<pipework>
yakko: Well, think about it. If you're going to use a hashing algorithm what are acceptable costs? Where should the expense of hashing primarily be?
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<shevy>
1$ is acceptable
<pipework>
havenwood's suggestion of using pbkdf2 is quite acceptable, in my opinon.
<shevy>
my onion?
<yakko>
pipework: I just really want to leave this up for the end-programmer to decide, so I might as well leave a simple md5 in there :)
<pipework>
yakko: One wouldn't want their application DDoS'd because your hashing algorithm ties up your application, which is a funny thing I've POC'd to people who blindly pick things people say they should use.
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<pipework>
yakko: Another thing I'd suggest, is rbnacl so you don't have to think
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<pipework>
I admit, I am a djb fan.
<yakko>
I'm just really looking for a fast and reliable hashing choice, an easy pick
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<yakko>
but I think md5 is a little too old school for 2014
<havenwood>
yakko: *slow and reliable :P
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<yakko>
havenwood: yeah, how slow are we talking about?
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<pipework>
yakko: Egh, I'd just use rbnacl and make people install the sodium package, but then again I give 0 fucks/day
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<pipework>
havenwood: I haven't quite brained something out. Is it irresponsible of me to make something like keeppass that uses nacl through ruby if ruby will handle those decrypted strings?
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<pipework>
I feel like if I wrote this I'd not only regret it, I might just off myself when I learn the err of my ways.
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<havenwood>
yakko: slow is relative, you want plenty fast but intentionally slow to prevent brute forcing - md5 is not good
<havenwood>
yakko: too fast
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<havenwood>
pipework: like someone spying on Ruby memory?
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<yakko>
havenwood: but if it's not fast then I'm ddosed :)
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<pipework>
havenwood: Yeah.
<pipework>
yakko: Personally, I'd rather not use the libraries that everyone else is using in rails. Just because it'll be hilarious when every rails app is broken and yours isn't.
<pipework>
But that's kind of an argument for obscurity, except I'd use rbnacl.
<havenwood>
yakko: you can choose an appropriate speed with pbkdf2 or bcrypt, but speeding fast md5 sounds suspect
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<havenwood>
pipework: hehe
<yakko>
havenwood: how abou md5 + salt?
<havenwood>
yakko: pbkdf2
<pipework>
havenwood: I mean, right? That'd be the top lolHN post, "How I avoided looking like a stooge. A rails story."
<pipework>
yakko: pbkdf2.
<havenwood>
pipework: like how nodejs accidentally avoided heartbleed, heh
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<yakko>
pipework havenwood: has salting been proved as not much of a good practice or something?
<havenwood>
yakko: pbkdf2 with salt
<pipework>
Rubby comes with openssl support if you have openssl dev headers installed (you do, right?)
<pipework>
yakko: Listen to havenwood.
<pipework>
He's about as far from fuckwit as DHH is from being someone whose opinion I care about.
<yakko>
havenwood: I'm building an auth rails gem, I really just want to have the end programmer override it :)
<pipework>
yakko: Please don't. Just use secure defaults.
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<yakko>
pipework: I just really don't wish to get in the middle of crypto crazies trashing my gem because of their particular opinions
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<pipework>
yakko: I wouldn't use a gem for authentication that uses insecure hashing algorithms.
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<pipework>
If I were the kind of person who needs validation from the internet I'd write a blogpost about how terrible it is and then post it to HN.
<pipework>
An authentication gem that doesn't at least do that doesn't really do much, imo.
<yakko>
pipework: me neither, that's why you get to use your favorite hashing shit ;)
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<yakko>
pipework: letting people be is my goal :)
<pipework>
yakko: I already use my favorite stuff, so what does your library do besides introduce insecure defaults and some of your unwelcome opinions into my code?
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<mnemon>
yakko: there's no point in letting people use broken things like md5, if you want something fast just use sha
<yakko>
pipework: it brings multiple emails, usernames and devices by default
<snath>
other than the fact it's written in Python, salt is pretty good....
<pipework>
yakko: But those are easy.
<pipework>
snath: LOL.
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<pipework>
snath: It's written in C, and has python bindings.
<pipework>
It's pronounced 'salt' but written NaCl.
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<yakko>
mnemon: I was giving sha* some thought, but I believe a part of my goal should be welcome people from other technologies, such as PHP, I believe PHP people are used to doing md5
<pipework>
ohlawdy
<pipework>
yakko: Your library will be rubbish if you're going to write it according to what PHP developers historically write.
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<mnemon>
yakko: 1. md5 is badly broken 2. if any php dev still uses it for any security related purpose he should be shot.
<pipework>
mnemon: If he survives, he should be shot again.
<mnemon>
^
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<pipework>
havenwood: So, I've been curious. Other than having a constant as an entrypoint to my code, why would I really want to use more constants within that? I mean, why not use methods from there on out? Will they be a lot slower? Will they also probably be lazier?
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<havenwood>
pipework: hem, i think it was a talk by alex gaynor of topaz where i recently heard some discussion of method lookup optimization. i'd assume a cheaper lookup than method lookup, but i think the main reason i'd use them is to signal to the reader they are set up front and don't change.
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<havenwood>
pipework: i guess also exposing them on the class/module in a nice distinct way. i'm sure we could get by fine without them. ;)
<havenwood>
s/method lookup/constant lookup
<pipework>
havenwood: Besides performance I came up with classes assigned to constants look prettier when you inspect them.
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<pipework>
havenwood: I figure it's probably an extreme towards Alan Kay's messages.
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<havenwood>
pipework: an interesting thing i've seen a bit lately is using the new string freeze literal when declaring string consts, like: VERSION = '0.0.1'.freeze
<pipework>
havenwood: Yeah, I've been doing that.
