<volty>
first and only language: it's like being a human and pretending to know how our Lord made us :
<volty>
:)
<havenwood>
omosoj: Core Classes tend to be important.
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<omosoj>
volty: lol. i think it's kinda why i want to have so much depth... because i'm trying to simultaneously learn CS fundamentals and am applying them to ruby
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<havenwood>
omosoj: i've vote just learn Ruby then when you return to fundamentals you'll find you know many
<havenwood>
omosoj: learn Ruby in depth
<havenwood>
omosoj: then you'll be primed for many things
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<omosoj>
i feel like i have a good grasp of ruby now. i've made a few programs and i've deployed a rails app.
<volty>
cs is not enough, you need experience with language design
<omosoj>
i don't know how else to improve my understanding/skills
<havenwood>
omosoj: so go through the Core Classes until you know how to use them all
<havenwood>
omosoj: then the stdlib
<havenwood>
omosoj: it isn't a trivial task
<omosoj>
k
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<volty>
kind of learning in advance ?
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<omosoj>
i guess i have a philosophical mindset so i like to understand things deeply. whether i actually get to doing soemthing with them is another issue heh
<volty>
omosoj already knows to program & SEARCH what he needs
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<volty>
he is about metaphysics too :)
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<omosoj>
:)
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<waxjar>
volty's going to disagree, but i think you might like haskell omosoj :P
<volty>
ahahah
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<omosoj>
heh, why?
<volty>
no time there to get lost in thinking about how it is implemented -- because he will get lost in haskell types and in damn monads, pushing and pulling pure data in & out of monoids and similar crap
<waxjar>
it has a certain philosophical quality i can't quite explain
<volty>
i'd rather call it time-wasting quality :)
<havenwood>
omosoj: Ruby has a lot of Lisp influence. Clojure is really quite nice and works with JRuby.
<omosoj>
sounds interesting. lol
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<volty>
naaaaa, havenwood, i do not buy that ones
<havenwood>
omosoj: Rich Hickey has a lot of talks worth listening to.
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<volty>
i've been programming, in c++, without knowing lisp, and as need & ideas were arising i was trying to implement them
<havenwood>
volty: From Ruby's manpage: If you want a language for easy object-oriented programming, or you don't like the Perl ugliness, or you do like the concept of LISP, but don't like too many parentheses, Ruby might be your language of choice.
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<volty>
ruby is not this because there was lisp or haskell
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<havenwood>
volty: Lispy i tell you!
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<havenwood>
Way fewer parens. :P
<volty>
havenwood: i agree with that. I am just saying that the world would have stopped without lisp there
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<volty>
all those functional time-losers talk about their influence just to compensate for their complex of inferiority —-- so much elegance, but so few results
<havenwood>
volty: Dunno, seems I'm seeing a ton of results in Clojure and Elixir despite the dreaded functional. :P
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<havenwood>
volty: New York times did a neat thingy in Haskell, does that count? :P
<volty>
ah, despite functional, you mean ? i am not talking about functional elements & patterns & paradigms, i am only against only functional & pure (like haskell)
<volty>
havenwood: does not account, what accounts are the libs —- go and try yourself
<havenwood>
volty: functional until you need the little machines
<havenwood>
volty: account?
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<volty>
coutn
<volty>
count
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<volty>
worth
<havenwood>
volty: Clojure has nice libraries and can use Java, Scala or even Ruby libs.
<havenwood>
volty: Elixir is admittedly young but stuff like Phoenix looks promising.
<volty>
i was not talking about Clojure
<havenwood>
and Erlang, so..
<havenwood>
many libs
<havenwood>
volty: hybrid ftw?
<volty>
i was talking about haskell & lispers pretending that there wouldn't be a ruby without them :)
<havenwood>
ahh
<havenwood>
volty: would there without LISP?
<waxjar>
matz has said that ruby sorta kinda is a lisp i believe
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<benzrf>
>LISP
<benzrf>
>not Lisp
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<benzrf>
waxjar: it's a lisp only in that everything is expressions
<havenwood>
Matz knowns how to write him some lambda calculus.
