apeiros changed the topic of #ruby to: Ruby 2.1.0; 2.0.0-p353; 1.9.3-p484: http://ruby-lang.org || Paste >3 lines of text on http://gist.github.com || this channel is logged at http://irclog.whitequark.org, other public logging is prohibited
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<lagweezle> Well, SOMEONE doesn't like 37 signals...
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<benzrf> hue
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<benzrf> dhh is an insufferable prick
<benzrf> from what ive heard anyway
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<xybre> enape_101: that would be cool except they link to Skype
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<lagweezle> hue / dhh ?
<xybre> oh sorry, benzrf rather
<benzrf> lagweezle: hue = brazillian laugh
<benzrf> lagweezle: dhh = rails dude
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<xybre> Seriously though, Campfire is pretty terrible compared to HipChat or.. I dunno IRC.
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<benzrf> hipchat?
<xybre> I still think IRC is better, but hipchat is fine, at least there's a decent android app.
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<lagweezle> benzrf: Ah!
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<sdelmore> Can anyone point me to how I would add support for awesome print to my objects. When I ap MyObject right now the output is poor.
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<sdelmore> I figure there must be some method I can add to specify pretty printing but I can't find it in the docs.
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<xybre> sdelmore: This looks like where the "magic" happens: https://github.com/michaeldv/awesome_print/blob/master/lib/awesome_print/formatter.rb#L63
<xybre> AwesomePrint is nice, but the way it does its job is very nearly an atrocity.
<manacit> lol
<sdelmore> Thanks xybre
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<benzrf> man i need a god damn project
<benzrf> >:o
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<gizmore> How can i get the query count for ActiveRecord? (statistics for a ruby bot)
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<centrx> gizmore, "query count"?
<gizmore> centrx: the number of queries issued so far
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<gizmore> i want statistics... total query count, queries per second, etc
<gizmore> for the irc bot
<gizmore> my php bot was down to 4-5 queries per second... the ruby one should be same
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<gizmore> so cache hits should not be counted i guess
<apeiros> gizmore: I'd ask in #rubyonrails
<gizmore> i did
<gizmore> seems a hard task
<gizmore> and uncommon
<apeiros> oh, you're a cross poster. nice.
<centrx> gizmore, I don't know, you can add something to logger or "LogSubscriber"
<gizmore> sounds wrong... i´ll maybe monkeypatch ActiveRecord :)
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<gizmore> i extended class Thread for statistics
<gizmore> http://cxg.de/_4a24e1.htm (own thread class that stores a peak for threadcount)
<gizmore> now it can print already: Threads: 4 (max 12)
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<centrx> gizmore, See also https://github.com/rails/rails-observers
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<gizmore> thanks you. it seems ugly, as i have googled that stuff. but thanks a lot
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<gizmore> yes thanks... that´s the ugly one i mentioned... seems i have to go this route
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<AntelopeSalad> i wonder if there's a better way because it does seem like an interesting stat to have
<AntelopeSalad> maybe you could just log each query in the logger and process the log file?
<AntelopeSalad> if you stream your logs to something like elastic search it should be possible to get real time metrics
<AntelopeSalad> gizmore ^
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<gizmore> AntelopeSalad: bad idea... performance... :P
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<AntelopeSalad> how do you figure?
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<AntelopeSalad> logging to stdout isn't slow
<gizmore> stdout is for my eye to watch the traffic :)
<gizmore> the best way is to have a counter in ActiveRecord::Connection
<gizmore> simply as that
<AntelopeSalad> no, it's the super standard way to log things so they can be processed by other tools
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<gizmore> the tool here is the dev :P
<AntelopeSalad> what happens if you have 15 app servers and you need to hunt down a specific request
<AntelopeSalad> you wouldn't go trolling around log files looking for it right?
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<AntelopeSalad> the idea is you hook something up to read the logs, you don't watch it with your eyes
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<gizmore> stdout for my bot is in/out traffic
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<gizmore> more complex setups are planned via websocket providers and consumers
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<centrx> gizmore, This is going to be some sweet bot
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<gizmore> centrx: i know
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<gizmore> (kinda) threading (default ruby) --- code reloading --- ruby <3
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<AntelopeSalad> gizmore: i think you're missing the big picture, check this out https://github.com/logstash/logstash
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<gizmore> i won´t log mysql queries
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<gizmore> if i wanted query logging i turn it on in mysql
<gizmore> or postgres or whatever
<gizmore> the bot itself has own binary db log
<gizmore> for in/out traffic
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<AntelopeSalad> you were talking about active record query counts and QPS
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<gizmore> AntelopeSalad: yes, and someone suggested some logging stuff... logging is usually minimized in production
<gizmore> http://cxg.de/_b04391.htm (Ricer Binlog stuff fyi)
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<AntelopeSalad> logging is maximized in production because you want as much data as possible to collect
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<gizmore> nope, it is tuned for performance so you can handle 1000 mmo players
<gizmore> see old php version of mmo in action in #shadowlamb :)
<AntelopeSalad> there are tons of people doing 100 million+ log events a day through logstash
<benzrf> stop pluggin >:(
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<gizmore> AntelopeSalad: good point, but lets get back to the real question.... why is there no ActiveRecord::CurrentConnection.querycount :P
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<AntelopeSalad> probably because most people would log that and analyze that data on their own
<gizmore> i love websites who print that value at bottom
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<AntelopeSalad> also that data needs to be persisted somewhere
<AntelopeSalad> i mean, what happens when you restart your app, then its count would be reset
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<gizmore> well... how about monkeypatching
<gizmore> i was clever and used bundle install --path /vendor/bundle
<gizmore> so i have activerecord in IDE \o/
<gizmore> and i think i can patch DatabaseStatement.query(sql, name = nil) or similiar
<AntelopeSalad> or you could use an ide that knows how to read libs off your path heh
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<gizmore> AntelopeSalad: I use AptanaStudio :(
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<keppy> Anyone know how to access return value of method fired by state_machine transition?
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<keppy> for testing purposes, not an issue in the system
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<gizmore> http://cxg.de/_687917.htm (Querycount monkeypatching mysql2)
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<Oog> ruby smtp docs say net/smtp raises Net::OpenTimeout but im geting Timeout::Error - ideas?
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<gizmore> Oog: i am just guessing here.... but maybe those are two different exceptions... one is ConnectTimeout, the other ResponseTimeout?
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<gizmore> the exception classnames will vary, but i named them Connect and Response for pseudehelp
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<Oog> well i set open_timeout to 5 and it is at 5 secondsthe exception is happening
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<Oog> if i change open_timeout it changes when the exception happens
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<Oog> bnot a big problem but it seems odd - wonder if its a bug
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<gizmore> [03:21:00] <gizmore> .perf
<gizmore> [03:21:00] <ricer> Memory: 75.3 KB (75.3 KB max). DB: 59 queries in 23.094187186 (2.55 queries per second). Threads: 2 (2 max).
<gizmore> win \o/
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<gizmore> thousand times better than php
<gizmore> php is horrible for perfomance
<lagweezle> Auuuugh! >.<
<lagweezle> Anyone about that is skilled with RSpec mock / stub? >.<
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<lagweezle> gizmore: heh, ricer ^^
<gizmore> :)
<gizmore> best bot ever
<gizmore> i was expecting like 10qps for little tests...
<lagweezle> What is it built on? What's it do? ^^
<gizmore> it´s built on rails
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<gizmore> and from scratch
<gizmore> i am sure my own irc bot experience does better than any irc lib
<AntelopeSalad> 2.5 seconds per query?
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<AntelopeSalad> wait i'm dumb
<gizmore> queries per second
<gizmore> the old php bot was like 4-5 for 22 networks
<AntelopeSalad> yeah that was a "why don't you goto sleep, you've been up for 20 hours" comment
<benzrf> yo
<benzrf> AntelopeSalad: goto considered harmfuk
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<benzrf> *harmful
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<benzrf> make sleep a method
<lagweezle> benzrf: I think I like 'harmfuk' better.
<benzrf> lol
<benzrf> I need something useful to make o_O
<lagweezle> It more aptly describes the attitude that should be taken towars gogo statements.
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<lagweezle> A mixin is when you "include Some::Module" ?
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<RubyTitmouse> Ruby gogo, is that a new club?
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<RubyTitmouse> $ grep -r 'goto' ruby/ | wc -l
<RubyTitmouse> 3123
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<jherman3> I'm using RICE for a C++ extension and, on my laptop, it works fine. If I transfer the compiled .so file to another computer, use irb, and do require 'mylib', it says no such file or directory: /tmp/mylib.so. However, the file exists and the path is correct
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<RubyTitmouse> jherman3: you need to load it with "load" instead of "require", or else better, build a gem whose init calls load
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<jherman3> require works on this machine? Would it be different on the other one?
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<jherman3> Typo first one wasn't a question
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<benzrf> RubyTitmouse: why are you now a titmouse?
<RubyTitmouse> peep. peep peep
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<RubyTitmouse> When the snow melts, I'll change it back lol
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<RubyTitmouse> jherman3: typically you would never move a .so between machines, maybe not everything is as much the same as you thought?
<jherman3> True. I just moved it to avoid rebuilding it but I'll try sending the source over and recompiling
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<jherman3> Rebuilding it on the other machine worked; thanks
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<shabgard> can somebody tell me what &: operator is?
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<lagweezle> shabgard: Rather, http://stackoverflow.com/a/1961118/1877426
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<shabgard> lagweezle,tnx but I still don't understand what happens in this case: names.sort_by(&:downcase)
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<shabgard> names is an array ofcource
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<agarie> names.sort_by { |name| name.downcase }
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<agarie> it's just a shortcut
<shabgard> I know what it does but can't relate it
<lagweezle> Case insensitive sort?
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<lagweezle> Or sort and convert everything to lower case in one go..?
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<shabgard> case insensitive sort
<agarie> hmmm, well, you use `&` when you want to use a Proc as a block in a method
<agarie> so it's related
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<agarie> but I agree the syntax seems very strange, specially if you never used a Proc this way
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<shabgard> can u make rewrite it with to_proc ?
<agarie> Not sure
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<agarie> brb
<shabgard> ok
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<existensil> shabgard: does this help illuminate what's going on?
<existensil> names.sort_by{|name| :downcase.to_proc.call(name) }
<existensil> that's equivilent
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<existensil> so is this, sort of: puts names.sort_by{|name| :downcase.to_proc.call(name) }.inspect
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<existensil> oops
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<existensil> downcase = Proc.new{ |str| str.downcase }; names.sort_by(&downcase)
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<benzrf> redo
<shabgard> existensil, I actually found a really elegant description here: http://stackoverflow.com/a/2697187/888621
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<shabgard> ruby is really beautiful <3
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<existensil> yes it is :-) sometimes shocking how expressive it can be
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<shabgard> why downcase is not :downcase?
<shabgard> existensil,
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<dgmax98>
<dgmax98>
<dgmax98>
<dgmax98>
<dgmax98>
<dgmax98>
<dgmax98>
<dgmax98>
<dgmax98>
<dgmax98>
<dgmax98>
<benzrf> stop
<dgmax98>
<dgmax98>
<dgmax98>
<dgmax98> h
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<benzrf> for fucks sake
<agent_white> This isn't python!
<benzrf> ಠ_ಠ
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<shabgard> who issued a clrscr command?
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<shabgard> or clear in ruby :D
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<lagweezle> KEYBOARD CAN HAZ CAT BUTT!
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<LLKCKfan> Is there any natural ways to relieve pain without using herbs or weed? No drugs
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<centrx> LLKCKfan, :(
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<RubyTitmouse> agent_white: lmao!
<RubyTitmouse> LLKCKfan: meditation
<LLKCKfan> Does not help
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<RubyTitmouse> Probably not without 10-15 years of practice, no
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<benzrf> bye
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<agent_white> how about things?
<agent_white> mt :D
<zenNamaste> howdy, I want to check if dir1 is a subdir of dir2. in unix, the separator is "\". So it's not a good idea if I use # if dir1 =~ /^#{dir2}/# any idea? thanks.
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<zenNamaste> centrx: thanks!
<centrx> You are welcome
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<zenNamaste> centrx: great! Thanks tons!
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<zenNamaste> I get following outputs: http://ix.io/aok by `ret.each {|k, v| print "#{v[0]}\t | #{k}\t\t\t\t +#{v[1]}, -#{v[2]}\n"}`
<LLKCKfan> Is there any natural ways to relieve pain without using herbs or weed? No drugs
<zenNamaste> however, is there a good way to make the latest row indented?
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<centrx> zenNamaste, You could use String#rjust
<centrx> zenNamaste, There is also a more cohesive way to do it with printf
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<zenNamaste> centrx: I'll search it. thanks.
<centrx> or something like printf, I can't find the doc for it right now
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<zenNamaste> centrx: ljust and rjust work well for me. many thanks!
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<gizmore> is there a short form for: hash[:min] = hash[:min].to_i
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<centrx> gizmore, I doubt it
<gizmore> would be fun, no?
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<gizmore> like hash[:min] := :to_i
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<centrx> :P
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<gizmore> def self.from_boolean(value)
<gizmore> value := downcase
<gizmore> := would be sweet indeed
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<agent_wh1te> Programming on a netbook is wierd. My fingers are yelling at me D:
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<kiba> any good resource on how to use ruby threading?
<centrx> gizmore, With downcase you can just use value.downcase!
<gizmore> kiba ruby threading is suprisingly easy
<centrx> gizmore, That is not found with to_i because conceptually to_i is converting to a different database, and is often used with Fixnums, which are fixed
<gizmore> kiba: Thread.new do |t|; ... code ... here... end;
<gizmore> kiba then you can Thread.list.each do |t|; t.join; end; i guess
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<gizmore> centrx: what would i use for quicker integer calculations?
<centrx> gizmore, Maybe GSL (GNU Scientific Library), https://rubygems.org/gems/gsl
<agent_wh1te> I generally have a TI83 on hand
<kiba> hmmm....
* kiba did something with his thread
<centrx> gizmore, I doubt it is necessary for what you are doing though...
<kiba> it's still sequential
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<gizmore> kiba: there are multiple ruby vm / interpreter on the planet... the one you are using is probably still sequential
<kiba> so Thread.new do |t| blah; end.join() wouldn't work
<kiba> gizmore: ruby 2.0.0?
<gizmore> not sure
<gizmore> the point is you can have threading, but no need for locks if you do wise :P
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<gizmore> s/the point/good news
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<dseitz> gizmore: got sidetracked trying to post this: https://gist.github.com/s3itz/8877757
<gizmore> so you can easily write code that relies on network, HDD, etc
<kiba> gizmore: I am trying to speed up the download by doing parallel requests
<gizmore> kiba this will work great with the sequential "lame" implementation
* kiba is puzzled
<gizmore> iirc there are multiple threads, but only 1 can run at a time
<kiba> what's the point, then?
<centrx> gizmore, That's not really threading then :)
<gizmore> this means your network waitings will be optimized
<gizmore> because waiting threads will not block your other threads :)
<LLKCKfan> Is there any natural ways to relieve pain without using herbs or weed? No drugs
<kiba> huh?
<gizmore> LLKCKfan: masturbation
<kiba> gizmore: the time is 28 seconds for the download of 50 gems
<kiba> JSON
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<centrx> kiba, Only one thread gets CPU access at a time, but this is rarely ever an issue because programs are always waiting on disk access or network latency
<gizmore> kiba: what centrx said :)
<LLKCKfan> gizmore No
<kiba> but I only got one thread running, but not two! I have two CPU
<agent_wh1te> LLKCKfan: What is your life
<gizmore> kiba: maybe start the program twice then :)
<LLKCKfan> agent_wh1te what
* kiba still don't get it
<agent_wh1te> LLKCKfan: YES
<LLKCKfan> what
<gizmore> kiba: it´s a bit like js... you may query me for a lesson if you like
<agent_wh1te> You ask the same damned question, at random ass intervals.
<centrx> LLKCKfan, You have to change your ways
<agent_wh1te> LLKCKfan: the answer is, go to your doc and get the fuck off irc.
<LLKCKfan> I have been
<LLKCKfan> No help
<agent_wh1te> Or maybe someone can kick you in the head, so you forget about what a pain in the ass you are.
