }; x
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<eval-in> banisterfiend => "hello" (http://eval.in/30405)
<banisterfiend> >> 1 + 2
<eval-in> banisterfiend => 3 (http://eval.in/30406)
<banisterfiend> RiftyMcF3arless: ok?
<RiftyMcF3arless> banister... didn't know that. seems like a strange way for it to work
<RiftyMcF3arless> okay, thanks for the answers.
<RiftyMcF3arless> so more or less it's "safer" to use enumerable methods
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<Hanmac> INFO
<Hanmac> 19>> x = "hello"; (1..10).each { |x| x }; x
<eval-in> Hanmac => "hello" (http://eval.in/30407)
<Hanmac> 18>> x = "hello"; (1..10).each { |x| x }; x
<eval-in> Hanmac => 10 (http://eval.in/30408)
<r0bglees0n> RiftyMcF3arless: and for isn't normally used unless it is intentional
<r0bglees0n> not used^
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<Scriptonaut> anybody know why the rubygame channel is so dead?
<Scriptonaut> did it move somewhere, or just horribly unpopular
<banisterfiend> RiftyMcF3arless: 'for' is just weird
<r0bglees0n> Scriptonaut: there's a few ruby game programmers around the place
<Hanmac> Scriptonaut: i tihnk the most of us use gosu
<banisterfiend> RiftyMcF3arless: which one is strange?
<Havvy> >> puts "Hello #{ :ruby }"
<eval-in> Havvy => Hello ruby ... (http://eval.in/30409)
<RiftyMcF3arless> the way the for works is strange. don't understand why it clobbers it like that
<RiftyMcF3arless> seems like it should work just like .each
<Scriptonaut> hmm. Well I need to write a socket server/client system for a basic card game. I was gonna write it in python and then use pygame (which I know), but have been thinking of doing it in ruby, and was wondering how different the graphics libraries are
<rippa> it's a punishment
<rippa> for using unholy statement
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<banisterfiend> RiftyMcF3arless: no one uses 'for' anyway
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<canton7> RiftyMcF3arless, for changes the value of the i object on each loop. #each creates a new i object
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<MrZYX> lets call it i variable please :P
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<rippa> 'for' works like 'while'
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<rippa> it doesn't create a new scope
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<rippa> so it's quite logical
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<rippa> if you want a new scope, use iterator
<joshu> waxjar would a new ruby process for the ruby script be created for each piped email?
<waxjar> i don't know joshu, i'm no UNIX wizard :p
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<joshu> waxjar ok no worries
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<RiftyMcF3arless> i remember seeing some code once where somebody had specified a lot of exceptions in an array, i think one prefixed by * (like *EXCEPTIONS), and then rescued them... is this as simple as defining an array 'EXCEPTIONS' with each exception in it (i.e. EXCEPTIONS = [Errono::ENOENT, Errno::ECONNREFUSED]?
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<apeiros> RiftyMcF3arless: yes
<MrZYX> you can just do rescue Errono::ENOENT, Errno::ECONNREFUSED though
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<apeiros> rescue A, B, C --> exceptions = [A, B, C]; … rescue *exceptions
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<MrZYX> hm, I'm curious, when would you want to do that?
<Morrolan> If you catch the same exceptions in a few locations.
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<RiftyMcF3arless> yeah, because im using rescues to return false in some methods, and typing it over and over sucks, and it also looks ugly
<RiftyMcF3arless> apeiros: thanks
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<MrZYX> I guess I'd just wrap the method that's raising them, but okay
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<awc737> is it alright to assign a variable to a ternary if statement?
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<awc737> var = (var == "" ? “it was empty″ : “it was NOT empty″)
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<havenwood> awc737: Yes, that works. Caveats being that the parens are optional, #empty?, and if/else often reads better than ternary.
<awc737> it didn't seem to work for me
<awc737> in codecademy ruby lab
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<Morrolan> Your double quotes aren't proper. ;)
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<havenwood> Mmm, smart quotes are the devil. Text editor ftw.
<awc737> smart quotes?
<Morrolan> The quotes around "it was empty" and "it was not empty" aren't regular quotes but, uh, fancy ones.
<awc737> why thank you
<Morrolan> The kind of quotes which a word processor à la Office inserts.
