apeiros changed the topic of #ruby to: Ruby 2.1.1; 2.0.0-p451; 1.9.3-p545: http://ruby-lang.org || Paste >3 lines of text on http://gist.github.com || this channel is logged at http://irclog.whitequark.org, other public logging is prohibited
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<crucify_me> If you have a frozen object 'string' and do these two operations: string += 'plus a fresh attachment' and string << 'plus a fresh attachment', += will alter the object but << will not. why is that?
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<crucify_me> sorry if this is a repeat of yesterday's debacle
<shevy> crucify_me no, += is a new object, not "will alter the object"
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<crucify_me> yes shevy thanks I have been using object_id to see what's what, but the only why to access the original object is to reassign like string_2 = string. So there you can see the original object id . But what string points to is something new, which means *that* was altered. or else I'm missing something very basic.
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<shevy> I am not sure whether your sentence was finished.
<shevy> .freeze is fairly useless from what I can see
<crucify_me> http://pastie.org/9132297 but I'm missing something basic about reassignment
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<shevy> once the object is frozen, if you reassign string_2 = string, you end up with the same object
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<shevy> crucify_me sure, you created a new object after all
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<shevy> it would be much more surprising if your variable strung would point to the new object, without assignment :)
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<crucify_me> but the original object was altered while frozen , to create a new object. it is how it is described that seems odd shevy
<shevy> I do not understand your sentences
<shevy> you write:
<shevy> "the original object was altered while frozen"
<shevy> how do you come to this conclusion?
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<crucify_me> hold on shevy why do I not see this?
<shevy> see what
<shevy> I am asking a simple question :(
<shevy> "the original object was altered while frozen" <-- Can you show me the line of your code that backs your statement please?
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<crucify_me> string returns a new object id on line 8
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<crucify_me> but on line 2 string was rendered an object that cannot be mutated.
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<crucify_me> so its the assignment that is confusing me.
<shevy> Again, you wrote that the original object was altered while frozen
<shevy> I asked you which line does that
<shevy> line 8 hardly did that
<shevy> Anyway, your statement is simply incorrect
<shevy> line 5 created a completely new object
<crucify_me> well line 5 is beginning with string = string + 'attachment'
<shevy> yes
<shevy> just because you name it string does not mean it is string
<shevy> x = string + 'attachment'
<shevy> ^^^ is that less confusing?
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<crucify_me> yeah actually
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<shevy> it assigns the result of the right side to the left side; in your case you were simply using a shortcut
<shevy> x += 'foo'
<shevy> x = x + 'foo'
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<shevy> whereas << will try to append into the same object
<shevy> but since it is frozen, it can not modify it
<crucify_me> ok somewhere though can you access the original 'Original string - ' object without reassigning to strung ?
<shevy> >> x = 'foo'.freeze; y = x; y << 'yo'
<eval-in> shevy => can't modify frozen String (RuntimeError) ... (https://eval.in/145179)
<shevy> >> x = 'foo'.freeze; x << 'yo'
<eval-in> shevy => can't modify frozen String (RuntimeError) ... (https://eval.in/145180)
<shevy> >> x = 'foo'.freeze; x += ''; x << 'yo'
<eval-in> shevy => "fooyo" (https://eval.in/145181)
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<shevy> crucify_me it is your code ;)
<shevy> here you did the assignment:
<shevy> puts strung = string
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<shevy> I don't like assignment on puts-lines btw
<shevy> let's keep puts simple
<shevy> puts result <-- that's a good puts!
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<crucify_me> yeah I added that to the example for any possible clue.
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<shevy> well that kept a pointer to your original object
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<crucify_me> so the original pointer, string, is now pointing to another object, and disassociated with 'Original string - ' altogether.
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<shevy> well it still refers to the old object
<shevy> but you no longer can easily reference to it, because you overwrite string variable
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<shevy> I think you can somehow obtain it still through ObjectSpace
<shevy> possibly through it's id - well actually... I guess that id will be unique anyway, so the variable name should not be of any importance
<crucify_me> that is interesting. so is it like somewhere is object_id 1 + object_id 2 ?
<shevy> string =ObjectSpace._id2ref(OLD_ID_HERE)
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<shevy> should restore it I suppose
<shevy> no
<shevy> who is telling you these things crucify_me
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<crucify_me> no one I am inquisitive and would like to see why the assignment principles are so counter-intuitive
<shevy> crucify_me I think your brain still does not quite want to accept the += line
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<shevy> why is it not intuitive
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<crucify_me> well it's simple : string points to an object that is 'frozen'. then an operation does something to that object that clearly changes it, and then suddenly string is pointing to a different object with a different signature.
<shevy> whenever you create a new object, if it does not have a static ID, it must obtain a new id
<shevy> no that is simply a lie
<shevy> and you keep on repeating it
<crucify_me> lie like a rug
<shevy> you don't change the object
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<shevy> you actually create a new object
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<shevy> >> x = '1' + '2'; x.object_id
<eval-in> shevy => 547877400 (https://eval.in/145182)
<shevy> >> x = '1' + '2'; x.object_id
<eval-in> shevy => 541331910 (https://eval.in/145183)
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<crucify_me> so buried somewhere in 'Original string - plus a fresh attachment' the original object is still to be found using above mentioned method
<shevy> I think the confusion started because you named the new variable string, so you assumed it was still the same object
<shevy> sure, pass the old ID to: ObjectSpace._id2ref(OLD_ID_HERE)
<crucify_me> *please* rewrite it with x or similar to get rid of me.
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<shevy> but you overwrite x
<shevy> simply add ObjectSpace._id2ref(strung.object_id) in your code
<crucify_me> ok thanks very much. I made headway . . .
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<crucify_me> shevy: what's this with x += '' ? x = 'foo'.freeze; x += ''; x << 'yo'
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<shevy> I am sure that is not the full code
<shevy> because when I do this:
<shevy> x += ''
<shevy> it does not work
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<shevy> crucify_me you do know that you create a new object?
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<shevy> '' is an object
<shevy> >> ''.object_id
<eval-in> shevy => 541569670 (https://eval.in/145184)
<shevy> >> ''.object_id
<eval-in> shevy => 543969980 (https://eval.in/145185)
<shevy> see, it always has a different object id
<shevy> crucify_me you need to mistrust your brain, it currently leads you the wrong direction :)
<crucify_me> you wrote this earlier : x = 'foo'.freeze; x += ''; x << 'yo' ..so that bit will let x << 'yo' be appended to x
<shevy> sure
<shevy> but x is not x
<shevy> when will you accept that
<crucify_me> yeah
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<crucify_me> It's not about accepting shevy
<shevy> you explained it twice before
<shevy> twice you described it incorrectly
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<crucify_me> well that other example is sinking in, but x = 'foo'.freeze; x += ''; x << 'yo' I don't understand
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<benzrf> holy shit
<shevy> but that is the same as the other example
<benzrf> i went to #javascript for help
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<benzrf> tried to explain fibers to somebody
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<benzrf> they thought i was wrong, told me so
<benzrf> i told them i'd used them
<benzrf> they informed me that they knew i was full of shit cuz invalid reasons
<shevy> man
<benzrf> then i got kinda pissed at them
<shevy> I'd wish I would have been there
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<benzrf> and they ignored me
<shevy> hahaha
<benzrf> */ignored me
<benzrf> at least i think they did
<shevy> HAHAHA
<benzrf> somebody minaswan me ;-;
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<shevy> benzrf perhaps they were right
<benzrf> n-no
<benzrf> they claimed that green threads and fibers are basically the same thing
<benzrf> and i told them that they bear little similarity
<shevy> have you been banned from ##javascript?
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<benzrf> and they told me i was wrong
<benzrf> shevy: no
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<benzrf> right now i am a little riled up
<benzrf> good lord thats a bad community
<shevy> oh well
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<shevy> they won, you gave up :(
<shevy> benzrf, no worries, javascript will grow
<benzrf> BIADASWAD
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<crucify_me> oh x += '' just creates a string and appends it to 'foo', an empty string into which can be appended ?
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<crucify_me> into which yo can be appended *
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<shevy> benzrf can you explain to crucify_me how += works?
<benzrf> crucify_me: foo += bar => foo = foo + bar
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<crucify_me> chrissakes
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<crucify_me> benzrf: this is an example where foo is initially frozen.
<shevy> benzrf ok make the complex more complex please
<crucify_me> or so I thought
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<shevy> benzrf bar must be '' and foo must be frozen
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<crucify_me> shevy: but is it true the x+= '' is a kind of concatenation like => 'foo' + '' << 'bar'
<shevy> somewhat
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<crucify_me> hmm ok thanks
<shevy> << is faster
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<wallerdev> << can be dangerous too
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<RubyPanther> Worse, they might do totally different things.
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<crucify_me> x = 'foo'.freeze; x += ''; x << 'yo' this is not easy for me. I don't precisely see what is frozen and what is modified.
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<shevy> can someone explain it to crucify_me please
<RubyPanther> crucify_me: the string you created first was frozen, but then thrown away after creating a new string with '' appended
<wallerdev> clearly
<wallerdev> lol
<RubyPanther> str1 + str2 is a new string
<wallerdev> strings really should just be immutable
<crucify_me> ok, what sort of use of this would be common?
<RubyPanther> Just use Java instead if you want that sort of thing, and you're there
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<RubyPanther> the whole idea of making something immutable by force is anti-Ruby
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<shevy> crucify_me what do you mean, what sort of use? I don't know why you want to .freeze - why do you want to freeze?
<RubyPanther> Instead, you just replace methods like + on your NotEasilyMutatedString class
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<alpha123> I like Ruby's mutability a lot. I've tried both highly mutable languages and highly immutable ones, and I think mutable is more fun. :)
<wallerdev> idk i just think of strings as such a basic data type, like if i send a string to a method i dont expect it to get changed, and i feel like that happens on accident sometimes because of mutable strings
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<wallerdev> just personal preference though
<alpha123> Why aren't numbers in Ruby mutable? :P
<benzrf> alpha123: jesus christ how horrifying
<alpha123> hehe
<RubyPanther> Ruby is more interesting than any of our opinions.
<shevy> alpha123 because ruby would be slower
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<crucify_me> RubyPanther: !!
<RubyPanther> alpha123: Because they're C ints
<alpha123> shevy: As if that were ever a concern.
<alpha123> :P
<shevy> alpha123 yep it was a design decision to make them not mutable
<RubyPanther> And "numbers" might be mutable, but Fixnums aren't
<alpha123> I figured the reason strings are mutable is because it makes sense to change them, i.e. they're a list of characters
<RubyPanther> Anything that inherits from Numeric should be considered a number
<alpha123> What would mutating a number even look like?
<crucify_me> shevy: it began when I was reading about deep_clone.
<wallerdev> x = 5; x.subtract(2)
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<alpha123> Eh, fair enough
<alpha123> What I do actually wish was that code was mutable in Ruby.
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<alpha123> And scope. I wish scope was mutable.
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<shevy> RubyPanther what numbers are mutable?
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<alpha123> (Well it sort of is, but... more mutable)
<RubyPanther> You can monkey all that
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<shevy> alpha123, this would be possible:
<RubyPanther> shevy: I didn't say they are, I said they could be.
<shevy> >> x = 5.5; def x.hi; puts "hi"; end
<eval-in> shevy => can't define singleton (TypeError) ... (https://eval.in/145200)
<crucify_me> I always initiate scintillating conversation
<alpha123> shevy: That could be kind of interesting, I suppose.
<shevy> dunno
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<shevy> ruby is 80% perfect
<alpha123> ^ agreed
<shevy> there is room for +20% here!
<alpha123> I think the next 20% could come from something like Io.
<RubyPanther> For non-fixnums that you create through a class initializer, if they are mutable or not is just an implementation detail
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<shevy> Io made awful decisions
<RubyPanther> and non-Float
<shevy> :=
<shevy> it's syntax is also less flexible than ruby's syntax
<alpha123> shevy: For sure. However, most of the core concepts are excellent.
<shevy> yeah
<shevy> I am sad that python won :(
<alpha123> Being able to rewrite methods at runtime? Heck yes I'll take that!
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<RubyPanther> "won?"
<shevy> yeah RubyPanther
<wallerdev> just alias and replace haha
<shevy> there is an army of python devs out there
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<alpha123> Python is more popular than Ruby, I think.
<RubyPanther> You do know it is open source, right?
<alpha123> Ruby is clearly the better language IMO though
<wallerdev> python is a dead language
<alpha123> Python died with Python3
<shevy> they'll overcome the transition eventually
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<RubyPanther> They are both finished, neither could "win" there is no "competition" between them. They are just tools you can choose.