<kiba> gizmore: I don't know much about network and latency and performance
<gizmore> kiba... you can imagine your main thread codeflow like this: AAAAAAAA
<kiba> but I don't know much about parallel computing either
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<centrx> LLKCKfan, You need to accept your fallen state. Let the pain pass through you.
<kiba> I determined that the threads I written does not improve performance
<gizmore> kiba: now if you create a second thread with Thread.new ... the codeflow will be like AAABBBAAABBB
<centrx> LLKCKfan, Only when you accept the pain will you be free of it
<kiba> How come I am allowed to only run two threads?
<LLKCKfan> I have accept it
<agent_wh1te> Let the pain pass through your asshole, and allow you to gtfo
<kiba> err
<LLKCKfan> Never been free of it since Nov
<kiba> one thread?
<centrx> kiba, You can have many threads...
<gizmore> kiba: not parallel, but each thread gets some time.... AAABBBAAABBB .... you can have hundreds of threads if you like... now imagine AAA starts to wait for network... it becomes AABBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBB
<agent_wh1te> LLKCKfan: HOW DO I MAKE MONEY WITHOUT DOING ANYTHING AT ALL
<dseitz> Just stop working
<gizmore> kiba: when AAA is ready with network.... it becomes AAABBBAAABBB again
<kiba> gizmore: so you're telling me that it's utterly pointless to run threads if you can only do one network request at a time?
<gizmore> kiba: no... each connection needs time... pingpong handshakje
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<kiba> gizmore: I already established a HTTP connection and reusing that
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<kiba> my code is currently Thread.new() {|t| blah; }.join()
<gizmore> kiba: you can do 1 connection per thread
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<gizmore> then it will speed up
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<gizmore> kiba: if you do like 1000 requests to a single server i suggest you do 4-8 threads/connections
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<kiba> gizmore: so, establish two threads, each with their own http connection?
<gizmore> yep
<kiba> ok
<gizmore> 2-8 would be ok
<kiba> thanks
<gizmore> more would be not nice for the server and ISP etc
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<gizmore> you can play with it :)
<kiba> I am trying to speed up my download code so that I can do timely analysis on the gem database
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<kiba> the last time I download the data corpus, it was a multiweek affair
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<kiba> and that makes me sad
<kiba> it's already hard enough to parse the data into something I can use
<kiba> never mind not getting to the point of doing the analysis
<kiba> I am still summarizing the data
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<dseitz> Freaking RubyMotion went commercial :S
<dseitz> guess I'm a little behind on that; I was hoping to pluck GCD code out of it for use in a project
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<LLKCKfan> Hello
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<Zap-W> hey
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<Zap-W> can anyone explain to me why this is true: triples = "AAA"­.."ZZZ" ; tripl­es.cover? "ABCD­" dosen't the last triple end with ZZZ ABCD is 4 letters
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<Zap-W> shit
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<Zap-W> triples = "AAA".."ZZZ" ; triplpes.cover? "ABCD"
<Zap-W> triples*
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<Zap-W> where can I find ri documents online
<Zap-W> like String.succ
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<dseitz> Zap-W: the comparison is different
<dseitz> 'AAA' <= 'ABCD' && 'ABCD' <= 'ZZZ'
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<dseitz> ruby-doc is a good place to look; or you can integrate tools that read the doc like Dash
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<Zap-W> dseitz: how is 'ABCD' <= 'ZZZ'
<Zap-W> where is it defined
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<dseitz> The comparison stops at the first letter
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<dseitz> I don't know the use of of it, documentation actually defines your case as returning true
<dseitz> Maybe you want to use include?
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<Zap-W> can you paste the documentation I am not on a unix machine
<Zap-W> weird it stops at first letter meaning it compares only A to Z then B to Z then C to Z then D to ?
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<dseitz> String comparison is not lexicographical
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<dseitz> Zap-W: It would only continue comparing if they continue to match; at which, if s1 is of greater length, it would be greater; ie 'ABCD' > 'ABC' but "ABZ' > 'ABCDEFF'
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<Zap-W> dseitz: when you say length how does ruby calculate it? it converts it to byte size of each character postition ?
<dseitz> Well, for length in Ruby, String objects already know the length. If one string's length is less than the other, it compares the whole string until a character is greater. If it reaches the end of the shorter string, the longer one is greater.
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<dseitz> That's why 'ABCD' < 'ZZZ'
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<Zap-W> I see
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<Zap-W> I read somewhere that also ruby saves the letters in String objects inside Arrays but that dosen't have to do with anything just maybe that's how it does the letter by letter comparison ?
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<apeiros> Zap-W: that's wrong. ruby stores strings as byte arrays, not character arrays
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<dseitz> There are so many things going on in string.c; I wouldn't be surprised if this is one of the largest (text) files in ruby's source code
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<Zap-W> okie dokie
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<supersym> Say,...what is 'gollum' technically? A rails app? Engine? Rack enabled server with custom routes/controllers/views or does it conform to some kind of (Rails) standard??
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<lewellyn> rails has standards? :P
<supersym> haha ... you know what I mean ;)
<supersym> the term 'standards' in IT is pretty much non-existent if you take it literally
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<supersym> I guess I need to dive in the source...
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<supersym> I see now... last part, Rack backed custom wired
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<shevy> ruby has a standard!
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<supersym> yeah but what good are standards when your API's are still 'unstable'
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<Lewix> there are low and high standards...
<supersym> though I was away for a good year hacking on Clojure, things in the landscape of Ruby apps/plugins seem to have cleaned up some
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<supersym> last time I was suffering from so much outdated stuff
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<supersym> same problem Clojure faces though... too much results on Google return old stuff if you don't keep a close eye on dates with blogs and stuff
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<supersym> dunno... probably my own ignorance for a large part as well :P debugging became so much nicer with tools like 'pry' as a repl to work with
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<supersym> aha Rails::Application is also a Rails::Engine
<supersym> now I get it :P
<shevy> we are entering supersym's mind in a very weird way here
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<supersym> nm ;)
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<shevy> no
<shevy> you can't stop now man
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<shevy> he stopped :(
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<dorei> hello
<dorei> what's your preffered way of browsing ruby (and gems') related documentation ?
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<jhass> a mixture of pry-doc and rubydoc.info
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<gargaml> hu
<gargaml> hi
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<gargaml> I just installed ruby thanks to rbenv, but when I try to install the gem redCloth, I get an error telling me that mkmf is not present on the system
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<gargaml> I made some research and there is a solution with the dev package of my distribution
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<gargaml> but I'd like to know if there is a way to solve this issue by using my home dir and ruby specific package management
<gargaml> any ideas ?
<jhass> are you sure the ruby you installed via rbenv is also activated (and used by gem)?
<gargaml> by activated, you mean in my $PATH ?
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<jhass> it's needs a few more environment variables correctly set or in case of rbenv the right wrappers need to be first in your path, but that too, yes
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<dorei> how can i delete previous version from locally installed gems?
<jhass> iirc. you can regenerate the wrappers for rbenv with rbenv rehash, might be something to try too
<jhass> dorei: gem uninstall gemname -v oldversion
<dorei> thanx jhass
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<gargaml> jhass: you're right. I forgot about rbenv local command
<gargaml> thanks :-)
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<shevy> irb returns the last expression of a method called?
<shevy> that is quite annoying if you have a huge object with lots of @ivars
<shevy> I "fixed" this by returning empty string '' but that is an awful fix
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<Morrolan> Err, no, ruby returns the last expression of a method.
<Morrolan> IRB just shows the return value.
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<Morrolan> Reasonable REPLs like pry support special syntax to surpress the printing of the return value. In irb you'll have to do something silly like "foo = Foo.new; 0"
<shevy> hmm
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<shevy> stupid irb returns stupid value
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<tibounise> hi !
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<monsieurp> maroloccio: are you there?
<maroloccio> monsieurp: yes.... :(
<monsieurp> can you help me with Ruby? I am trying to code a week-end project using the GTK library
<maroloccio> do not
<monsieurp> but why?
<monsieurp> why is it ...?
<maroloccio> enjoy the weekend
<monsieurp> maroloccio: but why is it ..?
<apeiros> Morrolan: hm? what special syntax in pry?
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<maroloccio> monsieurp: no
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<shevy> monsieurp did you look at the ruby-gtk wiki?
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<monsieurp> shevy: yes, thanks for the links
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<monsieurp> shevy: maroloccio is the right person to talk to when it comes to weekend projects
<monsieurp> shevy: he's my friend
<shevy> k you two have your little chat then ;P
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<tibounise> can you use rake to launch the "bundle install" command ?
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<jhass> you can run arbitrary ruby code, that includes ``, system etc
<tibounise> ok
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<Aquilo> quick beginner question if you guys don't mind. I've got a variable called @grid that's housed in a class. It's been initialized in a variable called board. I'm trying to get that value so I can iterate over it on the most outer level of code. I've tried "@grid.each ....", "board.grid.each" "@grid.board.each" and probably a few other things.
<Aquilo> How would I go about doing that?
<Morrolan> apeiros: A semicolon after a statement will surpress printing of the returned value.
<apeiros> Morrolan: how's that pry specific?
<apeiros> that's normal ruby and works in irb just fine too
<Morrolan> Doing the same in irb will not make it surpress printing of the output.
<jhass> Aquilo: make a gist with your code please
<apeiros> Morrolan: um, yes of course
<Aquilo> jhass, alright one sec
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<Morrolan> apeiros: It'll ask for another line of input.
<Morrolan> As opposed to executing the code, and surpressing the return value.
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<Aquilo> jhass: http://pastebin.com/4YzBNVhZ The part where I'm trying to get the value is line 86 and the original variable is defined in the Board class on line 11.
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<tibounise> Aquilo: I get an error message from pastebin : "Pastebin.com is under heavy load right now :(" could you upload it elsewhere ?
<Aquilo> Yeah sure
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<tibounise> thanks
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<jhass> Aquilo: you need to define an successor for the grid variable: attr_reader :grid. That will create a method in your Board class that looks like this if you'd manually write it out: def grid; @grid; end
<jhass> *accessor
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<Aquilo> Hmm, ok, so that's all it is? Like a method that just includes the variable?
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<jhass> that just returns the variables value, yes
<Aquilo> awesome, thank you so much!
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<jhass> a few style notes: most ruby people prefer two spaces for indent and to name methods in snake_case (lowercase, separated by underscores)
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<jhass> also most of us discourage things like get_foo set_foo or is_foo and write use foo, foo= and foo? instead
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<shevy> I <3 set_foo
<Aquilo> oh really? I had no idea it was opinionated. I didn't think there was something like PEP-8 for ruby.
<shevy> however had get_foo makes no sense
<Aquilo> What do you mean get_foo? Like method or function names?
<jhass> yes
<shevy> reader
<shevy> I often use methods with the trailing ? like def game_over?; @game_over
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<shevy> the game is over!!!
<shevy> YOU LOST!
<shevy> GIMME YOUR MONEY!
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<Aquilo> Is there a reason you tend to discourage names like that, or is it just convention?
<jhass> Aquilo: if else with just return true / return false seems silly too, just return the value of the boolean expression directly (re. lines 52-56)
<jhass> just convention
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<shevy> hmm
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<shevy> it's a bit more than convention
<shevy> there are the default attr*
<jhass> common sense?
<shevy> no I mean there is direct support for what you wrote jhass
<shevy> attr_reader :foo
<jhass> Aquilo: you can also leave the return keyword off if it's in the last line of a method and many do that
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<shevy> attr_writer :foo
<shevy> attr_accessor :foo
<jhass> that is the last expression of a method is returned
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<jhass> and expressions like if else have a value too (the last line of the respective branch again)
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<Aquilo> Oh alright. So "return ! colNums......" ?
<Aquilo> I don't wanna drop the return keyword because it's easy to spot
<jhass> that's just because you're used to it :P but yes
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<Aquilo> Great, thanks for all the help here! I'm just trying to get used to this stuff. I'm trying to get to a point programming is more than just a giant calculator :P
<jhass> last thing, but that's more a 80/20 thing from my experience: we prefer && and || over and and or in boolean expressions
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<Aquilo> Oh cool. I even knew that, I just sort of typed it out without thinking.
<jhass> that's because they have different operator precedence and the && / || variants have the one you're more used to from other languages
<Aquilo> operator precedence like order of ops?
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<jhass> like in 20+30*40, that * binds higher than +
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<Aquilo> Cool cool
<pipecloud> Aquilo: Generally, what you should use return for is when you're doing something special that needs to be observed, not just for the return value of methods. The last thing evaluated is returned already, so use return for flow control instead.
<jhass> Aquilo: okay another thing I'd write different:  print @grid[i..i+8].to_s+"\n" ->  print "#{@grid[i..i+8]}\n" ->  puts @grid[i..i+8]
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<pipecloud> oh dear.
<jhass> Aquilo:   def initialize() leave off the empty parens, nobody does that in ruby, some (like me) even leave them off your method takes parameters :P
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<Aquilo> pipecloud: gotcha. removing returns then!; jhass: oh ok. I was thinking they were required like in python (though now I'm being paranoid that they are even required there.)
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<pipecloud> Aquilo: There's two main camps of parens. Seattle and everyone else. I'm a mix of the two.
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<Aquilo> even though I totally didn't include them in other methods...huh.
<pipecloud> Seattle tends to omit wherever possible.
<Aquilo> I assume the reasoning for keeping them in is uniformity and easy of reading?
<jhass> hm, and don't compare to true in ifs IMO
<Aquilo> Oh yeah, I can just take true out
<pipecloud> Aquilo: It's usually like, "Keep parens in method definitions: def lol(arg1)"
<shevy> take all the trues away from this cruel world!
<pipecloud> Aquilo: What's neat about ruby is that anything that isn't nil is a truthy object.
<shevy> Seattle is the typical rails ghetto, try to avoid them if you can
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<jhass> Aquilo: your get_number method is just (1..9).to_a.shuffle.find {|n| valid_number?(..., n) }, I think
<pipecloud> shevy: No.
<shevy> or ruby ghetto, respectively
<shevy> pipecloud are you from Seattle?
<pipecloud> They're really awesome and do great things, I just don't follow their style dogmatically.
<pipecloud> shevy: Nowai. I'm pdxruby
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<Aquilo> pipecloud: you're kidding. I'm in pdx too.
<pipecloud> Aquilo: Neat.
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<Aquilo> jhass: Those one liners confuse the hell out of me. It's just an inexperience thing, but I don't tend to think in them.
<pipecloud> Aquilo: #pdxruby is a thing along with #pdxtech, which I see you in.
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<tongcx> hi guys, for sth like 'set(:probability) { |value| condition { rand <= value } }'
<jhass> Aquilo: just memorize Enumerable one time ;)
<tongcx> is 'set' a class, a function?
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<tongcx> is the return a class or a function?
<tongcx> this is from sinatra
<jhass> tongcx: set is a method
<pipecloud> tongcx: It's always a method.
<jhass> there are no functions and classes aren't callable (like that)
<tongcx> the method takes ':probability' as argument, and return what?
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<jhass> let's look up in the docs!
<pipecloud> tongcx: There's documentation.
<tongcx> pipecloud: can you tell me how to find the docs? I'm newbie
<pipecloud> Google usually.
<jhass> so it's not further specified, just Object
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<jhass> that usually means that you shouldn't care at all
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<tongcx> pipecloud: the docs doesn't tell me things under the hood
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<pipecloud> tongcx: The source does if you really must know.
<tongcx> so it return a callable class which takes a block as argument?
<jhass> tongcx: check the link I gave, there's a show source code
<jhass> tongcx: no
<jhass> it returns `self`
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<pipecloud> I've not really seen anyone actually use the return value of set in a sinatra application.
<jhass> but given that it's not specified (and thus Object), and not mentioned in the description, as said, you shouldn't care about the return value
<pipecloud> They just call set and pass their args and block in.
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<tongcx> so both probability and block is arg? why there is no ',' between args?
<jhass> what?
<tongcx> usually i will write 'func 1,3'
<tongcx> there is ',' between args
<apeiros> block args are not separated by comma
<tongcx> apeiros: right on, thanks
<tongcx> another question, in ruby is it possible to return a function that can be called without '.call'?
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<pipecloud> tongcx: You'd do yourself a favor to drop function from your vocabulary when talking about ruby. In ruby, we have methods.