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<havenwood>
make those constants a tad more constant, heh
<pipework>
There's a good amount of THINGS = %w|my things are awesome|.map(&:freeze).freeze
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<pontiki>
hi
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<pipework>
pontiki: hi
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<pontiki>
hallo pipework
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* pipework
should nick to gripework with the week he's had.
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<pontiki>
aww
<havenwood>
fri o/
<pipework>
havenwood: What I figured this morning was, "Well, there's only one more day left for it to get worse."
<pipework>
one day at a time. :(
<elevati0_n>
whats a good enviroment to use ruby in ??
<elevati0_n>
i like text editors but I think i need a running enviroment that I can use on rails
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<havenwood>
elevati0_n: RubyMine is the usual suggestion for IDEs. Though I think most Rails devs use a text editor. You might ask in #rubyonrails.
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<havenwood>
elevati0_n: A text editor, a shell and Pry make a nice environment.
<pipework>
elevati0_n: Lunix is fun. I use vim.
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<elevati0_n>
whats a pry?
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<havenwood>
elevati0_n: Fedora or Arch Linux have nice packaged Rubies, but there are other good linux distro choices as well. OS X is quite a popular platform with Rubyists as well.
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* havenwood
apparently ends all sentences with "as well," as well.
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<havenwood>
elevati0_n: get a nice posix setup with a package manager and build tools working imho
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<havenwood>
whether it be Linux/OS X/BSD/whever, pick your poison, just something *nix
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<pipework>
havenwood: chronix? :d
<havenwood>
pipework: the chronic-what?!-cles of narnia
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<havenwood>
pipework: if it matches the glob ;)
<pipework>
havenwood: Yeah... exactly.
<yakko>
cool, I'm done with the hashsing side of my gem, thanks havenwood and pipework for the input :)
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<pipework>
yakko: Is it crappy?
<yakko>
pipework: looks just like your hair :)
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<havenwood>
yakko: just promise you didn't use md5 or sha1 for password hashing...!
<pipework>
yakko: Freaking awesome then?
<havenwood>
yakko: better to use reversed pig latin
<yakko>
pipework: yeah :)
<pipework>
My hair is cryptographically secure. That's where I keep my souls.
<pipework>
havenwood: Please. ROT26.
<yakko>
havenwood: are you a rails dev?
<elevati0_n>
hmm i just have a lenovo PC.. I want to go to linux but im not quite ready .. im undergrad in comp E
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<pipework>
havenwood: Or for extra secures, ROT52
<havenwood>
yakko: nope, but i'm a rubyist
<combusean>
hey havenwood =)
<havenwood>
pipework: double! heh
<havenwood>
combusean: heya
<pipework>
havenwood: tpope hates people like us.
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<havenwood>
elevati0_n: take the plunge, just do it
<yakko>
havenwood: cool, which ruby frameworks do you use?
<pipework>
Rubyists who distinguish between people who merely know rails and people who rubby.
<havenwood>
yakko: one i've been having fun poking around with lately is Lattice
<pipework>
havenwood: huh, that is interesting.
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<havenwood>
yakko: Sinatra NYNY Hobbit Cuba Ramaze Camping Scorched
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<yakko>
pipework: BTW I changed my twitter handler, follow me @thejamespinto
<yakko>
havenwood: oh that's a pretty nice stack :D
<yakko>
havenwood: can't say I've heard of it, but it must be awesome :)
<havenwood>
yakko: those are all alternative Rack frameworks to Rails
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<havenwood>
yakko: Oh, and Padrino with Sinatra.
<pipework>
You gotta like a nice rack.
* pipework
enjoys sinatra, long walks with alcoholic beverages, and rack
<havenwood>
pipework: i do! but i like to keep it small. ;)
<yakko>
havenwood: you know how rails is such a big entrance for developers into the ruby world, so I'm building this gem because I've been feeling a little blue about all authentication rails gems I've been seeing, I think I might be able to spark some competition and free thinking :)
<havenwood>
yakko: link to the code?
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<havenwood>
yakko: You might consider picking a subject other than cryptography! :O
<Senjai>
sirwolfgang: if you dont want to modify the original hash, new_hash = my_hash.dup.tap ....
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<Senjai>
havenwood: You have to iterate through every key that way, thats no fun
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<crucify_me>
deep_clone or marshal makes copies where you can choose references to be copied
<sirwolfgang>
chaining .deletes seems cleaner then block
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<sirwolfgang>
err delete returns value, i wish there was a chainable version of reject
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<sirwolfgang>
havenwood: thanks
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<pontiki>
sirwolfgang: rails 4 has Hash#slice which is pretty cool
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<pontiki>
and Hash#except goes the other way
<sirwolfgang>
pontiki: Ya. HAHA Senjai see I ask ori in the right chan :P
<sirwolfgang>
pontiki: Ya. I like that syntax, thanks!
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<Senjai>
sirwolfgang: You don't need to be snide.
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<sirwolfgang>
Senjai: I am just teasing, jees
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<BraddPitt>
Hi all. When attempting to initialize an object from a namespaced class, regardless of the param I pass in I get `undefined method foo= for #<Namespace::ClassName>`
<BraddPitt>
where foo is whatever param name i pass in
<Senjai>
BraddPitt: !ode
<BraddPitt>
any reason why this is happening?
<Senjai>
BraddPitt: !code
<helpa>
BraddPitt: We cannot help you with your problem if you don't show us your code. Please put it on http://gist.github.com and give us the URL so we can see it.
<Senjai>
BraddPitt: You know you can add more than one file to a gist? I need the Pirata Torrent file, the API file, and the stack trace, seperate so I can read line numbers
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<RubyPanther>
fly2web: if you want lots of monies study Java and VB
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<RubyPanther>
Ruby is for paupers who spent all their money on silly red slippers
<crome>
around here there are plenty of very well paid ruby jobs
<crome>
mostly rails though
<flughafen>
vb? haha
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<cek>
hi. What's the name of the function that would allow me to merge 2 arrays subsequently, 1st elem of 1st array to 1st el of 2nd arr, etc.. by creating array of arrays for example
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<Hanmac1>
havenwood: so did you begin with S4 or still with S3?
