#ruby on 2015-06-30 — irc logs at freenode.irclog.whitequark.org

2015-06-05 22:15 jhass changed the topic of #ruby to: Welcome new users migrating from #ruby-lang! || Rules & more: http://ruby-community.com || Ruby 2.2.2; 2.1.6; 2.0.0-p645: https://ruby-lang.org || Paste >3 lines of text on https://gist.github.com || log @ http://irclog.whitequark.org/ruby/

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00:31 <ght> Question: I am having one hell of a time getting API calls to a provider that uses XMLRPC formatting to work. I can successfully retreive the "code", use the code to get an initial authorize_key, then use that authorize key to attain a new one and new refresh_key. That's all working properly, and all with RestClient.

00:31 <ght> I've called them successfully to this provider for years using their legacy API and xmlrpc/client.

00:31 <ght> My question is, does anyone have an example of calling any API method to any provider that uses oauth2 and xmlrpc, using RestClient or XMLRPC::client.new2() or .new()?

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00:57 <brendan-> hi ya'll, if i need to execute a shell command via a ruby script (iptables addition), etc. what would be the recommended method or gem to use?

00:58 <brendan-> i would like to capture the output & the exit status

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00:58 <brendan-> to validate that it was successful

00:58 <al2o3-cr> brendan-: open3

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01:00 <brendan-> al2o3-cr: gotcha

01:00 <brendan-> ty

01:00 <al2o3-cr> brendan-: Open3.popen3(command) {| i,o,e,t| if t.exitstatus.zero? ...}

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01:00 <brendan-> gotcha

01:00 <brendan-> awesome

01:00 <brendan-> ty again

01:01 <al2o3-cr> brendan-: np

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01:01 <al2o3-cr> or capture2/3

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01:01 <al2o3-cr> depending on what you wanna do :)

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01:02 <al2o3-cr> ?Open3#popen

01:02 <ruboto> I don't know anything about Open3

01:02 <al2o3-cr> ?Open3#popen3

01:02 <ruboto> I don't know anything about Open3

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01:08 <TiKo> whAT IS ruby?

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01:09 <Ropeney> a nice rock

01:09 <havenwood> TiKo: A programming language.

01:09 <TiKo> [havenwood] is similar to?

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01:11 <havenwood> TiKo: "Ruby is an interpreted scripting language for quick and easy object-oriented programming. It has many features to

01:11 <havenwood> process text files and to do system management tasks (like in Perl). It is simple, straight-forward, and extensible."

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01:11 <havenwood> TiKo: ^ Check: man ruby

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01:12 <al2o3-cr> havenwood: what if ruby is not installed or he/she is using windows?

01:13 <havenwood> TiKo: Here're some brief overviews of Ruby from the perspective of different languages: https://www.ruby-lang.org/en/documentation/ruby-from-other-languages/

01:13 <havenwood> al2o3-cr: hem?

01:13 <al2o3-cr> havenwood: hem?

01:13 <TiKo> [havenwood] thanls

01:13 <havenwood> al2o3-cr: What if who is installing Ruby?

01:13 <TiKo> [havenwood] thanks

01:14 <al2o3-cr> havenwood: i didn't say installing

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01:14 <havenwood> al2o3-cr: I just don't follow. What if Ruby isn't installed?

01:14 <al2o3-cr> havenwood: man ruby

01:14 <havenwood> al2o3-cr: ahhh, gotcha

01:15 <al2o3-cr> easily done :P

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02:17 <twistedpixels> can someone ELI5 gsub vs gsub!

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02:18 <sevenseacat> gsub! is in place and will modify whatever you call it on. gsub will return the modified value.

02:18 <C0deMaver1ck> this is true for most methods that end with a bang

02:18 <sevenseacat> this is explained in the docs.

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02:18 <twistedpixels> oh okay, that makes sense thank you!

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02:28 <govt> I was watching John Worthington of Perl 6 notoriety the other day and he was talking about designing method-first and letting the classes be derived from the flow of method calls. I'm having trouble with OO design principles, i can program just fine but I don't know how to THINK in oo. How do I get past this?

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02:29 <sevenseacat> the simple answer is probably 'practice'

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02:29 <sevenseacat> I have a hard time not thinking in OO (which makes learning functional programming fun)

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02:31 <govt> i love fp, but when I look at other peoples code i just feel lost sometimes and I dont know how to write my code so that when other people read it they dont feel lost

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02:33 <sevenseacat> I think thats a bit natural with any kind of evolved design - the first version was probably simple enough for anyone to jump in and understand, but as the functionality and complexity grows, it naturally gets harder to understand

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02:37 <govt> thats tru

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03:27 <meatchicken> Easy way to pair each array element with every other? [1,2,3,4,5] -> 1*2,1*3,1*4,1*5,2*3,2*4 etc

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03:27 <meatchicken> what is this "equation" called

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03:29 <mozzarella> >> [1, 2, 3, 4, 5].combination(2).to_a

03:29 <ruboto> mozzarella # => [[1, 2], [1, 3], [1, 4], [1, 5], [2, 3], [2, 4], [2, 5], [3, 4], [3, 5], [4, 5]] (https://eval.in/389614)

03:30 <mozzarella> meatchicken: ^

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03:30 <sevenseacat> oh nice.

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03:32 <meatchicken> mozzarella, nicely done

03:32 <meatchicken> Thanks :)

03:32 <mozzarella> np

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05:34 <grey_beard> So anyone feel like talking about sort_by?

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05:34 <jfarmer> grey_beard What about it? :)(

05:35 <jfarmer> ()()()( parens party

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05:36 <jfarmer> grey_beard ?!?!?

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05:36 <jfarmer> you tease

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05:37 <grey_beard> I don't quit understand the arguments part. For example frequencies.sort_by { |k, v| v } was given, what exactly is the |k,v| v indicating

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05:37 <Aeyrix> key, value

05:37 <jfarmer> grey_beard Can you articulate your understanding of blocks?

05:38 <Aeyrix> >> example_hash = {"key": "value"}; p example_hash['key']

05:38 <ruboto> Aeyrix # => nil ...check link for more (https://eval.in/389649)

05:38 <jfarmer> grey_beard Aeyrix's answer isn't wrong, but don't take it to mean there is something special about the names "k" and "v" there

05:38 <Aeyrix> lmao thanks ruboto

05:38 <sphex> doesn't it have a single argument?

05:38 <havenwood> >> {aim: true, another: false}.map { |_, v| v }

05:38 <havenwood> >> {aim: true, another: false}.map { |k, _| k }

05:38 <ruboto> havenwood # => [true, false] (https://eval.in/389651)

05:38 <ruboto> havenwood # => [:aim, :another] (https://eval.in/389652)

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05:38 <grey_beard> Well so far the only blocks I've learned are code blocks.

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05:39 <jfarmer> grey_beard Can you give an example of what you'd call a "code block" in Ruby?

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05:40 <jfarmer> grey_beard Use a service like gist.github.com to type/paste in some code and highlight the part you'd identify as a "code block."

05:40 <grey_beard> { } and the do and end delimiters.

05:40 <jfarmer> grey_beard Ok, great.

05:41 <jfarmer> grey_beard You've seen something like "[1,2,3].each { |num| puts(num) }" yeah?

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05:41 <jfarmer> As in, that code doesn't make you go "WTF?!"

05:41 <baweaver> it makes me go wtf

05:41 <baweaver> parens on puts?

05:41 <baweaver> how could you ;-;

05:41 <jfarmer> heresy

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05:42 <grey_beard> Yes I can understand what happens.

05:42 <jfarmer> grey_beard Ok, and the "{ |num| ....}" bit is what you'd call a "code block"?

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05:43 <grey_beard> Yes from the tutorial I've read.

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05:43 <jfarmer> Part of what I'm trying to do is make sure we're talking about the same thing. Apologies if it seems pedantic, but it's easy to talk about something for 15 minutes only to realize we're talking about different things. :)

05:43 <jfarmer> grey_beard What role is "{ |num| puts(num) }" playing in that chunk of code?

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05:44 <jfarmer> In your mind, I mean? What picture do you have in your head?