<pipecloud> They are functions bound to 'self' implicitly where self is an object.
<tongcx> pipecloud: sure, will use methods
<tongcx> pipecloud: so, is it possible to return a method which can be called without using '.call'?
<pipecloud> tongcx: Well, most people generally don't return methods, but methods are objects and you can call them a number of ways.
<pipecloud> Why don't you describe what you do want instead of what you don't want?
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<tongcx> pipecloud: so in python, i can return a function that can be treated as a normal function, i'm wondering is it true in ruby also
<tongcx> pipecloud: i mean, for methods in ruby
<pipecloud> tongcx: Sure, you can return method objects.
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<tongcx> pipecloud: how do I do so?
<pipecloud> tongcx: Look up #method and Method. A method and a class, respectively.
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<tongcx> pipecloud: sorry, could you tell me how to 'look up #method and Method'? i'm really new to ruby
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<tongcx> pipecloud: do you refer to google or ruby docs?
<tongcx> pipecloud: or chatroom help?
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<pipecloud> tongcx: If I want actual docs I look at the actual docs. If I want general information I look through what google tells me.
<tongcx> pipecloud: how do I look for docs in ruby?
<tongcx> pipecloud: in python, there is help(func)
<pipecloud> tongcx: google: 'ruby documentation'
<tongcx> pipecloud: in ruby, that seems not working in irb
<pipecloud> There's also ri and rdoc. gem server, etc.
<tongcx> pipecloud: thanks
<pipecloud> tongcx: I also like local documentation! I use ri and dash.app mostly.
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<pipecloud> But you can use `gem server` to host a local server that has documentation for the gems you generated rdocs for.
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<tongcx> pipecloud: i'd like to use ri, but 'ri #method' seems not work
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<pipecloud> tongcx: Might want to learn the ri syntax then, I'd think.
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<tongcx> pipecloud: sure, if I have a method named 'fun', how do i use it as return value?
<tongcx> pipecloud: or how do i get the object instead invoke it?
<pipecloud> tongcx: #method
<tongcx> pipecloud: i c, thanks
<pipecloud> tongcx: `man ri` would show you the syntax for looking it up. `ri Object#method`
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<AntelopeSalad> is anyone familiar with Thor here?
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<AntelopeSalad> how would i go about getting what stdout reported after i ran the thor 'run' command? it only seems to return true/false
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<AntelopeSalad> ah, capture: true did the trick
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<rezonanc> Hi, maybe someone could give me a hint. I'm trying to gather/dump Vagrantfile's configuration to YAML. I'm partially there, I've put a line like "puts YAML::dump(config)" before the last "end" in Vagrantfile, but I only get the list of machines names, not the configuration. Is it somehow possible to get all the information?
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<shevy> rezonanc that depends what config is. try: require 'pp'; pp config, and paste the output somewhere
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<rezonanc> ok, will do!
<shevy> also, no need for YAML::dump. YAML.dump is nicer to read and one less character!
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<tongcx> hi guys, a new question, both Proc and Method are classes and they have method '.call'
<tongcx> what's different about them?
<pipecloud> shevy: Psh, class methods are fun to refer to by ::
<pipecloud> tongcx: They aren't the same thing, that's what's different.
<shevy> tongcx you create a Method via method()
<shevy> there is no other way
<shevy> >> Method.new
<eval-in> shevy => undefined method `new' for Method:Class (NoMethodError) ... (https://eval.in/99540)
<shevy> >> Proc.new
<eval-in> shevy => tried to create Proc object without a block (ArgumentError) ... (https://eval.in/99541)
<shevy> obviously you can create procs
<rezonanc> shevy, the same thing, only the names are given: https://gist.github.com/rezonanc-nfq/f80793891371e546f260
<shevy> rezonanc k then the error must happened before
<shevy> this is "config" btw?
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<tongcx> pipecloud: yes, they are two different classes, but why ruby have these two instead of combine them?
<rezonanc> yes :)
<pipecloud> shevy: There's other ways to create Method objects besides #method
<shevy> pipecloud ok list them
<pipecloud> tongcx: Because they aren't the same thing.
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<pipecloud> shevy: I don't need to. Read the Method documentation.
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<shevy> a link I gave
<shevy> so your contribution is basically zero here
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<tongcx> pipecloud: why they're different? I think there is some core concept i don't know
<pipecloud> tongcx: Read the documentation for both.
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<shevy> how helpful
<shevy> rezonanc that object looks rather complex
<pipecloud> shevy: I'm not here to interpret documentation so people don't have to read it.
<shevy> yeah I am wondering why you actually are here
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<pipecloud> To help people with problems that don't stem from avoidance of documentation, naturally.
<shevy> oh but everything can be found in documentation
<pipecloud> Can it?
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<shevy> of course not
<pipecloud> Why are you here?
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<shevy> unlike you to help people when I can, regardless of [insert any arbitrary limitation here]
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<pipecloud> Seems like you have some interesting opinions of what I do here.
<pipecloud2> folks, read documentation!
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<pipecloud> How is your ruby OS going?
<pipecloud2> ruby's documentation is perfect
<pipecloud> bean: Cute!
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<bean> o.o
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<pipecloud> bean: Your nick and realname are cute.
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<pipecloud> It's okay, I'm not original either.
<pipecloud2> I am the original
<pipecloud> Your attempts at humor are appreciated but not well delivered.
<lagweezle> Needs a pretty bow.
<pipecloud2> that's because your level of understanding is just limited pipecloud
<pipecloud> I'm sure.
<pipecloud2> now change your nick please
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<shevy> Please, tell me more!
<pipecloud> WTF
<pipecloud> -NickServ- You have 30 seconds to identify to your nickname before it is changed.
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<pipecloud> Lul. :D
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<pipecloud> <3
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<pipecloud> shevy: Senka, you dead muhn?
<shevy> pipecloud you registered your nick
<rezonanc> pp gives me this output "@config_procs", can I somehow access this "item" ?
<pipecloud> It was already registered. Has been for a bit.
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<pipecloud> I also have my nicks protected.
<shevy> pipecloud can you unregister it please?
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<pipecloud> shevy: I don't think I can, no.
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<shevy> hmm lemme google
<pipecloud> I typically only sell my nicks, I don't give them away.
<shevy> rezonanc what is the line of ruby code that gives you that
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<shevy> pipecloud, I have good news
<shevy> pipecloud, try this: /nickserv drop pipecloud
<pipecloud> shevy: You might try /quit
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<shevy> no, that won't bring us closer towards the goal of seeing your nick unregistered
<pipecloud> or /join 0
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<pipecloud> shevy: I don't personally see the value in that. I have many other nicks.
<pipecloud> /nickserv drop pipecloud
<shevy> pipecloud but I cant become pipcloud :(
<pipecloud> It doesn't work anyways. :(
<shevy> wat
<pipecloud> shevy: That's a feature! No one likes pipecloud anyways.
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<pipecloud> /nickserv drop the_bass
<shevy> probably it is /msg NickServ drop pipecloud
<pipecloud> /msg NickServ drop pipecloud
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<shevy> pipecloud what is your IRC client?
<centrx> Don't do it, it's a trap!
<pipecloud> shevy: I use a combination of bitshifting and writing raw tcp packets on the fly.
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<pipecloud> Everything worth saying is worth crafting TCP packets for. It's the love letter writing of networking.
<shevy> rezonanc try this in irb -> require 'pp';array = %w( abc def ) << 'a'*55 << 'bce'*33; pp array
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<shevy> pipecloud irssi
<pipecloud> shevy: What's that?
<pipecloud> It looks old and out of date.
<shevy> it almost is at version 1.0
<pipecloud> Does it even embed images?
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<shevy> sure
<shevy> ascii images through http://jp2a.sourceforge.net/
<pipecloud> Where's the .exe installer?
<shevy> become a real man and use the source, luke
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<pipecloud> shevy: I'd rather be a real girl. They just want to have fun.
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<shevy> yeah and nothing is done!
<pipecloud> That sounds like a problem of opinion.
<shevy> pipecloud RubyOS is too much work :(
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<pipecloud> shevy: But ruby documentation is perfect. I bet it would be easy if you only read the documentation.
<shevy> ruby document is so awful man, I don't know why you keep on sending people to read it :(
<centrx> shevy, Are you joking?
<pipecloud> You're right, people should read the comments in the PHP documentation.
<shevy> nope
<pipecloud> centrx: He's pretty funny.
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<Morrolan> Ruby's stdlib's documentation is rather nice. :o
<centrx> Ruby documentation is excellent
<centrx> The stdlib documentation is rather bad
<centrx> The Python documentation is awful
<pipecloud> shevy: That's way too much prose. TL;DR: Python sucks and has weak lambdas.
<shevy> pipecloud it's rather nice
<pipecloud> Ain't nobody got time to read documentation.
<shevy> it tries to explain the language to a newcomer
<pipecloud> Does it explain the terrible lambdas?
<shevy> now a newcomer to ruby will probably see http://ruby-doc.org/
<pipecloud> I bet they'd see ruby-lang.org
<shevy> pipecloud will newcomers understand lambdas? truly?
<Morrolan> A newcomer should start with tutorials, not with the documentation.
<pipecloud> shevy: sure, why wouldn't they?
<shevy> pipecloud why would they even need lambdas
<pipecloud> Not everyone who picks up ruby knows absolutely nothing.
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<pipecloud> shevy: Why wouldn't they?
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<shevy> pipecloud for every feature in a language there is a cost-reward ratio to use
<shevy> like what benefit would you have by knowing lambdas
<pipecloud> shevy: Is there now? Please, regale us about this particular totally related point.
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<pipecloud> shevy: I don't see a benefit to knowing python, please explain the cost:reward ratio for that.
<shevy> you don't need to know python
<pipecloud> Maybe it is a language for children?
<pipecloud> Or Austrians!
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<shevy> you don't need to know the language to come to understand that your continued pointing towards suboptimal documentation doesn't help people
<pipecloud> shevy: It's not like you're doing anything to improve it.
<shevy> the documentation?
<centrx> shevy, The only thing you have mentioned as "bad" about the Ruby doc is that it is not a tutorial
<pipecloud> The documentation was good enough for me.
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<centrx> shevy, That seems to be an entirely different point. The Ruby doc is an excellent reference
<pipecloud> I'm not any smarter than other people here.
<shevy> centrx everything is a joke compared to the python documentation - the style, the layout, the amount of quality and content, and the amount of examples
<pipecloud> I'd hope I'm the least intelligent.
<pipecloud> shevy: Yeah, but who cares if a silly language has good documentation? It's still silly.
<centrx> shevy, Python doc is truly awful
<shevy> centrx ok show me the ruby doc that is better please
<centrx> shevy, There is no navigation, there is no organization, and there is no source code
<centrx> String, Array, Hash
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<shevy> the toggle to source code is indeed cool
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<pipecloud> shevy: This may stem from your being an ESLer.
<pipecloud> As one whose native language is English, I can tell you that the jokes in ruby's source are hilarious.
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<pipecloud> Especially the ones not in English. :(
<shevy> But you are not funny at all. :(
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<havenwood> "A String object holds and manipulates an arbitrary sequence of bytes, typically representing characters." versus "The string module contains a number of useful constants and classes, as well as some deprecated legacy functions that are also available as methods on strings."
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<shevy> There is the python atexit documentation: http://docs.python.org/2/library/atexit.html
<pipecloud> shevy: I don't pretend to be.
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<havenwood> So Ruby's docs say what a String is, while Python's says...
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<pipecloud> havenwood: Ruby's documentation is inferior, you can't explain that. Obvs.
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<centrx> The Python string doc seems to imply there is only one non-deprecated function for strings: format
<shevy> Here is pipecloud's beloved ruby documentation for atexit: http://ruby-doc.org/core-2.1.0/Kernel.html#method-i-at_exit
<pipecloud> shevy: Does that not make sense to you?
<centrx> shevy, It says exactly what it does and gives an example...
<pipecloud> Or do you really need someone to explain what "in reverse order" is?
<shevy> centrx so you think the ruby documentation is better than python's documentation for a newcomer? it's not like ... hmm minimal?
<pipecloud> shevy: I think that ruby's documentation is, like ruby, for adult developers. I suppose it assumes you have a basic grasp of English, which may be too high a bar for your. Who knows?
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<shevy> pipecloud your assumptions are all so hilarious man
<centrx> shevy, As a newcomer to Python, I found the documentation useless
<pipecloud> shevy: Are they?
<shevy> pipecloud yeah unfortunately
<havenwood> shevy: For that particular example Ruby's implementation is 80% less code, so being simpler takes less explanation it seems.
<pipecloud> I'm glad you think I'm funny. A minute ago you said I wasn't.
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<shevy> centrx when I started with ruby, the documentation was absolutely awful or downright not existing
<centrx> When was that, 1999?
<shevy> pipecloud sure. because you are not funny at all
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<shevy> centrx 2004
<havenwood> shevy: It is getting better though! :D
<shevy> havenwood yeah
<shevy> what would ruby do without drbrain
<havenwood> shevy: And nice improvements coming down the pipe. zzak has spent a lot of time on docs too!
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<pipecloud> shevy: I'm not sure what you mean.
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<shevy> pipecloud I can't hire a translator just for you
<pipecloud> Personally, where documentation has let me down, implementation has always been enough for me.
<pipecloud> shevy: I'm sure you couldn't afford it.
<havenwood> shevy: Lots of effort going on to fill in the gaps and also make it nicer to access the docs: http://ruby-doc.org/
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<shevy> pipecloud I don't want to burn money on useless things anyway
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<pipecloud> shevy: I should think so! Given that my native language is the one you're trying to speak, I'd say it's probably a waste.
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<pipecloud> shevy: So why all the butthurt lately? Are you late for your period this month?
<shevy> pipecloud this is "speaking" to you? I used to think it is "typing" huh
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<shevy> pipecloud now now there
<havenwood> shevy: 25% of Ruby is left to document, so for sure there's more help needed for documentation!
<havenwood> shevy: http://documenting-ruby.org/
<pipecloud> Just curious.
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<shevy> pipecloud that's a new level from you
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<pipecloud> shevy: I'm sure you're the authority on that!
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<shevy> pipecloud: I don't live near Seattle man :>
<havenwood> Nice that ruby-core is streamlining documentation requests.
<pipecloud> shevy: I don't really know what you're trying to infer there, pal.
<pipecloud> Again, why are you so butthurt at me?
<shevy> pipecloud so you don't live nearby?
<havenwood> would be a good way to learn some of the obscure areas
<pipecloud> Got the buttHz?
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<pipecloud> Perhaps you might save on your energy bill by selling your extra butthz back to your energy company.
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<shevy> Seattle Potty Mouth Expedition, Teamleader pipecloud.
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<lagweezle> This has been an odd morning.
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<lagweezle> In here, that is.
<shevy> Evening!
<lagweezle> Or that.
<pipecloud> lagweezle: I feel the same.
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<shevy> The morning was rather sleepy.
<pipecloud> shevy isn't usually so interesting to talk with.
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<shevy> pipecloud man I don't want you to want to talk with me
<pipecloud> shevy: That's nice, hun.
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<shevy> pipecloud but I want you to drop your nick!
<pipecloud> Go cool down if you're so upset you can't handle discourse.
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<pipecloud> shevy: I want you to contribute to the documentation you claim is so terrible! :D
<shevy> pipecloud I am perfectly calm and pleased.
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<shevy> pipecloud I might!
<pipecloud> shevy: That's great!
<lagweezle> drugs drugs drugs phlegm drugs phlegm drugs
<shevy> pipecloud but we should do so together, else only one of us would work
<pipecloud> shevy: Since we're pals, I'll sell you this nick for $40. I usually try to make $50, but you amuse me.
<shevy> pipecloud let's aim for one year, 2014?
<shevy> pipecloud but I don't wanna buy your nick :(
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<pipecloud> shevy: I'm too busy contributing to my own lonely open source projects! Besides, I don't know what parts of the ruby documentation I'd improve, as everything I use and read makes sense to me. Perhaps I could give things a look over for you, being a native speaker of the language. Just ping me if you should want an assist.
<lagweezle> Take care folks. Off to the dentist. Whee.
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<pipecloud> lagweezle: Don't let them put you to sleep. You can't trust them.