<havenwood>
epic fizz buzz
<epitron>
p { -> x { p[p[p[p[p[p[p[p[p[p[p[p[p[p[p[p[p[p[p[p[p[p[p[p[p[p[p[p[p[p[p[p[p[p[p[p[p[p[p[p[p[p[p[p[p..
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<benzrf>
ebin
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<apophis>
Is it possible to create a DDoS script in Ruby on Rails?
<apophis>
it for testing my web server bandwidth
<apophis>
not malicous activity
<havenwood>
apophis: So... you have a Rails app?
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<havenwood>
apophis: Or you're asking if you can use Ruby and just said Rails?
<crome>
apophis: it is entirely possible. you can also use one of the million available stree
<crome>
stress test tools
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<apophis>
ik i just wanted to use a ruby on rails script
<apophis>
haven r u asking if o have rails installed
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<havenwood>
apophis: use siege or ab
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<havenwood>
apophis: sure you can use a Ruby script, i don't see how Rails is involved
<apophis>
so essentially
<apophis>
Ruby on rails is just Ruby .-. ???
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<havenwood>
apophis: Ruby ships with a Ruby package manager called RubyGems which provides the `gem` command. Some gems ship with Ruby. One gem is called Rack. One Rack adapter is called Rails.
<havenwood>
apophis: Rails is a gem.
<havenwood>
apophis: Bundler is a gem.
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<havenwood>
apophis: In this case, your Gemfile (bundler) is specifying a Ruby version with a TINY version smaller than yours.
<havenwood>
apophis: Rails uses CoffeeScript but I'd imagine if Opal was around at the time it would have used that.
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<havenwood>
apophis: Though I'm not entirely sure if what i mean by front end is what you mean.
<havenwood>
apophis: If you mean an HTTP client, then no.
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<havenwood>
apophis: client/server
<apophis>
I mean something like
<havenwood>
apophis: you want which?
<apophis>
CSS
<havenwood>
oh
<havenwood>
assets?
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<apophis>
I guess
<havenwood>
apophis: Any of the Rack adapters will have a convention for where to put assets. Some have asset pipelines.
<havenwood>
apophis: Is this anything to do with load testing at all?
<havenwood>
apophis: I'm super confused.
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<apophis>
I kind of meant like if there was a ruby rack adapter for web designing, like another language for designing from Ruby
<apophis>
no im not talking about load testing anymore
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<havenwood>
apophis: There are a variety of Rack adapter options like Rails, Lotus, Sinatra, Padrino, NYNY, Hobbit, Roda, Cuba, Ramaze, Camping, Scorched, or of course a pure Rack app.
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<havenwood>
apophis: There are also non-Rack options.
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<apophis>
okay so ruby on rails is for web developing
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<apophis>
are there any Ruby gems or extentions for web designing?
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<havenwood>
apophis: a plethora
<havenwood>
thousands
<volty>
zillions :)
<havenwood>
apophis: millions of folk-hours have gone into gems
<cads>
but he says that the script uses a lot of resources
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<cads>
ie, it runs a whole browser
<cads>
wondering if there is a simpler way to automate that
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<Fire-Dragon-DoL>
good night everyone
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<Lewix>
hi
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<shevy>
what do you guys use for commandline options?
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<eam>
shevy: -f usually
<shevy>
lol
<shevy>
sorry man
<eam>
actually -x is my favorite ruby option
<shevy>
I actually meant, what or how do you guys parse commandline options? I always seem to get into conflict when I wish to parse ARGV options without --, and when I also want to use optionparser, at the same time
<eam>
gnu getopt
<shevy>
in ruby?
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<eam>
oh uh
<shevy>
well there is getoptlang
<shevy>
I never used it actually
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<eam>
I'm really unhappy with all the ruby option parsers
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<shevy>
yeah
<shevy>
I think ruby is too complex
<Blizzy>
Hello. When I try to install faye-websocket or eventmachine, I get the message 'Temporarily enhancing PATH to include DevKit...' then the gem fails to install. I have DevKit installed.
<shevy>
people tend to explore a multitude of different options but don't really retain simplicity or elegance
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<odinswand>
gents, is rspec a good choice for simple test driven development?