<awc737> i'm a fancy guy
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<stresler> Hi, I'm a non-ruby dev that has been charged with fixing a simple dependency issue in a ruby api. I've made the change in one of the classes, and it isn't 'taking'. I think this must be some sort of code reuse issue or model cache, but don't know how ruby clears that type of thing. (i.e. I can remove the file throwing the error altogether and the logs still show ti throwing it). Is there some linux command line command to reset this?
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<stresler> (been googling for an hour)
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<pitzips> I'm running into a stupidly simple problem. How do I convert 40 out of 82 to a number out of 100?
<havenwood> stresler: What is the error? Gem dependency issue?
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<stresler> in `require': no such file to load -- json/add/rails (LoadError)
<stresler> Outside of classes changing to :
<stresler> require 'json'
<stresler> works
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<stresler> but in the class it pretends I never changed the line.
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<havenwood> stresler: Using Bundler? Does the project have a Gemfile?
<stresler> I don't know what bundler is. We're using the debian Squeeze package ruby-json
<havenwood> pitzips: Something like: "#{(40.fdiv(82) * 100).round} out of 100"
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<havenwood> #=> "49 out of 100"
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<stresler> I'm mostly confused why it continues to throw the error listing the line number of a specific file even after I've gone so far as to remove the file altogether.
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<pitzips> havenwood: that's awesome. Thank you so much
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<stresler> specifically: "[Wed May 15 14:48:47 2013] [error] mod_ruby: /var/www/proj_api/control/proj_file.class.rb:12:in `require': no such file to load -- json/add/rails (LoadError)" continues to be thrown, even after I've moved proj_file.class
<stresler> I figure there must be some utility ro re-read class files somewhere?
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<MrZYX> stresler: first of all rails issue, ruby is not rails (-> #RubyOnRails). But I guess you fail to restart your appserver after doing the changes and are in production mode so you have no automatic reloading
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<lolmaus> I would like to POST files to Gist.GitHub.com. At first i thought that it is impossible due to Same Domain Policy. But then i found this example: http://jsfiddle.net/vXpCV/ Surprisingly, it works: running that snippet creates a new Gist, as seen in FireBug 'All' console.
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<lolmaus> Questions: 1) Why does that work? 2) Why does it not work when i copy it into my project? :(
<stresler> ah... ok, sorry bout that. LIke I said, I'm a dev but have never touched ruby. Will restart the service, though. Thanks.
<stresler> (I had no idea this was a rails environment.
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<MrZYX> your error even had "rails" in it...
<havenwood> stresler: Looks like json/add/rails is deprecated now as well, but if your Gem versions are fixed in your Gemfile, sokay I guess?
<lolmaus> Oh, wrong channel
<stresler> Welp! It's working now! Thanks.
<stresler> Would never have thought to restart apache
<havenwood> lolmaus: Was gunna say, something funny about your Ruby there. :P
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<lolmaus> havenwood, Ruby is my backend and i'm currently working with GitHub API serverside. But it's limited to 5000 requests per hour, and Ruby's github_api library does not support conditional requests which could work this limitation around. So i'm investigating the possibility of working with GitHub API clientside. GitHub API officially supports GET requests from JavaScript via JSONP, but i also need
<lolmaus> POST requests.
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<havenwood> lolmaus: Ahh, interesting.
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<lolmaus> havenwood, okay, guys at #jquery pointed my nose into the solution: CORS. It's covered by GitHub API docs.
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<stresler> Thanks again havenwood
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<moofy> Could somebody explain to me what attr_reader/writer does to me by any chance? I'm trying to go through a ruby tutorial that's talking about them but i totally don't get what black magic it is they're doing.
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<waxjar> moofy: they define getter and setter methods for an instance variable
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<moofy> Huh?
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<yxhuvud> moofy: attr_reader :foo is roughly equivalent to as def foo; @foo; end, and attr_writer :foo is roughly equivalent to def foo= val; @foo = val; end
<waxjar> instance variables are the variables prefixed with an @. they're not accessible from outside the instance, so you define a method to return its value or change its value. attr_reader/writer/accessor is just a sort of shortcut to do that
<yxhuvud> (or rather the result of calling attr_reader is roughly the same as that method)
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<moofy> so it gives you a way to get at the return value of a method in a class?
<waxjar> no. do you know what instance variables are?