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<flughafen>
is there a recommended way to handle libraries? i mean, is it recommended to use bundle vs rbenv vs rvm... ?
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<j416>
I'm trying to use Readline to get basic editing functionality (arrows, ^u), but I don't want autocomplete. Is there a way to turn off autocomplete?
<flughafen>
j416: should i use bundler to manage the rails installation too? according to the bundler website for setting up rails, they use gem install rails and then bundler after that
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<j416>
flughafen: I've no idea, I don't use rails
<flughafen>
ok thanks
<gener1c>
will // and /**/ style comments work?
<gener1c>
ill google it :P
<j416>
flughafen: but if it were me, I'd probably put it all into bundler, so that I could do just 'bundle install' and get everything needed
<flughafen>
ok
<j416>
gener1c: it seems json doesn't support comments, at all
<j416>
gener1c: if you want you could write a pre-parser for that
<j416>
i.e. strip all lines that begin with # or so
<gener1c>
j416: JSON.parse does
<gener1c>
/**/ comments worked
<gener1c>
woot?
<j416>
weird
<gener1c>
:D
<j416>
didn't know that
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<j416>
gener1c: but I wouldn't count on it always working that way
<j416>
gener1c: JSON specification (json.org) seems to say nothing about comments being supported
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<toretore>
json doesn't support comments
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<voltagex>
hey, is there a way of packaging up a gem+deps as an installer for Linux? I'm just interested in running this one gem out of a path somewhere and don't mind if I ship an extra copy of Ruby.
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<shevy>
voltagex you may have to bundle everything together
<shevy>
a .gem is nothing else than an archive, just like .tar.xz is as well
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<zack`>
ls
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<shevy>
rm *
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* mokha
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<cek>
checking for mysql_ssl_set()... *** ext/mysql_api/extconf.rb failed ***
<cek>
Could not create Makefile due to some reason, probably lack of necessary
<cek>
what could be the problem? all tools present.
<Hanmac1>
cek: what is your operating system? try "apt-get install libmysqlclient-dev" if its debian/ubuntu
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<shevy>
file mysqlclient.so must be missing on your system
<shevy>
I have the libmysqlclient.so.18.0.0 libmysqlclient.so and libmysqlclient.so.18
<shevy>
oh he is gone
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<Hanmac1>
shevy: did you read about the problems one guest has yesterday in this channel? "to be honest, I manually deleted few ruby folders which messed up system and landed me in this situation" <<<
<shevy>
lol
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<myke>
haha
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<myke>
gotta love those types
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<cek>
its centos5, but it doesn't matter. the problm is that there's no symlink from libmysqlclient.so.16 to libmysqlclient.so
<myke>
"my dad says he was deleting some stuff in the windows folder and now he's having crazy problems with windows"
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<myke>
cek: so make it
<cek>
why would i make if i'm not gonna manage that. That's the prob of packager
<Hanmac1>
you cant run centos on Stonehenge because Stonehenge has too new hardware for centos ...
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<myke>
cek: ...then have a broken system?
<cek>
myke: why would you argue on that point?
<Hanmac>
cek hm yum "libmysqlclient-devel" or similar is installed?
<myke>
cek: let's step back, what is ypur goal?
<cek>
Hanmac: those were installed from "offical mysql site"
<Hanmac>
cek hm yeah i mean are both, the normal libs and the dev libs installed?
<cek>
my goal is to determine whether mysql gem in newer version doesn't check for proper libs
<cek>
Hanmac: yep, but I'm still checking.
<cek>
They're splitting them into normal and "compat" packages to get rid of library versioning hell
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<Hanmac>
currently error i got from making stuff "/usr/include/c++/4.8/bits/stl_algobase.h:429: confused by earlier errors, bailing out" ... and i was like "oO"
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<shevy>
centos splitting up stuff is deviating from the default
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<_2_nialljameshor>
hi
<shevy>
default source install will have libmysqlclient.so
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<_2_nialljameshor>
who is centipedefarmer
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<_2_nialljameshor>
hi s2013 and centipedefarmed
<havenwood>
Hanmac: voyage of the damned..
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<Hanmac>
havenwood: yeah ... name a Spaceship "Titanic" ... "what could possibly go wrong?" ;P
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<havenwood>
Hanmac: spacebergs!
<Hanmac>
yeah "Its a Berg ... IN SPACE!" ;P
<apeiros>
only kerbals go to space
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<shevy>
gerbils?
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<apeiros>
kerbals. I just send one 100km into space… without a ship. poor guy :D
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<xiq>
Is it really possible to memorize multiple programming language while maintaining a healthy life?
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<centrx>
"memorize"
<Hanmac>
healthy probably ... same? probably not ;P
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<xiq>
I mean wouldn't it inevitably push out all the other stuff in your head?
<xiq>
There's so much to be known
<shevy>
noob101 there are many mac users here
<shevy>
more than windows users
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<shevy>
xiq some core concepts are similar in most languages; like functions/methods
<pipework>
xiq: Is it really possible to memorize the English language while maintaining a healthy lifestyle? Just look at English professors
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<shevy>
pipework drunk, fat, old men with grey beards?
<pipework>
shevy: I've seen some drunk, fat, old women with grey beards.
<pipework>
Let's not be sexist.
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<noob101>
shevy Apple looks top notch and stuff but is it better? Is it really worth buying the expensive product? I know the commands are different.
<centrx>
xiq, Programming languages are all different ways of doing the same set of things
<pipework>
noob101: I use linux.
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<shevy>
noob101 I use linux
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<noob101>
pipework: Do you buy a linux computer?
<pipework>
I'm not really a fan of proprietary software, but do make allowances as necessary.