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<VanillaGoat>
Does anyone know if there's a way in Ruby to write the ctime of a file?
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<VanillaGoat>
I can retrieve the ctime, and write the atime and mtime, but it doesn't look like I can actually change the ctime.
<Blizzy>
Hello. When I try to install faye-websocket or eventmachine, I get the message 'Temporarily enhancing PATH to include DevKit...' then the gem fails to install. I have DevKit installed.
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<odinswand>
so yeah, if anyone knows a simple Test Driven Development approach that would be very useful
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<odinswand>
most of the guides ive seen seem to be for rails only
<dope>
what's the current best up to date book on ruby?
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<shevy>
VanillaGoat interesting; perhaps they forgot to add that to File?
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<Hanmac>
success! i did resize my lvm stuff and it did work as i wanted (after an accident)
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<nerdman>
any idea why #rails is not working
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<Rhainur>
nerdman: isn't it #rubyonrails?
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<sevenseacat>
you're not registered?
<nerdman>
i am registered, i will try #rubyonrails
<Rhainur>
in my ruby code, I have to perform 6 steps, and then perform some logging. If any of these 6 steps fails I want to skip straight to the logging. Is there a way of doing this other than an ugly nested if-else chain?
<nerdman>
ok, that looks better, thanks
<nerdman>
Rhainur: you can throw exception
<Rhainur>
something like a begin/always seemed like it but people seem to say using exceptions for flow control is bad style
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<nerdman>
Rhainur: if you have complicated situation its better since you can throw it from deep below as well
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<Rhainur>
nah it's just 6 steps
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<Rhainur>
if-else does the job but looks ugly
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<Hanmac>
Rhainur: begin ... 6 steps ... ensure ... logging ... end
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<Hanmac>
hm i have problems with yard, it seems it does not understand that it should parse, hm from over > 100 classes it only finds 7, and it doesnt find any method or attribute ...
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<shevy>
Hanmac even yard can no longer make sense of your code!
<wasamasa>
lol
<crome>
haha
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<Hanmac>
hey! that not 100% true ... if remove bad things from my code it can detect the classes and that methods are defined, but it cant find the documentation or the method body ... rdoc can :/
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<de_alex>
how to install ruby-dev without installing all of the dependencies to build vim with ruby?
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<Hanmac>
de_alex: oO what is your problem? if you want to build vim with ruby, and it does need ruby-dev why not just install it? or what package does make you problems?
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<de_alex>
i have installed it but not from the mint repository as one ruby developer suggested never doing it from a repository, only from source
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<Hanmac>
de_alex: if oyu installed ruby from source, the dev part is already installed too...
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<de_alex>
ah i see ok that's great
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<jonjoe>
sup guys!
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<jonjoe>
how does one iterate over a hash but conditionally disregard
<Hanmac>
jonjoe: can you make an example?
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<jonjoe>
yeh if a hash has "type" => "x"
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<jonjoe>
and type y
<jonjoe>
i only wanna loop the items with y?
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<waxjar>
check out Enumerable#select
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<de_alex>
you could also write a lookahead function
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<jonjoe>
this is inside a rails app so i have access to all of its tools
<havenwood>
jonjoe: makes no sense to me
<jonjoe>
anything native to rails to solve this problem?
<havenwood>
>> {"type" => "x", "type" => "y"}
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<de_alex>
JSON Array is one stacked hash but you could stack hash inside hashes
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<jonjoe>
using JSON.parse to convert to ruby hash
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<havenwood>
Hanmac: yeah, flat_map would be nice
<banister>
Hanmac In early times some sufferer had to sit up with a toothache, and he put in the time inventing the German language.
<havenwood>
an array of hashes
<havenwood>
de_alex: Hashes are ordered now, since 1.8 is dead.
<de_alex>
an array is a sorted list, somehow still diffrent as a hashmap, while a JSON array needs to be parsed to ruby becaused it is only saved as a string
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<havenwood>
de_alex: a doubly-circular linked list
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<de_alex>
it is something from c language where you use two pointers to allocate the head and tail
<de_alex>
ruby isn't prolog, but theere you could use it for recursion :)
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<de_alex>
The part about JSON arrays which is exciting is, that it much easier to read as a xml configuration file, still it is more a configuration format, otherwise you could use it as a text database
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<username>
thnx
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<chris6131>
Is File#flock in Ruby 1.9.3 compatible with flock(1) on a Centos 6.4 (2.6 kernel) machine? Specifically will my shell script locks interact correctly with locks from my ruby script?