<moofy> yes
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<havenwood> moofy: Here is an example of doing it with plain-ole-methods, with attr_reader/attr_writer, and with attr_accessor: https://gist.github.com/havenwood/5586625
<moofy> but why is it a symbol, rather than an instance variable
<moofy> not attr_reader @thing
<waxjar> attr_reader :ivar defines a method on your class called "ivar" that returns the value of the instance variable @ivar
<havenwood> moofy: The symbol is the name of the method you will be creating to expose the ivar of the same name.
<havenwood> moofy: Methods are stored as symbols internally on structs.
<moofy> so it's like an implicit method kindof?
<yxhuvud> moofy: because if you do attr_reader @thing, then attr_reader will use the value of @thing
<havenwood> moofy: It is syntactic sugar that makes the code shorter and more readable.
<moofy> Okay.
<moofy> This always seems to be where i stumble
<havenwood> moofy: Only of use if you want a getter/setter of the same name as an existing ivar.
<moofy> where it's not really obvious that something is a shortcut for something else
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<moofy> keep finding things that say 'do this' without saying why :/
<havenwood> moofy: attrs seem hardly intuitive to me, but once you get used to attr_reader and attr_accessor they make understanding code quicker and are a helpful idiom
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<waxjar> attr_reader and friends are a lot faster than defining the methods yourself.
<moofy> it's just the symbol threw me
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<waxjar> plus it keeps your code shorter and cleaner
<moofy> the two just seemed unrelated
<moofy> it's like, for ages i couldn't work out that things in |value| could be whatever
<moofy> i thought they had to be some reference to what you were doing
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<havenwood> moofy: Yeah, the symbol refers to the method you are creating. You'll often see methods referred to as symbols, since they are under the hood. E.g.: send :puts, 'hi'
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<yxhuvud> moofy: symbols are identifiers, that is - name of things.
<moofy> where as @thing stands for any number of possible things?
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<yxhuvud> well, it stands for whatever is stored in the variable
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<moofy> but i mean it could stand for whatever is stored for each time you called that method
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<yxhuvud> yes
<moofy> okay.
<moofy> the gist was great.
<waxjar> yeah, @thing is just a variable, accessible to the instance of a class
<Hanmac> >> i = Symbol.all_symbols.size; def abc;end; Symbol.all_symbols.size - i
<eval-in> Hanmac => 0 (http://eval.in/30448)
<moofy> fist time i've seen it actually explained with that detail
<yxhuvud> waxjar: well, everything is an instance of one class or another.
<moofy> might actually let me try rails again without just thinking what the hell is going on
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<Hanmac> >> i = Symbol.all_symbols.size; class A;attr_accessor "hey";end; Symbol.all_symbols.size - i
<eval-in> Hanmac => 2 (http://eval.in/30449)
<waxjar> yxhuvud, almost anything, yeah
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<moofy> Thank you so much for the help.
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<chiel> a question of grammer... when two parties enter into a contract, how are they referred to? contractor and contractee, or?
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<apeiros> I'd say so, but I don't speak english as my mother tongue
<chiel> yeah me neither. :(
<Animawish> contractor and contractee wouldn't be wrong
<tockitj_> rcontractor && rconcratee
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<chiel> like naming stuff in programming isn't already hard enough :p
<apeiros> indeed
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<waxjar> party_one and party_two :p
<chiel> haha :p
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<daniel_-> anyone can help me? Im getting: rake aborted!
<daniel_-> constant Logger::Format not defined
<daniel_-> when I type something with "rake ..." in my terminal
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<apeiros> Xeago: ping
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<MisterPostIT> hi all. i have little question. i was wondering weather a colon serves the same purpose as quotes when assigning a value to an array. i.e. - is my_array[:value] = true equal to my_array['value'] = true
<apeiros> whether
<apeiros> weather is the stuff in the sky
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<apeiros> and no
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<apeiros> also you're not having an array
<apeiros> you have a hash
<apeiros> and :value and 'value' are keys. and they are different keys.
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<apeiros> you can test with .eql?, which is what Hash uses to determine equality of keys.
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<apeiros> >> :value.eql?('value')
<eval-in> apeiros => false (http://eval.in/30450)
<apeiros> >> [:value.class, 'value'.class]
<eval-in> apeiros => [Symbol, String] (http://eval.in/30451)
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<MisterPostIT> okay, thanks… are they different keys only for assertion purposes, or does the colon actually 'do' anything is what i am getting at.