<centrx>
xiq, Learning one language makes it easier to learn other languages, because the concepts and often the syntax are similar or are the same.
<pipework>
noob101: Most any computer can run linux.
<jhass>
xiq: the trick is to have a vague idea what exists and to know where you need to look it up. Really, these days you need to know nothing, just that it might exist and where you can get to know
<pipework>
From your watch to your space shuttle.
<shevy>
noob101 well you can pick a distribution, but apple uses a *BSD core, so unix as well, the philosophy between mac and linux is closer than windows vs. anything-else
<noob101>
pipework: what is unix
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<pipework>
noob101: Google knows all.
<shevy>
noob101 the 1960s
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<xiq>
I was just thinking. I'm learning java in the university , ada and ruby in my free time, i know css and html and have to learn php for our web projects. I need to learn the android framework for apps etc... there is so much niche knowledge
<shevy>
noob101 just know your history man
<dorei>
shevy: any apple using a mach core?
<dorei>
aint
<shevy>
dorei no real idea, I have to do remote analysis as I don't have a mac :\
<pipework>
shevy: IDKbruv, OS X is a Unix. Are you suggesting that Apple has time travel technology?
<noob101>
shevy: I was born in 1997, how much am I suppose to know????
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<shevy>
pipework might well be! I don't think steve is really dead
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<shevy>
noob101 so what benzrf|offline is a year or two older than you are and he is a haskell guru
<xiq>
Jhass: good point, but not knowing something for real will take a whole lot of extra time once you're in a project
<centrx>
noob101, Do you remember anything that happened before you were born?
<xiq>
Sorry for my dumb writing im logged into an android irc client
<dorei>
noob101: u missed soviet union :p
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<noob101>
centrx: The best thing I ever did to learn about the past technology was that I read a book on bill gates. I just know like microsoft bit off apple
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<jhass>
xiq: from looking it up again and again, you'll memorize the parts you need often automatically
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<xiq>
noob101: I actually think that macs have a very nice workflow. It's actually better suited for producers instead of consumers
<jhass>
xiq: most people call that experience
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<noob101>
xiq: is it true that apple computers can't get viruses?
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<pipework>
xiq: Except for the proprietary part. Also, they're excellent for blending into coffee shops.
<pipework>
noob101: it is not.
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<tengopreguntas>
hi. anybody know a way in regular expressions to search for two o more letters together, and replace it for anotyher one, but keeping the same numbers. lets say replace aaaa for bbbb
<xiq>
Jhass: I'm just afraid i'll reach the ceiling of my brain capacity if i continue to learn that much different stuff lol
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<jhass>
xiq: nah, your brain will just dump what you don't need, much like a fifo :P
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<xiq>
Pipework: i stole an iBook once so i can give an unsubjected opinion: the people building these machines are actually very smart and thoughtfull
<jhass>
so you'll just won't have what you don't use regularly present anymore, but quickly understand it again if you need it, since you already learned it once
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<xiq>
Apples mail program is just awesome for getting an ebay amazon customer workflow for crosstrading
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<jhass>
what I wanted to say: don't bother about that, your brain is pretty smart at managing that stuff
<dorei>
xiq: u could try learning cobol :p
<jhass>
hah, yeah, I heard the bank sector is finally migrating away from assembler to cobol
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<xiq>
I would if i had time for that xD actually have 3 cobol books flying round here
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<xiq>
Jhass thanks, i can accept that as my final answer
<pipework>
xiq: They totally are! Except they're proprietary!
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<pipework>
Unfortunately, someone else decided that I should get a macbook air at work. So I have to deal.
<shevy>
damn
<shevy>
so you are also a mac user pipework
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<xiq>
Well who cares, hookers are also proprietary still i enjoy them. I don't want to fiddle in their source, i just want them to handle my "workload" :p
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<pipework>
xiq: I care.
<dorei>
i'm pretty sure that apple, just like ms, installs spies on its OS
<xiq>
Linuy is actually for the fantsy pants of the nerds. Like a hipster os (well, NOWADAYS)
<pipework>
xiq: Sluts are better than hookers. They're almost always free. :D
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<pipework>
xiq: It's not a hipster OS.
<xiq>
though i love my debian for servers and my thin clients
<pipework>
HaikuOS is a hipster operating system.
<xiq>
LinuxMint
<xiq>
Fedora
<dorei>
beos :)
<xiq>
And all the puppy flavours
<pipework>
xiq: my condolences.
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<xiq>
I wouldnt mind an os that just presents me a few html pages for user interface, i need a clean, mature environment
<shevy>
xiq linux gives you the freedom to rip away many components
<pipework>
chromeOS?
<xiq>
Nah too octopussy
<xiq>
And limited
<dorei>
shevy: what about systemd? :p
<pipework>
xiq: It's not really limited.
<shevy>
dorei well I wrote many, not all :>
<xiq>
Well its from google so i'll stay away from that
<pipework>
Well, you aren't forced to use systemd, but damn they sure want to be in charge of all things.
<pipework>
xiq: WebOS then
<dorei>
pipework: i think that most distros nowdays force the use of systemd
<pipework>
dorei: They do build off of it, yeah.
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<pipework>
but you're still able to not. If you can only use distros, then perhaps you're stuck.
<xiq>
Everything i need: full file structure, no bells, no whistles, support for all my peripherals, full web support and the adobe suite working natively
<dorei>
pipework: do you use slackware? ;-)
<pipework>
dorei: I was raised on it.
<pipework>
chipotle: Your fast food restaurants make me poop blood.
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<xiq>
And of course subpixel blending *hint hint*
<dorei>
xiq: infinality patches :)
<pipework>
What's subpixel blending? I don't even know how that would work.
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<aross_>
But if you use ChromeOS you atleast have a comunity if you ever need to hack around staff.
<pipework>
Google doesn't really have anything on it either.