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<F__i__L>
is there a quick way to get all consecutive pairs of an array? for instance when I have a = ["a", "dog", "runs", "in", "the", "beach"] to get [["a", "dog"], ["dog", "runs"], ["runs", "in"], ["in", "the"], ["the", "beach"]]
<OffTheRails>
not sure I want to go down the route of enumerable vs enumerator as I don't have the experience to explain the differences. any suggestions?
<pontiki>
OffTheRails: how you use it, primarily
<yxhuvud>
OffTheRails, dunno, but don't forget to mention that the methods chain.
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<OffTheRails>
I've included mixing the module and sorting using <=>
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<shevy>
OffTheRails one of the two is more important
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<apophis>
hello
<F__i__L>
thanks de_alex but each_cons solves all my problems
<apophis>
what port is defaulty used by ruby on rails?
<F__i__L>
3000
<OffTheRails>
the enumerable module seems really simple in itself. not sure how I can extend to 10 minutes
<apophis>
thanks
<OffTheRails>
you mixin the module, define an each method and away you go
<apophis>
web page is unavailbe
<apophis>
:(
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<pontiki>
ending before 10 minutes means you get to field questions, or ask questions
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<OffTheRails>
questions I likely won't be able to answer if I didn't even know to_enum returned an enumerator which had .next defined (thought was part of enumerable)
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<pontiki>
good practice, then
<apophis>
web page is unavailabe when i do localhost:3000
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<apophis>
help?
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<havenwood>
apophis: #rubyonrails
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<apophis>
haven is says i need special serverices or something like that to enter
<OffTheRails>
pontiki, I guess. just a bit nervous. never given a presentation before. only 10 people but...ugh
<havenwood>
apophis: some channels require a registered nick
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<shevy>
these channels don't want you to join them!
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<apophis>
whats login command?
<de_alex>
F__i__l each_cons is a great thx
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<pontiki>
OffTheRails: srsly, if you can give a less than 10 minute talk on Enumerable, and impart good info, that's a plus.
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<pontiki>
i don't know anyone who tends to think such talks are too short :)
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<OffTheRails>
do you think I should cover enumerable vs enumerator? that's confusing for myself so could be helpful (giving talk to less experienced devs)
<pontiki>
nope. just stick with Enumerable for now.
<havenwood>
OffTheRails: I'd suggest being clear which classes mixin Enumerble though.
<pontiki>
when you mix the two, things start to get confusing.
<havenwood>
OffTheRails: Nice to know where all you can expect it.
<pontiki>
that's a great point, havenwood
<OffTheRails>
havenwood, I have a list of core classes that do (array, hash, range, file, dir, struct)
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<OffTheRails>
I did find a few slides on enumerable so will probably follow their lead
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<shevy>
pharohbot it is very simple - either you manage to register, then you can join. or you fail. :)
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<pharohbot>
i never fail
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<shevy>
hehe
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<shevy>
you'll never make it into the rails channel
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<shevy>
hmm
<shevy>
is it cleaner to use methods rather than @ivars directly?
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<shevy>
inside of a given class
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<pontiki>
barewords tend to be more flexible, shevy.
<havenwood>
though instance variables are expressive in their simplicity and no need to go looking for methods
<shevy>
hmm
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<shevy>
I seem to do a lot of sanitizing with some ivars
<havenwood>
happens to be faster to get local variables than instance variables and certainly faster than methods, in the rare case that level of speed matters
<waxjar>
i got a feeling they're homework questions :p
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<shevy>
aah
<shevy>
yeah
<bAmtUser>
waxjar: I'm asking, because this is my first language and some of this stuff is a little vague for someone that doesn't know how to program and is unfamiliar with some of this vocabulary
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<shevy>
how bAmtUser suddenly chimed in with "def text =" out of any context ...