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<chiel> so in a ruby project.. say i want to keep source directories for my sass and javascript stuff, so that i can build it etc into the /public directory... where would you most commonly put the source files for the css and js in a ruby project?
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<chiel> (using sinatra)
<MisterPostIT> i mean i realise that :value and 'value' are not the same, but what i am trying to find out is if the colon is just the preference or convention a certain programmer might use over the quote, or wether there are other reasons or advantages behind using a colon instead...
<chiel> is there any kinda convention with that?
<apeiros> MisterPostIT: the colon doesn't "do" anything
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<apeiros> MisterPostIT: just as the quotes for a string don't "do" anything
<apeiros> the colon is part of the Symbol literal
<apeiros> just as quotes are part of a String literal
<chiel> MisterPostIT: the colon makes it a symbol, which is cheaper than a string to use
<apeiros> and digits are part of Integer literals
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<chiel> symbols can also look :'like this'
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<MisterPostIT> okay, got it. thanks very much for your help guys!!!
<C0deMaver1ck> symbols were one of the harder things to wrap my head around when I first learned Ruby
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<apeiros> I don't get why people have such an issue with symbols
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<apeiros> they're not that different from strings or integers
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<C0deMaver1ck> well I mean it seems so simple to me now
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<C0deMaver1ck> I just didn't get why they existed back then
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<apeiros> they exist because of internals, and they're exposed because of optimization
<Luyt> I made a transcript of DHH's interview for FLOSS79, about his history as a programmer and what he likes about Ruby, see http://www.transcribed-interview.com/dhh-rails-david-heinemeier-hansson-interview-randal-schwartz-floss.html
<C0deMaver1ck> until I realized Ruby makes new objects for every string, whereas :symbols are created once
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<Havvy> C0deMaver1ck: Look as Erlang too.
<Havvy> If you want another language with symbols.
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<banister`shop> Luyt: that's an extremely old interview :)
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<Luyt> banister`shop: From 2009, yes
<Luyt> But the views are still fresh
<Havvy> C0deMaver1ck: Personally, as a non-Rubyist (I'm only looking at Ruby to see it's metaprogramming), I find symbols are useful because it doesn't make sense to slice a symbol.
<Luyt> Java is *still* too verbose, and Ruby is *still* cool.
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<banister`shop> Luyt: anyway, nice work :)
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<banister`shop> Luyt: did you manually type it out?
<Havvy> A symbol is a unit, and units are indivisible. Strings are a collection (either of numbers or of characters), and thus are divisible.
<Luyt> banister`shop: It was indeed a hell of a job. All done manually, indeed.
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<banister`shop> Luyt: i was kind of unimpressed at his distain towards C
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<Luyt> banister`shop: DHH doesn't like to 'dick around' with pointers.
<Luyt> Well, as a developer, you can choose for that.
<Havvy> Does anybody like to 'dick around' with pointers?
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<banister`shop> Luyt: if you dont know C you're always reliant on someone else to fix a bug in a C extension/C library..ruby has a large enough C-extension ecosystem that it's a real issue
<Luyt> I programmed C and C++ for years, and I don't have an aversion to pointers, TBH.
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<banister`shop> Luyt: AKA "i dont understand pointers!" :)
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<Luyt> banister`shop: I think he pretty well knows what pointers are, but pointers are not something that he needs to satisfy his business goals.
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<banister`shop> sure, invest a couple of days properly trying to grok them and there's very little "dicking around" you ever have to do
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<Luyt> Actually, I come from a C/C++ background and I also enjoy modern languages where you don't have to worry about pointers and references anymore, but can just get the thing done.
<Havvy> banister`shop: Pointers aren't a hard thing to grasp. They are a hard thing to use because they always get in the way.
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<Luyt> I be damned if it takes 1 minute or 20 minutes to run the program, what counts is the time I need to code it up.
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<Luyt> With modern dynamic languages I arrive at a satisfactionary solution much quicker than I did in the past with C or C++
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<banister`shop> Havvy: i've honestly never found that, and i assume u're not talking about pointers per se you're talking about manual memory management?
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<banister`shop> Luyt: i'm talking about the situation where you cannot use Ruby
<Havvy> Probably both.
<Luyt> There's something as the 'Blub paradox'. If you know Blub, then any language lower than Blub looks weaker to you
<Havvy> C is both weaker and stronger than most languages out there.