<wallerdev> python 3 came out and no one used it or wanted to upgrade to it because thigns were working
<benzrf> python is really not dead
<wallerdev> its gonna become the next enterprise language
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<RubyPanther> Compare to Perl 6 lol
<wallerdev> python 2 still in 20 years
<shevy> Perl 6 was always a dream
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<shevy> they lack the power to evolve perl :(
<benzrf> Io is interesting but ultimately a little TOO malleable
<benzrf> imho
<benzrf> smalltalk tho
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<shevy> god
<shevy> smalltalk had a chance 30 years ago
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<RubyPanther> Ruby is way better than Smalltalk, we got the only good parts
<shevy> we lack a squeak VM
<benzrf> haha if u say so
<alpha123> benzrf: Perhaps. I think the main flaw is its weird standard libraries and default syntax, but that's easy enough to fix.
<shevy> easy enough to fix hmm
<alpha123> Ruby effectively obsoleted SmallTalk IMO. Though Ruby pretty much *is* a SmallTalk.
<benzrf> imo smalltalk's real strength is its runtime/dev model
<alpha123> shevy: Libraries can always be replaced/abstracted over.
<benzrf> otoh that's also part of what killed it i think
<shevy> alpha123 in my opinion, it seemed as if steve lost some motivation evolving Io a couple of years ago
<benzrf> given that it's its own little ecosystem
<alpha123> shevy: I agree
<benzrf> seriously tho
<alpha123> shevy: I hope somebody interesting picks it up again
<shevy> that's where you have to keep matz credit, he is always motivated
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<shevy> I mean, give
<shevy> not keep lol
<RubyPanther> RiteVM is pretty awesome
<alpha123> matz is a genius language designer, I'll gladly give him tons of credit any day :P
<shevy> yeah
<benzrf> if there were something like ST but with ruby's syntax
<shevy> matz is the coolest thing that ruby has
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<benzrf> i would probably faint with delight
<shevy> god benzrf
<wallerdev> actually i think im the coolest thing ruby has going for it
<alpha123> benzrf: Yeah, it would be called "Ruby"
<shevy> ST is gone
<shevy> alpha123 but what about squeak
<benzrf> alpha123: absurd
<benzrf> i do not think you understand what i mean
<alpha123> Ruby is probably my favorite language (though Lua, Common Lisp, and Io fight for it sometimes), and matz's decision making is half of that
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<wallerdev> javascript is becoming one of my favorite languages
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<alpha123> JavaScript is certainly the language I use the most (and love, a lot) but Lua is pretty much JS done amazingly well.
<benzrf> wallerdev: you disgust me
<shevy> the image is a bit too convoluted but the idea is awesome
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<wallerdev> javascript is pretty great benzrf
<benzrf> images are awesome
<wallerdev> very flexible language
<shevy> AND on top of that, imagine erlang-style fault tolerant coding!
<benzrf> the living environment is awesme
<alpha123> JavaScript *is* great
<benzrf> it's all awesome
<shevy> where you could distribute live objects to people
<benzrf> javascript is awful
<crucify_me> x << 'yo' the line x += '' concatenates (so to speak) an empty string onto 'foo', into which the operator << appends 'yo' ?
<benzrf> and you should all feel ashamed
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<shevy> no more stupid "gem install" commandline only way
<alpha123> JavaScript is like Scheme with a usable syntax.
<benzrf> alpha123: you did NOT just say that
<shevy> crucify_me you say operator but << is a method invocation man
<benzrf> crucify_me: do you understand the difference between mutation and assignment
<wallerdev> javascript like scheme lol
<alpha123> benzrf: *shrug* I've coded a lot of JavaScript and a lot of Common Lisp, so it's not like I'm not familiar with Lisp syntax.
<benzrf> shevy: donload pharo
<benzrf> take it for a spin
<benzrf> :-D
<shevy> crucify_me, look at this:
<shevy> >> class Foo; def <<(i); puts i; end; end; x = Foo.new; x << 'yo'; yo
<eval-in> shevy => yo ... (https://eval.in/145212)
<shevy> ^^
<crucify_me> In this code: x = 'foo'.freeze ; x += '' ;
<crucify_me> x << 'yo' the line x += '' concatenates (so to speak) an empty string onto 'foo', into which the operator << appends 'yo' ?
<crucify_me> sorry I didn't paste it all ^^
<shevy> crucify_me will. you. read. what. I. wrote. please?
<alpha123> shevy: That does sound pretty cool, but so... different.
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<benzrf> crucify_me: do you understand the difference between mutation and assignment
<benzrf> alpha123: have you ever /tried/ smalltalk
<shevy> alpha123 well just think of reallife bacterias, viruses, and their dynamic genomes
<alpha123> benzrf: I have not.
<benzrf> alpha123: do you understand how it is different from ruby
<benzrf> besides syntax
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<alpha123> shevy: Objects always being alive/running/in the image is definitely an interesting concept
<shevy> syntax
<shevy> this is the problem of smalltalk
<benzrf> alpha123: it's more than that
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<benzrf> alpha123: the only real way to write smalltalk is to interact with the image
<benzrf> to be precise
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<shevy> benzrf why did smalltalk not succeed with .cgi ?
<benzrf> smalltalk consists of a vm and an image
<alpha123> benzrf: *shrug* they pretty much have the same basic object model, but SmallTalk is always running (which is interesting)
<benzrf> the image contains a running program
<benzrf> *running smalltalk program
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<benzrf> said program is an IDE written in smalltalk
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<shevy> :)
<benzrf> this IDE takes the code you write and runs it within itself
<alpha123> SmallTalk seems like a cross between Erlang and Common Lisp when it comes to that (CL has the "image" concept as well)
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<benzrf> when you write smalltalk, you are writing the code within the program that the code goes into
<benzrf> there are no code files
<benzrf> only an image
<alpha123> benzrf: Let me ask you something: have you ever made a piece of production software with SmallTalk? (I'm legimately curious.)
<benzrf> no :P
<benzrf> in fact ive barely touched it
<alpha123> benzrf: But then I can't use vim :(
<benzrf> precisely ;-;
<benzrf> same issue here
<benzrf> and thats why it died, i bet
<shevy> lol
<alpha123> hehe
<benzrf> no real unix integration
<benzrf> it's a walled garden :(
<alpha123> No real integration with anything besides itself, it seems
<benzrf> precisely
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<benzrf> alpha123: really though
<shevy> I think it tried to become more than it what it achieved effectively
<benzrf> imagine if you could write ruby with the kind of support you can get in java
<alpha123> benzrf: I can, mostly.
<benzrf> and that's what st is like
<benzrf> i do not believe you
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<alpha123> vim + eclim + youcompleteme is pretty good
<wallerdev> ruby + java = python
<benzrf> wweh
<alpha123> wallerdev: Heh, exactly
<shevy> omg
<benzrf> wallerdev: more liek ruby + javasctipt
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<benzrf> *javascript
<wallerdev> lol
<shevy> wait
<wallerdev> java = javascript
<shevy> java might have the better OOP model than python
<wallerdev> same thing
<benzrf> python's semantics are actually quite similar to python
<alpha123> Python is a bit like dynamically typed Java :/
<benzrf> alpha123: not really
<benzrf> not at all
<shevy> alpha123 do you also have to have explicit self in java?
<alpha123> benzrf: Well obviously it differs greatly, but the way it's written often seems like Java
<benzrf> hmm
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<alpha123> i.e. lots of classes, inheritance, etc
<shevy> ruby!
<shevy> you just described ruby there
<alpha123> heavy-OO approach, not much metaprogramming
<benzrf> alpha123: can you get method listings on objects while writing ruby
<alpha123> benzrf: Yes, actually.
<benzrf> u wut
<benzrf> thats impossible
<benzrf> its way too dynamic
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<alpha123> Obviously it's not as good as SmallTalk would be, but it's not bad
<shevy> benzrf there even was a ruby shell that had a drop down box written in curses when you did foo.<TAB>
<alpha123> Have you heard of TernJS?
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<benzrf> no
<benzrf> and i dont want to
<benzrf> js scares me
<benzrf> or rather
<alpha123> Tern proves it's quite possible to do that in dynamic, non-SmallTalk languages
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<benzrf> the fact that people voluntarily use it scares me
<shevy> benzrf do you really want the ##javascript guys to be smarter than you
<alpha123> eclim does something a bit like it, except using Eclipse
<shevy> what do you mean
<shevy> voluntarily
<shevy> the shit is a monopoly!
<mordof> benzrf: lol - i take it you dislike js?
<alpha123> ##javascript is scary :|
<shevy> and soon chrome is a monopoly too
<shevy> AND THEN
<shevy> dart will come
<shevy> muahahahaha!
<alpha123> Dart is... evil, and odd.
<benzrf> js is grose
<alpha123> benzrf: Seriously, JS is a *lot* like Scheme except weirder
<benzrf> js is fucking grose
<mordof> lol
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<benzrf> it's like java and scheme had a baby
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<alpha123> You might like Lua, it's pretty much JS's saner cousin (they're very close but Lua is more level headed)
<alpha123> More like C and Scheme
<benzrf> except it came out as interspecies babies really would
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<alpha123> ...which is possibly scarier
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<alpha123> What's so awful about JS, anyway?
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<benzrf> everything
<benzrf> everything about it is awful
<alpha123> prototype-OO is great, and its Scheminess is cool
<benzrf> using it leaves me feeling gross
<mordof> alpha123: indeed
<alpha123> Tried CoffeeSCript?
<benzrf> yes
<benzrf> it makes me feel less gross
<benzrf> but still kinda ick
<alpha123> :)
<shevy> lol
<mordof> my main language is js.
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<benzrf> mordof: grosssssssssss
<alpha123> mordof: Same here
* mordof will always enjoy it
<shevy> you make me sad mordof
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<mordof> lol
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* mordof doesn't care about language bias
<alpha123> mordof: I think we build up tolerance and get desensitized to it eventually, but I legitimately really like JS
<benzrf> js has some good ideas in it
<alpha123> (I like Ruby and Lua more, though)
<benzrf> but they are all extant and better-done in many other languages
<mordof> i can see why ruby developers don't like js... in comparison the syntax and thought behind it is yucky
<benzrf> and poorly done in js
<mordof> but the language itself is still pretty good
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<alpha123> mordof: See, I came from JavaScript to Ruby, then found CoffeeScript and became happy. =P
<benzrf> mordof: i need you to look up someting called
<benzrf> 'stockholm syndrome'
<mordof> rofl
<alpha123> I still use JavaScript 90% of the time though
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<shevy> man
<mordof> alpha123: yeah - i'm interested in seeing how coffeescript changes things
<shevy> you all make me sad
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<benzrf> lrn2haskell
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<shevy> god haskell
<benzrf> anything js can do, ruby can do better
<shevy> 100mb downloads
<benzrf> i rest my case
<benzrf> anyway sexprs allow you to have macros
<benzrf> and macros are fucking sweet
<alpha123> benzrf: It's not Stockholm Syndrome, my c̶a̶p̶t̶o̶r̶ JavaScript really is nice!
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<alpha123> Haskell is bad and you should feel bad.
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<mordof> xD SO much language bias going on right now
<alpha123> sexps are cool, but unreadable and macros are overrated.
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<alpha123> :D
<havenwood> ruby \o/
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<havenwood> js /o\
<mordof> lol
<wallerdev> javascript does everything ruby does and more
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<mordof> wallerdev: nah - that's actually not accurate, heh
<benzrf> alpha123: haskell is bad?
<alpha123> wallerdev: Except have a nice syntax
<benzrf> HASKELL IS BAD?
<benzrf> WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH YOU, YOU DISGUSTING SAVAGE
<wallerdev> js syntax is pretty good haha
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<alpha123> lol hehe
<havenwood> wallerdev: >.>
<benzrf> wallerdev: absolutely disgusting
<wallerdev> lisp is ugly syntax
<benzrf> javascript has the worst syntax of any language i have ever used
<alpha123> wallerdev: I have no idea what's wrong with you, but... that's not a popular opinion....
<benzrf> fite me irl
<wallerdev> and you could even argue objective c has ugly syntax
<wallerdev> but JS is pretty standard stuff
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<alpha123> benzrf: I'm just not a fan of purely functional languages and I think that Haskell made far too many academic choices to be useful
<alpha123> also type systems are vaguely evil
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<havenwood> i still get confused over whether javascript is just some sort of developer flashmob trolling
<alpha123> even inferred ones with polymorphic... stuff
<alpha123> havenwood: Yes.
<benzrf> alpha123: you have not used haskell enough
<benzrf> you are just reaacting to its differentness
<alpha123> benzrf: You're probably right.