<wasamasa>
bAmtUser: just forget all that bullcrap
<bAmtUser>
shevy: I do that sometime
<bAmtUser>
s
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<havenwood>
bAmtUser: Clojure and Haskell aren't OO for example. Ruby is quite capable.
<shevy>
bAmtUser you should listen to Alan Kay lectures about OOP, he was great when he was young
<bAmtUser>
wasamasa: what do you suggest I focus on?
<bAmtUser>
shevy: looking him up now
<wasamasa>
bAmtUser: writing programs
<shevy>
hehehe
<wasamasa>
bAmtUser: less reading, more doing
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<wasamasa>
bAmtUser: even if the things you'd like to do seem to be difficult
<havenwood>
bAmtUser: too many non-OO langs to list
<wasamasa>
bAmtUser: difficult as in, writing something going over your head, not something that's just taking ages to accomplish (like these amateurs who dream about doing AAA games all alone)
<bAmtUser>
I'm doing. I'm getting a lot of good info, but when I start trying to step up my game nothing wiorks right, but the basic junk
<shevy>
Hanmac I don't really know what that all means
<shevy>
you test for some equality and non equality
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<Hanmac>
shevy yeah, i mean what else can you test for a Color class?
<shevy>
wasamasa actually that is a reason why php got popular
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<shevy>
wasamasa no boundaries in doing crap
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<shevy>
Hanmac hmm... if it is only RGB values then only that. what about hue
<shevy>
alpha channel properties
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<bAmtUser>
Anl/All: Last question, for now. What is ruby good for? I see a lot useless things I can do, but when it gets in to Ruby on Rails, what kind of applications should I expect to make?
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<bAmtUser>
be able to make^
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<shevy>
lol wasamasa
<Hanmac>
shevy alpha does, but hsl does not
<shevy>
the discussion below is even funnier:
<shevy>
"My preferred username would be: ; sudo rm -fr /"
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<shevy>
]MorePudding: Is that how they use rm in France?
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<shevy>
hahaha
<wasamasa>
bAmtUser: ruby users write elegant looking libraries for pretty much anything
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<wasamasa>
bAmtUser: it's a general purpose language
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<wasamasa>
bAmtUser: though I feel it's best for writing scripts to do all kinds of tasks
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<wasamasa>
bAmtUser: it seems to be less suited for number crunching or writing operating system drivers
<shevy>
bAmtUser look man - there are people who use rails, then there are people who use ruby, and then there are people who use both (or none). here on #ruby you will find people who use ruby because it is ruby, the railsers are mostly on #rubyonrails
<shevy>
bAmtUser think of rails more as a whole ecosystem
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<bAmtUser>
shevy: I see. I'll be back around in a few hundred more pages.
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<shevy>
read less books and write more code!
<shevy>
doesn't even matter in which language
<shevy>
start with php :>
<shevy>
you'll switch to another language eventually anyway
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<wasamasa>
nah, php will teach you bad hapits
<wasamasa>
*habits
<benzrf>
php is so bad
<benzrf>
php is so bad it's awful
<benzrf>
php is so bad it's awful don't use it
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<bAmtUser>
shevy: not sure how to do that without knowing the syntax, operators, etc...
<tewlz>
php isn't any worse than javascript and we use that all the time. You can use bad langs and do good things with them.
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<havenwood>
shevy: "The use of COBOL cripples the mind..." ~Dijkstra
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<bAmtUser>
I did write out a functional factorial calculator using my own code.
<tewlz>
'I get quoted out of context a lot' ~Dijkstra
<bAmtUser>
Tried making a premutaion, but that never worked
<havenwood>
shevy: Or: It is practically impossible to teach good programming to students that have had a prior exposure to BASIC: as potential programmers they are mentally mutilated beyond hope of regeneration.
<bAmtUser>
My Grandfather was on the time that wrote basic
<tewlz>
wasn't Gates first language BASIC....