<banister`shop> Luyt: the rationale i gave for learning C is being able to debug and fix problems in 3rd party libraries without having to wait for someone else to do it for you
<Luyt> where any language more powerful than Blub looks like some magic language which you cannot understand
<banister`shop> and ruby relies heavily on 3rd party C extensions
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<Havvy> This is why you should learn more languages than just Blub. ;)
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<banister`shop> when they break, and they often do, all you can do (if u dont know C) is winge and complain until someone else fixes it for you
<banister`shop> that's kind of lame
<Luyt> http://www.paulgraham.com/avg.html (interesting read about the Blub Paradox)
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<Luyt> "The safest kind were the ones that wanted Oracle experience. You never had to worry about those."
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<banister`shop> Luyt: also, if you want do any *nix systems programming, at least knowing C (being able to read it) means you have a tonne of documentation at your disposal
<Luyt> banister`shop: I agree with you, C knowledge is a pillar, esr recommends it also
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<banister`shop> Luyt: what is esr?
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<nightfly__> Can you check if a module exists before requiring it?
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<Luyt> banister`shop: 'esr' is http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eric_S._Raymond
<heath> https://gist.github.com/anonymous/51235398d3824d37da12#file-recursive_monkey-rb-L19 ...::... "recursive_monkey.rb:19:in `go_monkey_go': undefined method `+' for nil:NilClass (NoMethodError)
<heath> from recursive_monkey.rb:53:in `<main>'"
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<Spooner> nightfly__, if defined? ModuleName
<heath> is there some way to declare the variable as a global?
<heath> global count_of_all_attempts, attempts #e.g.
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<heath> to access the variable from within the function
<Spooner> heath, Yes, $var is a global (though you are better using a class with class instance variables, but if you don't want to go oop...)
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<nightfly__> The module wont be loaded yet, I'm trying to gracefully detect if modules like json are installed/available to the environment
<Spooner> heath, You also probably want: puts "beginng time: #{beginning_time}"
<Spooner> Use interpolation rather than addition of strings.
<heath> thanks Spooner
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<heath> i'm in the process of translating that from python
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<Spooner> I use python too and use classes there ;)
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<heath> hah :)
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<Luyt> I'm logging, have to rise early tomorrow, cya laters.
<heath> i'll convert it to a class for ya
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<Spooner> heath, Interpolation also has an implicit #to_s, so saves you doing that yourself.
<Spooner> nightfly__, Well, Ruby comes with JSON, so it isn't a good example.
<heath> for?.. sorry, i'm not following
<heath> not seeing a to_s
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<heath> instead of splatting a dollar symbol before each method, i can splat the @ symbol can keep the scope within the class, huh?
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<Spooner> heath, If you continued to do "str" + num you need to do "str" + num.to_s (like "str" + str(num) in Python), but you can just do "str #{num}"
<nightfly__> Spooner: working with old solaris with old ruby. Found LoadError though, kinda gross but is good enough for I need.
<Spooner> nightfly__, Applications should be using bundler anyway...
<Spooner> heath, Yeah, effectively the same (@ivar in a class compared to $global outside)
<nightfly__> Spooner: this is for a facter fact for puppet
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<Spooner> Oh right, that isn't proper Ruby. Anyway, yes, catching LoadError is probably your best bet then.
<heath> #{$count_of_all_attempts} if i'm using globals?
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<Spooner> heath, Yeah. You can use #{@ivar} or #@ivar though.
<heath> converted to string interpolation for the puts statements
<Spooner> Right.
<heath> oh, i was saying, i did that :)
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<heath> didn't know you could do #@ivar instead of #{@ivar}
<Spooner> And yeah, ruby puts is like python print. Our print doesn't add a newline.
<heath> \n added
<Spooner> I generally use #{} anyway, so I don't have to remember that very specific case :0
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<waxjar> looks clearer too, imo
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<heath> the recursive monkey looks a little ugly: https://gist.github.com/heath/2dc26e51dd7646816365
<heath> am i using the $ correctly?
<heath> i'm assuming if the attributes were moved into a class, i'd just be replacing all the $ symbols with "@"
* heath realizes new Time.new is invalid also :)
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* heath is accustomed to new Date() in js :)
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<apeiros> Time.now
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<apeiros> Time.new is valid
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<apeiros> ah, new before Time.new. syntactically valid actually :-p
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<mhd> Classes have their name automagically assigned from the constant they are assigned to. How do I get that feature in my own data type?