<dorei>
pipework: font rendering stuff to make fonts look beautifull
<xiq>
That cleartype stuff forgot how its called
<pipework>
dorei: Like font smoothing?
<dorei>
yeap
<dorei>
subpixel hinting
<pipework>
Ah.
<xiq>
Yes
<xiq>
Lol
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<RubyPanther>
I thought font rendering was to make text look ugly, since the person choosing the text doesn't know what system I have or what my needs are?
<pipework>
xiq: For fun I'm working with a friend on our own programming language and we're also writing our own OS in that language.
<xiq>
Ah, a communist :)
<xiq>
Thats awesome
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<pipework>
It's closed source because we're embarrassed because the state it's currently in is rather messy.
<pipework>
But we've got printing out to a screen!
<xiq>
+1
<pipework>
Memory management, but nowhere to page memory to...
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<xiq>
Its always nice to have someone with the same interesr
<xiq>
*interests
<RubyPanther>
Normally I rail against any changes to software. I like everything to stay the same. I only want 1 new feature per decade. But systemd is something I waited years for the distros to adopt. Oh goodness thank you for replacing my 40 year old pid 1. And thank you for rescuing us just in time when some idiots were switching to architecturally broken technology, things so broken only SysV could make them worth choosing...
<xiq>
Sadly i dont know any talented programmers
<dorei>
RubyPanther: so, you prefer binary log files and no core files? :p
<dorei>
core dumps even
<RubyPanther>
if your main concern is your logfile format, I dunno what to say
<dorei>
RubyPanther: and the fact that it starts eating other software like crond
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<RubyPanther>
systemd is the replacement for the old SysV init scripts for starting/stopping *nix system programs, and the init process that starts other processes
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<pipework>
RubyPanther: Because you like having a system that does at least 4 different things, yeah?
<RubyPanther>
people yak about made-up stuff like "eating" other software, without even having a technical understanding of the reasons for the choices
<pipework>
I wish systemd split out a bit more, but I do like it.
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<RubyPanther>
pipework: I don't want it to do too few things any more than too many. Is it is a slightly different package than SysV was? Yes. Certainly.
<pipework>
RubyPanther: I think we'll just disagree here.
<dorei>
systemd is a big pile of crap, soon it'll eat the kernel too xD
<RubyPanther>
pipework: Just to put that in context, which do you promote, SysV, or a different replacement?
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<pipework>
I'm more prone towards appreciating the Unix philosophy.
<noob101>
If I commit a directory, will the stuff in the directory be commited or not? I don't know if I should commit my file and my directory both to make sure that changes to both objects will be tracked.
<pipework>
RubyPanther: I promote systemd and petition them to break their monolithic system into smaller parts and ship them all.
<RubyPanther>
Because the "other" replacement was architecturally broken and starts services (by definition) if you run anything that might want them, instead of waiting until they're needed
<xiq>
I like the minix pet lol
<RubyPanther>
And sticking with SysV, well... that is easy to do if you want it.
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<pipework>
RubyPanther: I really do like systemd a lot. I just think it's a bit monolithic. Having systemd is more important than sticking to unix philosophy, but why not both?
<RubyPanther>
pipework: There is no reason to break the parts up unless/until there is some sort of API that glues the parts together that would allow it to be plugable. That's perhaps a great idea. Since all the parts of systemd are tightly coupled currently, it could probably happen if the people who wanted it made proposals that worked well with what systemd does. I doubt that will happen for many years, for a variety of reasons.
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<pipework>
RubyPanther: I don't mind waiting, but I want that to be #1 on the goals and roadmap.
<RubyPanther>
Without an API, you just fake-split them up, because the parts are all core dependencies
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<RubyPanther>
like SysV init scripts and init were "split up," but they generally came together and were part of the same system. But nobody logs from SysV scripts. Is that only because there is no reason to log there? Or is it because there wasn't consistent logging available?
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<chipotle>
pipework: i'm sorry
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<pipework>
chipotle: It's okay.
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<RubyPanther>
The main page that explains why systemd is better is down, but there is a google cache http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:rm-N94-I044J:0pointer.de/blog/projects/why.html+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us
<madd>
hello, short question .... is there alternativ way to define 'foo => bar'
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<pipework>
RubyPanther: Oh I get why it's better.
<RubyPanther>
pipework: in the future I guarantee it will be modular. Why? Because everybody wants that; most importantly, sysadmins
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<pipework>
RubyPanther: I wish that were historically true. I'm willing to be made a fool again in the hopes that I won't be though.
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<RubyPanther>
pipework: perhaps you can explain that one, I'm not sure how the future is the history
<RubyPanther>
or even, what history
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<pipework>
RubyPanther: Well, I'm not sure how effective it would be to start rattling off every time a monolithic system was developed.
<RubyPanther>
When I started with linux, everybody was using monolithic kernels. For real reasons. But they knew modular was the future... when it worked better. And then later, almost everything was modular.
<pipework>
xorg are masters of it though. :)
<pipework>
RubyPanther: Your childlike optimism is an inspiration for us all.
<RubyPanther>
xorg is like... *nix Godwin
<RubyPanther>
pipework: Call it the wisdom of old age and experience ;)
<RubyPanther>
Rails also, features always started monolithic, and then they get broken into gems and made modular later, after a few versions of experience
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<pipework>
RubyPanther: I'm not sure that's the word, but it works for me.
<RubyPanther>
It is actually the recommended way to build that stuff these days... build it big and then extract everything
<pipework>
We both know what we mean.
<pipework>
RubyPanther: I don't follow the recommendations of self-affirmations.
<pipework>
"I do this and I recommend you do it too" just ain't quite good enough of a reason.
<pipework>
I like to extract stuff, but I also don't like big balls of mud.
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<shevy>
I like mudwrestling
<RubyPanther>
Well, don't build or extract from anything big or important, and you're there.