<pipecloud> On the other hand, it's often the best sleep I get all year.
<lagweezle> I know! I might wake up with a penis on my forehead or something.
<shevy> pipecloud hmm I am not sure what documentation would be best to see being improved
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<pipecloud> Or better yet, you won't wake up at all! D:
<pipecloud> shevy: Me neither! It's pretty good as it is.
<shevy> pipecloud nono, it means that one would need to get a thorough, systematic check on all its components in order to assess where it really is lacking the most and where it is lacking only a little
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<pipecloud> shevy: That sounds like a great idea! CC me on your pull request, okay?
<shevy> havenwood, how is the 75% data calculcated? Does rdoc collect that on a run?
<shevy> pipecloud we'll have to make that a proper challenge :)
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<havenwood> shevy: I don't know if that is still accurate, I hope it has been filled in some in the months since it was updated but I really don't know.
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<pipecloud> shevy: I don't mind looking at pull requests, but sure. I'll challenge you to write a pull request that I find no objective problems with.
<shevy> ok
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<havenwood> I should do one too. Would be nice to have 100%.
<pipecloud> havenwood: http://i.imgur.com/dJ7GtLl.jpg
<pipecloud> havenwood: Stop sucking up to shevy. He's my chum! :D
<havenwood> like chumming the waters?
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<pipecloud> havenwood: churning?
* pipecloud churns the chum
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<itadder> do you people enjoy coding on two screen or just one
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<pipecloud> three, why?
<havenwood> itadder: i like the idea of two but i use one
<itadder> should I just use my 19 inch screen or my 13 inch macbook pro
<itadder> damn I need to clean my desk
<centrx> 13 inch seems small
<itadder> what is a good how to guide to start a project from scratch
<perldork1> 1 screen with tmux via iTerm to have split panes
<pipecloud> itadder: bundle gem <gemname>
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<centrx> rails new
<pipecloud> I just have 3 27" monitors
<pipecloud> centrx: lol
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<itadder> I have iterm, limechat, and textmate
<itadder> and chrome
<itadder> should I keep limeone on the 13 inch
<itadder> and split textmate and iterm on the 19 inch
<perldork1> i use adium iterm and vim with syntastic, youcomplete me, and a few other plugins
<perldork1> iterm2 ( that's the one with built in tmux )
<perldork1> i tend to prefer firefox for firebug
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<itadder> what is tmux
<itadder> I am also using iterm
<centrx> TERMINAL MULTIPLEXER
<shevy> itadder I lately saw the main IT guy in the basement of my company (somewhere in a cellar), he was working with three monitors and needed all of them
<pipecloud> I prefer real tmux over the weird kind.
<pipecloud> iTerm does odd things.
<perldork1> lets you split your terminal into multiple terminals within a terminal .. like an IDE made of terminals. http://tmux.sourceforge.net/
<tamouse__> moss or roy?
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<itadder> why would I need that if I am working on ruby
<itadder> LOL
<itadder> moss here
<pipecloud> itadder: It's just a tool.
<tamouse__> ^5
<perldork1> i always have pain with the real tmux and system clipboard so i moved to using iterm2's built in version - no copy n paste issues with system clipboard
<itadder> would I need to have more then one shell at a time
<pipecloud> perldork1: Mine works fine.
<pipecloud> Both in GNU/Linux and OS X
<tamouse__> my biggest issue with both tmux and screen is scrolling
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<tamouse__> i'm just so used to cranking the scroll wheel
<perldork1> with OSX i have had enough issues with system clipboard integration i gave up and besides i like that with iterm2 i can save my tmux layouts so when i reboot i get the terminal with tmux wins back as sessions
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<pipecloud> tamouse__: I have my scroll wheel and touchpad set to properly scroll tmux.
<perldork1> scroll wheel works with tmux
<pipecloud> perldork1: tmux supports persisted sessions.
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<tamouse__> pipecloud: i tried to set it up, but it doesn't seem to work. this is via ssh or mosh
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<perldork1> https://github.com/perldork/dotfiles/blob/master/.tmux.conf - my settings, mostly exactly the ones in the tmux book that give vi-like commands for everything
<pipecloud> perldork1: Here's a few commits behind what I have on most my machines: https://github.com/Spaceghost/tmux-config/
<itadder> I am trying to setup my macbook for distraction free coding
<itadder> session
<pipecloud> itadder: Do ritalin.
<pipecloud> Problem solved.
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<itadder> I just took adderal
<pipecloud> Close IRC.
<itadder> you see my nickname
<perldork1> pipecloud: thanks
<itadder> IT Adder
<itadder> yea
<itadder> okay bye
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<centrx> Amphetamines, what a waste
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<pipecloud> shevy: If you ever need to learn how to be distraction free, I may have discovered the holy grail of distraction free workflows. :D
<shevy> you distract me man
<pipecloud> shevy: I love you too, pal.
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<seoNinjaWarrior> pipecloud: what is this holy grail you speak of?
<pipecloud> seoNinjaWarrior: Close IRC. 1000% productivity spike.
<seoNinjaWarrior> I figured as much
<pipecloud> It's a sekrit tho.
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<itadder> just one last question
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<itadder> is it good idea to install rails on my mac
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<waxjar> terrible idea, unless you want to use it
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<itadder> this is were I am confused I will be doing all coding on my mac, but at somepoint it will go to heroku
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<itadder> so with heroku I just ssh and do that, but how do I use textmate + heroku
<seoNinjaWarrior> itadder: code it and test it on your mac, once it's ready for production upload it to heroku
<itadder> oh
<seoNinjaWarrior> since you'll do the development on your mac, you won't be using text mate on heroku
<waxjar> heroku is a host, it has nothing to do with textmate. you'll send your code to heroku trough git eventually
<itadder> but do I needd to install rails on my mac
<seoNinjaWarrior> which is just a hosting service anyway
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<seoNinjaWarrior> yeah of course, lol
<jhass> itadder: are you working with an existing application?
<itadder> no
<itadder> no
<itadder> I am bulding one from scratch
<jhass> then you need to decide if you want to use rails or not
<seoNinjaWarrior> that's true, if you've already got a working app, and you don't need to develop just upload it. if you need to develop you'll want to run rails on your laptop for development
<itadder> I am start a new project
<jhass> not we
<itadder> ahh
<itadder> my project is to create a webfrontend for Omnifocus
<itadder> so I can manage my omnifocus from my work PC or any none apple device
<itadder> also last question is thier a iterm channel
<itadder> the font is all crazy make hard for me to see
<itadder> I want to set default
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<pipecloud> itadder: I generally install my development tools on my development machine, yeah.
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<itadder> so your laptop is not the development machine
<pipecloud> It totally is.
<itadder> I am confused
<itadder> I have two machines my macmini and my laptop
<pipecloud> I develop on my laptop and desktop.
<itadder> pipecloud: how do I revert back to default iterm
<pipecloud> I prefer to develop locally on the system I'm using.
<pipecloud> itadder: default in what way?
<itadder> I am going crazy trying to manage to many windows
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<itadder> factory default
<itadder> this is how it looks now it hard to read
<pipecloud> Probably by deleting the preferences it stores.
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<itadder> this is my desktop http://postimg.org/image/3qolbmppj/
<itadder> I have issues reading dyslexic
<pipecloud> Your font on your terminal is pretty bad.
<itadder> ahh thanks
<itadder> yea
<itadder> I not sure what I did
<pipecloud> Probably edited a profile.
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<itadder> bah rm ~/Library/Preferences/net.sourceforge.iTerm.plist did not work
<itadder> let me find this file
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<itadder> I am on mavericks
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<itadder> bah
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<nichtdiebohne> just a stupid question: you already tried to change the font in preferences?
<itadder> yea but they all distort the screen size'
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<itadder> bbl
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<pipecloud> itadder: I use monospaced fonts and keep the font size down.
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<morrrrrgan> secrets d'état & co ( révélations, etc ), faites tourner .. http://morganroulleau.wordpress.com ( on s'en branle que vous compreniez pas, au pire ça viendra plus tard ( .. )) ( La NSA approuve ce message. ) ( méway, sans doute, ils m'aiment. )
<morrrrrgan> GL HF ...
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<revMARKbrown> HI RUBY FAMILY
<revMARKbrown> noob to Ruby.. facinated with Ruby though...
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<revMARKbrown> How can i remap the key "m" to send "F1" ???? with ruby 1.9.3
<revMARKbrown> anyone simple example
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<revMARKbrown> I am a teacher and work with disabled students... trying to use Ruby to help them remap their keyboards to function better
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<jhass> maybe just shell out to xdotool
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<shevy> revMARKbrown this depends on your window manager probably. in fluxbox it is easy, you can use things like "Mod4 p :ExecCommand xmms -t" for specific actions. not sure what the syntax for remapping is offhand but #fluxbox guys should know
<revMARKbrown> xdotool what is it.. will research it
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<revMARKbrown> thanks guys.. my students and I will research it.. most of my studnets are disabled.. some can use only one hand.. learning Ruby to help them remap keyboard to their needs...
<shevy> well ruby is a scripting language, you may need the operating system or window manager to remap keyboard events
<dachi> this one is old but you can read it
<shevy> another way may be via ruby-gnome bindings
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<RubyTitmouse> revMARKbrown: https://help.gnome.org/users/orca/stable/ you should be able to get to all of that through the Ruby gnome bindings
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<shevy> who of you is using postgre
<shevy> (+ ruby)
<jhass> <-
<centrx> %
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<RubyTitmouse> !!
<waxjar> 8==D
<shevy> what is the % there
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<centrx> shevy, In Postgresql, as in many other RDBMS database server software systems, the % sign is used for pattern matching with LIKE, http://www.postgresql.org/docs/9.3/static/functions-matching.html
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<shevy> yikes
<shevy> you can do pattern matching in postgre
<shevy> I did not know that
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<centrx> shevy, Postgresql also supports SELECT and JOIN
<RubyTitmouse> $ psql -c "SELECT lanname FROM pg_language WHERE lanname like '%ruby%'"
<shevy> well that one I found in the documentation
<shevy> RubyTitmouse don't tell me that this is valid
<RubyTitmouse> shevy: (1 row)
<xybre> shevy: its legit
<RubyTitmouse> You don't use PL/Ruby?!?!
<centrx> That is how you do LIKE in SQL
<RubyTitmouse> You can even put activerecord inside a pg trigger/rule if you want
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<shevy> hey
<shevy> I have not even progressed to activerecord at all
<centrx> #rubyonrails !
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<shevy> hah
<shevy> you send me straight to hell right?
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<syme21> n00b here. What's the best practice for installing Ruby on Ubuntu 13.10 (and Rails later). I've seen source, rvm and rbenv mentioned.
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<perldork> ( rvm and rbenv ) > deb > source :)
<pipecloud> syme21: The smallest, cleanest, and simplest one is ruby-install for installing rubies, and chruby for selecting them.
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<pipecloud> perldork: debs aren't bad, but ubanto and debian repository rubies are.
<petems> ruby-install solo > rvm and rbenv > deb > source ;)
<syme21> cheers!
<perldork> recommend you don't use rvm rbenv or chruby in production
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<lewellyn> and in some cases, they're the best approach in production.
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<perldork> pipecloud: I haven't used a Linux or Unix distro yet that keeps up with the pace of popular interpretered languages - they are always out of date, totally agree
<pipecloud> perldork: It's the repository that sucks, not the packaging format, is my point.
<perldork> lewellyn: when have you found them to be the best approach? Curious.
<perldork> ok sure that's a reasonable clarification
<lewellyn> perldork: when you have services running as separate users and they each need their own different ruby versions.
<centrx> syme21, Use the Ubuntu package for Ruby. Use the gems for any Ruby libraries
<shevy> syme21, wget ftp://ftp.ruby-lang.org/pub/ruby/2.1/ruby-2.1.0.tar.bz2
<pipecloud> jhass: I'm happy to not use archlinux though. :D
<pipecloud> centrx: ewno
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<perldork> lewellyn: so, for example, a shared hosting env? I could see that.
<pipecloud> ruby-install is the best non-packaging way to install rubies.
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<lewellyn> perldork: no, just a multitenant server. not shared hosting.
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<lewellyn> perldork: unless, of course, you have a better solution for maintaining per-user ruby installs. :P
<pipecloud> lewellyn: I prefer to package my own rubies and prefix version number and use update-alternatives and the such.
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<perldork> yeah, we've been using puma - and the app just has the path to a system ruby in it's startup scripts
<pipecloud> But I also use ruby-install and just have PATH changes as well.
<pipecloud> perldork: Well, it doesn't have to be a system ruby, just an absolute path to a ruby.
<perldork> it's made RPM based installs much less painful than using an env changing tool
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<lewellyn> e.g. "$app requires ruby X.Y.X-pXXX because pYYY exposes a bug which can lead to a DoS and the vendor has an ETA of about 90 days to fix it due to development, testing, and QA schedules."
<pipecloud> perldork: Yeah, I suggest always using absolute paths instead of PATH.
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<lewellyn> pipecloud: update-alternatives doesn't work per-user.
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<perldork> lewellyn: we've still found it easier to have system level rubies in different paths as root rather than a ruby per user on our multi-tenant setups - but for a shared env where each user is a completely separate account i could see rvm / rbenv for prod being useful
<pipecloud> lewellyn: I know. That's why I have the user have their PATH set for the ruby they want, but I prefer they use absolute paths.
<perldork> lewellyn: we of course still use bundler for each app
<lewellyn> perldork: i find that i'm running approximately the same number of distinct ruby versions either way. :P
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<pipecloud> perldork: Yeah, I install rubies to a readable location for my users so they can share rubies.
<lewellyn> upgrade/test cycles just never line up right.
<pipecloud> They all have their own GEM_HOME directories.
<perldork> lewellyn: it seems more straight-forward if you have 3 system level paths to me CM-wise
<lewellyn> 3? heh. :P
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<lewellyn> i'm looking at a box with 9 different ruby versions for 11 accounts right now.
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* lewellyn finds ruby apps a nightmare with vendor support, tbh.
<perldork> lewellyn: arbitrary number :) .. instead of each user account having a different ruby. ok, I am curious, what kind of env do you have that has that many different versions that isn't shared hosting?
<pipecloud> I like using my system package manager, so I just prefix when I'm doing things right.
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<lewellyn> ruby isn't an enterprise-grade thing, often. enterprise doesn't adapt well to the ruby mindset.
<pipecloud> perldork: Deploying multiple apps to a single server.
<pipecloud> lewellyn: Egh, it works fine, it's just the packaging team sucking.
* pipecloud glares at the Debian ruby packager
<lewellyn> at least i don't have any 1.8.7 anymore (as of about thanksgiving...)
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<perldork> pipecloud: we do that and have two different rubies, i am curious about a case that has 9 different rubies that isn't discreet non-releated users like shared hosting would be
<lewellyn> perldork: "qualified configurations"
<pipecloud> perldork: Maybe his apps require certain patchlevels for different apps.
<pipecloud> Upgrading all the apps to use the latest patchlevel isn't something to be taken on lightly.
<perldork> lewellyn: i don't know what that means :)
<lewellyn> even if it works with another patchlevel, support would be a pain in the rear if it's not on a "supported" patchlevel.
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<pipecloud> It's often best to just leave it alone if it works fine.
<lewellyn> upgrade when the vendor says to.
<perldork> lewellyn: ah, you mentioned vendors - so you have commercial 3rd party apps or components being used that have patchlevel requirements?
<lewellyn> yes.
<perldork> gotcha
<pipecloud> Ops prefers to keep things stable, developers prefer to keep things up to date.
<perldork> pita
<perldork> :p
<perldork> for you
<pipecloud> security patches are reasons to upgrade. Money is a reason to upgrade.
<perldork> devops - prefer the balance of both
<lewellyn> and management just wants things to work.
<pipecloud> perldork: Egh, depends on what take on that term you hold.
<perldork> depends on the environment how that all works
* lewellyn is an old-school sysadmin
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<pipecloud> I don't like the job description meaning. I prefer developer+ops rather than just shiny new tools for ops.
<lewellyn> and i truly am old-school these days. :(
<perldork> of course - I've gone back and forth between both, our current team is a mix of both, we develop system architectures for our software as we develop then work with prod ops to hand off prod support as the product goes into wide release
* lewellyn wouldn't be surprised if he's the only one here who's had a shell on a System III UNIX machine.