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<waxjar> I think you'll have to fork Ruby and write that feature yourself :(
<apeiros> mhd: I don't think you can
<mhd> darn
<mhd> that would be hella neat
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<digital-ghost> Has anyone used the gem 'jira-ruby' to get Jira and a Rails app to communicate? I can't find any functional examples of how to use this gem.
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<heath> any ideas on why it just exits?
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<heath> python stops because it has a restriction set for maximum depth of a call stack
<heath> but ruby? surewry ruby doesn't have this
<waxjar> the if clause doesn't match?
<waxjar> wait that was stupid i need some sleep. lol
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<heath> appreciated nevertheless :)
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<apeiros> heath: go_monkey_go() goes into go_monkey_go, matches if $generated_text != $desired_text, doesn't match if $attempts.length > 100 && …expr…, exits
<apeiros> that's why I'd say
<apeiros> I'd assume that && in line 24 is a bug, and I'd add an `else` there to verify.
<apeiros> and I'd assume on line 25 you wanted $attempts instead of attempts.
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<heath> the && wasn't intended to be there, nice catch
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<Havvy> So, Metaprogramming Ruby is probably the most fun programming book I've read.
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<Havvy> (The cool thing is, is that this is the first day I've actually looked at Ruby, and yet I understand and can anticipate the factual knowledge he's spewing just from the little synax I've seen)
<apeiros> Havvy: nice!
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<Havvy> You can completely redefine String?
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<apeiros> theoretically, yes
<apeiros> practically there are limits
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<apeiros> i.e. you can't change how literals work
<Havvy> >> String = nil; String.new(3)
<eval-in> Havvy => /tmp/execpad-846c2650054e/source-846c2650054e:2: warning: already initialized constant String ... (http://eval.in/30466)
<Havvy> Yeah, I figured you can't change the literals.
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<apeiros> >> require 'stringio'; x = String; $stderr = StringIO.new; String = nil; x.new.class
<eval-in> apeiros => #<Class:0x40f36c3c> (http://eval.in/30467)
<apeiros> funky, didn't know it lost the name in the process
<apeiros> I think that's not how it used to be
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<Havvy> >> require 'stringio'; x = String; $stderr = StringIO.new; x.new.class
<eval-in> Havvy => String (http://eval.in/30468)
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<Havvy> Would I be right in saying that Ruby doesn't really have constants?
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<Havvy> In all the ways that JS doesn't have constants.
<apeiros> depends
<apeiros> it kinda does not
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<apeiros> constant refers to "it constantly references the same object"
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<apeiros> but since it still actually allows changing the reference, not even that is really true
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<Havvy> It just seems to be a convention in the interpreter.
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<mhd> Is it possible to unfreeze when cloning?
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<apeiros> mhd: not in vanilla ruby
<apeiros> dup will unfreeze
<mhd> damn again
<mhd> oh, neat
<apeiros> but dup doesn't copy the singleton class
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<Havvy> Why are functions not attached to objects still called methods in the Pickaxe book?
<banister`shop> Havvy: because it is attached to an object
<Havvy> What is the name of this object?
<banister`shop> the Object object :)
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<Raydiation> does partial function application work with lambdas?
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<Zakaria> Havvy: function in OOP called Method
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<Havvy> banister`shop: As an instance method or a static method?
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<BonSequitur> That's a good question actually. How does one (usually) do currying in Ruby?
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<Havvy> Zakaria: A method is a function attached to an object.
<banister`shop> Havvy: Object
<Zakaria> Yes
<banister`shop> Raydiation: #curry ? yeah
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<Raydiation> iirc python has function tools
<banister`shop> Havvy: instance
<banister`shop> Havvy: so it's available everywhere
<BonSequitur> Oh, wow, Proc.curry. I never knew that existed. This is awesome.
<Havvy> >> def my_method puts "hi" end; Object.new().methods()
<eval-in> Havvy => /tmp/execpad-cbcca52e9c28/source-cbcca52e9c28:2: syntax error, unexpected tSTRING_BEG, expecting ';' or '\n' ... (http://eval.in/30469)
<banister`shop> any method you define at 'top level' becomes an instance method of Object, so it's available everywhere
<banister`shop> hence it *looks* like a function
<banister`shop> since any object can call it just as my_method()
<BonSequitur> Since everything is an object, every function has to be a method of something.