05:44 <jfarmer> grey_beard If this doesn't seem like I'm answering your question it's because your question doesn't really have anything to do with sort_by *per se*

05:45 <grey_beard> It's fine my understanding it pretty basic if its interchangeable with parameters or arguments my apologies I don't want any ambiguity from using the wrong language.

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05:45 <jfarmer> grey_beard No, don't take me as critiquing your usage.

05:45 <baweaver> Ox0dea: do you come bearing gifts of perlisms?

05:45 <jfarmer> Your usage is fine, although you'd just call it a "block" and not a "code block"

05:46 <Ox0dea> baweaver: Alas, I've come only to assist grey_beard in his understanding of blocks.

05:46 <jfarmer> haha

05:46 <Ox0dea> >> %w[Ruby is awesome].sort_by { |word| word.length }

05:46 <ruboto> Ox0dea # => ["is", "Ruby", "awesome"] (https://eval.in/389661)

05:46 <Ox0dea> grey_beard: Does that example help you get a better sense of what's going on?

05:46 <baweaver> >> !!["is", "Ruby", "awesome"]

05:46 <ruboto> baweaver # => true (https://eval.in/389662)

05:46 <jfarmer> :|

05:46 <grey_beard> Well it gets iterated through each string/intergar whatever and put in the placeholder num then num is displayed.

05:47 <Ox0dea> ...

05:47 <Ox0dea> Let's try this again.

05:47 <Ox0dea> >> %w[Ruby is awesome].sort_by { |word| word.length }

05:47 <ruboto> Ox0dea # => ["is", "Ruby", "awesome"] (https://eval.in/389663)

05:47 <baweaver> Ox0dea: wait wait

05:47 * Ox0dea waits.

05:47 <baweaver> they're referring to something above

05:47 <baweaver> "22:42 jfarmer: grey_beard Ok, and the "{ |num| ....}" bit is what you'd call a "code block"?"

05:47 <baweaver> { |num| puts(num) }

05:47 <baweaver> specifically

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05:48 <jfarmer> grey_beard What baweaver said. For example, what would happen if instead I wrote "[1,2,3].each { |num| puts(num * 2) }"

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05:48 <jfarmer> How does me changing the block affect how "[1,2,3].each" behaves?

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05:49 <Ox0dea> (It doesn't, technically.)

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05:49 <jfarmer> grr

05:49 <baweaver> grey_beard: another question, what languages do you know well?

05:49 <baweaver> hehe

05:49 <baweaver> >> [1,2,3].each { |a| a + 1 }

05:49 <ruboto> baweaver # => [1, 2, 3] (https://eval.in/389666)

05:49 <jfarmer> that's..

05:49 <baweaver> >> [1,2,3].map { |a| a + 1 }

05:49 <jfarmer> man alive folks

05:49 <ruboto> baweaver # => [2, 3, 4] (https://eval.in/389667)

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05:49 <jfarmer> you are full of distracting and potentially confusing examples

05:49 <grey_beard> Know well none, I have dipped into Perl and Python, but I'm actually serious about ruby

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05:50 <sphex> grey_beard: are you unconfused yet?!

05:50 <Ox0dea> Right?

05:50 <baweaver> so base case then

05:50 <jfarmer> grey_beard Here's the deal in 3 sentences.

05:50 <baweaver> http://learnrubythehardway.org/book/ - this might help later as well

05:50 <jfarmer> 1. Blocks are a special kind of method argument in Ruby and every method can accept one, even if they don't do anything with it.

05:50 <Ox0dea> jfarmer: I think the #puts example is not great; it involves IO and doesn't really demonstrate how blocks are great for customizing behavior.

05:51 <jfarmer> gah

05:51 <Ox0dea> I'll leave you to it, then.

05:51 <jfarmer> Ox0dea Alas, I'm constrained by the format of IRC.

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05:52 <jfarmer> 2. Inside, methods can call the block (almost as if the block were a method itself)

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05:52 <grey_beard> Well maybe I backtrack and reformulate my question. So from what others said frequencies.sort_by { |k, v| v } the k and v indiciate |key, value| value, and there is nothing special about the k,v they are just convenient letters.

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05:53 <jfarmer> 3. The analogy is that if a method looks like "def whatever(a, b, c) ... end" then blocks look like "{ |a, b, c| ... }"

05:53 <sphex> sort_by only passes one argument to its block though

05:53 <jfarmer> grey_beard The role a block plays in the overall code depends on the method you're passing the block to.

05:53 <jfarmer> sphex Stop.

05:54 <jfarmer> These technical details are correct but really confusing.

05:54 <jfarmer> grey_beard Do you know how to iterate over a Hash in Ruby?

05:54 <jfarmer> Using each?

05:54 <sphex> uh. I'm sorry, I'll guess I'll hold my comments for the end. :p

05:54 <grey_beard> So if I understand the frequencies.sort_by { |indicates key, indicates value| this tell to sort by key or value }

05:54 <jfarmer> grey_beard If you can follow (1), (2), and (3) of what I just said then Ox0dea's is the one to look at now.

05:54 <Aeyrix> #ruby helping new programmers learn Ruby in a nutshell.

05:54 <jfarmer> grey_beard Stop

05:54 <jfarmer> grey_beard Hold up.

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05:55 <jfarmer> grey_beard Let's understand a simpler example first.

05:55 <jfarmer> There are three moving parts here: (1) the block, (2) sort_by, (3) and the fact that you're calling sort_by on a Hash

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05:55 <jfarmer> If you're not comfortable with (1) and (2) then it will be easiest to understand them if we understand how sort_by works with something like an Array

05:55 <jfarmer> Using Ox0dea's example:

05:56 <jfarmer> >> ["Ruby", "is", "awesome"].sort_by { |word| word.length }

05:56 <ruboto> jfarmer # => ["is", "Ruby", "awesome"] (https://eval.in/389670)

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05:56 <jfarmer> Or, to highlight the fact that the parameter name is just a placeholder:

05:56 <grey_beard> Okay I apolagize my irc doesnt automatically scroll down so I'm constantly scrolling down.

05:56 <jfarmer> >> ["Ruby", "is", "awesome"].sort_by { |waffles| waffles.length }

05:56 <ruboto> jfarmer # => ["is", "Ruby", "awesome"] (https://eval.in/389671)

05:56 <jfarmer> Oh. Really? That's....

05:57 <jfarmer> Well, that makes IRC hard.

05:57 <grey_beard> Yes it does, but im following you now.

05:57 <jfarmer> grey_beardy Blocks allow us to pass in behavior (encapsulated as a block) into another method. In the case of sort_by, the block is used to determine how to sort each thing in whatever collection you're trying to sort.

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05:59 <grey_beard> So from your example it assumes you want to sort into ascending order?

05:59 <jfarmer> grey_beard Yes.

06:00 <jfarmer> Just like:

06:00 <grey_beard> So that is the default and you would need to change the block if you wanted descending.

06:00 <jfarmer> >>> [10, 7, -12, 3].sort

06:00 <ruboto> jfarmer # => /tmp/execpad-b4af4cd81bb8/source-b4af4cd81bb8:2: syntax error, unexpected '>' ...check link for more (https://eval.in/389673)

06:00 <jfarmer> Oops

06:00 <jfarmer> >> [10, 7, -12, 3].sort

06:00 <ruboto> jfarmer # => [-12, 3, 7, 10] (https://eval.in/389674)

06:00 <jfarmer> grey_beard Also correct.

06:01 <jfarmer> I can't really think of a language where sort order isn't ascending by default. That's a pretty universal thing.

06:01 <jfarmer> I think of it less as "sorting" and more as "ordering according to the usual order."

06:01 <jfarmer> And numbers are ordered by their order (left to right) on the number line

06:01 <grey_beard> Well makes sense now that I know it assumes ascending.

06:02 <jfarmer> grey_beard Great.

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06:02 <jfarmer> So, in general:

06:02 <grey_beard> Well thank you kindly for all the help everybody.