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<Hanmac>
my first programming language was Q(uick)Basic on a 386 ... now i feel old
<tewlz>
probably most of the best programmers alive today have used BASIC extensively
<VanillaGoat_>
My first language was Ruby 1.9 on an old Core 2 Quad, those were the days
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<de_alex>
ruby feels like sex after you learned python
<tewlz>
it was at one point the most popular language of its time, after all, but apparently learning BASIC means you can't code well
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<havenwood>
shevy: think this is true?: "PHP is a minor evil perpetrated and created by incompetent amateurs, whereas Perl is a great and insidious evil, perpetrated by skilled but perverted professionals.” ~Ribbens
<tewlz>
VanillaGoat_: what was that, like three months ago?
<bAmtUser>
havenwood: If it's so bad why are these languages so popular?
<VanillaGoat_>
tewlz: closer to 12. kids today wouldn't understand
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<tewlz>
VanillaGoat_: LOL
<bAmtUser>
Kids today seem to only know about cell phones
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<havenwood>
bAmtUser: Dijkstra had a way with words. :P
<tewlz>
you're so retro man. Teach me your ways
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<wasamasa>
bAmtUser: tell me why bigmacs are popular
<sarkis>
hey all if i have a strings like "foo,bar,baz" and "foo, bar, baz" whats the best way to split it into a list/array?
<tewlz>
wasamasa: I can tell you that. They are awesome.
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<bAmtUser>
I have no idea I use Fedora and Windows
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<sarkis>
var="foo,bar, baz" var.split(',') will get me ["foo", "bar", " baz"] that space sneaks in :(
* wasamasa
used to flip burgers
<de_alex>
"Hello ruby programmer".split()
<tewlz>
sarkis: kill all whitespace then use split
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<sterns>
hello all, I've written a ruby script that works with the nokogiri gem. The script works fine from the command line. Now I'm trying to get this same script running within a rails project and Rails can't find the gem. I get : cannot load such file -- nokogiri -- T\his project was created before I installed nokogiri, is there something I need to do to get this gem into my rails project?
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<havenwood>
sterns: Add Nokogiri to you Gemfile and rerun `bundle`.
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<sterns>
Is that done by running 'gem nokogiri'?
<ferr>
If I have date = Date.today variable at index page, how do test it through RSpec?
<ferr>
I get undefined local variable error
<zlude>
using just ruby can i check if a url is a domain or subdomain?
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<havenwood>
sterns: Adding the line `gem 'nokogiri'` to your Gemfile file in the project root directory.
<sterns>
havenwood: thank you! I did that, it shows that nokogiri was added to the bundle. My app is still giving same error, do I need to restart the server or something?
<havenwood>
sterns: did you run?: bundle
<sterns>
havenwood: yes
<havenwood>
sterns: and what command are you then running that fails?
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<havenwood>
sterns: bundle exec ...?
<havenwood>
sterns: or if not prefixing bundle exec, are you using rubygems-bundler? in other words, are you running the command within the context of your bundle?
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<benzrf>
lmao haskell has had stream transducers for what .... 10000000 years? B)
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<havenwood>
benzrf: i think it's kind of interesting that they've implemented the same transducers interface for Clojure, Java, Javascript and Ruby so far though
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<havenwood>
benzrf: Rich Hickey is making transducers of us all!
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<benzrf>
hella
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<benzrf>
i saw him in person B)
<havenwood>
benzrf: :O
<benzrf>
when they announced transit
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<Hanmac>
benzrf also interested in a GUI toolkit gem? (yeah i know i need to add more stuff but thats the very first gem push)
<NullEntity>
I'm trying to fix some stupid function in my editor. It's wrapping around the selected text with code "input.gsub(/[\$`\\]/, '\\1').gsub(/([ \t]*)(.+)/, '\1<${1:li}>\2</${1:li}>')". The problem is attributes in the opening tag are being copied into the closing tag. I can't figure out what the hell ${1:li} means otherwise I could probably get it. What does that do?
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<NullEntity>
it's a script in my html editor. If I try to do <a href="index.html"> it'll close it with </a href="index.html"> instead of </a> because of that regex
<insaneinside>
huh, not related, but that first gsub call looks funny. You're replacing any instances of dollar, backtick, or backslash with "backslash one"...
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<NullEntity>
it's a script bundled with Aptana's editor. Let me try that out lol