<benzrf> once you understand it, it's beautiful
<benzrf> BEAUTIFUL I TELL YOU
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* benzrf shakes alpha123
<benzrf> here, write THIS in your precious js!!!
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<alpha123> benzrf: To be fair, I'm a web designer, not a mathmatician.
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<benzrf> joinPerLine s1 s2 = unlines $ zipWith (++) (lines s1) (lines s2)
<alpha123> Haskell has nice syntax at any rate.
<benzrf> how many lines of js would that be eh
<mordof> benzrf: if you explained what that did to me i could convert it xD
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<alpha123> benzrf: Probably fewer than Prelude :P
<alpha123> benzrf: You're using so many library functions there, so....
<shevy> haskell is unfortunately only for the elites
<shevy> javascript is for the masses
<benzrf> mordof: it takes 2 strings and joins them per line
<benzrf> mordof: 1 sec
<wallerdev> honestly its probably a one liner in JS too with some utility libraries haha
<benzrf> i only used builtins tho
<benzrf> and library is an important part!
<wallerdev> javascript doesnt come with as many tools out of the box for sure
<benzrf> *stdlib
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<alpha123> function joinPerLine(s1, s2) { return s1.split("\n").zip(s2.split("\n")).join("\n"); }
<wallerdev> but ecmascript 6 is helping with that
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<wallerdev> and JS is great for writing async code
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<alpha123> JS is *terrible* for writing async code....
<alpha123> Absolutely awful. I hate my callback hell.
<mordof> deferreds ftw
<alpha123> IcedCoffeeScript is pretty cool though
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<benzrf> alpha123: that's zip
<wallerdev> you can avoid callback hell with named functions
<benzrf> alpha123: not zipWith
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<mordof> wallerdev: not really
<wallerdev> and things like promises are built into like angular and node
<havenwood> Celluloid::IO ftw.
<wallerdev> you dont have to nest everything in anonymous functions one after another haha
<benzrf> js plebs r jelly of are fibers
<alpha123> benzrf: You're right, I misunderstood the Haskell :(
<benzrf> (actually they arent, theyve convinced themselves that their way is the best possible one and that fibers suck)
<shevy> benzrf, you can not lose arguments like that in the future
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<shevy> they will just use that to state how wrong you were and how superior javascript is
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<havenwood> wallerdev: Promise = Thread # There, now you have Promises in Ruby. >.>
<shevy> lol havenwood
<benzrf> hehehe
<benzrf> fibur
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<havenwood> benzrf: ooh, i haven't looked at that
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<alpha123> function joinPerLine(s1, s2) { return s1.split("\n").reduce(function (a, b, i) { a[i] = b + a[i]; return a }, s2.split("\n")).join("\n") }
<havenwood> benzrf: lawl
<havenwood> benzrf: Fibur = Thread ...
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<alpha123> ...fine, Haskell wins this round....
<benzrf> alpha123: :-)
<benzrf> u jelly of my curry
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<wallerdev> let me know when one of your scrub languages runs in IE6
<benzrf> & my static typing
<wallerdev> lol
<havenwood> wallerdev: let me know when your IE6 is dead and buried
<alpha123> actually I'm jealous of you having a lightweight function syntax....
<benzrf> bitch ur shitty ass language cant even tell 3 + "foo" is an error without running it lol
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* havenwood goes into hiding
<mordof> benzrf: in js, 3 + "foo" isn't an error xD
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<benzrf> also let me know when you can do "f <$> a1 <*> a2 <*> a3" lel
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<mordof> it may as well be though with the way stuff behaves sometimes
<alpha123> In CoffeeScript that would be joinPerLine = (s1, s2) -> s1.split('\n').reduce((a, b, i) -> (a[i] = b + a[i], a), s2.split '\n').join '\n'
<benzrf> alpha123: lol grose
<havenwood> alpha123: coffeescript is pretty expressive it seems
<alpha123> havenwood: lol
<benzrf> joinPerLine s1 s2 = unlines $ zipWith (++) (lines s1) (lines s2)
<benzrf> still more expressive B)
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<mordof> benzrf: the only thing i have to say to all of your arguments is... "gross"
<alpha123> benzrf: Sure, that does win hands down.
<benzrf> js losers dont even have functors
<benzrf> top lel
<wallerdev> i dont even know what the haskell does
<wallerdev> :(
<alpha123> benzrf: Now tell me how many lines it takes to do this in Haskell. `var a = 1; a = 2`
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<benzrf> wallerdev: http://bpaste.net/show/252734
<alpha123> :D
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<benzrf> alpha123:
<benzrf> do
<benzrf> let a = 1
<benzrf> let a = 2
<benzrf> u got served
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<wallerdev> oh is ++ how you add two strings in haskell
<benzrf> its how u add 2 lists
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<alpha123> wallerdev: It's the array concat operator
<benzrf> typing u see
<wallerdev> i see
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<wallerdev> just changing the symbols around from every other language and using them for their own purpose
<wallerdev> lol
<benzrf> var a = 1; a = 2
<alpha123> wallerdev: er... it's much more than that, that Haskell code really is doing really expressive things
<benzrf> do {let a = 1; let a = 2}
<benzrf> bout the same :-)
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<benzrf> face it haskell is gr8 & js is butt
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<alpha123> benzrf: fair enough. How about something more actually useful, like `var hero = {hp: 10, x: 50, y: 25}; onBulletContact(function () { hero.hp -= 10 })`
<alpha123> (let's assume you have a function onBulletContact that takes a function as an argument)
<alpha123> Haskell is *great* it's just impossible to *use* for anything but one-liners.
<benzrf> data Character = Character {hp :: Int, x :: Int, y :: Int}
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<benzrf> alpha123: ur wrong
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<benzrf> may i introduce u to my friends FRP & lenses
<alpha123> Oh no.
<alpha123> I think my brain exploded last time I read about lenses.....
<benzrf> m8 lenses arent hard
<benzrf> a lens is a target for mappin
<benzrf> i.e.
<benzrf> wait 1 sec i forget the arg order >.>
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<wallerdev> lol
<alpha123> lenses are just partially applied monadic functors, right? :P
<alpha123> (jk)
<benzrf> huh?
<benzrf> whats even a monadic functor
<alpha123> benzrf: "lenses aren't hard"
<alpha123> I was waiting for the inevitable unintelligible explanation :P
<benzrf> no its simpel
<alpha123> probably involving a lot of category theory and unicorn magic
<benzrf> m8 i dont know from category theory
<wallerdev> you guys should learn J
<benzrf> but unicorn magic is sweet
<wallerdev> definitely the most expressive language i know
<alpha123> wallerdev: J is just... weird but cool
<benzrf> ok a lens is basically a value that represents part of a data structure
<wallerdev> according to wikipedia: quicksort=: (($:@(<#[), (=#[), $:@(>#[)) ({~ ?@#)) ^: (1<#)
<benzrf> i.e. a field of it
<benzrf> or something
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<benzrf> alpha123: for example, _1 is a lens representing the first element of a 2-tuple
<alpha123> wallerdev: Even better, that runs in both J and Perl!
<alpha123> =P
<wallerdev> hahha
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<alpha123> benzrf: Sure, that makes sense. How does the assignment part work?
<benzrf> well
<benzrf> oh wait _1 is polymorphic
<alpha123> I did read about lenses but got lost... somewhere
<benzrf> over most kinds of tu0les
<benzrf> *tuples
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<benzrf> the 2 main ops on lenses are view and over
<wallerdev> anyway im going home
<wallerdev> later
<benzrf> view <lens> <thingy>
<alpha123> bye wallerdev
<benzrf> will pull out a value
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<alpha123> benzrf: OK. I'm still following.
<benzrf> over <lens> <func> <thingy> maps the func over the part of thingy that the lens focuses on
<benzrf> and if you use 'const value' as the func...
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<alpha123> so e.g. view _1 ('a' 'b' 'c') is 'a'?
<benzrf> yes
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<benzrf> ('a', 'b', 'c') thol
<benzrf> *tho
<alpha123> er, right, sorry, I forgot the syntax :(
<benzrf> over _1 (+1) (1, 2) => (2, 2)
<alpha123> OK. So it's pretty much just a selective map?
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<benzrf> more or less
<benzrf> the fun part is when you compose lenses
<benzrf> let's say we have
<benzrf> data Mob = {health :: Int, pos :: (Double, Double)}
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<benzrf> then given a lens _pos
<benzrf> how about
<alpha123> And over pretty much does the equivalent of `var b = copy(a); b[x] = fn(b[x]); return b`?
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<benzrf> over (_mob . _1) (+10) someMob
<alpha123> (except it does it totally differently of course)
<benzrf> alpha123: ish
<benzrf> :p
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<alpha123> OK, what does it mean to compose a lens? How would that even work? It's like composing array indexes or hash keys in my understanding so far
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<benzrf> alpha123: the fun REALLY starts when you add prisms & traversals & isos
<benzrf> :-D
<benzrf> alpha123: pretty much
<benzrf> 09:53 < benzrf> data Mob = {health :: Int, pos :: (Double, Double)}
<benzrf> 09:54 < benzrf> over (_mob . _1) (+10) someMob
<benzrf> oh wait
<benzrf> over (_pos . _1) (+10) someMob
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<benzrf> ^move 10 to the right!
<alpha123> benzrf: Ah that makes more sense
<mordof> my brain hurts
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<mordof> too much haskell, lol
<benzrf> alpha123: a prism is not quite like a lens
<benzrf> rather then focusing on a part, a prism is more like an unwrapper
<benzrf> a prism either matches, or doesn'y
<benzrf> *doesn't
<alpha123> This is simple enough even for me so far. :P It's just emulating common OO stuff in a bizarrely confining language. =P
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<benzrf> and it is revertible
<benzrf> it really isn't
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<benzrf> it just looks like it at first
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<benzrf> ;_
<benzrf> * ;)
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<benzrf> one example of a prism is _Left
<alpha123> I find Haskell pretty neat looking but 1) too mathematical and 2) too confining for me (I like Ruby, Lua, and Io, remember? :P )
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<benzrf> confining? rly?
<benzrf> pfft
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<alpha123> I'm sure it's *not* actually confining, but it *feels* that way
<benzrf> i am a big fan of Io too
<benzrf> you just need to acclimate
<benzrf> it feels confining because you're doing things wrong
<benzrf> if you try to FP in lua, it will feel confining
<alpha123> Actually FP in Lua feels nice enough.
<benzrf> w/e :P
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<benzrf> alpha123: prisms tho
<benzrf> alpha123: are you familiar with Either
<alpha123> benzrf: Are prisms a bit like pattern matching on objects?
<alpha123> (that's sort of how I'm taking it)
<benzrf> sort of.
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<benzrf> alpha123: Either
<benzrf> do u know it
<alpha123> Either?
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<benzrf> data Either a b = Left a | Right b
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<alpha123> Is that like Maybe except with with two possible values?
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<alpha123> ah, okay
<benzrf> yea
<benzrf> commonly used for errors
<alpha123> Makes sense.
<benzrf> the Either monad used with do-notation is like exceptions
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<alpha123> Ugh, all this is making me want to like Haskell again. :P
<benzrf> kk
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<benzrf> _Left is an example of a prism
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<benzrf> 1. it may or may not matchaw_
<benzrf> *match
<benzrf> 2. it is revertible
<benzrf> so _1 cannot be a prism, because you cannot revert it
<alpha123> hm
<benzrf> viewing with _1 loses info
<benzrf> viewing with a prism /does not/
<alpha123> o_O
<benzrf> i.e.
<benzrf> view _left (Left 3)
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<benzrf> => Just 3
<benzrf> view _Left (Right 3)
<benzrf> => Nothing
<benzrf> in the former example, i've lost no datafirm
<benzrf> *data
<alpha123> OK, that does make sense, but how's it revertable?
<benzrf> if i know i viewed with _Left, i can put it back how it was
<alpha123> Oh yeah... cool
<benzrf> if i know i viewed with _1, i cannot
<benzrf> who knows what _2 was?
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<alpha123> benzrf, you are quite talented at explaining this, thank you.
<benzrf> :-)
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<benzrf> oh wait p:
<benzrf> not view
<benzrf> view is for lenses
<benzrf> you use /preview/ with prisms
<benzrf> view works on prisms but it gives worrying results
<benzrf> anyway
<benzrf> you can use review to go back
<alpha123> I still don't really like Haskell (I find it so... unnecessarily hard... to structure my data to move around properly since everything is immutable), but it is *cool*.
<benzrf> ;)
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<benzrf> now
<alpha123> Heh, lenses actually make quite a bit of sense now. I feel enlightened. xP
<benzrf> fun things to do with prisms
<benzrf> parsing
<benzrf> for example
<benzrf> if you have a string
<alpha123> Oh yeah, could you do lookahead parsing with those pretty easily?