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<lewellyn> and not a retrocomputing thing, but rather when they were still in the wild.
<perldork> my oldest professional OS experience is Sunos 4.1.2 :)
<lewellyn> bsd-era sunos.
<perldork> pizza box sparc 2
<perldork> :)
<lewellyn> i haven't run sunos 4 since my last sun4c
<lewellyn> that was. geez. almost 20 years ago.
<centrx> MacOS 1
<perldork> yeah, 1995 is when i started with unix
<lewellyn> centrx: no such thing.
<lewellyn> the Mac OS moniker didn't come until 7.6.
<lewellyn> (codenamed Harmony, for those curious)
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<lewellyn> it wasn't a popular nomenclature update until 7.7 was renamed to 8.0 prior to release ("Tempo").
<centrx> lewellyn, What do you call it then?
<centrx> System 1
<lewellyn> it was simply Macintosh System
<centrx> It is an OS
<lewellyn> but it wasn't called "Mac OS" until 1997.
<lewellyn> that's 13 years after the Macintosh was released. :)
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<centrx> OS Mac 1
* lewellyn really should get ruby running on classic Macs once he finishes his current ruby porting project.
<perldork> So have any of you found a ruby app server that performs as well as puma? We've been finding it really takes advantage of a multi-core server nicely - I've heard that the Enterprise Phusion Passenger product does as well.
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<lewellyn> the same things which have been holding back a more recent Perl have kept me from it, but i think most of those are now resolved.
<pipecloud> perldork: Well, 'performs as well' isn't really a good metric.
<perldork> I'm really liking having the ruby app server be out of process and using domain sockets for communication with the web server proxy ( nginx in our case )
<pipecloud> Are you using clustered mode?
<perldork> ok we can just talk anecdotally can't we pipeclooud?
<perldork> yes mutli worker multi thread
<pipecloud> perldork: Well in that case, pipes work much faster than puma.
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<perldork> you've used plain ruby processes reading from pipes in production? Interesting, what kinds of apps have you done with that?
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<pipecloud> perldork: jruby is faster if we're just shooting the breeze.
<perldork> running under tomcat?
<pipecloud> perldork: Sure. Haven't you ever written service oriented architectures that use custom binary protocols that any language can pass messages into?
<pipecloud> perldork: jboss through torquebox.
<perldork> not with ruby but i have with perl .. cool, gotcha.
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<perldork> for processes that read from named pipes
<perldork> yes I've used binary protocols with ruby
<pipecloud> I'd look into how much time you're spending in the ruby VM to decide how to proceed with your search for a faster application server.
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<perldork> I'm not searching for faster quite happy just asking for people to share experiences with what they've been happy with - not here to evangelize
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<perldork> hear to learn
<perldork> *here
<perldork> learn about ruby and learn to spell :)
<pipecloud> speeling is overated
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<pipecloud> perldork: I've use a lot of things. The things that make me happy are jruby's trinidad (tomcat) torquebox (jboss), puma, and unicorn (cruby)
<pipecloud> passenger doesn't make me happy
<perldork> +1 to that - we've moved away from it over the last year
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<perldork> we haven't experimented with moving to jruby yet, we were going to but then we found puma and that's been serving our scaling needs nicely so far. I've heard good things about trinidad, thanks for sharing that.
<perldork> you have any preferences between serving with tomcat over jboss for jruby apps?
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<pipecloud> perldork: Puma works on jruby if you wanted to switch over the runtime first to play around.
<perldork> i't s been 5 or more years since I've worked with tomcat
<pipecloud> With Jruby not having a GVL, it's pretty neat.
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<perldork> nice idea - oh yeah, i hear you there
<pipecloud> perldork: I tend to serve lighter things with trinidad. I keep to the ruby side of jruby for application servers because I'm bad at application servers in java.
<pipecloud> JBoss and torquebox are kitchen sinks.
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<perldork> gotcha
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<perldork> i did java development in the early 2000s for a half-dozen years and used Weblogic, Tomcat and Resin - Resin was definitely my favorite.
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<perldork> going to give puma with jruby a spin - that is a really cool idea.
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<pipecloud> perldork: Yeah. you can still cluster, but each thread for jruby doesn't lock the VM! :D
<perldork> yep that is a huge win
<revMARKbrown> HOW CAN I create a hotkey composed of "control o" to send "a"
<perldork> we've used a load testing tool called Tsung to simulate and test load performance - really cool Erlang-based tool that can simulate hundreds to thousands of users with an Erlang cluster - will be very interesting to see what the performance difference is with jruby and puma - hopefully changing from MRI 2.0 to jruby won't be too painful, might take a hack at doing that locally this weekend.
<pipecloud> revMARKbrown: Not really related to ruby, is it?
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<pipecloud> perldork: super neat.
<ddd> its fairly easy to go from MRI to JRuby
<pipecloud> I hope you have memory to spare.
<ddd> nd vis versa
<perldork> :) - thanks ddd
<ddd> np
<pipecloud> As long as you don't have many C extensions. The c-extention support is still experimental.
<pipecloud> extension
<ddd> by default jruby won't use any, so you'll find out real fast which gems you need replacements for
<perldork> nokogiri and mysql2 are the only two biggies i can think of
<perldork> ddd: cool deal
<ddd> you *can* enable the C-ext support, but its buggy as hell
<perldork> and with jruby we use jdbc not native drivers anyway correct?
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<perldork> i mean not the C-based ruby drivers ..
<ddd> there's like postgresql-jdbc iirc, and stuff
<perldork> cool
<ddd> i converted some time ago so I forget the names
<perldork> np
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<revMARKbrown> pipecloud sorry ruby noob my first day asking questions... and reading docs
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<pipecloud> revMARKbrown: No worries.
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<pipecloud> perldork: That's correct. Use the jdbc drivers in place of the c drivers.
<revMARKbrown> My handicap students studying Ruby rempa keyboard.. most have disabilities and only one hand.. scanning for info
<ddd> revmarkbrown hit ruby-lang.org for the ruby docs. iirc there's apidock.org|com as well
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<Morrolan> revMARKbrown: Such a shortcut would have to be set on the OS' level, that's hardly related to Ruby.
<Morrolan> Though, err, if they are using these computers regularly, I'd expect that such shortcuts are set up already?
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<nfk> since system() returns true, false or nil how what happens to the stdo from the command executed?
<shevy> revMARKbrown as I wrote before, you can remap keys however you wish via ruby-gnome. but you need to research how you use widgets in ruby-gnome
<nfk> -how
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<revMARKbrown> just reading... possibilities of Ruby... and what other libraries and programs it might bind with to achieve our goals
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<Morrolan> nfk: Backticks (`ls -l`) will return STDOUT. The command's exit status would then be accessible in $?.
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<Morrolan> There's also other ways of executing a shell command, some of which allow to capture stdout, stderr, the exit status, pid, and god knows what else.
<nfk> Morrolan, superb
<bleak> this looks like a good time to ask- can someone look over this code for me? i'm trying to test backticks myself https://gist.github.com/anonymous/3ec827267e56fe444118
<shevy> revMARKbrown if you need starters, binding_set = Gtk::BindingSet.new("j_and_k") and the accel-group -> accel_group.connect(shortcut_key_to_use, modifier_key, Gtk::ACCEL_VISIBLE)
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<nfk> Morrolan, i'm trying to run locate from ruby so that i can do bulk processing
<nfk> i could do it in pure ruby but doing that manually would be stupid when there's an index of all relevant files already
<Morrolan> nfk: In this case, getting stdout via backticks will probably be sufficient. :)
<shevy> bleak I would not put them into an array
<perldork> nfk: output is not captured with system() as you've seen. in the command passed to shell you can redirect fds to files, if you want to capture that in ruby from the command you can also use http://www.ruby-doc.org/stdlib-2.1.0/libdoc/open3/rdoc/Open3.html
<bleak> put them into an iterator?
<shevy> well it returns a string
<shevy> and you put that string into an array
<bleak> i see
<shevy> but you dont seem to *need* that array
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<nfk> perldork, i think Morrolan said something else ;)
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<revMARKbrown> Morrolan , respectfuly your anwer is not entirely correct, actually not all shortcuts have to be "set on the OS' level".. there is lower level libraries and programs that assist Ruby in achieve it as they do C++ , python and other higher level scripts...
<perldork> nfk: he did just giving you another option as well
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<nfk> revMARKbrown, actually it's more like "what's an OS" but let's not go there
<bleak> shevy, it throws an error bruce.rb:19: syntax error, unexpected '\n', expecting :: or '[' or '.'
<shevy> bleak no it works fine :)
<bleak> it's not working for me, under 2.0.0
<shevy> bleak the problem is your code is not valid ruby
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<revMARKbrown> k
<shevy> I was referring to `` syntax, not the rest
<shevy> class FileCounter(dir) is not valid
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<pipecloud> revMARKbrown: I guess the context matters. You want to have a keyboard shortcut output something in a ruby runtime somehow? I think if you explained more, it'd help.
<bleak> oh?
<Morrolan> If you need shortcuts due to disability, you'll probably want them accessible *everywhere*. This makes it the OS' task. I am unsure about the second part of your message, as I don't understand what you mean.
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<shevy> bleak if you run .new on an object, this goes into the def initialize() method
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<shevy> so you must change initialize to accept that argument, and you can call it dir. so def initialize(dir) instead
<bleak> oh okay
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<nfk> hint: lowest possible level would be kernel and then, probably, inittab or some console input but only kernel's SysRq are generally not overriden multiple times in the Linux GUI chain of command
<revMARKbrown> Pipecloud, would have to read the docs more I guess to code the possibilities and aims of what we are trying to pragnatically achieve.
<bleak> hm, not sure why i thought you could pass params to a class itself
<pipecloud> nfk: Wouldn't hardware be the lowest possible level?
<shevy> revMARKbrown what OS are you using btw?
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<pipecloud> revMARKbrown: I don't know what you're really doing though, just what you want.
<nfk> i wouldn't call those shortcuts
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<pipecloud> nfk: I don't think the name matters, just the behaviour. :)
<pipecloud> revMARKbrown: Can you describe what you're trying to do at a higher level?
<Morrolan> Right. Time to watch a movie. ;)
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<nfk> Morrolan, always good to do on Linux and remind yourself what it was like 10 years ago
<Morrolan> nfk: Sorry?
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<nfk> the state of linux multimedia support 10 years ago
<revMARKbrown> Microsoft Windows 7 but we are looking at cross platform via low level remapping.. There are libraries and even simple game libraries and software that assist in remapping keyboard.
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<Morrolan> Oh, haha, yea. You got a point there. :)
<nfk> revMARKbrown, i think you meant high level since the lower you go, the more platform specific it gets
<revMARKbrown> We love Ruby.. and we will master it.
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<revMARKbrown> Maybe: Ruby is the answer to lots of our problems; just my first day guys so plz be tolerant of an old man trying to help handicap kids. Will visit often and do a lot of research.
<revMARKbrown> I am not a computer science major, but a physics major.
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<nfk> that's okay, especially if you are old, up to about 70's computer scientists were basically physisics
<shevy> revMARKbrown ok if you are on windows, I don't think you have any realistic way for remapping inside of ruby programs. The best chance is a GUI binding in ruby, but that requires you to invest some time into understanding how that works. An easier way would be to search for some remap/keybinding tools in windows, I am sure there are some that are useful.
<jhass> revMARKbrown: tbh. I think you've chosen a screwdriver to hammer in a nail, choose the right tool for your problem, don't apply the tool you like the most
<revMARKbrown> Learned C++ and some Lua and Python.. but Ruby is much more attractive and my students can do more I feel. We also use autohotkey but it works only on windows ... not as object oriented.
<bleak> shecy: thanks :)
<shevy> yeah, thanks shecy!!!
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<shevy> you are welcome blenk
<mityaz> :D
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<pipecloud> revMARKbrown: Okay, so are you adding these shortcuts to a single application?
* bleak laughs
<bleak> new keyboard
<jhass> revMARKbrown: also global keymapping is something very OS specific, you'll have to build an abstraction with different backends if you want to go crossplatform
<nfk> wired/wireless?
<shevy> I usually just tab-complete bl<TAB> bl... these choices blackmesa blandflakes bleak blooberr____ Blue_Ice bluehavana
<revMARKbrown> jhasss don't disrespect me plz. It only robs me of my sincere intentions to help poor and disabled students. "a screwdriver for a hammer" remark belittles me and hurts... robs me of something... I don't like that
<pipecloud> jhass: Egh, maybe not.
<jhass> sorry, didn't meant to be disrespectful
<revMARKbrown> It will work even if I have to do it myself. Done!
<shevy> like a juggernauth... unstoppable once it moves ;)
<bleak> shevy yeah it's hard for tab complete to be worth it in a channel with 834 users
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<shevy> I just filter away the unimportant ones!
<bleak> hah
<nfk> bleak, i can tab complete you with 3 keys tab included
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<shevy> like pip* these ones nobody needs or wants ... ;P
<shevy> wait... 3 keys... lemme try
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<shevy> true
<bleak> we're all three key nicks woo
<pipecloud> Unlike shevy's crappy client, mine orders people based on when they last talked, giving preference to who I last highlighted.
<nfk> hi5
<shevy> nfk has like the mini nick ... 'nf' tab works
<pipecloud> If I just tab it highlights the last message sender.
<nfk> shevy, or you could just k
<bleak> pipecloud that's smart
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<shevy> you have my pity pipecloud
<shevy> k? hmm... lemme try
<pipecloud> bleak: I hope so.
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<shevy> nfk that is a long nick now...
<Tsunashi_Takuto> sadly this is still 3 keys away
<pipecloud> shevy: If only I could be forced to type more! That's exactly what I lament each night.
<Tsunashi_Takuto> i picked the longest i had
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<pipecloud> Tsunashi_Takuto: it takes just t<tab> for me
<Tsunashi_Takuto> oh
<Tsunashi_Takuto> right
<Tsunashi_Takuto> longer is not better?
<shevy> pipecloud man, look above, you wrote SO MUCH to perldork just before!
<pipecloud> or just tab if you're the most recent message in the channel.
<shevy> if anything you should type *less* not more
<shevy> Tsunashi_Takuto no, short is great
<pipecloud> shevy: My client lets me type less to type more.
<shevy> nfk <--- perfect nick
<Tsunashi_Takuto> pipecloud, for me tab with nothing repeats the last nick i tab completed
<shevy> pipecloud <--- 4 chars too long at least
<pipecloud> shevy: Not really.
<bleak> pipecloud is still a 3 char nick for me
<Tsunashi_Takuto> shevy, yeah, i initially couldn't reg it, i think
<shevy> hmm
<shevy> indeed
<pipecloud> Besides that shevy is a stupid nick, it's not terrible.
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<pipecloud> The most important thing is to have the first characters as unique as possible.
<Tsunashi_Takuto> then freenode did a nickname cleanup and it was freed
<shevy> pipecloud is not a stupid nick, it's just unnecessary
<pipecloud> shevy: It adds a lot of value.
<shevy> pipe2 would be nicer
<pipecloud> zyx is probably a good way to start a nick.
<pipecloud> shevy: I'm not 2 tho
<shevy> No I hate zyx
<shevy> it's opposite... xyz <--- now that is normal thinking
<pipecloud> shevy: No one cares what you like or don't like though, so there's that.
<Tsunashi_Takuto> pipecloud, the more redundent letters the lower signal to noise ratio
<pipecloud> Actually, more nicks start with xy than zy
<shevy> pipecloud of course many care
<Tsunashi_Takuto> now guess what that says about Tsunashi_Takuto
<shevy> who is takuto
<Tsunashi_Takuto> yeah
<pipecloud> You want the most unique combination of characters, hopefully they don't suck for a nick though!
<Tsunashi_Takuto> that's easy
<Tsunashi_Takuto> hash something
<shevy> p*p*c*o*d
<dachi> i got back my nick without _ a day ago :)
<pipecloud> Or just nick to zyx and group it.
<shevy> Tsunashi_Takuto first guess: Samurai. Second guess: some anime thing
<Tsunashi_Takuto> second
<Tsunashi_Takuto> now, back to coding
<shevy> omg I just googled...
<Tsunashi_Takuto> impressed?