06:02 <jfarmer> 1. Methods that accept a block do so to allow the programmer to "pass in" custom behavior

06:03 <jfarmer> 2. How that behavior is used depends on the method; in the case of "each" it's used to determine what is to be done with each thing in the collection; in the case of "sort_by" it's used to determine the value by which to sort each thing in the collection

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06:03 <jfarmer> 3. When you're dealing with a Hash, the block will be given each (key, value) pair as an argument

06:04 <jfarmer> And I'd say like 80% of the time Ruby developers label the arguments something like "{ |k, v| ... stuff ...}"

06:04 <jfarmer> grey_beard If you want a big list of similar methods, check out http://ruby-doc.org/core-2.2.2/Enumerable.html

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06:05 <jfarmer> All of those methods work on any Enumerable thing in Ruby, which includes Arrays, Hashes, and a few other things, too.

06:05 <jfarmer> (And almost all take a block of some kind.)

06:05 <jfarmer> the end (I hope)

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06:05 <jfarmer> tune in again next week, same bat time, same bat channel

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06:06 <grey_beard> Oh I see , I think because it looked foreign compared to the one I was being shown for hashes it threw me off.

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06:06 <jfarmer> grey_beard Indeed!

06:06 <jfarmer> Be sensitive to that as you're learning.

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06:07 <jfarmer> Beginners think that things which look different are different.

06:07 <jfarmer> (In any subject)

06:07 <jfarmer> Easier to catch yourself if you're aware that it's going on, though.

06:08 <sphex> jfarmer: are you an actual teacher?

06:08 <jfarmer> sphex Yes.

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06:09 <sphex> is there going to be a test?

06:09 <jfarmer> no

06:09 <sphex> makes sense

06:09 <jfarmer> Although, funny thing: when you try to build a learning environment without tests, it doesn't take long for students to demand them.

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06:10 <jfarmer> "Ugh, fine, I'll give you a test."

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06:13 <jfarmer> grey_beard If you want a test, here it is: go through each method in the list of methods on the Enumerable page I linked to above. For each method, look at an example of its usage but don't read the description. Make an educated guess about what the particular method does and write it down (actually write it). Read the description and compare your answer to what's written on that page.

06:13 <jfarmer> DIY testing

06:13 <jfarmer> college board, hire me

06:14 <jfarmer> grey_beard That's a good way to both familiarize yourself with all the Enumerable methods and to get comfortable with the (technical) language used to describe what they do.

06:14 <jfarmer> The key part is the comparison between your own thoughts and what's on the page, though, so don't just read the descriptions and call it a day. :)

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06:15 <jfarmer> grey_beard Also, here are some exercises you might find useful: https://github.com/codeunion/ruby-exercises

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06:15 <jfarmer> (warning, mild self promotion)

06:15 <grey_beard> I will, but it will lead me to more questions probably and back here as well.

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06:15 <jfarmer> grey_beard That's good.

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06:15 <sphex> jfarmer: do you teach ruby a lot? is it in a public school? (just wondering where and how ruby gets taught "formally" like that)

06:15 <jfarmer> Better to be confused and have too many questions than be confused and have too few.

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06:15 <jfarmer> sphex Yes and yes (a little).

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06:16 <jfarmer> sphex I volunteer through some after-school programs to teach at public schools.

06:16 <jfarmer> I also make my living teaching it (slash, programming in general), mostly to adults.

06:16 <sphex> ah ok

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06:17 <jfarmer> I wouldn't call how I teach very formal, at least relative to most classrooms. A lot of my public school students are at a loss at first about what to do.

06:18 <jfarmer> After a few fundamentals are shored up, I just try to maximize the amount of feedback they get on their code. "Make a plan, code it as best as you can, get feedback quickly, incorporate, repeat."

06:19 <jfarmer> "But what am I supposed to do?"

06:19 <sphex> prolly impatient to make their killer rails app too

06:19 <jfarmer> Yes, some students for sure.

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06:19 <sphex> "Alright, blocks, got it. done. Is this how I geolocate and mashup?"

06:20 <jfarmer> Haha yes.

06:20 <jfarmer> If I'm doing a good job the dots are connected, but some students won't give an inch.

06:20 <jfarmer> I'll say this is more true of adults than children.

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06:22 <sphex> I'm guessing most of these students are fairly new to programming? pretty good choice of first language, eh. :p

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06:23 <jfarmer> The public school students often have a little prior exposure.

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06:23 <jfarmer> The most common languages seem to be Python and Java.

06:23 <jfarmer> (Largely because AP Computer Science uses Java.)

06:23 <jfarmer> You do see fun mistakes from students coming from Java at first, things like...

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06:24 <jfarmer> "def Fixnum add(Fixnum x, Fixnum y) ... end"

06:24 <baweaver> Still of the opinion Java is horrid

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06:24 <baweaver> though that looks like Scala

06:24 <sphex> baweaver: my school had Visual Basic. I don't think I'll ever overcome the early brain damages. :/

06:24 <jfarmer> I'm "whatever" about Java as a production language, but I think it's awful as a teaching language.

06:24 <baweaver> def add(x:Int, y:Int):Int = x + y

06:25 <jfarmer> The main thing you want to get out of students' head early on is the idea that learning to program is like learning a bunch of magic spells called "programs."

06:25 <jfarmer> And an experienced programmer is just someone who's learned 10,000 magic spells or whatever.

06:26 fromthedepths1 has joined #ruby

06:26 <jfarmer> But right off the bat, Java is filled with things like "public static void main(...)"

06:26 <sphex> hrm. supposedly that'

06:26 <sphex> oops. that's how they teach it in India

06:26 <jfarmer> "Don't worry about those things for now. *waves hands*"

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06:27 njs126 has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds]

06:27 <jfarmer> Some students do have an insane capability for memorizing that stuff.

06:27 rrichardsr3 has joined #ruby

06:27 intyl has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]

06:27 <jfarmer> (Often the ones who struggle the most, in my experience.)

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06:28 <jfarmer> The quantity and detail at which they can memorize things blows my mind.

06:28 <baweaver> If I had to pick a learning language it'd probably be lisp

06:28 <baweaver> or scheme

06:28 <baweaver> eliminate all concerns of syntax

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06:28 <Ox0dea> MIT agreed with you for a long time.

06:28 <baweaver> just focus on how to build from there.

06:28 <baweaver> now they do python

06:28 <baweaver> SICP

06:28 <jfarmer> My alma mater uses Scheme as their intro language.

06:29 <jfarmer> (University of Chicago)

06:29 <sevenseacat> at university we covered C, Haskell, Java and Prolog, in that order. mostly C though.

06:29 last_staff has quit [Quit: last_staff]

06:29 <jfarmer> But the CS department is basically an extension of the math department

06:29 <shevy> baweaver but you have to use a lot of () in lisp!

06:29 qiukun has quit [Quit: qiukun]

06:30 <jfarmer> hah

06:30 <baweaver> the people who care about that are ironically from Java

06:30 mcclurmc has quit [Remote host closed the connection]

06:30 <baweaver> where they have a lot worse syntax barriers to deal with routinely

06:30 <sevenseacat> I also did electives that dabbled in PHP and Python. woo.

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06:33 <MrJiks> Hello there, could you check the response of this url and see if you recognize any specific data format?

06:33 <MrJiks> http://erail.in/rail/getTrains.aspx?Station_From=ERN&Station_To=TVC&DataSource=0&Language=0&Cache=true

06:33 darlinger has joined #ruby

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06:33 <MrJiks> I am trying to use this endpont to get the data; the data returns seems to be too weird.

06:33 postmodern has joined #ruby

06:33 <baweaver> post the data in a gist

06:34 <jfarmer> oh my god

06:34 <MrJiks> Sure, hold on.

06:34 <baweaver> most members here are a bit averse to strange links

06:34 <MrJiks> baweaver: sure.

06:34 <jfarmer> MrJiks Well, I'm a brave person and went there and viewed the source

06:34 <MrJiks> jfarmer: and?

06:34 s2013 has joined #ruby

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06:35 <jfarmer> I'm terrified

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06:35 <MrJiks> Here is the data: http://pastebin.com/k8iLW3RK

06:35 <ruboto> MrJiks, we in #ruby do not like pastebin.com, I reposted your paste to gist for you: https://gist.github.com/010c0b82e22df19fd0fd

06:35 <ruboto> pastebin.com loads slowly for most, has ads which are distracting and has terrible formatting.