<benzrf> you can prism it into a json data
<benzrf> preview _parseJSON "{\"foo\": 3}"
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<benzrf> 1. it has potential failure
<benzrf> 2. it can be reverted
<mordof> i think this channel has the highest amount of off-topic conversations that drag on than most other programming channels i idle in
<benzrf> mordof: :P
<benzrf> alpha123: incidentally, Parsec is amazingly excellent to use
<benzrf> turns out, monads/applicatives/functors are perfect for parsing
<alpha123> mordof: I think you're right, but they're certainly interesting.
<alpha123> benzrf: I like writing my parser by hand in JavaScript :P
<benzrf> anyway, the real REAL fun starts when you compose lenses with prisms
<alpha123> Oh boy....
<benzrf> but then you start getting realllllllllllllllllllllllllllly weird types
<benzrf> i dont really know lenses that well myself
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<alpha123> The types were what turned me off Haskell last time. :|
<benzrf> ;p
<benzrf> types are not that bad
<alpha123> hah, I'll check that out :P
<benzrf> alpha123: Parsec tho
<benzrf> parsec is the SHIT
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<alpha123> mordof: Quick, Ruby talk: Is the proc_object.(args) syntax encouraged, or is it too obscure?
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<benzrf> alpha123: idk
<benzrf> i usually just use call
<benzrf> monads/app/func are a shockingly fitting abstraction for parsers
<Senjai> alpha123: call is prefered
<alpha123> Senjai: For any paricular reason, or just that .() looks weird?
<alpha123> (I rather like .() myself, and used it recently)
<alpha123> benzrf: Better than just writing top-down operator precedence parsers in JavaScript or Ruby or Common Lisp?
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<Senjai> alpha123: because every other method uses a named function
<mordof> alpha123: i didn't even know you could do proc_obj.() to call a proc
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<Senjai> alpha123: play the rule not the exception
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<benzrf> alpha123: 1 sec...
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<alpha123> Senjai: Why'd they add it then?
<benzrf> i implemented a toy lisp in haskell a whil back
<benzrf> 1 sec
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<Senjai> alpha123: Why'd they add inject when they had reduce?
<alpha123> No idea. =P
<alpha123> How does .() work, anyway? Can I use it on anything that defines a call method?
<benzrf> alpha123: yea
<benzrf> its pure sugar
<Senjai> alpha123: Because before ruby knew its identity it tried to play to many other identities
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<shevy> it's the old martial arts philosophy
<alpha123> Senjai: The reason I like .() is to reduce the tedium of calling procs
<shevy> use any of them that works
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<shevy> didn't you guys watch bloodsport :(
<shevy> benzrf you are too young to know it, go watch it http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0092675/
<Senjai> alpha123: Uhm, .call is too tedious? We also dont like () when there are no args
<mordof> alpha123: i dunno.. i like the clarity of .call better
<Senjai> and even then we dont use paraents
<Senjai> Proc.new.call > Proc.new.()
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<shevy> >> Proc.new {5}.call
<eval-in> shevy => 5 (https://eval.in/145216)
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<shevy> >> Proc.new {5}[]
<eval-in> shevy => 5 (https://eval.in/145217)
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<benzrf> check out that sweet, sweet parsin
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<shevy> what abomination is that
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<shevy> haskell?
<alpha123> benzrf: That doesn't look vastly superior to what I'd write in JS/Lua/Ruby/CL though
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<Senjai> Haskell is dying
<alpha123> My specific case does pass an arg, but eh... yeah, I find a lot of `call`s disrupt the flow of the code a bit, since really procs should just be called like any other method
<alpha123> s/any other/a/
<benzrf> alpha123: u wot
<benzrf> alpha123: that is a fully functional lisp parser in 30 lines
<benzrf> (fuck '(1 2 (this ,bullshit)) ''this (works too))
<benzrf> oh wait
<benzrf> that was a regular quote not a quasiquote
<benzrf> derp
<alpha123> benzrf: Sure that's nice, but it's pretty much like a less-readable BNF grammar
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<benzrf> ok so?
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<alpha123> and I prefer writing recursive-descent parsers myself
<benzrf> would you rather write bnf or parsing code
<benzrf> ur nuts bro
<alpha123> Possibly :P
<alpha123> It's not much code though and it's much more flexible
<benzrf> o rly
<benzrf> how is it more flexible then o=
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<alpha123> benzrf: Here's a fully-functional grammar for a JavaScript-like language: https://github.com/alpha123/Arq/blob/cutscenes/arqscript/parser.js
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<alpha123> "more flexible" as in it's easier to resolve ambiguities
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<benzrf> what do you mean by 'resolve amb.'
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<benzrf> alpha123: congrats, your parser is considerably longer than my entire lisp impl
<alpha123> benzrf: ...that's Lisp, this is a full-blown language with actual syntax.
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<alpha123> Exactly what it says? To resolve a possibly-ambiguous situation thanks to the surrounding context
<benzrf> and since when can parsec not do that
<benzrf> it is fully able to parse context-sensitive grammars
<benzrf> code sample for my lisp :-D
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<alpha123> Not saying parsec isn't cool, just that in the very rare instance that I write a parser, I prefer to do it by hand. *shrug*
<benzrf> it has (primitive) error handling, and distinguishes pure v impure
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<benzrf> fie
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<mordof> hey - is it possible for me to have a class Tag; def name; end; end; and have it possible for mytag.name << str to append to it?
<mordof> or how would i go about making that available..
<alpha123> mordof: if name returns an object with a << method, sure
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<mordof> well - i'd like to have an instance variable that gets the append happen on it
<alpha123> mordof: Then make a class that defines << and have name return an instance of that class
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<mordof> hmmm
<alpha123> e.g. class MordofString; def <<(value); end; end; class Tag; def name; MordofString.new; end; end
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<mordof> how would that allow me to append the value to an instance variable inside the Tag class?
<alpha123> mordof: ...Er... well @name would have to be of some type, so just make it a type that you define that has a << method
<benzrf> mordof: foo = mytag.name
<benzrf> foo << str
<benzrf> same as
<benzrf> mytag.name << str
<mordof> benzrf: i don't want the variable to be external to the class.
<alpha123> What.
<mordof> i don't want to have to do mytag.name = mytag.name << str
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<alpha123> mordof: You don't have to....
<alpha123> mordof: Seriously. Just make Tag#name return some mutable object with a << method.
<benzrf> mordof: i dont think u understand how this works
<benzrf> mytag.name returns a value
<benzrf> then you call << on that value
<alpha123> mordof: It would be the equivalent of mytag.name.append(str) in JS, with all the semantic implications of that
* mordof forgot everything is pass by reference -.-
<alpha123> Except with a method named << instead of append
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<benzrf> alpha123: no, mytag.name().append(str)
<RubyPanther> >> klass = Class.new ; [ klass.name, (Foo = klass).name ]
<alpha123> benzrf: Ah yes
<eval-in> RubyPanther => [nil, "Foo"] (https://eval.in/145224)
<alpha123> benzrf: Unless Tag#name just returns e.g. @name
<alpha123> in which case they're effectively the same
<alpha123> (though yes, you're still correct)
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<mordof> well.. if Tag#name returns @name, would << work on that?
<alpha123> mordof: If @name responds to <<
<mordof> ah
<RubyPanther> @name is a variable, eg, a container, not an object
<mordof> RubyPanther: indeed, it'd be a string
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<RubyPanther> >> String.new.respond_to? :<<
<eval-in> RubyPanther => true (https://eval.in/145225)
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<alpha123> >> String.new.respond_to? :P
<eval-in> alpha123 => false (https://eval.in/145230)
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<alpha123> >> String.new.respond_to? :|
<eval-in> alpha123 => false (https://eval.in/145231)
<mordof> ..
<mordof> should make a language where the entire thing just looks like people dancing around and doing other things (flipping tables, etc)
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<mordof> instead of single-line evaluation, it requires that all instructions be given 4 lines at a time to allow for proper ascii art. whitespace is important (spaces only, no tabs)
<mordof> lol xD
<mordof> worst-language-ever
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<mordof> new lines would be a picture of a rabbit at the end of the sequence.
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<benzrf> alpha123: the key to haskell is to not think in terms of mutation
<mordof> heh, back to that
<benzrf> model your problem as functions
<benzrf> not as changes
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<benzrf> otherwise u are just fighting the lang
<alpha123> benzrf: See, I just don't think that way. :/
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<RubyPanther> Never fight haskell. Either think of everything as functions, or switch to Ruby.
<alpha123> RubyPanther: I switched to Ruby :P
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<alpha123> I kinda went Common Lisp -> Haskell -> Ruby. Though I use JavaScript 80% of the time anyway.
<benzrf> alpha123: neither did i at first
<benzrf> it takes time :P
<benzrf> still not totally used to it
<benzrf> but by writing a bunch i can at least feel at ease
<benzrf> the issue is not that your brain isnt wired that Wayneoween
<benzrf> *way
<benzrf> the issue is that you aren't trying hard enough to rewire it
<benzrf> :P
<RubyPanther> that is like trying to be "used to" BASIC. You can do it, but it only proves the brain damage has occurred.
<alpha123> I'm just not sure it's worth that much time to learn. I'm a web designer, not really a backend programmer (I do some backend stuff (in Ruby) because I work for a tiny company, but I'm not a backend guy)
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<benzrf> pfft
<alpha123> RubyPanther: lol
<benzrf> RubyPanther is notoriously full of shit
<alpha123> RubyPanther is kind of funny. :P
<instantaphex> Can someone help me understand a block of this code: http://pastebin.com/8fxzf8QE
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<instantaphex> There is a do block in the get method that I'm not understanding
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<instantaphex> anyone?
<alpha123> RubyPanther: ^
<alpha123> (Yes I just volunteered you for being a dirtbag)
<RubyPanther> No thanks, I don't do pastebin
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<instantaphex> What's wrong with pastebin
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<RubyPanther> I don't fight that fight anymore, I just only click it if it is gist or pastie
<instantaphex> that fight?
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<RubyPanther> why sucky paste sites suck, and which ones suck more, etc
<instantaphex> Sorry to use a medium that is so "uncool" by todays standards
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<RubyPanther> half of them don't even load for people who opt-in to client side scripting
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<instantaphex> ok
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<RubyPanther> Anyways, I have to go for my walk. Otherwise I'll get cranky. The last thing we need is a cranky old crank.
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<chipotle> anyone here use lynda? harvard offers free unlimited access for alums, jsut signed up...
<chipotle> how are their ruby courses?
<chipotle> they seem old
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<benzrf> bye
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<alpha123> Bye benzrf|offline (and thanks again for the Haskell explanation stuff)
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<RubyPanther> chipotle: yeah I do remember somebody recommending them once, I think it was in 2005
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<centrx> TWO THOUSAND AND FIVE!?
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<RubyPanther> it might have been 2006
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<centrx> carp
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<instantaphex> well shit RubyPanther, I figured it out without you having to stoop down to the level of pastebinning
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<RubyPanther> instantaphex: Yay! You win a free PONY!!! http://stuff.rubypanther.com/images/pony-200.gif
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<Radar> instantaphex: !whypbsucks
<helpa> instantaphex: Pastebin sucks because it loads slowly, has ads which are distracting and has terrible formatting. Please use Gist (http://gist.github.com) or Pastie (http://pastie.org).
* instantaphex saddles up like a badass
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<instantaphex> noted
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<Radar> p.s. it's also in the rules
<Radar> !rule3
<helpa> Clearly explain what is happening and create a Gist (http://gist.github.com) or Pastie (http://pastie.org) of the code that is causing the problem you are encountering, as well as any useful output like stacktraces. A "Full Trace" as opposed to the default "Application Trace" is preferred. NO FAKE CODE. If you're under an NDA, we cannot help you with your problem. Go hire a consultant.
<Radar> !rule4
<helpa> Do not use any service that is not Pastie or Gist to post code. Pastebin, for example has a tiny font and it has ads on it which cause the page to load slowly. Other paste services generally look like crap.
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<instantaphex> interesting
<Jnco> !rule1
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<instantaphex> a bit nit picky but I suppose rules are rules
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<_pingu> Backspace and arrow keys aren't working in IRB(Git Bash console) on windows I have readline 0.5.1 installed, but the problem is still there. irb --noreadline does work, but then I have no autocompletion...
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<_pingu> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/5660209/backspace-and-arrow-keys-arent-working-in-irbgit-bash-console-on-windows-mach tells i should also install readline-devel, but gem search --remmote does not show such a gem
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<Senjai> _pingu: Your problem is you run windows
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<Senjai> _pingu: I think theres a guide somewhere on the interwebs on how to fix that
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<_pingu> Senjai: But where?