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<pipework>
RubyPanther: I'm pretty alright at cutting concerns vertically for most things.
<RubyPanther>
I thought rails 1.2 was a ball of mud, and then after they extracted... everything... it turned out pretty nice
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<pipework>
Probably the reason I get to work on the kinda of service oriented architectures that everyone else waves away because they think it's too hard or mired in theory.
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<RubyPanther>
I hear people complain about logfile formats, that is pretty obviously something that can be extracted and then replaced. So it doesn't seem like a real concern compared the architectural problems that are being solved. I really don't care what materials the bike shed roof are or if there is a potential for $300 cost savings, lets make sure we build the right nuclear reactor.
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<pipework>
Ah, yeah I tend to sit on the "Do the right thing" side of things. I let reality hit where it must, but I always do the right thing until I can't do that.
<RubyPanther>
pipework: service oriented architectures benefit substantially from things like dbus integration
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<pipework>
RubyPanther: I use it. :)
<RubyPanther>
If your position is "do the right thing" that is easy, just never be wrong about anything and your philosophy will always work.
<pipework>
It's interesting playing with dbus and tcp sockets.
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<pipework>
Some people are more 'pragmatic' about it. Some of them also make huge piles of shit in their race to the finish.
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<RubyPanther>
Well, speaking of piles of shit, I think 20% of the reason people hate on systemd is... pulseaudio
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<pipework>
But pulseaudio predates systemd, yeah?
<tengopreguntas>
anybody know which one has a better performance, using a brackets to list chars or using the vertical bar, ex: [ruby] vs. [r|u|b|y] ????
<tengopreguntas>
^^^ i'm talking about reg.exps
<pipework>
Only by a bit I guess.
<pipework>
tengopreguntas: I bet you could use Benchmark to figure that out.
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<tengopreguntas>
pipework: true. just too late to write that one
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<tengopreguntas>
pipework: actually, i just found a code for benchmarking, i will try that.
<RubyPanther>
pipework: Right, people already knew they didn't like all of the developer's choices, so wanted to hate it
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<RubyPanther>
I avoided pulseaudio for years, until I needed the features
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<pipework>
RubyPanther: I used it, but I figured, "It can't get worse."
<pipework>
I was wrong a few times.
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<RubyPanther>
Would I rather a rewrite from a different dev? Sure. Could that different dev architect a better system from scratch? Unlikely.
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<RubyPanther>
I have 2 sound cards and my wife and I can listen to different things playing on the same computer. pulseaudio, however many warts it has, is the difference between being able to share 1 computer or needing a second one... just over which plug to plug headphones into
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<pipework>
RubyPanther: I bet they could if they had the prior work of pulseaudio to look at.
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<RubyPanther>
pipework: If they were re-implementing the same feature-set, yeah. If they were just saying, "oh that is a pile, I can choose better features" then they probably wouldn't even finish it, and it would probably not cover the same use-cases
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<RubyPanther>
I'd rather have the better architect write a crappy first few versions and eventually "get there" then wander from OSS to ESD to ALSA with no proper abstraction layers and minimal features
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<pipework>
RubyPanther: I'd choose something that's actually implemented and being used by people smarter than me as well.
<yakko>
RubyPanther: you should get a new nickname, PhpCougar or something :)
<yakko>
pipework: sup |work
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<magnetica>
How do i get all the entries in Appointment table that match this criteria? Appointment.where('appointee_id = ?', usermodel)
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<magnetica>
Make it clear, How do i get two fields date & time in Appointment table that match this criteria? Appointment.where('appointee_id = ?', usermodel)
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<shevy>
sounds like a rails question
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<toretore>
they're in there
<toretore>
on each object in the collection
<magnetica>
yes, it is
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<magnetica>
on two objects 'date' and 'time'
<magnetica>
I am doing it like this, a = Appointment.where('appointee_id = ?', usermodel).first() a.date , a.time
<magnetica>
but it only gives the first one
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<magnetica>
i want all the entries that match this
<magnetica>
??
<toretore>
!!
<helpa>
!!!!!
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<centrx>
??
<toretore>
magnetica: bemore specific. i don't understand what you're trying to do
<Hanmac>
magnetica: you did "first" thats why you get only one
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<havenwood>
RubyPanther: #=> "?"
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<RubyPanther>
silly that it reads a warning as the output. STDERR is not the output, STDOUT is
<magnetica>
I've an appointment table that has many fields, i want only two fields (Date, Time) in all the records
<toretore>
that means nothing
<toretore>
you have them already
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<RubyPanther>
magnetica: You should be asking "why" more. "Why do I think I want only 2 fields?"
<magnetica>
ok rubypanther
<toretore>
and "for what"
<toretore>
and "what is it i'm actually doing here?"
<magnetica>
ok toretore
<magnetica>
got it
<toretore>
"i want two fields" is useless. you're obviously doing something with these fields
<havenwood>
fields of poppies
<havenwood>
#rubyonrails
<Hanmac>
<Commercial> is like the Wizard of Oz ... giving you what you already have ... AND you need to pay for it! ;P (hm i think i need to improve this joke)
<RubyPanther>
And if you have 3 fields and only use 2, is there a reason to care?
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<whomp>
any good ways to run a C FFT algo in ruby? i tried all of the gems on rubygems, and they're all bad
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<RubyPanther>
whomp: C is very easy to wrap, yes
<magnetica>
I only need to in array like this [Date: April, 2, 2014, Time: 9:00:00 ]
<whomp>
RubyPanther, so you think i should just roll my own bindings?
<magnetica>
** I meant two
<RubyPanther>
whomp: Yes
<Hanmac>
magnetica: did you try to ask at the #rubyonrails channel about that?
<toretore>
magnetica: why?