06:35 <jfarmer> haha

06:35 <jfarmer> CAN'T DO ANYTHING RIGHT, GEEZ MrJiks!

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06:35 <baweaver> I want to say CSV

06:35 <jfarmer> MrJiks But sorry, no, the format looks totally unfamiliar (and slightly insane) to me

06:36 <MrJiks> baweaver: ya! But what are those ~?

06:36 <baweaver> formatting shenanigans

06:36 <MrJiks> It looks like they did something custom!!

06:36 <jfarmer> Yeah, it might be a generic "delimiter separated value" sort of thing.

06:36 mister_solo has joined #ruby

06:36 <baweaver> probably

06:36 JohnBat26 has joined #ruby

06:36 <MrJiks> jfarmer: But it looks mized.

06:36 <MrJiks> *mixed

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06:37 <shevy> maized!

06:37 codecop has joined #ruby

06:37 <baweaver> shevy: well aren't you corny tonight

06:37 <MrJiks> If its helpful, have a look at the site: http://erail.in/

06:37 mikecmpbll has joined #ruby

06:37 <jfarmer> MrJiks I agree it doesn't look quite right, but that was my first reaction.

06:37 <jfarmer> But then you try to play "spot the columns" and I don't really see it.

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06:38 <MrJiks> Try "ERN" and "TVC" for the from and to field to get the data

06:38 <MrJiks> in the site.

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06:39 <MrJiks> I just don't understand why people do such text formating!

06:40 <Ox0dea> Job security.

06:40 <baweaver> ^

06:40 <jfarmer> haha

06:40 <MrJiks> Ox0dea: :)

06:40 gauke has joined #ruby

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06:40 <MrJiks> I will have a dirty feel if I did something like this

06:40 <baweaver> Could always ping them and ask what the devil it is

06:40 s2013 has joined #ruby

06:40 <jfarmer> MrJiks I had a job once where I had to interact with back-end data from multiple major retailers and it was a similar mess.

06:40 <baweaver> welcome to enterprise quality

06:40 amclain has quit [Quit: Leaving]

06:41 <jfarmer> Every retailer had their own arbitrary text data format.

06:41 <MrJiks> baweaver: but what the hell, right? How can someone do this unless they intentionally planned to make it dirty?

06:41 <baweaver> you'd like to believe the best in people

06:41 s2013 has quit [Client Quit]

06:41 <baweaver> but there are some who should never be allowed to program

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06:41 <jfarmer> MrJiks The faulty assumption is likely that the person doing this was thinking about it that deeply. :)

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06:42 <MrJiks> jfarmer: Haven't these people heard of JSON or is it intentionally done like this?

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06:42 <jfarmer> This is likely older than JSON, but regardless, I just imagine it never entering their heads.

06:42 <jfarmer> It was more like "Oh, need some format, ok, I need to make a format."

06:42 <jfarmer> That's how I imagine it at least.

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06:43 <MrJiks> jfarmer: why does it need deep thought? If have to make an interface, I normally go and see whats there out there that needs to connect to this; isn't thats the simplest thing someone can think?

06:43 <baweaver> probably a COBOL or RPG column dump

06:43 <baweaver> I hate to say it, but welcome to programming

06:43 <MrJiks> Oh okay! baweaver thats exactly what I was thinking!

06:43 <baweaver> I'd have to remember the formatting there

06:43 <jfarmer> MrJiks Likely no.

06:43 <baweaver> check their job postins

06:44 <jfarmer> Is the answer to your question

06:44 <baweaver> they're using asp for that

06:44 <MrJiks> I cannot imagine someone invented a format for this.

06:44 zacstewart has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]

06:44 <baweaver> so they at least use .NET

06:44 <jfarmer> MrJiks Well, more I meant they just do whatever is right in front of their face.

06:44 Carnage\ has joined #ruby

06:44 <jfarmer> "I'll use Ruby's native serialization format! Solved."

06:44 hahuang65 has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds]

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06:44 <MrJiks> baweaver: this should some data dump/serialization.

06:44 <jfarmer> next

06:44 athos_diddy has quit [Remote host closed the connection]

06:45 <baweaver> though I've seen programmers bad enough that they'll do that

06:45 <MrJiks> Its cannot be something that they invented; thats what I feel.

06:45 <jfarmer> It does seem particularly byzantine, yeah

06:45 <MrJiks> baweaver: really? You mean 1/2 year experienced ones?

06:45 <baweaver> never underestimate a sufficiently lazy and bad programmer

06:45 <baweaver> I've seen a guy with 20+ years experience

06:45 <baweaver> couldn't reverse a string in ruby

06:45 athos_diddy has joined #ruby

06:45 <MrJiks> baweaver: this is not about laziness. Its jus dump.

06:45 karols has joined #ruby

06:46 <MrJiks> baweaver: what?

06:46 <baweaver> you'd like to think that

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06:46 <MrJiks> 20 years experinece developer who doesn't know how to reverse a string?

06:46 <baweaver> yep

06:46 <MrJiks> *dumb

06:46 <baweaver> without the reverse function, granted

06:46 <baweaver> but still

06:47 solars has joined #ruby

06:47 <baweaver> gave the same problem to an intern candidate

06:47 <baweaver> took him 2 minutes

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06:47 <jfarmer> It would be amazing if this were some dump format from a cira-1982 IBM mainframe

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06:48 <baweaver> http://www.simotime.com/cblcsv01.htm

06:48 <baweaver> COBOL probably

06:49 karols has joined #ruby

06:49 <Ox0dea> Is properly reversing a string considered O(0.5n)?

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06:50 <baweaver> I won't hold pointers against them

06:50 fabrice31 has joined #ruby

06:50 <baweaver> for a ruby / js job that is

06:50 <MrJiks> baweaver: so you mean to say that I may be able to find amble 10+ year guys who may stumble at FizzBuzz?

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06:50 <baweaver> yep

06:51 <baweaver> I've interviewed some

06:51 <baweaver> they exist

06:51 <MrJiks> baweaver: thats quite surprising.

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06:51 * Ox0dea doesn't know how to implement FizzBuzz. :/

06:51 <baweaver> ......

06:51 <Ox0dea> ^_^

06:51 <Nilium> ಠ_ಠ

06:51 <jfarmer> Ox0dea We're here for you

06:51 <Radar> 'sifn't

06:51 mcclurmc has quit [Remote host closed the connection]

06:51 <Nilium> I almost answered your O(n) question

06:51 <Radar> You're the guy who finds all the weird Ruby syntax!

06:51 <Nilium> Then decided you're crazy

06:51 <jfarmer> haha

06:51 <MrJiks> baweaver: I used to think that test was exagerating too much..

06:51 <baweaver> you forget who wrote that behemoth last night

06:51 karols has quit [Max SendQ exceeded]

06:51 <Radar> You could work it out in O(n) time

06:51 <jfarmer> O(troll)

06:52 <Ox0dea> Radar: But you only need to iterate to the halfway point if you know the string's length.

06:52 karols has joined #ruby

06:52 <baweaver> >> _=$$/$$;__=_-_;@_=_+_;$_=@_+_;$__=@_+$_;$-_=$__*$_;@__=''<<$-_*($__+$_)+@_;$___=''<<$-_*$__-$__<<$-_*($__+@_)<<@__<<@__;@___=''<<$-_*$__-$_*$_<<$-_*($__+$_)-$_<<@__<<@__;(___=->____{$.+=_;____<<($.%$-_==__ ?$___+@___:$.%$_==__ ?$___:$.%$__==__ ?@___:$.);$.<($__*@_)**@_?___[____]:____})[[]]

06:52 <ruboto> baweaver # => [1, 2, "Fizz", 4, "Buzz", "Fizz", 7, 8, "Fizz", "Buzz", 11, "Fizz", 13, 14, "FizzBuzz", 16, 17, "Fiz ...check link for more (https://eval.in/389703)

06:52 <jfarmer> baweaver You're hired!