<shevy> I dunno :\
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<pipecloud> such a weaboo.
<pipecloud> :D
<shevy> japanese are either super crazy or super awesome
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<pontiki> that's an IOR there
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<shevy> hey pontiki!
<pipecloud> pontikiwikitabi!
<AlexRussia> shevy: )))
<AlexRussia> pipecloud: pontikilab
<pipecloud> AlexRussia: pontikifate.
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<AlexRussia> pipecloud: pontikitikito
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<pipecloud> pontikitkatbar
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<AlexRussia> pipecloud: pipecloud??
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<pipecloud> AlexRussia: shevy?!
<AlexRussia> pipecloud: pipe cloud?
<AlexRussia> pipecloud: wth?
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<ddd> a cloud caused by pipes. Though in this case, I think pipecloud's is a bit cloudy
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<ddd> bwahahaha! get it? cloudy?! I slay me :)
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<pipecloud> Sunny days are for pansies.
<ddd> heh
<perldork> ddd: that's a nebulous thought
<ddd> Thats me. Nebulous and Nefarious
<perldork> ddd: Cirrusly?
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<ddd> Siriusly
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<Tsunashi_Takuto> what's the cleanest way to handle flow control for enumerable being iterated with foreach?
<revMARKbrown> FOUND ONE ALTERNATIVE... to sending keys and modifiers and other stuff... http://rubygems.org/gems/rubysdl ..it even does keystates pressing more than one key at a timeWOW
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<Tsunashi_Takuto> like if i determine that this particular element should not be skipped
<Tsunashi_Takuto> *should be
<pipecloud> perldork: seariously
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<shevy> hey AlexRussia
<Tsunashi_Takuto> revMARKbrown, i wonder if it registers keys or keycodes
<pipecloud> Tsunashi_Takuto: You're sure you need #foreach and not #each ?
<revMARKbrown> does both scancodes and keycodes
<shevy> revMARKbrown well, that requires you to have SDL
<Tsunashi_Takuto> pipecloud, what's the difference? the API reference is using foreach
<revMARKbrown> say it does events.. single keys.. and keystates pressing of more than one key
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<revMARKbrown> SDL is a library
<pipecloud> Tsunashi_Takuto: Leftover state.
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<Tsunashi_Takuto> i know what's SDL, I was just wondering since gaming libraries tend to do keycodes not keys
<revMARKbrown> SDL is cross platform also
<pipecloud> revMARKbrown: SDL is an external library to ruby. You're using the ruby bindings.
<Tsunashi_Takuto> pipecloud, such as local variables?
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<revMARKbrown> just researching pipecloud ; excited I am about the fact that with an SDL library 90 of what I want can be achieved.. looking into ruby bindings also
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<AlexRussia> shevy: :*
<pipecloud> Tsunashi_Takuto: Anything.
<revMARKbrown> Might create a revRUBY program... hehehehe. to easily create cross platform hotkeys when I've done.
<pipecloud> revMARKbrown: rubysdl is the bindings.
<revMARKbrown> yes
<Tsunashi_Takuto> anyway, what's the best way to control such loops?
<pipecloud> Tsunashi_Takuto: in what way?
<Tsunashi_Takuto> i vaguely remember that continue and break were shunned in functional languages
<Tsunashi_Takuto> and just wrapping everything in if statements is just bad
<revMARKbrown> My students will be able to create games etc in spare time. WOW... Ruby binding SDL library...
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<pipecloud> Tsunashi_Takuto: It really depends.
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<revMARKbrown> Tsunashi you into Haskell?
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<revMARKbrown> THANKS eveyone, just confirmed RUBY is what I need to complete my project... will see you soon. Research time.
<AlexRussia> revMARKbrown: you say SDL? try it:https://eval.in/99654
<revMARKbrown> Thanks pipecloud for pointing me in the right way ruby bindings.. Rubysdl
<pipecloud> um cheers.
<pipecloud> AlexRussia: Do you know what you're talking about?
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<pipecloud> Obvs use 'SDL'.reverse
<pipecloud> Wait I can't spell.
<AlexRussia> pipecloud: maymaymaybe
<AlexRussia> pipecloud: LDS?not fun
<AlexRussia> revMARKbrown: students?
<AlexRussia> Oo
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<revMARKbrown> LSD <========= hehehehehehehe. That is a lasting trip!
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<AlexRussia> revMARKbrown: hm, simple is fun, idk short way (
<AlexRussia> revMARKbrown: magic magic, SDL-LSD
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<AlexRussia> no,no,no, me don't used lsd.... in Russia some drug - natural ))))
<pipecloud> AlexRussia: 'SDL'.split(//).tap{|str| str.unshift(str.pop)}.join
<AlexRussia> pipecloud: Oo, is smells perl!
<pipecloud> AlexRussia: Only because a simple regular expression.
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<AlexRussia> pipecloud: ah
<pipecloud> Ruby was invisioned by Matz to be perl one-liner style friendly
<pipecloud> envisioned?
<Tsunashi_Takuto> [23:55] <revMARKbrown> Tsunashi you into Haskell? // no
<AlexRussia> pipecloud: <where link to comics xkcd about regexp....>
<ddd> envisioned
<pipecloud> ddd: envisioned or envisaged?
<AlexRussia> Tsunashi_Takuto: you on Ruby channel, used # for comments
<ddd> first
<pipecloud> ddd: envisioned or rum?
<Tsunashi_Takuto> AlexRussia, and you should be behind the great wall of russia
<AlexRussia> pipecloud: http://xkcd.com/208/
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<ddd> i hate rum, so again the first
<AlexRussia> Tsunashi_Takuto: great wall?
<pipecloud> ddd: Congratulations, you are Turing complete!
<ddd> hehe
<shevy> ddd: pipecloud or girls?
<ddd> girls
<AlexRussia> Tsunashi_Takuto: you, maybe , behind the great sae wall in your Japan....
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<AlexRussia> shevy: ahah
<AlexRussia> shevy: girls in pipecloud
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<shevy> AlexRussia he means a censor-wall!
<Tsunashi_Takuto> AlexRussia, i sometimes wonder what it would be like if we really were an island
<AlexRussia> shevy: he have say forewall?
<Tsunashi_Takuto> <-- eu
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<Tsunashi_Takuto> ah, so much nicer with russia nearby
<shevy> AlexRussia no idea. I only heard of that reference with the great wall of china, no other country so far
<Tsunashi_Takuto> *without
<AlexRussia> Tsunashi_Takuto: what?
<Tsunashi_Takuto> i'm really getting sleepy
<pipecloud> Tsunashi_Takuto: shevy or anyone else?
<Tsunashi_Takuto> AlexRussia, don't what me
<AlexRussia> Tsunashi_Takuto: what?
<pipecloud> AlexRussia: Mine was more neat though, admit that at least. :D
<shevy> hmm "anyone else" is a pretty large term pipecloud
<pipecloud> shevy: It is.
<AlexRussia> pipecloud: Mine?
<pipecloud> Luckily, it's something you can easily comprehend.
<pipecloud> AlexRussia: No. Yours.
<Tsunashi_Takuto> shevy, actually iran also has one
<pipecloud> AlexRussia: 'SDL'.split(//).tap{|str| str.unshift(str.pop)}.join
<shevy> but iran is so much smaller than china!
<AlexRussia> pipecloud: http://xkcd.com/208/
<jhass> pipecloud: we got .chars for .split(//)
<pipecloud> jhass: Ooh.
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<shevy> it would be called... a middle great wall... of Iran ... :P
<Tsunashi_Takuto> as for russia, they might have something for censoring of the net, if not, i'm pretty sure it's on their 5 year plan
<pipecloud> AlexRussia: 'SDL'.chars.tap{|str| str.unshift(str.pop)}.join
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<AlexRussia> pipecloud: http://xkcd.com/208/
<pipecloud> AlexRussia: 'SDL'.chars.tap{|str| str.unshift(str.pop)}.join
<pipecloud> No more regular expression
<AlexRussia> pipecloud: http://xkcd.com/208/
<AlexRussia> Tsunashi_Takuto: lol
<pipecloud> AlexRussia: Though there is doubtless another relevant xkcd.
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<AlexRussia> pipecloud: emm?
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<pipecloud> AlexRussia: 'SDL'.chars.tap{|str| str.unshift(str.pop)}.join # Notice the lack of regular expression.
<shevy> yes there are other xkcd, you know your stuff well pipecloud!
<pipecloud> shevy: I'm glad people in your country can read! What would we ever do without you? (Besides probably already have RubyOS...)
<AlexRussia> pipecloud: haha
<Tsunashi_Takuto> pipecloud, RubyOS sounds nice
<pipecloud> AlexRussia: You are an XKCD link generator, aren't you?
<Tsunashi_Takuto> kinda like lisp machines
<pipecloud> Tsunashi_Takuto: Just make JavaOS run JRuby.
<AlexRussia> pipecloud: http://xkcd.com/965/
<shevy> pipecloud yeah, we even beat your folks on the education system AND we use the metric system on top of that. now beat that!
<AlexRussia> JavaOS?
<AlexRussia> Oo
<shevy> no, not java
<AlexRussia> RubyOS?
<shevy> yeah
<AlexRussia> SOlaris?
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<AlexRussia> Oo
<shevy> no, not Solaris
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<pipecloud> shevy: I beat 'my folks' on education system too, and I'm capable of thinking in more than just powers of ten. Math skills.
<pipecloud> Beat that bru
<AlexRussia> Cocaine?
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<AlexRussia> Silent....
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<Tsunashi_Takuto> don't worry, that's the correct reaction to russians everywhere in the world
<AlexRussia> Heroine?
<AlexRussia> Tsunashi_Takuto: +100
<AlexRussia> Tsunashi_Takuto: to relevant
<pipecloud> We could all use a little heroine in our lives. Female superheroes! :D
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<AlexRussia> pipecloud: Canabis?
<Tsunashi_Takuto> a normal heroine will be fine, as long as he's not yandere or something
<pipecloud> AlexRussia: Krocodil?
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<AlexRussia> pipecloud: no, Bear....
<Tsunashi_Takuto> *she's
<pipecloud> AlexRussia: PCP?
<AlexRussia> pipecloud: o, you know drugs...
<AlexRussia> Cannabis*
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* nfk yawns again
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<nfk> do we have an 8ball here?
<AlexRussia> really know
<AlexRussia> i found PCP
<pipecloud> AlexRussia: Phencyclidine?!
<pipecloud> Oh balls, you linked it. :(
<AlexRussia> pipecloud: you say PCP
<pipecloud> I was trying to spell it correctly. :(
<pipecloud> You kids and your fandangled google. :(
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<nfk> i should keep writing this program to clean the HDD from duplicates but at the same time i'm at the point where i can barely even read IRC
<AlexRussia> pipecloud: google?in ass your google
<shevy> nfk remember, a bed is a comfy place
<shevy> lol
<pipecloud> nfk: I'm sure you could just give mechanical turk ssh access and wait.
<shevy> AlexRussia \o/
<AlexRussia> shevy: smoke Cannabis with me, bro!
<nfk> shevy, with a desktop machine and wire keyboard and 24" LCD and bad eyesight and 12 year old glasses, i don't think so
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<pipecloud> shevy: It excites me that you approve of google being in my ass.
<nfk> *wired
<shevy> pipecloud hey, I would have never thought about that!
<pipecloud> shevy: I'm used to it.
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<shevy> AlexRussia I can't ... I need to prepare for the coming week at work... taxonomy crap
<nfk> shevy, put everyone under homo sapiens except for your boss
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<shevy> hmm
<shevy> lemme try to find out how many homo entries there are
<nfk> then look up the ape that looks most similar to your boss and assign that to boss
<nfk> profit
<shevy> my boss is rather slender, quite small and has glasses
<AlexRussia> pipecloud: shevy read classic https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PiHKAL
<pipecloud> AlexRussia: Sorry, much like shevy, I don't read.
<shevy> nfk, only four homo entries in total that I can see there... Homo heidelbergensis, Homo sapiens, Homo sapiens neanderthalensis, Homo sapiens ssp. Denisova
<AlexRussia> Вутшыщмф,
<AlexRussia> Denisova?
<shevy> yeah
<pipecloud> shevy: What about homogenous milk byproduct?
<nfk> if you happen to be in some large company, you might want to look at cephalopods to classify them
<shevy> pipecloud that belongs to bovine
<pipecloud> Mmm cephalopoden!
<nfk> shevy, all homo sapiens are one species
<pipecloud> shevy: Let's not bring your mother into this.
<nfk> in fact, protip, species is defined with two names
<nfk> s/names/words/
<shevy> AlexRussia: Denisova Cave in Siberia
<nfk> if more follow, that's a subspecies
<pipecloud> shevy: BromoDMA! :D
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<shevy> DMA?
<AlexRussia> DMA!
<AlexRussia> pipecloud: shevy it? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dimethoxyamphetamine
<pipecloud> Dee emm 'motherfucking' aye.
<shevy> I don't know any drugs
<pipecloud> AlexRussia: shevy is a hardcore drug user
<AlexRussia> also MDMA and PMMA
<shevy> pipecloud you know so much about drugs!
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<pipecloud> shevy: I know a thing or two about drugs, yeah.
<AlexRussia> need ask ruby team, who used drugs when write code
<pipecloud> If you want to know what I know well, just ask about porn.
<AlexRussia> pipecloud: shevy drugs drugs drugs
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<shevy> nah, let's keep that for the real experts
<pipecloud> AlexRussia: there was a paper some guy wrote about using LSD to fit a whole system into his head.
<AlexRussia> pipecloud: in russian 'drug' - is friend
<pipecloud> shevy: But you are expert and future developer of RubyOS!
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<shevy> pipecloud google in your ass!
<pipecloud> AlexRussia: In post-soviet Russia, drugs do you.
<AlexRussia> pipecloud: ahahhaahah, nice
<shevy> pipecloud hmm not realistic, RubyOS would not yield profit
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<AlexRussia> shevy: pipecloud RubyOS: drugs is magic!
<AlexRussia> XD
<pipecloud> AlexRussia: Friendship is magic too.
<AlexRussia> pipecloud: when you used drugs - yea
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<AlexRussia> yes*
<AlexRussia> pipecloud: why me lie?when you used drugs - every MAGIC!
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<pipecloud> AlexRussia: I might know a lot about sex, but it doesn't mean I've had any. :(
<pipecloud> Same goes for drugs.
<pipecloud> And ruby.
<AlexRussia> Drugs....and ruby
<AlexRussia> Drugs -> Ruby
<shevy> that arrow confuses me
<pipecloud> shevy: No dashrocket for you?
<AlexRussia> pipecloud: lol
<shevy> I don't know why it is there
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<AlexRussia> shevy: arrow?hahaa
<pipecloud> shevy: Drugs are a gateway drug to Ruby, obvs.
<shevy> hmm
<pipecloud> shevy: Do you speak Austrian?
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<AlexRussia> need call here Matz and sound he
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<AlexRussia> XDDDD
<shevy> pipecloud yeah
<pipecloud> AlexRussia: He's far too important to hang out with the likes of us.
<AlexRussia> pipecloud: Do me spaek drugs....
<pipecloud> shevy: I always thought it was a silly language.
<AlexRussia> pipecloud: but interesing, what he say about it....
<shevy> pipecloud nope, it is awesome
<pipecloud> Is that so
<AlexRussia> speak....spaek
<AlexRussia> ae
<AlexRussia> ae
<AlexRussia> ae
<AlexRussia> ae
<pipecloud> lua is a drug
<AlexRussia> pipecloud: luadrugs
<shevy> pipecloud tune in man http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_w4Xulsjo5I
<AlexRussia> pipecloud: LDG
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<pipecloud> shevy: Sorry, I don't listen to youtube videos linked by strangers who aren't redditors.
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<centrx> Devastating
<shevy> wat!
<shevy> I am a STRONG REDDITOR
<AlexRussia> my face when i used drugs: http://cs7001.vk.me/c617131/v617131424/1f62/TsqQEpSM02U.jpg
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<shevy> well ok I lack the time these days, but I USED to be strong
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<AlexRussia> redditor?
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<nfk> hacker on steroids
<shevy> AlexRussia hah do you know who drew that painting, without googling?