<magnetica>
yes, i just joined
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<toretore>
unless you have an interface with which you need to interact that needs that format, there is no point
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<magnetica>
<toretore> why do i need only two? b/c i only to work with date and time
<toretore>
but you don't *need* to reduce it to only two per column
<RubyPanther>
Hanmac: I've never used it, but I've seen it used to wrap large APIs that nobody would ever have bothered to do by hand, so I'm glad it is there.
<Hanmac>
magnetica: as i said before ".first()" is the prob
<magnetica>
if i leave .first() but i can't do .all() either
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<whomp>
do most rubyists code with linux or os x?
<RubyPanther>
>> arr = %w{ one two buckle my shoe } ; arr.values_at(2,4) # why should I care about extra elements? If I have the ones I need I'm already golden. Just pull out the 2 values you want after you have the collection.
<Hanmac>
RubyPanther: i also prefer to wrap APIs hand-roll myself ... so i can check & wrap the parameters and can handle possible exceptions better ... and with this parameter overloading is nicer to handle
<Hanmac>
whomp: ruby on linux is much much more easlier than on osx or windows ... (except for centos ...)
<whomp>
Hanmac, why?
<havenwood>
whomp: both linux and os x, but os x is probably the most common
<Hanmac>
for sample with only one command, you can download all libs you need to build ruby yourself
<whomp>
let's assume i have ruby already installed
<whomp>
what else is good?
<havenwood>
whomp: update your RubyGems to latest `gem update --system` and grab some gems
<Hanmac>
RubyPanther: pah i have seen worse extconf.rb
<whomp>
what does that have to do with linux vs os x
<RubyPanther>
whomp: Q: "do most rubyists code with linux or os x?" A: Yes
<Hanmac>
but imo this "-DRUBY19" is unessary ...
<whomp>
RubyPanther, XD
<RubyPanther>
Hanmac: I stole that stuff from google's perftools, I just changed it until it worked and left the rest :o
<RubyPanther>
From a Ruby perspective linux, OSX, and other *nix are generally all considered the same, unless you're using a proprietary editor
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<pipework>
RubyPanther: Does swig produce nice things?
<pipework>
I was always concerned they'd be pretty gnarly.
<RubyPanther>
pipework: No, it is nasty and disgusting please hand-roll bindings so that they can be tweaked or bugfixed
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<pipework>
RubyPanther: oh good.
<pipework>
I thought you were saying that it's not terrible.
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<RubyPanther>
I've done bugfixes on swig-generated Gtk bindings, and it is not impossible, but not pleasant either
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<RubyPanther>
I would have saved time with dec_number if I had used swig, but I'd have rather cut off my little finger
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<shevy>
whomp what if you want to upgrade ruby, how do you do that
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<whomp>
rvm install ...
<Hanmac>
pipework: its like pulling weed out with a nuke ... yeah the weed gots removed, but the collateral damage is to much to worth it.
<whomp>
shevy, ^
<havenwood>
shevy: ruby-install you fiend!
<havenwood>
shevy: :P
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<pipework>
^
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<^>
cooool
^ is now known as ``
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<Solnse>
when I define a method in a class, I should be able to access that method using Class.method(params), right?
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<jhass>
instance or class method?
<Solnse>
I keep getting a nomethoderror but it's there...
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<Solnse>
instance I guess.
<pipework>
Then you need an instance, yeah?
<jhass>
then you need to make an instance, Class.new.method(params)
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<Solnse>
https://gist.github.com/Solnse/e72ced94c7332acf96b1 is the simple class I've made... and when I use Reward.new.card_balance(type: "starbucks", username: "whatever@example.com", password: "password") I get undefined method `card_balance' for #<Reward:0x0000000232e7e8>
<jhass>
it's Reward.new(....).card_balance
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<jhass>
your card_balance method takes to parameters
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<jhass>
*no params
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<Solnse>
it won't take the instance variable from the initialize method?
<jhass>
it will
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<jhass>
but your initialize (and thus new) takes the parameters, not your card_balance method
<Solnse>
yeah... that's the way I have it set
<Solnse>
oh i see
<Solnse>
I see...
<Solnse>
Reward.new(params).card_balance
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<Solnse>
is what I should be calling...
<Solnse>
?
<jhass>
yes
<Solnse>
thanks.
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<Solnse>
I feel like I am just doing everything wrong today.
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<Solnse>
I don't see what i've done wrong on my initialize method, but now I keep getting argument error: wrong number of arguments (1 for 0)... but my initialize method does accept (params)
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<jhass>
the one you posted does, maybe it's not the one you're really calling
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<Solnse>
Reward.new would call the initialize in my Reward class, right?
<jhass>
yes
<shevy>
you understood ruby!
<Solnse>
that's really all that's in there right now... what I pasted is the entire file... and why I'm confused
<Solnse>
so def initialize params should accept a hash.... not sure why it's saying 1 for 0
<Solnse>
but that's not even happening yet because the initialize is failing.
<shevy>
I still have no idea how you call it
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<shevy>
I thought it was something like jhass showed
<shevy>
Reward.new(a: 1, b: 2)
<shevy>
that is one argument Solnse
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<Solnse>
yes... and it says argument error (1 for 0)
<shevy>
that is nice but that code example was given by jhass, not you; your example here <Solnse> @klass.balance(@username, @password) unless @klass.nil?
<jhass>
Solnse: more interesting is that you should get undefined method or variable params, since your param is card_params
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<Solnse>
note that card_params has changed to params
<Solnse>
yes... I was going to do a strong params type thing, but then this started acting up and I changed it back.
<shevy>
I still don't know how you invoke it
<jhass>
Solnse: I don't believe you that this is really what you're using
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<Solnse>
for example: Reward.new(type: "starbucks", username: "lala", password: "pass").card_balance
<shevy>
well ok in that gist
<Solnse>
ok, so i'm in my terminal... in the root of my repo, go into irb, then require 'reward' and try to call the Reward.new line.