06:52 <Radar> SACRE BLEU

06:52 <MrJiks> How do you do that message? "Ox0dea doesn't know how to implement FizzBuzz. :/"

06:52 <shevy> CORDON BLEU!!!

06:52 <MrJiks> In IRC i mean

06:52 <Radar> MrJiks: /me thing

06:52 <baweaver> that was Ox0dea's from last night

06:52 <jfarmer> MrJiks Type "/me blah de blah" without the quotes

06:52 <shevy> he was drunk

06:52 karols has quit [Max SendQ exceeded]

06:52 * MrJiks how?

06:52 <jfarmer> BEHOLD

06:52 <Ox0dea> /me doesn't work for me.

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06:53 <shevy> lol

06:53 <baweaver> space helps

06:53 haraoka has joined #ruby

06:53 * MrJiks MrJiks found it!

06:53 karols has joined #ruby

06:53 <shevy> twice the name, twice the fame

06:53 <MrJiks> shevy: ;P

06:53 <shevy> :)

06:53 karols has quit [Max SendQ exceeded]

06:54 <_mh_> baweaver: This little 'FizzBuzz' contraption of yours is still a little frightening to behold.

06:54 <baweaver> but seriously, I've interviewed interns who are insanely good and seasoned veterans who have no idea how to program

06:54 <baweaver> it's Ox0deas

06:54 karols has joined #ruby

06:54 <_mh_> oh, wrong attribution then.

06:54 <baweaver> http://irclog.whitequark.org/ruby/2015-06-29#13259662;

06:54 <_mh_> thx

06:54 <baweaver> see the original fallout fun

06:55 karols has quit [Max SendQ exceeded]

06:55 <baweaver> https://gist.github.com/baweaver/88bbbc1a3e3b5dee2610 - and me trying to grok it

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06:56 <_mh_> baweaver: that part I've read yesterday, that's why I assumed it was yours.

06:56 <_mh_> Ox0dea: one hell of a creation.

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06:56 <Ox0dea> I'm ashamed of it.

06:56 <baweaver> I'd get bored before I finished something like that

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06:56 <Aeyrix> Radar: how busy are you

06:57 sandstrom has joined #ruby

06:57 <Aeyrix> like on a scale of "i can help you stop being a moron" to "i'm actually working"

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06:57 <MrJiks> So, I took a free tier in AWS yesterday. I tried a simple Sinatra Hello WOrld App; it worked internally. But when I tried to access it externally, I wasn't able to. Any idea why?

06:57 <Radar> Aeyrix: I just came back from a walk to the shops and now I'm starting on my next task.

06:57 <Aeyrix> ok, no problem

06:57 <Radar> Aeyrix: what's up?

06:57 <Aeyrix> I just wanted some advice w/ testing for a gem I'm writing.

06:57 <Aeyrix> You know how I am re: testing

06:57 karols has joined #ruby

06:57 <Aeyrix> but this is something I want to release.

06:58 <_mh_> Ox0dea: Why would you be ashamed of it? It at shows up creativity and ability to work with obscure code.

06:58 <MrJiks> I have no clue about nginx; its installed and running but I don't know how to see that page outside.

06:58 <Radar> Aeyrix: shoot

06:58 <Aeyrix> Radar: Mainly just a quick run through, tbh.

06:58 <Aeyrix> Hence asking if you're busy instead of just asking the channel. :P

06:58 <Radar> Aeyrix: does it provide a CLI?

06:58 <Aeyrix> no

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06:58 <Radar> Then call the methods from the gem using RSpec

06:58 <Aeyrix> ok

06:58 <Aeyrix> any good go-to tutorial for gem r-g-r gem testing

06:58 <Aeyrix> ?

06:59 <Aeyrix> tutorial / guide

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06:59 <Aeyrix> whatever

06:59 <MrJiks> Any ideas anybody?

06:59 <baweaver> security groups

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07:00 <baweaver> though I'm probably the only devops / aws person on right now

07:00 <MrJiks> security groups? I have no idea about it; can you give me some pointers to read up on that?

07:00 karols has quit [Max SendQ exceeded]

07:00 <baweaver> might be a better idea to ask on the aws channel as well

07:00 <MrJiks> baweaver: my unix knowledge is pretty sloppy

07:00 <baweaver> a security group defines ingress and egress permissions

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07:00 <Radar> Aeyrix: Typically I would just generate a spec directory which has a spec_helper.rb which requires anything needed that the library needs

07:00 <baweaver> it's an AWS concept

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07:00 <Radar> Aeyrix: I don't have a tutorial to hand right now

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07:01 <Aeyrix> Radar: np

07:01 <Aeyrix> I just want to stop writing the code and start doing the tests firs.t

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07:01 <MrJiks> baweaver: are you referring to AMI or something like that?

07:01 <baweaver> no

07:01 <baweaver> that'd be a machine instance

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07:01 <MrJiks> baweaver: I didn't go through their security systems

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07:01 <baweaver> so no vpc or anything?

07:01 <MrJiks> I just set it up as a plain instance.

07:02 <MrJiks> Just a simple ubuntu micro instance

07:02 <baweaver> did you use the external public ip or the private one?

07:02 <MrJiks> The external IP from the dashboard

07:02 <Ox0dea> I found out how to reverse a string!

07:02 <Ox0dea> >> (___=->_,__=''{__=_[$.]+__; _[$.+=$$/$$]?___[_,__]:__})['yllis os']

07:02 <ruboto> Ox0dea # => "so silly" (https://eval.in/389716)

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07:02 <Aeyrix> Jesus fucking Christ, Ox0dea.

07:02 <baweaver> hehe

07:02 <sevenseacat> lol

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07:02 <baweaver> well that explains where he went

07:02 <Aeyrix> I'm getting weird looks from how hard that made me laugh.

07:02 <Radar> I can *almost* read that Ruby

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07:03 <MrJiks> Ox0dea: ! I don't even understand what thats even!

07:03 <sevenseacat> at least now he knows fizzbuzz and reversing a string

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07:03 <_mh_> Ox0dea: next week, you'll be having a new subset of ruby that works without any alphanums.

07:04 <Ox0dea> I mean, I'm kind of demonstrating that it already exists within the language itself?

07:04 ngsw has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]

07:04 <_mh_> sure, but you have to rewrite all utility functions, don't you?

07:04 doodleha_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]

07:04 vondruch has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]

07:04 <_mh_> unless you'd be using alphanums... ;)

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07:04 <Ox0dea> Well, yes.

07:05 <havenwood> Matz' FizzBuzz in lambda calc (line scrolls way to the right): https://github.com/mruby/mruby/blob/master/benchmark/bm_app_lc_fizzbuzz.rb#L11

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07:05 <sevenseacat> pfft, it uses alnums.

07:05 <Ox0dea> havenwood: That's Tom Stuart's.

07:05 vondruch_ has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]

07:05 <baweaver> *translating*

07:05 jzigmund_ has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]

07:05 <sevenseacat> rookie level obfuscation.

07:05 <havenwood> Ox0dea: Ah, saw matz commit it a while back but didn't look up origin.

07:06 <Ox0dea> https://github.com/tomstuart/nothing

07:06 <havenwood> Ah, the comment.

07:06 <MrJiks> baweaver: baweaver I just confirmed, I am using the public IP from the AWS instances' dashboar

07:06 <havenwood> Makes a nice little bench.

07:06 <baweaver> MrJiks: then I'd ask in AWS

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07:07 <MrJiks> baweaver: just to confirm again: I should be able to access the ip with port 80 right?

07:07 <MrJiks> http://<ip>:80

07:07 <baweaver> yeah

07:07 <MrJiks> Right?

07:07 <baweaver> should and can are different though

07:07 <baweaver> and much past that you're better off asking on the aws channels

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07:08 <MrJiks> Okay, I should probably. Let me try #aws see you! Thanks!

07:08 <sevenseacat> fifth time is the charm

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07:09 <havenwood> Ox0dea: do any quines?

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07:11 <havenwood> that would be neat without alnum

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07:11 <baweaver> https://gist.github.com/baweaver/0a088553f40d6f90299b

07:11 <baweaver> that one wasn't as bad

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07:11 <Ox0dea> havenwood: I've written some of the boring variety, but a non-alphanumeric one would be hard even under those conditions.