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<Havvy> So effectively, all Ruby files are surrounded by `class Object # your file # end`?
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<banister`shop> no
<Havvy> Alright. Then what is the syntactical sugar I should apply?
<Havvy> Err, unapply. ;)
<Raydiation> btw that overwriting methods stuff looks like js prototyping
<Raydiation> but ruby isnt prototyped based programming right
<banister`shop> >> def my_method;end; Object.private_instance_methods
<eval-in> banister`shop => [:my_method, :initialize_copy, :initialize_dup, :initialize_clone, :sprintf, :format, :Integer, :Float, :String, :Array, :Hash, :warn, :raise, :fail, :global_variables, :__method__, :__callee__, :__dir ... (http://eval.in/30470)
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<banister`shop> >> def my_method;end; Object.private_instance_methods(false)
<eval-in> banister`shop => [:my_method] (http://eval.in/30471)
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<banister`shop> Havvy: ^
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<Havvy> So I should wrap top level defs with class Object then?
<Havvy> Instead of the entire file.
<banister`shop> Havvy: first of all, it's highly discouraged to define methods on Object
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<Havvy> I can imagine.
<Raydiation> so this isnt the same as python functions?
<banister`shop> Havvy: secondly, there's a slight difference to defining a method at top-level vs just opening Object and defining a method there -- methods defined at top-level are private by default
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<banister`shop> Raydiation: it's not the same, it's the opposite actually
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<banister`shop> in python everything is a function that are just bound to objects (and it even has an explicit 'self' indicating to waht it's bound)
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<banister`shop> in ruby, it's exactl the opposite, everthing is a *method*
<Raydiation> Go does this similarly i think
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<banister`shop> you can sometimes treat them as if they're functions, but they're not really the same
<Raydiation> i see so you wont write it them as some kind of utility function
<banister`shop> when i sahy 'everything' im just referring to methods/functions sry :)
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<Raydiation> would you use them for things that need only to be done in that file?
<banister`shop> Raydiation: if you want to do that, you put them in a module
<banister`shop> a module is a bag of methods
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<Raydiation> i see
<Raydiation> do you use this for classes too?
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<Raydiation> as some kind of namespace maybe
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<Raydiation> is it also possible to do anon objects btw?
<Havvy> >> {a: 1, b: 2}.keys
<eval-in> Havvy => [:a, :b] (http://eval.in/30472)
<Havvy> Raydiation: Yes.
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<banister`shop> Raydiation: anon objects?
<Raydiation> classes*
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<mhd> Raydiation: Class.new
<banister`shop> >> there's many ways, i guess a 'hash' is an anonymous object in the js sense?
<banister`shop> err
<eval-in> banister`shop => /tmp/execpad-acfe8d952929/source-acfe8d952929:2: syntax error, unexpected tIDENTIFIER, expecting keyword_end ... (http://eval.in/30474)
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<banister`shop> Havvy: ^
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<Raydiation> Havvy: does this notation work for methods too?
<banister`shop> Raydiation: no, you'd do this
<Havvy> Oh, for classes. No clue.
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<Havvy> Like I said at the beginning of my discussion. This is my first day looking at Ruby.
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<Raydiation> didnt read that
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<Raydiation> im normally working with python, js, coffee and php
<Raydiation> but there cucumber so i need to get into ruby as well
<Raydiation> theres*
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<Havvy> coffee :(
<Raydiation> ?
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<Havvy> I can read the most obtuse JS. I can't read any Coffeescript.
<Raydiation> cuts my code size in half
<Havvy> Code size doesn't matter. ;)
<Havvy> Abstractions matter.
<waxjar> it's the width that matters
<banister`shop> Havvy: coffee is easy
<Raydiation> why? :) less lines less to read
<banister`shop> Havvy: javascript is a mess IMO
<Havvy> It is a mess. I'll give you that.
<Raydiation> javascript is just missing features
<Havvy> But Coffeescript doesn't clean up the mess.
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<Raydiation> and proper scoping
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<banister`shop> Havvy: a language that uses anonymous functions *everywhere* has the world's most verbose anonymous function syntax
<Havvy> Yes.
<banister`shop> Havvy: just plain dumb IMO
<Raydiation> hell yeah
<Raydiation> coffe +1
<Raydiation> just use ->
<waxjar> you can use it in Ruby now too :D
<Raydiation> ohrly?