<AlexRussia> shevy: of course
<shevy> you are googling right now!!!
<AlexRussia> shevy: Edvard Monch
<AlexRussia> or Munch
<shevy> you googled :(
<AlexRussia> i'm dont right in english
<AlexRussia> no
<AlexRussia> me know
<AlexRussia> long time
<AlexRussia> loooooooooooooooong timw
<AlexRussia> time
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<shevy> when I first read the name, I thought he must have been german, but he came from norway
<AlexRussia> Me liked this image....is like my soul....
<nfk> and he was so derenged he cut off his ear, iirc
<nfk> *deranged
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<shevy> it's quite an ugly picture but easy to remember
<nfk> why do i suddenly remember about another deranged norwegian?
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<shevy> don't know
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<nfk> shevy, you are talking about scream (assuming i remember the title correctly), right?
<nfk> *the scream
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<dachi> i wanted to own that original painting from long ago
<perldork> people who do anything memorable enough for society to remember them for long periods of time are generally really unbalanced
<AlexRussia> right, it scream
<AlexRussia> the scream ;)
<shevy> nfk yeah
<shevy> Der Schrei
<nfk> shevy, somehow i suspected it was that painting the moment you asked him if he knew the author
<nfk> just proves how overused it is
<shevy> dachi is that not a little over your budget? :P
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<dachi> :D
<AlexRussia> shevy: if you think, me past here picture and never dont know about it - is LIE
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<shevy> wat picture
<AlexRussia> dachi: DRUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUGS
<shevy> cool
<AlexRussia> me liked someone russian, wait, i search in wikipedia image
<dachi> est kasyak chuvak :D
<AlexRussia> dachi: нет, тока LSD
<shevy> van Gogh is a lot easier to understand than Edvard Munch
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<AlexRussia> shevy: now youe need say: me crazy
<AlexRussia> you*
<shevy> AlexRussia man that is so negative!
<shevy> no, just negative
<AlexRussia> shevy: is war
<dachi> i wish i owned those two pictures i posted :) make me rich
<pipecloud> shevy: Link to redditor for confirm? Bonus if banana for scale.
<dachi> no i'm joking i don't need much money
<AntelopeSalad> if i want to detect the presence of a directory or file, do i need to do both Dir.exist? and File.exist?
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<MJBrune> so I am using ruby-gtk and I am trying to have an array of windows. The array should have .last in it right?
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<pipecloud> MJBrune: Arrays do have #last, yes.
<shevy> MJBrune arrays in ruby always have that
<AlexRussia> shevy: but you get here information https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vasily_Vereshchagin
<pipecloud> You can also do #[] with -1 as the argument
<MJBrune> array.#last not array.last?
<pipecloud> MJBrune: # means instance method in ruby.
<shevy> MJBrune never use the # for a method invocation
<nfk> dachi, yeah, i reckon a few million euros would last me for the next 60 years
<shevy> a few million euros!!!
<centrx> MJBrune, # is used in conversation and documentation. It is not Ruby syntax
<shevy> what are you guys doing ROBBING A BANK or what
<pipecloud> Hopefully
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<MJBrune> hmm what does # mea in documentaiton then?
<dachi> :)
<pipecloud> MJBrune: Instance method
<pipecloud> Whereas . means class method
<dachi> AlexRussia I thought that one was of salvador dali
<nfk> shevy, i said would
<dachi> sorry
<MJBrune> alright.
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<shevy> dachi perhaps I can buy cheaper paintings and then sell them 30 years later for a profit
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<jhass> pipecloud: MJBrune actually :: means class method
<nfk> shevy, you can you just have to know which artist wil lbe famous in 30 years
<dachi> i wish I could :))
<pipecloud> jhass: Actually . does canonically.
<pipecloud> :: is valid too.
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<shevy> nfk yeah
<shevy> damn future
<nfk> it's the past i hate
<jhass> . is for calling methods, in docs # denotes instance methods, :: denotes class methods
<AlexRussia> shevy: also this picture https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morning_in_a_Pine_Forest
<MJBrune> so does #last return the object or the index number of last?
<nfk> object
<AlexRussia> dachi: where?
<nfk> without removing it from the array
<shevy> AlexRussia that one is cute
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<pipecloud> jhass: For documentation, # is instance method, . is for class and :: is also acceptable for class.
<AlexRussia> shevy: haha
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<dachi> im from georgia
<pipecloud> What documentation do you use that doesn't use . for class?
<AlexRussia> dachi: is goor or bad?
<dachi> which one?
<jhass> pipecloud: what do you use that does?
<dachi> both are great
<dachi> i like paintings
<nfk> %w{a b c d}.last
<jhass> pipecloud: http://ruby-doc.org/core-2.1.0/Array.html for example, look at the sidebar
<nfk> MJBrune, you know, you can always run basic syntax in irb without effort
<shevy> MJBrune .last is the same as [-1]
<centrx> BasicObject.class == Class !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
<shevy> >> %w{a b c d}.last
<eval-in> shevy => "d" (https://eval.in/99660)
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<tibounise> hi !
<AlexRussia> >> 5.times{ print "DRUGS!" }
<eval-in> AlexRussia => DRUGS!DRUGS!DRUGS!DRUGS!DRUGS!5 (https://eval.in/99661)
<AlexRussia> Ou
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<AlexRussia> >> 5.times{ print "DRUGS!" }
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<eval-in> AlexRussia => DRUGS!DRUGS!DRUGS!DRUGS!DRUGS!5 (https://eval.in/99662)
<pipecloud> jhass: http://rubydoc.info/stdlib/erb/frames uses nothing in their parsing.
<shevy> AlexRussia you are so obsessed :P
<Morrolan> Sheesh, put some spaces in there. :P
<centrx> >> puts "Hi tibounise!"
<eval-in> centrx => Hi tibounise! ... (https://eval.in/99663)
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<nfk> dachi, isn't Georgia kinda run down?
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<AlexRussia> shevy: i'm mixed XD
<nfk> also i feel kinda stupid for not realising this earlier
<dachi> kinda yes
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<nfk> i did whois dachi a while ago to see who here wanted famous paintings but didn't notice it was georgian surname
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<AlexRussia> >> 5.times{ print "Hi tibounise!" }
<eval-in> AlexRussia => Hi tibounise!Hi tibounise!Hi tibounise!Hi tibounise!Hi tibounise!5 (https://eval.in/99664)
<AlexRussia> XD
<nfk> also i'm kinda amazed there were no references to the war
<tibounise> >> puts "testing"
<eval-in> tibounise => testing ... (https://eval.in/99665)
<AlexRussia> nfk: where?
<nfk> in this chan
<tibounise> awesome ! :D
<jhass> pipecloud: I showed you a doc convention that uses :: for class methods, here's another one: ri Object::new So where's yours using .?
<AlexRussia> nfk: what war you interesing?
<shevy> nfk dunno. I don't think many people are interested in wars instigated by those who abuse power
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<AlexRussia> jhass: Drugs! ;)
<pipecloud> jhass: I'm looking through both rdoc and yard, the two biggest doc generators. Give me a moment. :)
<AlexRussia> nfk: you about picture?
<nfk> stop using google translate
<nfk> and god help you if you don't know which one i might be talking about
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<shevy> use babelfish!
<AlexRussia> nfk: apotheosis?
<nfk> no
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<pipecloud> jhass: According to RDoc you're correct! http://docs.seattlerb.org/rdoc/RDoc/Markup.html#class-RDoc::Markup-label-Links
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<AlexRussia> nfk: who YOU?
<AlexRussia> nfk: men???
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<AlexRussia> nfk: Oo
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<shevy> pipecloud why didn't you know as the docu expert :P
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<AlexRussia> nfk: and me dont used google translate
<pipecloud> shevy: Why didn't you correct me, oh knower of all things badly documented?
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<shevy> pipecloud it's too much fun to see you that way!
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<pipecloud> shevy: You're a cruel person! But at least you don't matter. :D
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<mrmcdonalds> hello everyone
<shevy> I am only cruel to those to be deserving
<tibounise> hi
<dachi> nfk there's olympics now near our borders and they "technically" cut out parts of our map on images https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/t1/1794684_10152262433671388_1631230715_n.jpg
<mrmcdonalds> anyone use shoes?
<AlexRussia> nfk: also, you KDE user
* dachi brb
<shevy> mrmcdonalds not anymore, it wants java! :( at least the 4-version
<pipecloud> jhass: I found where I got the . from. YARD makes you use . for class methods.
<mrmcdonalds> is that wat gtk is????
<nfk> am i supposed to be scared now that he know's i'm using kde?
<shevy> I remember with much love how _why's original shoes worked cutely...
<pipecloud> Also: Note that class methods must not be referred to with the "::" namespace separator. Only modules, classes and constants should use "::".
<shevy> mrmcdonalds, no, shoes should work without gtk too
<nfk> dachi, ouch, that's even worse than what chinese did to us
<mrmcdonalds> ok i am having some problems with it
<shevy> though perhaps it depended on gtk, I don't recall anymore
<AlexRussia> nfk: scared used kde?ahhahahahaha
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<mrmcdonalds> i can get the normal boxes to work but making arrows and such doesnt
<AlexRussia> nfk: also, you dont say, WHO YOU?
<mrmcdonalds> the examples right from the site cut and pasted
<mrmcdonalds> cant figure out why
<shevy> nfk nah, KDE has some nifty applications. I love kde konsole, it is better than gnome-shell
<nfk> dachi, during the olympics opening, obviously
<AlexRussia> shevy: konsole? yakuake!
<pipecloud> jhass: I write rdoc myself, but at least I know where I picked up the . for class methods rule from. I'll personally change to ::, but I think that both are confusing for the uninitiated.
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<shevy> yakuake is ok too but I barely need it much
<shevy> konsole on the other hand I need all the time
<mrmcdonalds> shevy do you know what package gtk is?
<mrmcdonalds> is cant find anything about this problem on goggle
<jhass> sure, I just think that # and . is even more confusing than # and ::
<shevy> mrmcdonalds well that depends what you mean with 'package'
<nfk> shevy, indeed
<shevy> do you mean a linux distribution package?
<mrmcdonalds> its called atk-bridge
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<shevy> ah
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<mrmcdonalds> failed to load atk-bridge
<pipecloud> jhass: I don't personally care. I think that if you keep to proper method naming, :: makes more sense.
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<shevy> and
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<shevy> but you need that only for gtk3
<mrmcdonalds> wow
<mrmcdonalds> you have it on speed dial
<mrmcdonalds> thank you ha
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<shevy> mrmcdonalds, yeah, I compile everything from source with ruby, giving the urls back is just a "url atspicore" (aliased to at-spi2-core). The reason I remember is is because when I compile gtk3, I sometimes get that "missing atk-bridge" error message
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<AlexRussia> nfk: Who you/
<AlexRussia> nfk: Who you?
<AlexRussia> nfk: Who you?
<AlexRussia> nfk: Who you?
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<AlexRussia> nfk: Who you?
<mrmcdonalds> thank you
* dachi back
<shevy> gtk3 is quite nice though, I have much less problems compiling it than gtk2
<mrmcdonalds> great thank you
<tibounise> AlexRussia: plz don't flood
<dachi> nfk are you from japan?
<mrmcdonalds> i dont even remember how to install these
<shevy> oh
<AlexRussia> tibounise: but he dont have reply
<mrmcdonalds> are they make files?
<shevy> hmm
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<shevy> mrmcdonalds standard GNU autoconfigure. will create Makefile from Makefile.ac or Makefile.in I believe
<pipecloud> jhass: Oh hey, you're ZYX!
<mrmcdonalds> does install order matter?
<shevy> yeah
<pipecloud> SeñorZYX! :D
<shevy> I dont remember which one of the two you need first
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<mrmcdonalds> lol ok
<mrmcdonalds> np
<mrmcdonalds> it will tell me
<shevy> hehe yeah
<pipecloud> The only consistent committer to diaspora*! :D
<zachrab> im trying to install a gem and i get the following error
<zachrab> ERROR: Failed to build gem native extension
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<mrmcdonalds> shevy how do i do it sorry?
<shevy> yes, it tries to compile something and failed zachrab
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<mrmcdonalds> i am in the file in console
<nfk> dachi, no, japan was one of the last
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<nfk> china was before us
<mrmcdonalds> sudo ./INSTALL?
<zachrab> shevy: how can i troubleshoot
<shevy> mrmcdonalds you mean compile from source? if you download it, extract it first, then cd into that dir, then run. "./configure --prefix=/usr", "make", then "make install"
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<Morrolan> If those sources follow any sort of convention, INSTALL will be a textfile describing the installation process, mrmcdonalds.
<nfk> and they stopped at the end of the ramp during opening and that stole spotlight from our team
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<shevy> zachrab well
<Morrolan> As a rule of thumb, don't just try to execute random files...
<shevy> zachrab best way is to go to that directory first
<nfk> it's a shame our hockey team didn't push them further
<tibounise> zachrab: Do you have the required software to build your gem ? (if you're running Linux, look for something like build-essentials)
<shevy> zachrab, what gem is it btw
<zachrab> im on mac os
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<zachrab> tibounise: mac os
<zachrab> shevy: artoo-arduino
<shevy> hmm
<pipecloud> shevy: Actually, you should set the prefix to /usr/local
<shevy> never tried that, let's see
<tibounise> zachrab: Okay, have you installed XCode and the CLI tools from XCode ?
<shevy> pipecloud come on man, don't be so scared!
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<pipecloud> Assuming you're using a distro that has a package management system.
<zachrab> tibounise: i believe so
<mrmcdonalds> says no make file
<Morrolan> Hands off of /usr for non-packaged software.
<Morrolan> /usr/local it is, shevy! *grins*
<pipecloud> shevy: One should be careful to not upset the PMS gods.
<zachrab> tibounise: how do i check
<shevy> mrmcdonalds did you run configure already?
<mrmcdonalds> yes it worked
<mrmcdonalds> i do not need to change dir right
<shevy> ok, then "make" in that same dir must work 100%
<zachrab> shevy: which dir
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<mrmcdonalds> file on my desk
<pipecloud> mrmcdonalds: Always read INSTALL text files.
<dachi> nfk yeah i know how that feels
<shevy> zachrab gems are downloaded in some local directory
<pipecloud> Or README if that's missing.
<tibounise> zachrab: run "xcode-select --install"
<shevy> zachrab, on my current system I download into /usr/lib/ruby/gems/1.9.1/cache/
<nfk> dachi, where from?
<pipecloud> zachrab: Gist the error text in full along with the command that produced it, that'll help a lot more.
<zachrab> pipecloud: ok
<shevy> zachrab you can unpack that local gem then via: "gem unpack name_of_gem.gem"
<pipecloud> shevy: mmm, probably not.
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<pipecloud> zachrab: I'd focus on getting me that gist. :D
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<mrmcdonalds> shevy i see why its not working... it says that intltool is too old, i need .40 or later
<shevy> hmm
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<mrmcdonalds> is there an apt-get?
<pipecloud> zachrab: Try grabbing the previous release version.
<mrmcdonalds> never heard of that package lol
<shevy> zachrab I just tried that artoo thing gem but I cant get it to compile, it only has a Rakefile which does not work at all for me
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<dachi> there are a lot of such happengings with my country, our culture, sports and etc, plus we're kind of 'people with pride' and I can tell how bad such things can feel
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<shevy> mrmcdonalds, intltool is very small: "wget http://launchpad.net/intltool/trunk/0.50.2/+download/intltool-0.50.2.tar.gz"
<pipecloud> zachrab: can you try to install the gem again with --trace?
<zachrab> shevy: so its not just me
<zachrab> pipecloud: ya what command
<shevy> 134K is it when packaged as .tar.xz
<zachrab> pipecloud: gem install --trace artoo-arduino
<pipecloud> zachrab: 'sudo gem install artoo-arduino --trace'
<pipecloud> zachrab: It's also a bit odd how you use sudo with rvm.
<zachrab> ERROR: While executing gem ... (OptionParser::InvalidOption)
<zachrab> invalid option: --trac
<pipecloud> You're not supposed to do that, you've likely hosed your RVM a bit. You should repair the permissions.