07:11 <baweaver> out of index and ad-hoc reduce, not bad

07:11 <Ox0dea> havenwood: I trust you know of Endoh-san's Ouroboros?

07:12 <havenwood> Ox0dea: Aye, mind blown.

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07:12 <baweaver> though I wouldn't rely on $. as irb doesn't play nice with it.

07:12 <Ox0dea> I suspect it will remain the pinnacle of quine-ing for the foreseeable future.

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07:13 <havenwood> Ox0dea: I'd consider it a major accomplishment just to install all the langs to run it. :P

07:13 <Ox0dea> havenwood: There's a meta-package in the AUR. :)

07:13 <havenwood> Ox0dea: hahaha

07:13 <havenwood> nice

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07:15 <Ox0dea> baweaver: What is the opposite of a magician?

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07:15 <havenwood> A pidgeon?

07:15 rrichardsr3 has quit [Quit: The road to hell is paved with good intentions...]

07:16 doodleha_ has joined #ruby

07:16 <havenwood> A seal?

07:16 * baweaver is thinking of Break Blade right now

07:16 <baweaver> Un-Sorcerer :D

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07:16 <baweaver> Muggle if we're on Harry Potter

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07:17 <Ox0dea> In any case, I'm honored. You're quite good at Muggling these things.

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07:17 <Ox0dea> I have accepted your unspoken challenge.

07:17 <sevenseacat> oh this will be good.

07:17 <baweaver> ....shit

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07:17 * sevenseacat makes enough popcorn for the entire channel

07:17 <_mh_> yay popcorn

07:17 <_mh_> suppose we'll need it.

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07:17 <Ox0dea> I bet I could do a bot.

07:18 <baweaver> Just give me a ring whenever you have some new concoction.

07:18 <Nilium> What about pigeons? RFCs 1149 / 2549?

07:18 <iateadonut> can i ask rails questions here? or where do i go for that?

07:18 nyanz has quit []

07:18 <Ox0dea> IPoAC is best IP.

07:18 <baweaver> #RubyOnRails

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07:18 <iateadonut> (i'm wondering why /vender is not in the default .gitignore file

07:18 <iateadonut> ok. htnak.

07:19 <Ox0dea> > mfw 2 transposition errors in the same word

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07:19 <baweaver> Oooh, are we playing with Levenshtein now?

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07:20 <baweaver> Well, Dameraue for Transpose

07:20 <shevy> you are one clever beaver

07:20 <shevy> those dam calculations sure pay off

07:20 <baweaver> Ox0dea: do DL non-alpha-numeric :D

07:20 <shevy> dam-eraue as well :D

07:21 <Ox0dea> baweaver: That sounds good.

07:21 <baweaver> god speed

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07:21 * Ox0dea is looking for his LOLCODE implementation of Boyer-Moore-Horspool.

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07:22 <baweaver> ah, that I know what that one is as well

07:23 <baweaver> well, at least Boyer-Moore

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07:23 <Aeyrix> I'm getting weird looks from how hard that made me laugh.

07:23 <Aeyrix> wow

07:23 <baweaver> I tend to memorize string algorithms as I use them often enough

07:23 <Aeyrix> thanks ctrl-tab

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07:24 <baweaver> I was about to say, the unspoken challenge thing had me rolling a bit

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07:26 <Aeyrix> Is there a uh

07:26 <Aeyrix> valid way

07:26 <Aeyrix> actually no, that defeats the purpose

07:26 <Aeyrix> #testing

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07:26 <shevy> #painful

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07:27 <Aeyrix> ye

07:27 <Aeyrix> learning tho

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07:28 <baweaver> Ox0dea: you're not using the Y-combinator though, for shame :P

07:29 doodleha_ has joined #ruby

07:29 <Ox0dea> baweaver: And that's why Tom's thing is so much more impressive than my shenanigans.

07:29 <Ox0dea> "Programming with Nothing" is my all-time favorite talk.

07:30 <yorickpeterse> morning

07:30 <baweaver> Look up Jim Weirich's Y Not

07:30 <Ox0dea> Also very good.

07:30 zz_Outlastsheep is now known as Outlastsheep

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07:31 <Ox0dea> I love that he started the talk by demonstrating fixpoints with audience participation.

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07:32 <Ox0dea> I can't find my BMH implementation. :(

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07:35 <ljarvis> moin

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07:35 <sevenseacat> sup ljarvis

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07:36 <ljarvis> tiredz :(

07:36 <sevenseacat> i know them feels

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07:40 <shevy> cats sleep a lot

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07:43 <Oog> having a very strange problem.... https://gist.github.com/anonymous/a6eedd3645223ec17ea0 - calling payments method returns [] immediately it doesnt execute the Mti function

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07:43 <Oog> i think its something to do with the function coming from a module that i dont understand

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07:45 <sevenseacat> you mean the payments method that isnt in a module?

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07:46 <Oog> i call invoice.payments and you see it calls mti_get_macro(Payment)

07:46 <Oog> but mti_get_macro seems to just return [] without executing it is very odd. this works in rails console but not in the server

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07:47 <Oog> even the firs tlog line in mti_get_macro isnt getting called

07:47 <sevenseacat> what does invoice.method(:payments).source_location return

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07:48 <Oog> website/app/models/invoice.rb", 29]

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07:49 <sevenseacat> good start, so it is calling your payments method

07:49 <Oog> im using byebug stepping in it does go into the function and i just stepped over the log_console line but it didnt output anything. i also used step and it didnt step into it

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07:50 <sevenseacat> what is log_console ?

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07:50 <Oog> basically puts

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07:50 <Oog> actually no it does Rails.logger.info(message)

07:50 <sevenseacat> thats not helpful

07:51 <sevenseacat> so whats your log level set to?

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07:51 <sevenseacat> above or below :info ?

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07:51 <Oog> in byebug if i do log_console the output is shown

07:51 <Oog> but when i step over the line no output

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07:52 <Oog> oh wait i think its i have a variable named method that might be messing stuff up maybe

07:52 <Oog> is method word special

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07:52 <Ox0dea> >> method(:method)

07:52 <ruboto> Ox0dea # => #<Method: Object(Kernel)#method> (https://eval.in/389732)

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07:53 <Oog> its all fine in console though its just in teh server

07:53 <sevenseacat> yay I get to go play with elixir some more

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07:55 <Oog> even the debugger is messed up in that function

07:56 <Oog> https://gist.github.com/anonymous/77a12ba155400a8dc741

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07:57 <Oog> i step over the line - no output. then it lands on line 56 where there is no code.....

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07:57 <sevenseacat> [15:50:59] sevenseacat:so whats your log level set to?

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07:57 <Oog> https://gist.github.com/anonymous/ef76f87f90320b614d19

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07:58 <Oog> :info

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07:59 <Oog> see that last paste - im after the line where method_names is set and then it says nomethoderror....

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07:59 <sevenseacat> Oog: are you using spring?

07:59 <sevenseacat> if so, restart it.

08:00 <Oog> no i got rid of it long ago - it causes weird problems like this...

08:00 <Oog> gem is commented out

08:00 <sevenseacat> that doesnt mean its not running.

08:00 <Oog> oh....

08:00 <Oog> bangs head not again.... how do i kill it

08:00 <Oog> i hate spring

08:00 <sevenseacat> spring stop

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08:01 <shevy> winter start

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08:02 <Oog> ok... it worked this time. let me do some more experiments though... i think the issue is caching it gets in a screwed up state

08:03 <Oog> spring is TERRIBLE it has cuases to many weird problems i dont get it

08:03 <sevenseacat> aye, I wish it was nuked from orbit.

08:03 <Oog> how do i get rid of it

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08:04 <sevenseacat> remove from Gemfile, bundle... theres probably a step to rebuild binstubs if you use binstubs

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08:04 <Oog> i dont think i do

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08:05 <sevenseacat> yeah me either

08:05 <sevenseacat> had more problems with them than with spring

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08:06 <Oog> wtf it is caching stuff stuff is still cached

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08:07 <Oog> what else could be caching. spring is not running

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08:15 <Ox0dea> "There are only two hard problems in computer science: naming things, cache invalidation, and off-by-one errors."