<Havvy> If I were to write a JS-like language, I'd actually get rid of var.
<Havvy> function (args... | new, scope, bindings) { /* stuff */ }
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<banister`shop> Havvy: coffeescript does get rid of var
<Raydiation> every block should create a new scope
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<Raydiation> also lambdas in ruby should look like: x -> x + 1
<waxjar> ->(x) { x + 1 } is what they look like i think
<banister`shop> they look like this: -> x { x + 1 }
<banister`shop> :)
<Raydiation> is this new?
<waxjar> new-ish
<r0bglees0n> as new as 1.9
<Raydiation> only found stuff with lambda keyword + return
<waxjar> i prefer that one actually
<Raydiation> why? its more to write ;D
<Raydiation> also i think its pretty clear
<waxjar> can't get any clearer than "lambda" for a lambda :P
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<Raydiation> well you dont write function but def
<Raydiation> no need to be over verbose
<waxjar> you use def to define a method
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<Raydiation> ok, method :)
<Raydiation> also ruby tends to overly shorten stuff
<Raydiation> like to_s or gsub
<Havvy> gsub is global substitute?
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<Raydiation> iir its the same as js .replace()
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<otters> it's js replace(/.../g)
<mstksg> i remember all those years ago when ruby seemed to foreign and bizarre to me, but now when i'm learning new languages and technologies, returning to ruby feels like returning home. in fact it's the only language that gives me that feleing of home.
<Raydiation> haskell especially
<Raydiation> they took every operator and changed it
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<waxjar> hmm?
<Raydiation> ++ for instance
<Raydiation> or $
<Raydiation> ++ is concat
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<Havvy> >> 3++
<eval-in> Havvy => /tmp/execpad-83b2d63b91e0/source-83b2d63b91e0:3: syntax error, unexpected keyword_end (http://eval.in/30475)
<Havvy> :P
<Raydiation> >> 3+=1
<eval-in> Raydiation => /tmp/execpad-8314a82bf206/source-8314a82bf206:2: syntax error, unexpected tOP_ASGN, expecting keyword_end ... (http://eval.in/30476)
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<Raydiation> ah right xD
<Raydiation> assignment
<Havvy> Raydiation: += :P
<Havvy> >> x = 4; x++;
<eval-in> Havvy => /tmp/execpad-1aeea4b3b727/source-1aeea4b3b727:2: syntax error, unexpected ';' (http://eval.in/30477)
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<Raydiation> mstksg: you should try python :)
<Raydiation> less weird than ruby
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<havenwood> Crush the snake.
<mstksg> raydiation: python is obscene to me now
<mstksg> raydiation: :| everything is so weird
<Xeago> python doesn't pull me as much
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<Xeago> I keep returning to ruby
<Raydiation> i think its more conservative
<Xeago> python feels weird!
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<mstksg> i was exposed to python before ruby but never really got inot it
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<Havvy> Python has a nice iteration syntax for the year 2000-2009.
<banister`shop> Raydiation: i dunno, every other language has descent anonymous functions now, python is being left far behind
<Havvy> But this is 2013.
<Xeago> python has a reasonable lambda?
<banister`shop> Raydiation: even java, C#, and go have good anonymous function syntax
<Xeago> better than js..
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<banister`shop> python's anon functions are a joke
<banister`shop> decent*
<Xeago> wouldn't know, only wrote 109 lines of python
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<Xeago> syntax was better than js
<Xeago> for sure
<banister`shop> Xeago: i dont think so..js ones are at least multiline :)
<Xeago> gotcha :P
<banister`shop> python should just steal coffeescript's anon functions
<Raydiation> +1
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<Havvy> Python's lambdas can only be a single expression, right?
<Raydiation> think so
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<banister`shop> Xeago: yeah but python lambdas can only contain expressions, not statements, as a result they can only be very simple things
<Raydiation> funtools are also a bit weird
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<Raydiation> functools*
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<Raydiation> "Guido, at least back when he was in charge, said that there will never be multi-line lambdas; it's impractical given Python's whitespace-based code blocks to implement them in a way that's readable and unambiguous."
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<banister`shop> Raydiation: CS ftw :)
<Raydiation> yeah cs does some really nice things :)
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<mstksg> raydiation python just isn't meant for functional programming
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<mstksg> not a fault, of course
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