<shevy> zachrab yeah... it seems to go in non-standard way too. no extconf.rb and no setup.rb and no install.rb ... only a Rakefile
<pipecloud> zachrab: I didn't say 'trac'
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<zachrab> ERROR: While executing gem ... (OptionParser::InvalidOption) invalid option: --trace
<zachrab> thats what i get
<Morrolan> --backtrace it is.
<pipecloud> Oh. Well give me a sec, I'll give this a go myself.
<zachrab> pipecloud: thx
<pipecloud> zachrab: Oh right, Morrolan is right. --backtrace
<Morrolan> --trace is Rake, among others.
<pipecloud> Morrolan: shevy is right about it using a Rakefile, which makes sense.
<Morrolan> Now I'm missing context. :D
<zachrab> pipecloud: i get the same thing as the gist
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<zachrab> Morrolan: im trying to install a gem
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<pipecloud> zachrab: Alright, give me a second. I'm trying to locate a proper version if a previous one will install properly
<shevy> zachrab: has someone else before you tried to install that yet ;)
<mrmcdonalds> where does wget save files too lol
<zachrab> shevy: i believe so
<mrmcdonalds> i cant find the download
<zachrab> pipecloud: ok
<Morrolan> Current directory, by default.
<shevy> mrmcdonalds in your current working directory
<pipecloud> mrmcdonalds: pwd
<pipecloud> zachrab: It may be a problem with the ruby version
<zachrab> pipecloud: thats what i thought
<pipecloud> It installed fine on 2.0, trying 2.1 p0
<pipecloud> zachrab: You're using HEAD, right?
<zachrab> pipecloud:ya
<nfk> dachi, true, and this reminds me that you will probably have to learn to live with that you country layout
<pipecloud> If shevy weren't in a competition with me, I'd link him this: http://i.imgur.com/26nRFTF.jpg
<nfk> since it's unlikley EU or NATO will want to let a country with disputed territories join
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<nfk> *unlikely
<shevy> nfk well, greece vs. turkiye over cyprus
<nfk> and even if at some future point it might be possible to reclaim them, it might not be a nice experience due to civil settlers even if it was an occupying force
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<zachrab> pipecloud: which patch of 2.0 did it work for
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<mrmcdonalds> shevy lol
<nfk> shevy, which is why the talks with turkey are frozen
<mrmcdonalds> now i need xml::parser pearl module
<mrmcdonalds> this is gettin rediculous haha
<pipecloud> zachrab: ruby 2.0.0p353 (2013-11-22 revision 43784) [x86_64-darwin12.5.0]
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<zachrab> pipecloud: did it work for 2.1 for u?
<pipecloud> zachrab: oh balls. it just installed on 2.1 p0
<shevy> mrmcdonalds that one you can then install via "perl Makefile.PL" and make and make install I think
<zachrab> pipecloud: so why is it not working for me??!?!?!
<shevy> mrmcdonalds I use lots of aliases to help me in that btw
<zachrab> pipecloud: not fair!
<pipecloud> zachrab: Try p0.
<mrmcdonalds> you have everything i need on speeddial
<mrmcdonalds> lol
<shevy> "perlinst" for perl installations, "doit" for normal compilations, "cmakeusr" for compiling into /usr prefix etc...
<mrmcdonalds> i really really appreciate the help
<pipecloud> mrmcdonalds: Are you sure your distro doesn't have packages for this?
<nfk> mrmcdonalds, like your dealer?
<mrmcdonalds> using ubuntu
<mrmcdonalds> not sure
<pipecloud> mrmcdonalds: What's the package you want?
<shevy> mrmcdonalds yeah, it is just an "url xmlparser" and it sets my xorg-buffer, then I can copy paste into IRC with middle mouse button
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<pipecloud> libxml2-dev perhaps?
<zachrab> pipecloud: i dont have that version of ruby should i install it
<shevy> now the fun starts - guessing names of distribution packages! :)
<zachrab> pipecloud: rvm install ruby-2.1.0?
<pipecloud> zachrab: I use ruby-install, but I'm fetching rvm to be able to install HEAD builds.
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<mrmcdonalds> working pipecload
<pipecloud> zachrab: `rvm list known`
<mrmcdonalds> well see if its compatible
<pipecloud> mrmcdonalds: Do you just need an xml parser?
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<pipecloud> I don't know what you need.
<mrmcdonalds> not sure
<mrmcdonalds> ls
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<shevy> for compiling from source probably
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<shevy> for installing the packages via ubuntu, probably not
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<dachi> nfk yes but those people who're in my capital (temporarily) have their own homes there, they will go back and whatever happens to those settlers there happens. okay, I don't think I should talk about political and countries issues here anymore, but it was nice to have a conversation with you.
<zachrab> pipecloud: using ruby 2.0.0p247 and get same error
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<pipecloud> zachrab: This is bovversome
<zachrab> pipecloud: i know!
<pipecloud> mrmcdonalds: What are you doing that you need something you don't have?
<mgberlin> do two colons (::) in front of a method always inply Class Method?
<zachrab> pipecloud: what should i ddo?
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<apeiros> mgberlin: no
<apeiros> :: can always be used as a substitute for .
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<apeiros> however, that's rather legacy style and you shouldn't.
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<pipecloud> zachrab: Fix your permissions on your rvm directory first
<pipecloud> never use sudo on a user install of rvm.
<zachrab> pipecloud: how do i do that
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<pipecloud> you can use rvmsudo though if you think you must
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<mgberlin> apeiros: I'm looking at a spec and it says describe "::deal_from" do
<pipecloud> zachrab: I think rvm has documentation on it. I haven' used it in a long time.
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<pipecloud> mgberlin: It refers to a class method, yes.
<AlexRussia> cocaine, heroine, cannabis?
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<pipecloud> AlexRussia: not underground enough
<apeiros> mgberlin: that's documentation lingo. and yes, there :: is used to indicate class methods, and # for instance methods
<mgberlin> cool, thanks
<apeiros> I thought you meant in code
<pipecloud> apeiros: Or if you hail from YARD (ew), . is class method
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<mgberlin> apeiros: i didn't specify, you coudln't have known. thx.
<apeiros> hey, I like yard :)
<AlexRussia> pipecloud: )
<pipecloud> apeiros: :D
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<mrmcdonalds> ok it said i needed pearl, i got pearl, not when i try to do the pearl install it says its not a valid game file
<mrmcdonalds> in xml::parser
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<mrmcdonalds> pearl Makefile.PL "data does not appear to be a saved game file"
<nfk> dachi, with every subsequent year it will become less possible and unless they are deported by russian government it's will generate a lot of bad PR for you
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<apeiros> mrmcdonalds: I think perl changed its name from pearl more than a decade ago :-p
<mrmcdonalds> hahahah
<mrmcdonalds> hhahahahahahaha
<pipecloud> mrmcdonalds: What are you doing though?
<jhass> I kinda had to think of phps package manager (pear)
<pipecloud> I mean, yeah you have a dependency, but what are you doing that for?
<AlexRussia> ahhahahahhahhahahahhahahhahahahahhaha
<pipecloud> The crowd is easy to please today.
<apeiros> full moon?
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<pipecloud> zachrab: #rvm might help you.
<nfk> i think new moon
<pipecloud> Thanks to apeiros, I'm thinking about butts now.
<nfk> iirc the weather forecast correctly
<mrmcdonalds> expat.o error 1 leaving dir, subdirs error 2 , expat.h no file or dir
<zachrab> pipecloud: i tried installing xcode-select --install
<mrmcdonalds> during make
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<nfk> mrmcdonalds, then install expat-dev or something
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<nfk> maybe libexpact2-dev
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<nfk> just open a graphical package manager (not the software center) and enter expat and look for a *-dev package
<mrmcdonalds> dang neight of thost
<mrmcdonalds> ok
<mrmcdonalds> jeez all this for shoes
<mrmcdonalds> before i do this
<nfk> libexpact2-dev is what i'd expect but it might have another name
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<mrmcdonalds> are there any other good programs like shoes for doing ruby gui that will be eiaser than this
<pipecloud> zachrab: That that help?
<nfk> mrmcdonalds, do you have build-essentials installed?
<zachrab> pipecloud: no
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<mrmcdonalds> not sure nfk
<zachrab> pipecloud: still cant get this thing to work
<mrmcdonalds> i am pretty noob
<pipecloud> mrmcdonalds: What are you installing with make?
<mrmcdonalds> xml-parser
<pipecloud> What is the main goal?
<mrmcdonalds> perl
<nfk> mrmcdonalds, uhhh shoes is supposed to be cross platform
<pipecloud> Why do you need it?
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<mrmcdonalds> i want to make a ruby gui
<nfk> though i think all ruby gui bindigs are crap
<pipecloud> Are you just trying to get shoes working?
<mrmcdonalds> yes
<mrmcdonalds> it works
<pipecloud> nfk: GTK isn't bad though
<pipecloud> I mean the bindings.
<mrmcdonalds> i just cant get a couple things to work
<pipecloud> GTK is a mess.
<nfk> qt/kde expects you know their C++ code (and ruby as well)
<mrmcdonalds> i can make windows just cant get other examples to work on the site
<nfk> and the rest are pretty awful by definition
<mrmcdonalds> anyone else have shoes installed?
<pipecloud> nfk: Well, the function names, yeah
<mrmcdonalds> would be cool if someone could try the code to see if its my system or not
<mrmcdonalds> before i assume its an error
<pipecloud> Have you used the directions in the wiki?
<mrmcdonalds> thanks for link pipe
<mrmcdonalds> yes
<mrmcdonalds> i can not get the shapes to work
<mrmcdonalds> only buttons
<mrmcdonalds> buttons/text works fine
<pipecloud> mrmcdonalds: Are you using the old stable shoes or the new unfinished shoes?
<mrmcdonalds> eww
<mrmcdonalds> not sure
<pipecloud> Like real shoes, old ones are broken in and comfortable.
<nfk> and smelly
<pipecloud> It's undergoing a massive rewrite atm.
<zachrab> https://gist.github.com/anonymous/fc5a5c7bc2a7db01baf0 <-- anyone help me with this?
<pipecloud> nfk: Like your mother!
<mrmcdonalds> how can i tell version
<pipecloud> zachrab: Don't use sudo. RVM user installs should never use sudo.
<nfk> and aren't weatherproof
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<zachrab> pipecloud: thats the reason it cant build?
<pipecloud> zachrab: chown -r $USER:$USER ~/.rvm
<mrmcdonalds> ok im using version 2.1.5
<mrmcdonalds> is that stable?
<pipecloud> zachrab: It's something you should never do. Don't introduce weird things. :)
<pipecloud> It'll make sure we aren't going on a wild shevy chase.
<zachrab> pipecloud: it says
<zachrab> pipecloud: illegal option -- r
<pipecloud> zachrab: Use capital R
<pipecloud> mrmcdonalds: I think, maybe, 2.x is stable
<pipecloud> mrmcdonalds: Did oyu say you were on windows?
<mrmcdonalds> ubuntu
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<mrmcdonalds> 12.4
<zachrab> pipecloud: it says illegal group name
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<pipecloud> zachrab: Ugh, are you on a mac?
<zachrab> pipecloud: yes
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<mrmcdonalds> all i want to do is make gui :(
<mrmcdonalds> with ruby
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<pipecloud> zachrab: Then it's $USER:staff
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<pipecloud> mrmcdonalds: That's odd. Hm. This was super easy for me in both OSX, debian, and ubanto.
<zachrab> pipecloud: older version of artoo-arduino worked
<shevy> mrmcdonalds I can make GUIs with ruby-gnome just fine :)
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<shevy> mrmcdonalds here I wrote some ifconfig wrapper about 6 years ago or such, how awesome it is :P http://oi61.tinypic.com/atmzbp.jpg
<zachrab> pipecloud: ok done
<shevy> that is only the part about the display btw, the other parts have buttons and so forth
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<zachrab> pipecloud: what should i do now?
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<pipecloud> zachrab: without using sudo, attempt installing that gem again.
<pipecloud> Then gist the output if it fails.
<zachrab> pipecloud: so gem install artoo-arduino
<pipecloud> zachrab: Might as well toss --backtrace onto that
<zachrab> pipecloud:
<zachrab> k
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<zachrab> pipecloud: it worked!
<pipecloud> zachrab: Fancy that.
<zachrab> pipecloud: hallelujah!
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<pipecloud> zachrab: Tell me, "Spaceghost, I will _never_ use sudo with rvm again."
<zachrab> thank you!!!
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<pipecloud> zachrab: Also, say, "shevy is rubbish."
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<zachrab> Spaceghost, I will _never_ use sudo with rvm again.
<pipecloud> :D
<revMARKbrown> has anyone used RUBYMINE? IS IT WORTH IT?
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<apeiros> revMARKbrown: NO NOBODY EVER USED IT!
<apeiros> also, your shift key seems stuck
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<revMARKbrown> maybe just hype on internet to buy it
<pipecloud> revMARKbrown: IT ISN'T MY THING BUT SOME PEOPLE I KNOW LIKE IT
<nfk> alright, i give up
<pipecloud> I DON'T LIKE IDE'S
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<shevy> pipecloud I am impressed that you did not tell him to read the documentation ;)
<nfk> i'll just require user to specify both folders and handle them in pure ruby
<pipecloud> shevy: Only because I don't know if RVM documents not using sudo.
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<nfk> i can't take interoperating ruby with UNIX utilities
<apeiros> as far as IDEs for ruby go, rubymine is one of the better
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<apeiros> it's quite nice
<apeiros> but as pipecloud, I don't like IDEs, I prefer text editors.
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<RubyTitmouse> The first rule of software development... never buy anything, it is all crap
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<RubyTitmouse> If it was any good, there would be an open source copycat
<pipecloud> The second rule of software development: Never anything, it's all crap.
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<nfk> i hate them all
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<nfk> vim is derpily harsh to use
<nfk> geany is a bitch
<pipecloud> nfk: notepad.exe or gtfo
<nfk> kwrite/kate are POS and crap
<RubyTitmouse> if it is open source, it is guaranteed not to be any crappier than you can tolerate... or you'd have fixed it by now
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<nfk> notepad.exe is a fine binary editor if you're a sworn hobo but it sucks anyway
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<pipecloud> RubyTitmouse: If only openssl understood that.
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<pipecloud> The truly enlightened use CV to interpret lines drawn in sand on perfect beaches in perfect weather.
<nfk> qtcreator i could almost like if not for the limited uses outside C++
<pipecloud> nfk: People use QT creator's output with other langauges.
<nfk> and don't get me started on working on two documents at the same time
<pipecloud> There's qt bindings for ruby
<RubyTitmouse> vim is great for editing system files, because a random keypress has a lower likelyhood of causing anything to happen. emacs is better for creative work because of its flexible and network-aware system of frames, windows, and buffers
<pipecloud> The great EmacsOS
<pipecloud> GNU is not a bootloader.
<perldork> let the editor flaming begin lol
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<nfk> pipecloud, and i could write asm in a fullblown office suite but it's still gonna suck
<pipecloud> apeiros: A metabrogrammer, but yes.
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<RubyTitmouse> The OS and IDE aren't very good, luckily the editor is awesome. The tetris clone is also top rate.
<pipecloud> nfk: I don't think you could. You'd drink yourself to death.
<pipecloud> Alcohol poisoning would get you first.
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<nfk> pipecloud, why, write, format and output as txt and save it as odt so that you don't loose the formating
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<nfk> it's no worse than an ide that doesn't support the given language well
<pipecloud> nfk: What is "support the given language"? Just use notepad.exe or ed.
<nfk> you'd even get limited completion
<RubyTitmouse> nothing supports ASM well, so it isn't going to be much more painful
<pipecloud> I don't know man, I've seen some alright ASM support.
<nfk> pipecloud, have you ever considered that it's cool to have IDE suggesting function names, arguments or checking your syntax?
<RubyTitmouse> lol sure, and the local pie shop really has the world's best pies, too
<pipecloud> nfk: My editor does that.
<pipecloud> RubyTitmouse: And that local sports team is really doing well this time.
<nfk> pipecloud, for every language you'll ever need?
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<RubyTitmouse> Yeah, editors got those features in like... the mid 90s
<nfk> qtcreator is good for C++
<pipecloud> nfk: Yes. Lua and ruby.
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<pipecloud> And a smattering of other less useful languages like python
<nfk> and the varous Java ideas are really great for Java
<nfk> *IDEs
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