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08:15 <_mh_> agreecd

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08:24 <kitallis> why does this fail? http://pastie.org/10265705

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08:26 <Ox0dea> kitallis: FILE is not a thing in Ruby, but File is.

08:26 <sevenseacat> kitallis: did you mean File, not FILE ?

08:26 <wnd> mayhaps you shold try File::LOCK_EX

08:26 <kitallis> christ

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08:26 * kitallis kills self

08:26 <kitallis> thx

08:26 <Ox0dea> Zombie!

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08:27 <heftig> zombie ghosts

08:27 <Ox0dea> >> '2spooky4me'.gsub(/\d/, &:succ)

08:27 <ruboto> Ox0dea # => "3spooky5me" (https://eval.in/389760)

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08:28 <sevenseacat> cute

08:28 <Ox0dea> sevenseacat: You can do &+1 in Elixir, right?

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08:28 <sevenseacat> ummm something like that

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08:30 <Ox0dea> kitallis: You're calling #flock on two distinct File objects. I suspect that's not what you want.

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08:31 <kitallis> yeah, I fixed that

08:31 <kitallis> changed it to http://pastie.org/10265714

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08:31 <Ox0dea> Looks good.

08:31 <Ox0dea> But you've rekindled my envy of Python's context managers. :/

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08:32 <kitallis> ha, yeah. I recall those.

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08:40 <shevy> python needs managers?

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08:41 <sevenseacat> iex(17)> Regex.replace ~r/(\d)/, "2spooky4me", &(String.to_integer(&1)+1) |> to_string

08:41 <sevenseacat> "3spooky5me"

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08:41 <sevenseacat> that took me way too long.

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08:41 <sevenseacat> and probably sucks.

08:41 <Ox0dea> And we're supposed to mass exodus?!

08:42 <sevenseacat> quiet, i'm learning.

08:42 <shevy> :>

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08:42 <adaedra> Bonjour

08:42 <ddv> quiet peasant

08:42 <adaedra> :<

08:43 <sevenseacat> its not bad except for the String.to_integer part

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08:43 <Ox0dea> In your defense, String#succ is kind of strange.

08:43 <Ox0dea> It's at once glorious and god-awful.

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08:44 <sevenseacat> String.replace would only accept a binary for the replacement, not a function. so had to go to Regex.replace.

08:44 <sevenseacat> which of course has its args in the opposite order.

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08:45 <sevenseacat> https://github.com/elixir-lang/elixir/blob/v1.0.5/lib/elixir/lib/string.ex#L679-L681

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08:47 <shevy> adaedra Baguette!

08:47 Xeago has joined #ruby

08:47 <adaedra> Bon, ça suffit shevy

08:48 <shevy> is that a french insult! I learned about them in "The Holy Grail" movie

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08:49 <shevy> "King Arthur and his knights embark on a low-budget search for the Grail, encountering many very silly obstacles."

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08:50 <ddv> shouldn't you be working shevy

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08:51 <sphex> bon, shevy calisse, ca va faire la

08:51 <shevy> wat

08:51 <shevy> that's like unicode, I can't see anything

08:51 <shevy> ddv only the poor have to work :) though I have to leave here soon, that is true... I just delay it...

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08:52 <adaedra> sphex: o_O

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08:55 <adaedra> shevy: Ｙｏｕｃａｎ＇ｔｓｅｅｕｎｉｃｏｄｅ？

08:55 <shevy> wat

08:56 <adaedra> This kind of answers my question :)

08:56 <yorickpeterse> -===☆ ＴＨＥＭＯＲＥＹＯＵＫＮＯＷ

08:56 <yorickpeterse> (っ´ω｀)っ

08:56 <yorickpeterse> (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻

08:56 * yorickpeterse has plenty

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08:56 <adaedra> poor shevy who can't see them

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08:56 <shevy> yeah

08:56 <shevy> fix your encoding adaedra

08:56 <adaedra> no u

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08:57 <musty> GNU.

08:57 <DaniG2k> (ノಠ益ಠ)ノ︵ ┻━┻

08:57 <adaedra> shevy: it's readable on public log, if you want to know

08:57 <yorickpeterse> Surely you mean GNU/Linux?

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08:57 <shevy> I need no logs

08:58 <adaedra> ┬─┬ノ( º _ ºノ) Ｒｅｓｐｅｃｔｔａｂｌｅｓ

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08:58 <DaniG2k> adaedra: hahaha\

08:58 <musty> This is what the ruby community has becometh.

08:58 <adaedra> Thanks, Obama.

08:58 <DaniG2k> <3

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09:00 <bnagy> *hath become

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09:00 <yorickpeterse> ( •_•) ( •_•)>⌐■-■ (⌐■_■)

09:00 <yorickpeterse> ᕕ(ᐛ)ᕗ

09:00 ngsw has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]

09:01 <yorickpeterse> （ ≖_≖）

09:01 <yorickpeterse> (っ' ▽' )ノ

09:01 <yorickpeterse> <3 plugins

09:01 <yorickpeterse> I mean

09:01 ngsw has joined #ruby

09:01 <yorickpeterse> ♥ plugins

09:01 doodleha_ has joined #ruby

09:02 <musty> bnagy, thanks naggy.

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09:04 <howdoi> any easy way to chain: `@book.present? && @book.isbn.present?`

09:04 <adaedra> there should be a !yorickpeterse command that throws a random unicode emoticon

09:05 <yorickpeterse> :D

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09:05 * howdoi waits in a corner

09:05 <ljarvis> howdoi: @book.try(:isbn).present? (assuming since you have present? you have try) but I prefer yours

09:05 <shevy> adaedra lol

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09:06 <shevy> !yorickpeterse

09:06 <howdoi> ljarvis: I liked yours :)

09:06 <shevy> adaedra it's broken

09:06 <adaedra> too bad

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09:06 <ljarvis> howdoi: I think it's awful, but ok :)

09:06 <howdoi> any reason for your preference?

09:06 <howdoi> heh heh cool

09:07 <ljarvis> howdoi: I don't think it reads very nicely

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09:07 <ljarvis> I would write: @book && @book.isbn.present? or something similar

09:07 <howdoi> nice, thanks

09:08 <ljarvis> assuming you have AR and @book is a model, you *probably* have an isbn? method too

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09:10 <yorickpeterse> noice

09:10 <yorickpeterse> so I have this code

09:10 lkba has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]

09:10 <yorickpeterse> and it uses Nokogiri

09:10 <yorickpeterse> and leaks memory like a ******

09:10 <yorickpeterse> Swap it with Oga, no memory leak

09:10 <yorickpeterse> Just takes a bit longer to parse

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09:10 <yorickpeterse> well, longer to query xpath/css

09:10 <ljarvis> are you saying nokogiri leaks memory? no bro

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09:11 <yorickpeterse> Yes, I've seen it leak a few 100 MB in this instance

09:11 <yorickpeterse> but it's libxml so it's webscale

09:11 <ljarvis> exactly

09:11 <howdoi> ljarvis: not always

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09:11 <ljarvis> howdoi: hm?

09:12 <adaedra> ＷＥＢＳＣＡＬＥ

09:12 <howdoi> well, the code i'm working on is screwed up

09:12 doodleha_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]

09:12 <howdoi> ＳＣＡＬＥ THE ＷＥＢ

09:12 <yorickpeterse> bear metal

09:12 <yorickpeterse> node.js

09:12 <yorickpeterse> etc

09:13 <ljarvis> bear metal?

09:13 <yorickpeterse> Yes, bear metal

09:13 <ljarvis> like, a bear made out of metal?

09:13 <yorickpeterse> http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk263/Dandanimal99/HMBEAR.jpg bear metal

09:13 <adaedra> howdoi: lol

09:13 <ljarvis> wow photobucket

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09:14 <ljarvis> last time i clicked their links i was like 12

09:14 <maloik> yay metal

09:14 <yorickpeterse> so like last year?