<shevy>
I am unsure what the argument is called card_params but inside initialize() it refers to params suddenly
<Solnse>
shevy: that has been fixed... gist is updated
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<jhass>
Solnse: that's any reward in your path then, not necessarily yours. if you just do irb you should have to setup the path or use require_relative 'reward' or require './reward'
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<shevy>
ok, you initialize Reward so you will get this:
<shevy>
Solnse in what file is the method card_balance
<jhass>
updater destroyed the hack :P
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<shevy>
Solnse if you have these files open in your editor, it may be easiest to put them into one gist :P
<Solnse>
reward/reward.rb
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<shevy>
btw are you sure your code can work?
<shevy>
that seems like a very strange way to call it
<shevy>
@klass = Object.const_get(@type.capitalize) if Object.const_defined?(@type.capitalize)
<shevy>
let's ask jhass if he approves
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<pipework>
shevy: He's just getting a constant from within a namespace.
<pipework>
Not really rocket surgery.
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<shevy>
pipework do you do that
<pipework>
shevy: I try not to.
<pipework>
feelsbadbro.gif
<shevy>
no p0rn pics pls
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<Solnse>
it's really as simple as possible, I haven't DONE anything yet... can't figure out why initialize won't accept the params. https://github.com/Solnse/rewards is the whole project, it's only a couple files.
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<shevy>
as written above, #<Reward:0xb8951560 @type="starbucks", @username="lala", @password="pass">
<shevy>
it accepts the params just fine
<Solnse>
ArgumentError: wrong number of arguments (1 for 0) from (irb):3:in `initialize'
<shevy>
nope
<jhass>
Solnse: if you can require 'reward' you surely have something else in your path that gets required instead because I'm getting NameError: uninitialized constant Reward because you require the sub files before defining it
<shevy>
the initialize part works perfect here, I tried it myself, the reason why there is the #< there is my irb output, I would be way too lazy to type that out myself just for IRC :P
<jhass>
Solnse: maybe you build and installed an older version of your gem?
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<jhass>
Solnse: what does gem which reward say?
<Solnse>
yes
<Solnse>
yes
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<Solnse>
sorry... I did build and install an earlier version of this gem. crap
<shevy>
\o/
<Solnse>
thank you
<Solnse>
how do I uninstall it? lol
<shevy>
jhass is the man
<shevy>
gem uninstall NAME
<Solnse>
thanks
<shevy>
and perhaps version too
<jhass>
gem uninstall reward
<jhass>
and to test do irb -Ilib
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<shevy>
does anyone know of a gem that bundles all gems in use for a given project, into that project?
<Solnse>
isn't that what bundler does?
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<shevy>
hmm how can I distribute that?
<jhass>
bundle package
<shevy>
ok let's see
<jhass>
(check bundle help package)
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<Solnse>
thanks shevy and jhass, I've got things working as expected... was driving me crazy, hadn't thought about that I installed it previously.
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<shevy>
\o/
<shevy>
these errors happen only once
<pontiki>
LIES
<pontiki>
they happen all the time
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<pontiki>
hi, everyone :)
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<shevy>
hey pontiki
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<katlogic>
obviously the OP is a fag, but the hilarity
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<shevy>
katlogic yeah, every once in a while we need a drama
<shevy>
but I don't want offline text, I want live IRC action!
<shevy>
bloodbaths! fights!
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<katlogic>
Dunno, how does one play the 'if linus can be an ass so can i' card over IRC?
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<centrx>
"After I complained he gives what is probably a bullshit reason, it's hard to know because it's in Japanese, but the code in the explanation is most definitely a red herring."
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<vivmbbs>
hi
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<shevy>
katlogic by creating something like linux or git first!
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<katlogic>
shevy: I doubt either of us is that good.
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<shevy>
nono just the headstart
<shevy>
of course there were many contributors
<katlogic>
I suppose we could throw github contribution pretty-spreadsheets at each other and have a shouting match about whos greatest contributor eva
<shevy>
that sounds like a faulty way to measure importance and relevance
<katlogic>
And wrap it up with vim vs emacs, or c++ vs java.
<katlogic>
But still sounds kinda meh. But hey, I'm being realistic about our capabilities here.
<shevy>
no, then we would only have losers
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<shevy>
who gets excited about java
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<katlogic>
Naturally there are taboo topics, like why is ruby so slow?
<vivmbbs>
I get excited about java
<katlogic>
(oops i said it, dont throw the stones)
<shevy>
ruby is not so slow
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<shevy>
it's comparable to perl and python
* katlogic
is a spy for #lua
<shevy>
lua is a little sugar over C
<katlogic>
:)))
<shevy>
you can't call that a language
<katlogic>
Fair enough.
<shevy>
before luarocks it didn't even have anything trivial to get addons distributed
<shevy>
which mruby does not have either hahaha
<katlogic>
I'd not go as far as calling luarocks trivial, it breaks in zillions of creative ways out of the box.
<shevy>
matz models it according to lua obviously
<katlogic>
Hey! You just made me bash my own camp!
<katlogic>
You trickster!
<shevy>
well you have no alternatives to luarocks
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<shevy>
we have bundler!!!
<shevy>
it can use github repositories!!!!!!!
<katlogic>
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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<katlogic>
I suppose npm can too
<shevy>
rpm?
<katlogic>
Right.
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<katlogic>
(dunno, how do you spell Archer "right" on IRC?)
<katlogic>
Right?. Right.?
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<shevy>
I only see Right
<shevy>
do you use some fancy unicode character?
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* katlogic
googles frantically for shift-jis art to represent rhetorical question
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<katlogic>
I mean, ikr sounds too dated, i know there has to be a way to reinvent it
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<katlogic>
with more synnergy and buzz
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<crome>
I hate you all
<crome>
I mean evening
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<shevy>
hi crome
<shevy>
you are the god crome from conan the barbarian