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<Senjai> _pingu: If that doesn't work, or you can't possibly do that, the last option is www.apple.com
<_pingu> Senjai: thanks. i know windows is a pain, but i have to use it in this case.
<wallerdev> windows command line is awful
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<wallerdev> just give up and run a linux vm or something
<_pingu> wallerdev: use a git bash
<Hanmac1> use a Linux VM with SSH and Putty
<wallerdev> git bash is still based on CMD
<wallerdev> still get rectangular selection and lines that are forcibly cut off
<Senjai> _pingu: Why?
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<_pingu> hmm. thought ruby is the future.
<_pingu> bye
<Senjai> _pingu: nobody cuts production code on windows
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<wallerdev> lol
<Senjai> BAHAHA ... :(
<Senjai> I'm laughing and crying at the same time
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<Loaft> i hate ruby
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<Guest62991> Can anyone help on this? https://dpaste.de/OvGD#L1,3
<Guest62991> its "require 'thread' no such file to load -- thread (LoadError)" issue
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<Hanmac1> Guest62991: you are using ruby1.8 ... its support died already
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<Guest62991> Hanmac: yes, using 1.8 need it for some reason
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<Guest62991> some OpenVZ client depends on this..
<Hanmac> for what? building stone cylces?
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<Guest62991> Hanmac: Please help me with 1.8, its endless debate to use 1.9
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<Guest62991> Hanmac: Since its out of my wish, I can't do anything much
<Guest62991> so please help fixing this, in the way it is.
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<Hanmac> where didyou get 1.8 ruby from ? did you build it yourself or does it come with an outdated operatingsystem?
<Guest62991> Hanmac: basically 'require thread' fails.. to be honest, I manually deleted few ruby folders which messed up system and landed me in this situation
<Guest62991> on CentOs6 it comes with yum install ..
<Guest62991> may be outdated sources on CentOS
<Hanmac> like "i removed a few wheels, now my car does not drive any more"
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<Guest62991> So, can you help putting wheels back.. its engineering, we can break it and build it..
<Hanmac> use yum to remove your ruby, and then install it again with yum ... might fix your problem
<Guest62991> it just get some more work.. and at end its rewarding leaening the experience
<Guest62991> with yum, did yum reinstall, did yum remove and yum install...tried those options
<Guest62991> building 1.8 from source will help?
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<Guest62991> BTW ruby is okay, its gems which are broken..
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<Guest62991> if i say "ruby -v", it return 1.8
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<Guest62991> and as I shared the link, it breaks at "require threads"
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<Hanmac> how do you know that gem is broken?
<Guest62991> https://dpaste.de/OvGD#L1,3 if I see /usr/lib/ruby/site_ruby/1.8/rubygems.rb:11, line 11 is "require thread"
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<Hanmac> 18>> require "thread"
<eval-in> Hanmac => true (https://eval.in/145298)
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<dubler> has anybody used hired.com before? I was only able to get 2/5 questions... got stuck on the third... wondering whether or not my application will get denied 'cause of that, lol :\
<Guest62991> Hanmac: yes
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<Guest62991> and also this will prove that gem is broken https://dpaste.de/0tEE
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<Hanmac> Guest62991: okay ... rubygems is shipped separadly in ruby1.8 ... ask your yum to install rubygems again
<Guest62991> and this will prove ruby is right, gem is broken https://dpaste.de/bxKy
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<Guest62991> Hanmac: ok.. I thought gem is shipped bundled with ruby
<Guest62991> Hanmac: my wrong assumption.
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<Hanmac> it is in newer versions, but it was not in 1.8 yet
<Guest62991> ok.
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<Firebox> hi
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<Firebox> wind is very strong
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<Firebox> what is ruby’s newest version?
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<Firebox> \curl -sSL https://get.rvm.io | bash -s stable --ruby=2.1.1
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<Firebox> is it right?
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<asdfadsfsdafsa> please help me installing ruby-gems https://dpaste.de/gKP7
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<Hanmac> asdfadsfsdafsa: did you try to remove and reinstall rubygems with yum?
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<asdfadsfsdafsa> yes.. I did "yum remove ruby*" and "yum install ruby-*"
<Senjai> What's the style on indentation in go
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<Senjai> spaces vs tabs, 2 or 4 in tab length?
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<asdfadsfsdafsa> Hanmac: what I understand is, ruby could be the problem, so I did above.
<Senjai> wow wrong channel my bad
<Hanmac> asdfadsfsdafsa: did you use rails?
<asdfadsfsdafsa> yes..
<asdfadsfsdafsa> but thats eventual, right now just typing "gem" giving error
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<Senjai> asdfadsfsdafsa: Did you faceroll your keyboard when choosing an irc nickname?
<Hanmac> imo maybe centos is the problem itself ?
<asdfadsfsdafsa> Hanmac: :(
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<asdfadsfsdafsa> Senjai: :) sorry if you don't like it.
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<Senjai> asdfadsfsdafsa: Dont install ruby with yum
<Senjai> asdfadsfsdafsa: Use ruby-install
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<Hanmac> Senjai: he need 1.8 ruby for some suppid outdated app
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<asdfadsfsdafsa> Senjai: Hanmac is saying right
<asdfadsfsdafsa> building 1.8 from source will help?
<Senjai> asdfadsfsdafsa: if you need 1.8 build it from source
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<Senjai> asdfadsfsdafsa: If you ever are using a deprecated ruby, or aany package, its almost always better to build from source
<Senjai> asdfadsfsdafsa: Also, Update your app, like for realz
<asdfadsfsdafsa> Senjai: alright, I do.
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<Senjai> Hanmac: Got my first go app up and running ^_^
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<Senjai> Oh dear, i have to brush up on my data types
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<asdfadsfsdafsa> Senjai, Hanmac Am I doing something wrong. while building from source? https://dpaste.de/knaQ
<asdfadsfsdafsa> getting error while make
<Hanmac> imo using centos is what is wrong ...
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<asdfadsfsdafsa> Hanmac: I'm also debian guy, CentOs is pain in ass.. unfortuantely I've to use
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<Hanmac> last time i used centos ... i did git --help ... until i got "man - command not found" ... and i got "oO"
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<certainty> in case you didn't yet read: http://stilldrinking.org/programming-sucks
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<testol> Any Mongoid users here?
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<testol> Is Mongoid.load the only way to get configuration? I want to set some config vars from env vars at runtime
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<chipotle> good morning :)
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<Vyrus001> if i have class::subclass with init {@var="stuff"} shoudln't class be able to do class::somefunc(){puts @var}?
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<shevy> lalala
<shevy> Vyrus001 in ruby, a class name starts upcased
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<shevy> I dont know what class::subclass means but it sure enough is not ruby
<shevy> then somefunc() what is this
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<shevy> why do you write non-ruby code
<shevy> {puts @var}
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<apeiros> Vyrus001: you sure that's ruby?
<shevy> Vyrus001 here, work that through: https://pine.fm/LearnToProgram/
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<Vyrus001> i have a class, then inside that class i have another class, the outside class has a @var that im trying to access from the inside class
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<Vyrus001> but its comming up nil
<shevy> Vyrus001 did you instantiate your class?
<apeiros> Vyrus001: show us the real code
<apeiros> and not some made up, not really ruby code
<apeiros> gist.github.com please, not in the channel
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<apeiros> *sob*
<apeiros> Vyrus001: class thing1 # <-- that's not a thing in ruby.
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<apeiros> @vars are instance variables. only the same object has access to the same @vars
<apeiros> it's not even related to having different classes.
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<shevy> Vyrus001 as written above, class names in ruby start with the first character upcased
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<shevy> Vyrus001 you can learn all of that if you read https://pine.fm/LearnToProgram/ it is even short
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<shevy> Vyrus001 you have to use methods if you want to expose the content of @ivars to other classes; in your example you could then instantiate the outer class inside of your second class
<Vyrus001> ic
<Vyrus001> thanks for the direction
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<elmatador> ciao
<elmatador> !list
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<timgauthier> oh hi
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<gener1c> what lib is most used for application configuration?
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<gener1c> configatron?
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<apeiros> yaml
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<michael_mbp> ymm
<michael_mbp> hmm
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<michael_mbp> how can I interpolate '*' 10 times into a string?
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<michael_mbp> so I get '*....' 10 times, without \n's ?
<michael_mbp> array < '*' & join ?
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<michael_mbp> *<<
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<crome> '*' * 10
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<michael_mbp> puts Array.new.tap{|a| 80.times { a << '*' }}.join
<michael_mbp> lol k
<apeiros> o0
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<apeiros> >> '*'*80
<eval-in> apeiros => "********************************************************************************" (https://eval.in/145514)
<apeiros> as crome already showed
<apeiros> Array.new.tap{|a| 80.times { a << '*' }}.join is silly beyond reason - Array.new(80, '*' ).join
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<michael_mbp> thanks apeiros
<crome> some nice obfuscation there
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<apeiros> or Array.new(80) { '*' } if you wanted different string objects (which wouldn't matter with .join)
<benzrf> apeiros: ahaha that code
<benzrf> why not
<benzrf> '*' * 80
<apeiros> benzrf: scroll up laddy
<michael_mbp> benzrf: sillyness was on my part
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<apeiros> but "aller guten dinge sind 3", I guess (however that translates to english)
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<contradictioned> good things come in triples? :D
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<apeiros> sounds good
<apeiros> is that an actual metaphor/idiom/wtf in english?
<DefV> "threesomes are great"
<crome> lol
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<contradictioned> nope
<contradictioned> however DefV's variant is
<DefV> :-)
<apeiros> ^^
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<y_gick> how can I include a gem rdoc in ri ruby index cmd line tool?
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<apeiros> y_gick: when you install the gem and didn't configure rubygems to suppress documentation, it's added automatically
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<apeiros> if you suppress documentation on install, I'd check `gem help commands` and see whether there's a command to add it later
<y_gick> there is gem rdoc but I have no doc in ri
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<y_gick> there is only "Builder" and "Printer" for gems in ri ...
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<shwouchk> Hello
<shwouchk> There is a syntax in ruby for 'do x if y'
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<shwouchk> is there a syntax for an else at the end?
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<Burgestrand> shwouchk: if you were to decide how it would look, what would it look like?
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<shwouchk> Burgestrand: I'm no language designer. I guess I would design it from familiarity with python.
<Burgestrand> schaary|afk: there is `x unless y`, and `if y then x else z end`
<Burgestrand> Woups. :)
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<Burgestrand> shwouchk: ^
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<timgauthier> shevy
<timgauthier> BackEndCoder
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<timgauthier> p8952
<timgauthier> PING!
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<Burgestrand> shwouchk: but no, ruby does not have `x if y else z`
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<shwouchk> Burgestrand: yeah, I knew about the other synaces
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<BackEndCoder> timgauthier, do one
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<BackEndCoder> you ingreatful little fuck
<timgauthier> haha
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<workmad3> am I the only one who was more disturbed by the mis-spelling of 'ungrateful' there, rather than the agression? :)
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<timgauthier> no, i thought that it was part of the aggression
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<shwouchk> I thought it was another form of the adjective
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<shwouchk> Burgestrand: thanks
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<Burgestrand> shwouchk: you’re welcome. :)
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<shwouchk> I ended up with ternary
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<Burgestrand> Hah, I had forgotten ruby even had those.
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<Burgestrand> Uhm. Didn’t mean to sound smug. You learn something new every day, sometimes it’s stuff you had forgotten. :)
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<shwouchk> Burgestrand: :)
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<shwouchk> Burgestrand: is there a convenient way to look up docs for methods? I see that they are embedded in the code (for a certain gem I'm looking at)
<shwouchk> but it seems I can't get to them from irb
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<Burgestrand> shwouchk: ruby doesn’t have the equivalent that python has, most of the time the documentation is rendered into HTML somewhere to view it from
<Burgestrand> shwouchk: it’s possible pry (https://rubygems.org/gems/pry) can view docs of methods from the repl though
<shwouchk> :-\
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<Burgestrand> shwouchk: pry is a replacement for irb, pretty much
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<Burgestrand> shwouchk: for example, https://www.omniref.com/ and http://rdoc.info/
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<Burgestrand> shwouchk: additionally, if you look the gem up on https://rubygems.org/ many authors include a link to the documentation from the gem page
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<shwouchk> Burgestrand: I see
<shwouchk> Burgestrand: very unfortunate :(
<shwouchk> since the docs are in the code anyhow
<Burgestrand> shwouchk: sometimes!
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<shwouchk> Burgestrand: well, sometimes people don't write any docs at all! I wouldn't expect to see the docs in that case :)
<shwouchk> Burgestrand: as it stands I can't even see the method signature
<shwouchk> apparently
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<Burgestrand> shwouchk: indeed, I use pry a lot, so if I find a method I wonder about I tend to look it up through inside pry
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<shwouchk> Burgestrand: alright, I'm not against pry
<shwouchk> how do I look up the doc/signature there?
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<Burgestrand> shwouchk: I suppose it could be a language feature like in python. It would probably be useful.
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<Burgestrand> shwouchk: show-doc MyClass#instance_method
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<Burgestrand> shwouchk: or show-doc my_object.some_method
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<shwouchk> looks well enough
<shwouchk> thanks!
<shwouchk> now I need to find a way to alias show-doc to '?'
<shwouchk> :)
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<Burgestrand> shwouchk: show-source is aliased to ‘$’, so there might even be an alias for show-doc :)
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<Burgestrand> shwouchk: actually, it appears the alias is already there for show-doc as ‘?'
<shwouchk> ah, you are right!
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<shwouchk> great
<shwouchk> I guess I remembered it didn't work in irb
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<shwouchk> Burgestrand: thanks! you made my life much easier
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<Burgestrand> shwouchk: \o/
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<ericwood> <3 pry
<ericwood> binding.pry in rails literally saved my life more than once
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<ericwood> I AM NOT DEAD BECAUSE OF PRY
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<apeiros> ericwood: until you leave it in production :-p
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<ericwood> lol
<apeiros> once
<apeiros> since then we've a guard :D
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<apeiros> (simply something akin to class Binding; def pry; warn "YOU EEEEEDIOT!"; end; end if Rails.env.production?)
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<ericwood> lol
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<shaileshg> I have to download xlsx file using ruby and store it in the directory.. file size is 50 MB+
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<shaileshg> how should I go about it?
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<GoodTimes> Created a scaffold in rails, messed up. Already Raked db. How do i go back to an earlier git version where everything i did(including db) gets deleted?
<GoodTimes> Noob question :)
<gizmore> GoodTimes: you can revert migrations
<ericwood> bundle exec rake db:rollback
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<ericwood> if you want to go back a step and you haven't committed yo changes do "git reset --hard HEAD"
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<shwouchk> shaileshg: system('wget file-address') perhaps?
<workmad3> ericwood: or 'git stash' if you want to potentially save it
<shaileshg> how can i download xlsx file using ruby and store it in directory.. file size is 50 MB +
<GoodTimes> i did bundle exec rake db:rollback
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<GoodTimes> but i already pushed a commit to github
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<ericwood> workmad3: yah git stash is tha bomb
<shaileshg> shwouchk: i have to run this job periodically
<ericwood> GoodTimes: yay! time to learn about reverts
<shwouchk> shaileshg: and?
<ericwood> GoodTimes: figure out the sha of the commit you want
<shaileshg> shwouchk: maybe i didn't got system('') part
<ericwood> GoodTimes: git revert _________
<shaileshg> can you explain in little more detail..
<ericwood> where ________ is the sha
<shaileshg> is system() a ruby method
<ericwood> then push that shit up
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<ericwood> and go grab a cold one and drink it
<workmad3> shaileshg: yes
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<GoodTimes> ericwood: Thanks a lot
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<GoodTimes> youre awesome
<ericwood> GoodTimes: did it work out?
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<GoodTimes> havent done yet
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<ericwood> revert is pretty great if you've pushed up the change yet, it creates a new commit that undoes everything
<ericwood> reset is what you want if you haven't pushed up the change yet
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<shaileshg> workmad3: thanks
<shaileshg> shwouchk: you too :)
<shwouchk> np
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<shwouchk> If i have a method that accepts x,y,&block, how would call it, supplying all three?
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<instantaphex> object.method(x, y, block)
<GoodTimes> ericwood: So "git revert numberingitlog" removes EVERYTHING i have done? And makes the app work exactly like it did when i committed the git i revert to? Already did db:rollback. I am sorry for stupid questions. But i am just about to launch my first app ever that i have worked on a lot and i am so afraid to fuck up now :P
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<shwouchk> instantaphex: this doesn't work. Perhaps I do not understand the docs
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<shwouchk> instantaphex: (in pry): Signature: discover!(?, ?, &block)
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<shwouchk> does that not mean the method takes two optional parameters and a block?
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<instantaphex> what block are you passing it?
<instantaphex> object.method(x,y) do |stuff|
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<instantaphex> then put your block
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<instantaphex> then end
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<shwouchk> instantaphex: perhaps my block syntax is not correct then :)
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<shwouchk> ih
<instantaphex> you can store the block in a variable and pass the variable in with &
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<graud> hi, i have an initialize method with some flexible initialization, who does the user specify they want to use the default value?
<instantaphex> callback = lambda do |stuff, more_stuff| { .... }
<instantaphex> object.method(x, y, &callback)
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<shaileshg> shwouchk: will it download directly to the disk or load it in ram?
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<shwouchk> instantaphex: your call didn't work either
<shwouchk> instantaphex: It complains that I'm using 2 parameters instead of 0
<shwouchk> shaileshg: wget is a utility program on *nix systems that downloads the file at the address given to the current directory
<shaileshg> shwouchk: hmm
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<shwouchk> instantaphex: btw, is {|x| ... } equivalent to do |x| ... end
<shwouchk> ?
<FenixFyreX> yes
<enebo> shwouchk: yes. syntactically one has more precedence if you are nesting it in a clusterfuck of syntax
<shwouchk> heh
<FenixFyreX> I do believe that do..end is much better for a multiline block, right?
<enebo> but it is not behaviorally different
<ericwood> GoodTimes: it makes everything go back to the point you gave it
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<enebo> FenixFyreX: yeah do/end for multiline generally and {} for single line generally
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<shwouchk> instantaphex: in that case, your suggestion didn't work
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<instantaphex> huh?
<instantaphex> what kind of block is it expecting?
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<shwouchk> I figured it out
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<instantaphex> shwouchk, what was the solution?
<shwouchk> it appears the problem was that it was expecting keyword parameters
<shwouchk> not positional
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<the_f0ster> anyone know the gem that checks my working directory for a Gemfile so I don't have to type bundle exec constantly ?
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<FenixFyreX> Would it be intuitive to treat sqlite3 databases like a hash? For example, db['table_name_users'][id: 0, name: 'Bob']
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<FenixFyreX> I am beginning to write a wrapper, but I'm trying to think of any counter productiveness to result from something like this
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<canton7> tbh I think that'll start falling over when people want slightly more complex queries
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<FenixFyreX> True, I just hate having query strings everywhere in my code...seems unorganized.
<canton7> Sequel ?
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<canton7> then you have objects and method calls, which is much nicer
<FenixFyreX> Oh, didn't even know that existed. Thanks.
<pskosinski> and much slower in many cases
<canton7> also, DataMapper, ActiveRecord, and probably some other ORMs
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<canton7> yeah, but not by enough to make you care most of the time
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<professor_soap> Hey
<flughafen> hody professor_soap
<flughafen> howdy*
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<professor_soap> Im trying to build a very simple ruby chat application, p2p, just text, no audio, no video.
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<professor_soap> Any tips for some library I could use for the connecting of peers? I have no idea how to do this btw, sort of a learn by doing project.
<crome> ruby gives you the socket library
<professor_soap> hmm ok
<crome> technically its all you need. if you want to do it from the ground up
<instantaphex> ^ the socket library is pretty simple to use
<workmad3> professor_soap: for a learning exercise, you could use Socket in a naive manner and just have a socket open to each other participant
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<workmad3> professor_soap: and then to 'send' a message, you just send it over all open sockets :)
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<professor_soap> right.. great! Im looking into this :)
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<canton7-mac> there's also EventMachine is you're looking for something more complex. If you're doing it for fun, I'd recommend using raw sockets, though
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<FenixFyreX> professor_soap: for a read, you might look at this: http://tx.pignata.com/2012/11/multicast-in-ruby-building-a-peer-to-peer-chat-system.html
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<FenixFyreX> seems like it might be relevant
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<professor_soap> canton7-mac: maybe later as the project matures and I have understood the basics of programming with sockets, I can look into the more complex solutions. Thx
<professor_soap> Nice...
<FenixFyreX> I'm assuming it's using one socket instead of multiple due to multicasting...I could be assuming wrong though
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<voidfire> eh
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<pleasehelp> Hey everyone, this is off topic but I have a friend who is in a bind and needs quite a bit of folks to take a quick survey. Anyone that is willing to help is welcome to do so :). https://www.surveymonkey.com/s/2NCS3MN
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<i42n> hey, short ruby question: why does the first code work with return and it does not work without the return? https://gist.github.com/i42n/66c3202a99f482498247
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<apeiros> i42n: because the two versions have different control flow
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<rdark> i42n: return will break out of the block, so if is_episode? is true then you'll never get anything back from it
<apeiros> a return will return from the method immediately. no further code is executed.
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<apeiros> IMO both implementations are bad
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<havenwood> i42n: commented on your gist
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<apeiros> havenwood: I tend to do elsif …; else raise Unreachable; end
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<havenwood> apeiros: yeah, oops - just updated to an elsif as you mentioned
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<havenwood> apeiros: the else raise is interesting
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<apeiros> it hasn't yet saved my ass, but it feels reassuring to have
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<apeiros> also my default for case/when's without else.
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<professor_soap> exit
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<apeiros> that was a clean exit
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<gizmore> << nil.respond_to?(==)
<GoodTimes> Is it possible to change controller type in rails?
<apeiros> GoodTimes: #rubyonrails
<gizmore> < nil.respond_to?('==')
<apeiros> gizmore: is that a question?
<gizmore> it is ruby code
<GoodTimes> generated scaffold and because of active_admin gem it became class < InheritedResources::Base
<gizmore> apeiros: ruby code is usually the answer, not the question! ;)
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<havenwood> gizmore: A Symbol! :==
<reactormonk> gizmore, it usually makes people ask a few questions, like WTF?
<gizmore> :D
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<gizmore> why is << not working?
<havenwood> gizmore: >>
<i42n> havenwood: thanks a lot!
<reactormonk> >> "WTF?"
<eval-in> reactormonk => "WTF?" (https://eval.in/145575)
<gizmore> >> nil.respond_to?('==')
<eval-in> gizmore => true (https://eval.in/145576)
<apeiros> gizmore: use irb or pry for experiments.
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<apeiros> this channel isn't your lab. thanks.
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<gizmore> apeiros: it was to demonstrate newbies how cool ruby is, but you are right, sry
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<apeiros> so you were just like "I'm sure there are noobies here right now so I'll paste some random code in here without any comment and they'll go 'coool!'"?
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<apeiros> I find that slightly ridiculous :-)
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<gizmore> i find it rediculous that you think there are no newbies here :)
<apeiros> I didn't say that that's what I think
<apeiros> also the presence of noobs isn't what makes your action ridiculous.
<gizmore> well, back to topic, sry for my nil.respond_to?
<apeiros> hey reactormonk, how's it going over there?
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<reactormonk> apeiros, cars everywhere
<reactormonk> and TWC :-/
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<apeiros> TWC?
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<s2013> time warner cable i assume
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<reactormonk> but on the upside, the university has an inofficial archlinux mirror - 10mb/s downloads ftw
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<shevy> if only they would offer a good distribution
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<ExceptionlCatch> i'm new to ruby and want to start unit testing, what's a minimal testing strategy?
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<centrx> ExceptionlCatch, Use minitest
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<dukedave> I'm writing a gem which will use Sequel, can anyone link a guide on how to manage a DB connection within a gem?
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<centrx> dukedave, Use a configuration file, like database.yml
<dukedave> centrx, and just read it when the gem is required?
* apeiros hates rails for using .yml
<centrx> dukedave, sure
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<apeiros> what are we using? DOS 6.0?
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<apeiros> it's .yaml, ffs
* dukedave wasn't sure whether to go that route, or give the gem a .configure method, ala: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/18237633/best-place-to-initialize-mongoid-in-a-ruby-gem
* centrx doesn't use vowels in filenames
<apeiros> centrx: you mean flnms?
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<centrx> dukedave, Either way
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<apeiros> dukedave: sounds like you're painting yourself into the singleton corner
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<aarkerio> hi! I created a json object with : {foo:value, fuu:other}.to_json
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<aarkerio> how can I add a new line ("\n") to that hash?
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<dukedave> apeiros, yeah, I've been a Rails person for a few years now, so I'm coming to terms with life after everything's decided for you :)
* dukedave seems to have forgotten how to be an actual programmer
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<apeiros> aarkerio: to_json doesn't return a "json object" nor a hash. it returns a string
<apeiros> aarkerio: and adding a newline to a string can be done using e.g. + or <<
<apeiros> (former returning a new string, latter mutating the existing string)
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<aarkerio> ok, thanks!
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<dukedave> apeiros, are there any risks associated with singleton corner? This gem is pretty much just an internal DB wrapper anyway
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<apeiros> dukedave: you're fucked when you want more than 1 connection
<apeiros> you can cover the common convenience case by having YourGem.default_connection and set that as default for parametrized connection
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<dukedave> apeiros, I guess the alternative is to have the gem expose a connection class, which you have to .new, and then call on that?
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<dukedave> ah, and default_connection can return a new instance, with a config loaded from, e.g. a yaml?
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<apeiros> default_connection can be initialized in whatever way you want
<apeiros> e.g. YourGem.load_configuration(file) --> self.default_connection = Connection.new(YAML.load_file(file))
<ExceptionlCatch> thanks centrx! i have the ruby book and was double checking the community norms
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<apeiros> and: SomeModel.new(*args, connection: YourGem.default_connection)
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<shevy> ewww
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<dukedave> apeiros, nice, thanks
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<apeiros> shevy: you have a better suggestion?
<shevy> apeiros yeah - to have *args always the final position
<apeiros> shevy: oh dear… that was a *placeholder*
<apeiros> because I obviously don't know what args his classes will accept
<apeiros> shevy: also, *args comes before kwargs
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<crome> shevy: rubocop got to your head
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<shevy> crome hey, it copped away some trailing whitespaces already!
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<dukedave> Do you think it'd be reasonable to have a class method version of public methods, which use the default connection? So you could do "MyGem::Foo.find()" to implicitly use the default connection, or: "f = MyGem::new(connection: another); f.find()" for another?
<dukedave> *make that MyGem::Foo.new(..
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<l0cust_> ظضهمب
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<shevy> dukedave wait what is an alias to the other
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<shevy> ah
<shevy> yeah
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<dukedave> shevy, see my previous question for context ;)
<shevy> your MyGem::new got me
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<shevy> ruby code looks very different on IRC :\
<dukedave> The programmer in me is wary of the singleton route, but I love just being able to MyModel.find() in ActiveRecord
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<dukedave> shevy, I wish IRC clients started supporting markdown :)
<shevy> haha
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<RubyPanther> with xchat and the Ruby plugin, it would probably only take 5 minutes. I'm not convinced it is a feature, myself.
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<aarkerio> I am converting var = {foo:'value', ert:'56'}.to_s << "\n"
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<aarkerio> but when I save: file.write(var)
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<shevy> man
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<aarkerio> I see "\n" instead of new lines
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<shevy> >> var = {foo:'value', ert:'56'}.to_s << "\n"; var
<eval-in> shevy => "{:foo=>\"value\", :ert=>\"56\"}\n" (https://eval.in/145616)
<shevy> there you have your string
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<shevy> RubyPanther ruby bindings in hexchat don't work :(
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<aarkerio> mmm, how can I add the new line "\n" ?
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<shevy> you did
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<shevy> your string has \n at the last position
<shevy> look at what eval-in showed
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<RubyPanther> luckily hexchat is for windoze so programmers will never know features it lacks ;)
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<shevy> hey! I compiled it!
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<shevy> ok it did not run, but still
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<tengopreguntas> can anybody tell me what's wrong with my regexp expression. i am trying to remove all letters that are repeated, and leave only one. $ puts "qola qqola qqqola ppppola".gsub( /(?<c>[qp])\k<c>/, '\\1' ) #outputs: qola ola qola ola . what's wrong with it. why is it so inconsistent?
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<shevy> man
<tengopreguntas> it deletes all the letters when there is an even number of them. weird..
<shevy> hexchat has support for python3
<shevy> but not for ruby
<shevy> WHAT IS WRONG WITH RUBY
<Hanmac1> tengopreguntas: are you loking for #squeeze ?
<Hanmac1> >> "qola qqola qqqola ppppola".squeeze
<eval-in> Hanmac1 => "qola qola qola pola" (https://eval.in/145618)
<crome> qola pola
<RubyPanther> hexchat is full of crazy propaganda. "XChat is now practically abandoned." No, it is FINISHED. As in DONE. As in, IRC is 20 years old, there are no new features, clients should not still be feature-thrashing!
<shevy> Hanmac1 at least it is a cute pic
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<RubyPanther> I don't want frequent emacs updates, either. It is DONE.
<tengopreguntas> Hanmac1: yes. thank you. but do you now what's wrong with the backreference in that expression?
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<tengopreguntas> Hanmac: because it is not for all the letters in the alphabet, but for some of them that i want to do that.
<havenwood> tengopreguntas: which letters?
<tengopreguntas> qpst
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<Hanmac> tengopreguntas: read the docs:
<Hanmac> >> "putters shoot balls".squeeze("m-z")
<eval-in> Hanmac => "puters shot balls" (https://eval.in/145619)
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<havenwood> >> 'qola qqola qqqola ppppola'.squeeze 'qpst'
<eval-in> havenwood => "qola qola qola pola" (https://eval.in/145620)
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<Hanmac> havenwood: !! did you watch S3E11 ?
<shevy> RubyPanther thing is - xchat last release was +4 years ago http://xchat.org/files/source/2.8/?C=M;O=D
<tengopreguntas> great!
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<havenwood> Hanmac: yup sure did! must. destroy. all. statues.
<RubyPanther> shevy: And all the important features were already there 14 years ago
* havenwood blinks
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<shevy> I could not even compile xchat at one point
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<RubyPanther> 14 years ago nobody was using xchat for new features, we were using for already-old features
<Hanmac> havenwood: whats your current episode? are you already finish with this season?
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<RubyPanther> And if the replacement doesn't even have working Ruby bindings, that is a good example of why it is bad for users to continue feature-thrashing even after a product is finished.
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<tengopreguntas> shooot, i need it to be case insensitive. leaving the first q in Qqqola
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<RubyPanther> If it is proprietary, at least there is some pathetic excuse, "we sell more and make more money"
<tengopreguntas> that's why i was trying to use the reg exp
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<havenwood> Hanmac: on final episode of s3
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<Hanmac> havenwood: my handy has Archangel too ;P
<Hanmac> (mobilphone)
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<havenwood> tengopreguntas: 'Qqqola'.squeeze 'qpst' #=> "Qqola"
<shevy> Hanmac how is rxw doing!
<tengopreguntas> havenwood: yeah, i will need to return Qola
<shevy> I mean rwx
<shevy> god damn the abbreviations
<tengopreguntas> i think it is a job for the regexp. but i cannot make it work
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<shevy> RubyPanther I guess you also think that motif was finished 20 years ago
<RubyPanther> tengopreguntas: You can't, within reason at least
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<Hanmac> shevy made some patches improvements for wx itself, today i will document some more constants + some lil imput-checks (so it does not crash with out-of-index shit)
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<RubyPanther> tengopreguntas: There is no reason to squeeze all that functionality into a single regex. Use multiple stesp
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<tengopreguntas> Ruby, why not, i think regexp is suitable for that.
<RubyPanther> shevy: I dunno, I was using Tk (and liking it!) in Motif days
<tengopreguntas> i meant ^^^ Rubypanther
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<RubyPanther> In the beginning there was GUI pain. And then came GIMP to save us with layered architecture and plain-C OOP.
<RubyPanther> tengopreguntas: No, regex is suitable just for MATCHING. You're wanting to match some set of things, but then process it differently depending on which members. WHat I'm talking about is Qq
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<RubyPanther> There is a wee little bit of necessary processing stuck in the middle, so you shouldn't be even _wanting_ regex
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<tengopreguntas> Ruby panther, if you make your search case insensitive it will match it
<RubyPanther> Sure
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<havenwood> >> 'Qqqola qquack'.each_char.chunk(&:downcase).map { |_, chars| chars.first }.join
<eval-in> havenwood => "Qola quack" (https://eval.in/145621)
<havenwood> tengopreguntas: ^
<RubyPanther> Was the regex easy, or did you struggle with it? Don't struggle with complicated regex. Write step-by-step code, using the language you're using
<tengopreguntas> RubyPanther: sorry, but have you read the regex i am talking about
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<RubyPanther> tengopreguntas: The key part is not whatever the regex is. The key part is " what's wrong with it. why is it so inconsistent?"
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<tengopreguntas> that's why i am here for. to ask. but.. sorry you keep saying do not use the reg exp. but you haven't looked at it
<RubyPanther> If you're putting regex into your code that surpassed what you understand and had to be tweaked until you just-barely understood it, the code will be crap
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<RubyPanther> Right, I'm leveraging extensive experience instead of just looking at the code and answering like a robot. It is called "teaching."
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<tengopreguntas> RubyPanther: i know what the regex is doing. i wrote it myself. what i don't understand is why it is inconsistent
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<RubyPanther> You can't claim to know what the regex is doing, and claim it is inconsistent.
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<RubyPanther> That is a syntax error.
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<RubyPanther> That syntax error is what suggests that you shouldn't be using a regex
<tengopreguntas> RubyPanther: yes, ofcourse . i just came here to see if someone can spot what's wrong.
<tengopreguntas> what sintax error you talking about
<RubyPanther> Yes, that is an awful way to use regex, it means that somebody with the same knowledge you had when you chose to do it that way... won't understand it
<RubyPanther> ^
<RubyPanther> The English one.
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<tengopreguntas> RubyPanther: nevermind. forget about it
<blackavr> RubyPanther has the right answer, by the way.
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<blackavr> The syntax error they were talking about is in your two statements: “i know what the regex is doing. i wrote it myself.” and “what i don't understand is why it is inconsistent”. Those two are not consistent.
<tengopreguntas> blackavr: look, i think it is a pretty basic use of backreference.. i probably have something wrong because i haven't touched ruby in more than one year. just saying, use some other method doesn't solve my problem.
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<tengopreguntas> blackavr: what i mean, is that is not copy-pasted
<havenwood> >> 'nooooo Ppppprrrroblem'.each_char.chunk(&:downcase).map { |char, chars| %w[q p s t].include?(char) ? chars.first : chars }.join
<eval-in> havenwood => "nooooo Prrrroblem" (https://eval.in/145622)
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<tengopreguntas> by the way havenwood, that worked like a charm, thank you
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<havenwood> tengopreguntas: no prob
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<Hanmac> tengopreguntas & havenwood why not something like that?
<Hanmac> >> 'nooooo Ppppprrrroblem'.gsub(/([pq])\k<1>+/i,'\1')
<eval-in> Hanmac => "nooooo Prrrroblem" (https://eval.in/145628)
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<havenwood> Hanmac: i was observing the 'no regex' constraint! :P
<tengopreguntas> Hanmac: thanks a lot, i am looking at it.
<havenwood> timtowtdi! \o/
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<aarkerio> hi! I created a string like "data\": {\n\t\t\"job_title\": \"Manager\",\n\t\t\"user_type\": \"individual\" but when I save it into a file: file.puts my_string the tabs and new lines are not "converted"
<aarkerio> how can I force the tabs and break lines ?
<Hanmac> aarkerio: hm into what should your tabs be converted?
<aarkerio> I mean I want a formated text in the file, not the \n\t\t stuff
<Hanmac> hm yeah then you did something wrong
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<tengopreguntas> Hanmac: thanks a lot. i found out what was wrong with my code, i the backreference in the replace.. for some reason i cannot use numbers if i use named groups. this one works. >> puts "qqola Qqola QQqqola qQQqqola ppola ppPola PPpola".gsub( /(?<c>[qp])\k<c>+/xmi, '\k<c>' )
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<tengopreguntas> Hanmac: actually your version is better cuz no need to use named groups
<havenwood> tengopreguntas: white noise :P
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<mordof> say I have a class, that has an instance variable of an array. and inside that array are many different instances of another class. if i have a variable pointing directly at one of the instances in the array, is it possible to determine which original class instance has hold of the array it's in?
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<mordof> or should i keep a parent reference
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<mordof> I'm thinking it's probably going to be a parent reference to be kept in each of the array items - but wanted to double check
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<jhass> mordof: no efficient or elegant way
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<mordof> jhass: ok, i'll keep a reference. thanks
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<jhass> mordof: you might want to describe your problem though. Maybe there's an elegant design for it
<mordof> jhass: html structure, heh
<mordof> making a parser
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<mordof> DOM nodes have a .parent on them that references their parent
<jhass> because we don't have enough already... :P
<mordof> jhass: reinventing the wheel is a good learning experience
<jhass> but yeah, in that case just go with the parent reference
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<mordof> i'm trying something different with the results anyhow
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<Firebox> ruby vs python, which is good?
<mordof> each language has it's own "what it's good at" generally.
<Firebox> yeah,
<ericwood> they're both great
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<ericwood> whatever meshes better with yo brain
<Firebox> mordof: how long takes time to master ruby?
<ericwood> Python has better tools for working with mathematics
<Hanmac> Firebox: i think of ruby as pythons evil twin sister ;P
<mordof> Firebox: anywhere from a couple weeks to a couple years? depends widely on the person
<ericwood> I <3 ruby tho
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<mordof> also depends on your definition of "master"
<Firebox> ok, i have a question, what are you doing with ruby?
<wmoxam> Firebox: writing software
<wmoxam> :p
<Firebox> as rusult.
<Firebox> ?
<mordof> Firebox: you're asking *incredibly* vague and generalistic questions.
<Firebox> as result?
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<wmoxam> Firebox: web apps, server management, queue processing, video games
<Firebox> i dont know what to do by ruby?
<wmoxam> :p
<Firebox> oh
<wmoxam> that's what I write
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<wmoxam> 'web apps' is pretty vague as that only describes the delivery/UI platform
<Firebox> i feel thanksful for web scraping when i want get some data.
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<Firebox> wmoxam: you can give me your coding content?
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<kenneth> i must be going silly, but i'm trying to write a regex and it's giving me odd results
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<kenneth> >> /([^\/]+\/.+)\.yml$/.match(".../config/dev/apns.yml")[1]
<eval-in> kenneth => ".../config/dev/apns" (https://eval.in/145642)
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<kenneth> oh, nvm, i know why
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<kenneth> stupid me
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<kenneth> >> /([^\/]+\/[^\/]+)\.yml$/.match(".../config/dev/apns.yml")[1]
<eval-in> kenneth => "dev/apns" (https://eval.in/145644)
<kenneth> this is what i want, yay
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<mordof> >> /([^\/]+\/[^\/]+)\.yml$/.match("../mydir/config/dev/apns.yml")[1]
<eval-in> mordof => "dev/apns" (https://eval.in/145645)
<mordof> alright then
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<mordof> ah i see why, nevermind
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<Hanmac> apeiros: did you hear? OpenBSD fixed the 2k38 problem with unix-time ...
<apeiros> Hanmac: that's been solved for ages?
<apeiros> 64bit unixtime…
<Hanmac> http://www.openbsd.org/55.html << "time_t is now 64 bits on all platforms. "
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<mordof> yeah - the main point being the 32bit systems utilizing unsigned instead
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<felipec> anybody can help me translate something from japanese? http://pastie.org/9134554
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<mordof> felipec: does using the basic translator not work well enough for you?
<felipec> mordof: google translate returns mostly garbage
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<mordof> heh, yeah i can see how that would be difficult to understand
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<mordof> unfortunately i can't read much more than hiragana at best
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<kril> ruby rails # ?
<wmoxam> Firebox: sure
<wmoxam> Firebox: http://github.com/wmoxam
<aarkerio> --> #RubyOnRails
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<Firebox> ok thanks
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<shevy> mordof go read manga
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<benzrf> looks like its time for...
<benzrf> A RANT ABOUT SOMETHING I LIKE™
* benzrf gets grabbed and thrown out
<apeiros> awesome, I don't need to do anything :)
<benzrf> apeiros: ever tried ØMQ
<apeiros> nope
<Firebox> lamba is used much?
<apeiros> Firebox: yes
<benzrf> apeiros: it's so cool
<apeiros> more often proc, though
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<Firebox> ok i see.
<apeiros> benzrf: I might use it in the future
<apeiros> Firebox: and even more often, indirectly via blocks
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<benzrf> apeiros: basically ØMQ sockets have bind/connect/send/recv just like TCP sockets
<benzrf> but...
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<benzrf> 1. they come in several varieties that govern the semantics of each of the above
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<benzrf> 2. they are streams of /messages/, not of bytes
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<benzrf> where a message is an arbitrary blob
<benzrf> 3, most importantly
<benzrf> they transparently handle connections and disconnections and routing
<benzrf> they are not 1:1 pais
<benzrf> *pairs
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<benzrf> apeiros: for example.
<benzrf> a REP socket automatically accepts incoming connections from REQ sockets
<benzrf> apeiros: RECV'ing will produce a message that was sent
<benzrf> you must then SEND before you can recv again
<benzrf> at which point the message you send will be routed to the socket that sent the message you last recv'd
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<benzrf> REQ sockets work similarly, but they send then recv then send then recv instead of recv then send then recv then send
<benzrf> and they route to a random REP socket they're connected to, round-robin
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<graud> hi, is ‘method’ a reserved word?
<graud> my syntax highlighter seems to think so :\
<apeiros> graud: no
<graud> ok, thanks apeiros
<apeiros> graud: most of them can still be used as method names, though
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<apeiros> you just can't call them without explicit receiver.
<graud> ahh, i see. thanks!
<apeiros> I had a similar issue recently
<apeiros> where sublime thought `gem` was a special word and required an argument. it's not. and it broke the highlighting when it was used without an argument…
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<Firebox> i think ruby is not easy.
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<havenwood> Firebox: Some of the best things aren't.
<Firebox> :)
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<Firebox> i will give up ruby.
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<Firebox> bye.
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<jhass> Firebox: what's troubling you though?
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<Firebox> i dont know but lanbada and :abc are strange to me.
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<kenneth> hey all, i need a hand with this piece of code: https://gist.github.com/kballenegger/36816df3829a3d4974bc
<havenwood> Firebox: i think i like lanbdambda better than lanbada
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<Firebox> lambada
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<havenwood> i can accept that
<Firebox> i will give up ruby and hacking.
<Firebox> it is not match to me.
<Firebox> bye.
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<kenneth> a little more context: this is a first pass at a monkey-patch on top of the the kenji web framework; basically it has a DSL for subclasses of its controller classes, where you can define routes as `route :get, '/hello' {}` (or get '/hello' {} for short)
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<kenneth> it takes the block and saves it in a tree internally after some massaging, and when the time comes to execute the route, it takes the block and binds it to the controller instance, and then calls it
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<kenneth> which makes the block act like a regular method
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<kenneth> so, the problem i'm having is this: the code in the gist works fine; it wraps the route method fine, and wraps the block find; but the binding of the block is off. the block that the user passed in originally when defining the route is no longer bound to the controller instance, instead it's bound to the wrapper block
<shevy> ack
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<kenneth> is there an elegant way of binding a block variable to the execution context of the block being executed?
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<kenneth> do i have to go through the dance of doing a define method from the block, grabbing it as an unbound method, undefing it, rebinding it to `self`, and then calling it?
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<shevy> this is way too advanced for me
<shevy> but it sounds as if you could use a proc
<zcreative> I'm trying to make a ruby gem but I'm having a little trouble structuring it correctly. I want to do it like this: https://gist.github.com/zackperdue/54b28fee8660854a1602
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<shevy> zcreative where is the .gemspec file
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<shevy> zcreative in general, the name of your gem project becomes, or should be, the main namespace
<shevy> so gem 'foobar', becomes module Foobar (usually)
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<shevy> zcreative yeah where is the .gemspec file?
<shevy> ah there
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<shevy> a direct link could have done
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<zcreative> sorry i just linked you to entire repo
<shevy> so the name is finagraph-rb ?
<shevy> I never had a project with a - inside yet hmmm
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<zcreative> just the repo
<shevy> ok how do you require it?
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<shevy> require 'finagraphrb' ?
<zcreative> Called just Finagraph
<shevy> ok
<shevy> require 'finagraph'
<zcreative> yep
<zcreative> I need to have multiple instances
<shevy> what I do usually is: mkdir finagraph; cd finagraph; touch finagraph.rb <-- this one usually pulls in the other files; also, at the same level, mkdir finagraph/
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<shevy> damn
<shevy> I forgot lib/
<shevy> semi-ignore the above
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<shevy> mkdir finagraph; cd finagraph; mkdir lib; cd lib; touch finagraph.rb; mkdir finagraph/ <-- this dir is the root project dir usually
<zcreative> yeah
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<zcreative> i got all that
<shevy> ok good!
<shevy> then all is fine
<zcreative> I'm having trouble with nesting my Modules and classes
<shevy> well: module Finagraph
<zcreative> api = Finagraph::API.new(token)
<shevy> k, API resides in that module
<shevy> module Finagraph; class API
<zcreative> client_list = api.client.list
<zcreative> i want something like this
<shevy> and where is the problem
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<shevy> client is a method in class API
<shevy> add it to file api.rb
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<zcreative> client is supposed to be a class
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<shevy> k so api.rb has to require client.rb
<zcreative> client has methods
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<zcreative> at the top?
<shevy> so put client.rb next to it and require it from api.rb
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<shevy> requires usually come on top yeah
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<zcreative> If you see, I am requiring all my files in the lib/finagraph.rb
<shevy> well, you can split that up
<shevy> let the file that needs the class do the require for you
<Stalkr_> Are Cucumber related questions okay here?
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<shevy> zcreative, in general it is best to try minimal requires, to avoid circular requires
<zcreative> ok
<shevy> Stalkr_ I guess you can try; I can't reply though because I know nothing about Cucumber, perhaps someone else who uses it can reply
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<zcreative> so only require files in the file i need them in
<shevy> zcreative that would seem the simplest way in the long run
<shevy> in ruby 1.8.x I put all requires in a project into like every file
<jhass> zcreative: just def client; @client ||= Client.new end; in your API class?
<shevy> since ruby 1.9.x I get circular dependency warnings
<shevy> so I had to be more explicit
<Stalkr_> I am trying to use VCR with Cucumber, but I am not having any success. The cassette does not get written. Any idea what's causing this? https://gist.github.com/anonymous/e6512d560739e376f495 are my scenarios so far
<zcreative> jhass So would i do this for every other class I have that i want under my Finagraph modules?
<jhass> zcreative: well, yeah, that or some method_missing magic
<jhass> depends on how many classes you have I guess
<kenneth> yay, i figured it out; here's my final code, this works beautifully. i <3 metaprogramming: https://gist.github.com/kballenegger/36816df3829a3d4974bc
<jhass> if it's less than, hm about 8, I'd go for explicit
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<zcreative> jhass yeah this sounds like what I will go for.
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<shinobi_one> do i have to require all of openssl if i just want an OpenSSL::SSL::VERIFY_MODE constant?
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<apeiros> I think require 'openssl' is sufficient
<apeiros> seems I'm wrong, though
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<shinobi_one> just seems silly to load it all for a constant :P
<apeiros> you sure you mean OpenSSL::SSL::VERIFY_MODE and not OpenSSL::SSL::VERIFY_NONE?
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<shinobi_one> i mean the <MODE> part can be whatever the correct one i'm going to use is
<shinobi_one> OpenSSL::SSL::VERIFY_<WHATEVER>
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<apeiros> net/https
<shinobi_one> i'm just curious if i have to `require 'openssl' ` to get the constant, or if there is a way to get at it without requiring all of openssl
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<apeiros> openssl too
<apeiros> well, you can grep the source and see where it's defined
<apeiros> you open yourself up for bugs due to changes, though
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<shinobi_one> meh, i'll just require it the whole thing, thanks though :)
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<fly2web> noone exist here?
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<shevy> fly2web we remember you
<shevy> you wanted to learn ruby about 20 times by now
<fly2web> yes
<fly2web> i want to learn ruby.
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<fly2web> how can i do?
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<havenwood> fly2web: there're some good resources here: https://www.ruby-lang.org/en/documentation/
<fly2web> thanks havenwood which is best document?
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<havenwood> do them all
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<fly2web> ok thanks
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<kenneth> so… spinning up threads in ruby is pretty slow right?
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<kenneth> what about keeping an idle thread alive forever, is that pretty bad?
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<Xeago> kenneth: ruby doesn't have concurrent threads
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<kenneth> a ruby thread is just a native thread, with the added limitation that the interpreter is not able to interpret ruby code in more than one at a time
<kenneth> no?
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<kenneth> (when is that going to go away by the way? kind of a lousy limitation)
<arrubin> Xeago: Ruby or MRI?
<chrisseaton> Xeago: Ruby threads in all Ruby implementations that have them are fully concurrent, but in MRI they don't run Ruby bytecode in parallel
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<chrisseaton> kenneth: there's some research on removing the lock that prevents parallel execution in MRI by using the transactional memory in the new Haswell processors - there was a paper on this at PPoPP earlier this year
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<kenneth> oh nice!
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<arrubin> kenneth: I believe that the problem does not exist in Rubinius and JRuby.
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