09:14 <ljarvis> hurrrr

09:14 <yorickpeterse> ho ho ho

09:14 <ljarvis> that's more than half my life ago

09:14 <ljarvis> :(

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09:14 <maloik> wait you're not even 24?

09:14 <howdoi> ^_^

09:14 <ljarvis> ... yes, MORE than half of my life ago

09:15 <ljarvis> ya nub

09:15 <ljarvis> i realise that is an awful way to say it

09:15 <adaedra> aren't we all 12 in here?

09:15 <maloik> just checking, maybe you counted years in some weird uk system

09:15 <shevy> nothing wrong with being young

09:15 <ljarvis> maloik: no we do counting like most places, everything else is unique though

09:15 <yorickpeterse> well they do drive on the wrong side of the road and have their own shoe sizes system

09:15 <maloik> oh I see

09:15 <ljarvis> ^

09:16 <maloik> I did think you were older though :)

09:16 <adaedra> And mph

09:16 <ljarvis> maloik: 26

09:16 <yorickpeterse> Everywhere in the EU: "I'm size 42" In the UK: "eh....9,5?"

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09:16 <ljarvis> adaedra: kmh is insane

09:16 <adaedra> no it's not

09:16 <maloik> ooooooh

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09:16 <maloik> doh

09:16 <yorickpeterse> be grateful we don't measure things in inches, stones and feet

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09:17 <ljarvis> what's stupid is that although we often measure weight in stone, if you go to the doctors or a fitness expert, they'll measure it in KG

09:17 <ljarvis> sometimes in lbs when you really want a messed up experience

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09:17 <adaedra> Sounds simple and sensible /s

09:17 <ljarvis> and gym weights over here are all KG

09:17 <ljarvis> aye

09:18 AlexAltea has joined #ruby

09:18 <ljarvis> but, we have our own currency. Suck it EU

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09:18 <zenspider> scrolls back to see what HOUR ruby was last discussed...

09:18 <adaedra> "Your weight is 20kg + 3 stones + 7 lbs"

09:18 <maloik> ?offtopic

09:18 <ruboto> I don't know anything about offtopic

09:19 <maloik> wat

09:19 <zenspider> haha

09:19 <ljarvis> 7 minutes ago

09:19 <yorickpeterse> ljarvis: not a bad idea since the Euro is going to shit

09:19 doodleha_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]

09:19 <ljarvis> ?ot

09:19 <ruboto> this seems to be off-topic. Please move your discussion to #ruby-offtopic, to keep this channel free for Ruby related problems. Thanks!

09:19 <yorickpeterse> ssssssh, jhass isn't here

09:19 <maloik> I don't even...

09:19 <ljarvis> yes he is

09:19 <zenspider> maloik: FULL ENGLISH WORDS? and you call yourself a programmer

09:19 <ljarvis> !fact add offtopic this seems to be off-topic. Please move your discussion to #ruby-offtopic, to keep this channel free for Ruby related problems. Thanks!

09:19 <ruboto> ljarvis, I will remember that offtopic is this seems to be off-topic. Please move your discussion to #ruby-offtopic, to keep this channel free for Ruby related problems. Thanks!

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09:20 <maloik> zenspider: I would have just made it "o" instead of "ot"

09:20 <maloik> I'm all for saving keystrokes, but do it right the first time!

09:20 <ljarvis> it should just be ?

09:20 <maloik> :D

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09:20 <yorickpeterse> ?:offtopic

09:20 <adaedra> Use your client aliases/keybindings

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09:21 <maloik> I'm using a terminal window connected to irssi on a server with bad encoding

09:21 <maloik> what keybindings?

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09:21 <ljarvis> /alias foo bar

09:21 <ljarvis> profit

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10:33 <Oog> >> method(:reason)

10:33 <ruboto> Oog # => undefined method `reason' for class `Object' (NameError) ...check link for more (https://eval.in/389787)

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10:34 <Oog> >> method(:method_name)

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10:34 <ruboto> Oog # => undefined method `method_name' for class `Object' (NameError) ...check link for more (https://eval.in/389788)

10:34 <ljarvis> ?irb

10:34 <ruboto> irb is "interactive ruby", it is part of ruby. You can run ruby code and see results immediately. it's useful for testing code. Also see ?pry, a gem which is a popular alternative to irb.

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10:34 <ljarvis> Oog: please use your local irb unless you have a question and are giving an example to others

10:35 <Oog> will do

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10:38 <Ox0dea> I wonder why $+, $-, and $^ aren't used.

10:38 <Ox0dea> $^ should be Process.uptime, which should exist.

10:39 <apeiros> I'm just happy about the fact.

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10:39 <Ox0dea> apeiros: It doesn't complicate the parser any?

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10:40 <apeiros> I don't care much for parser complexity. I care about code readability.

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10:40 <Ox0dea> But, I mean, look which way the variable is pointing.

10:40 <Ox0dea> Says "uptime" to me.

10:40 <Ox0dea> :P

10:40 <apeiros> -.-

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10:41 <adaedra> Keep calm and require English

10:41 <apeiros> if people just stopped to use the term "one-way encryption".

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10:42 <manveru> but everybody thinks i'm using drugs when i talk about hashing

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10:43 <adaedra> control sums?

10:43 <apeiros> then maybe you should put away the drugs before talking about hashing!

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10:43 <manveru> hmm i'll try that next time

10:44 <adaedra> but yeah, “one way encryption” is stupid

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10:44 <bnagy> wow it's manveru

10:44 <bnagy> I thought you quit ruby

10:44 <manveru> ruby didn't quit me

10:44 <apeiros> http://theartandscienceofruby.com/2015/06/29/how-do-i-encrypt-data-in-my-database/ shortened for (currently vapor) jacob: just use :password, :encrypted_text and :encrypted_binary column types.

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10:45 <apeiros> oh, and for :password, tell the users to frequently log in (automatic upgrade of the used hash function happens on login, since the original data is required)

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10:46 <apeiros> or rather: happens on password verification

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10:46 <ljarvis> manveru: o/

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10:47 <manveru> ljarvis: \o

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10:49 <ljarvis> manveru: how's tricks?

10:49 magical-imouto has joined #ruby

10:49 <manveru> who's tricks? :P

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10:50 <ljarvis> http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=How%27s+tricks%3F

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10:50 <manveru> Not good man, I passed out last night while drinking and got teabagged.

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10:50 <ljarvis> classic

10:51 <manveru> otherwise quite fine :)

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10:59 <manveru> wonder if anyone from seattle.rb gonna be at TI5

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11:05 <manveru> guess i can just go to the meetup on tuesday if that's still a thing

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11:11 <apeiros> manveru: you're in seattle?

11:12 <manveru> apeiros: going to http://www.dota2.com/international/announcement/

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11:12 <apeiros> oh, dota2

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11:12 <apeiros> watch or participate?

11:12 <manveru> yeah, whole city filled with even more nerds than usual :)

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11:12 <apeiros> ^^

11:13 <manveru> business trip :)

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11:13 <apeiros> don't tell me you work for a gaming company

11:13 <apeiros> or are you combining business trip with fun?

11:13 <manveru> i work for dotabuff

11:13 <apeiros> ok, so both

11:14 <manveru> yeah

11:14 <apeiros> nice

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11:14 <manveru> basically our yearly company get-together

11:14 <adaedra> this looks offtopic

11:14 <adaedra> :p

11:14 <manveru> damn

11:14 <manveru> he caught us

11:14 <apeiros> !ot apeiros

11:15 <apeiros> ?ot apeiros

11:15 <ruboto> apeiros, this seems to be off-topic. Please move your discussion to #ruby-offtopic, to keep this channel free for Ruby related problems. Thanks!

11:15 <apeiros> :<

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11:15 <adaedra> :v

11:15 <manveru> since when do we have bots?

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11:15 <manveru> is zenspider retired?

11:15 <apeiros> ruboto is the official channel bot

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11:16 <apeiros> conundrum has gone the way of the dodo

11:16 <apeiros> or at least I have no idea where it is

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11:16 <adaedra> mmmmh dodo

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11:21 <Xeago> what happened to eval-in?

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11:21 <apeiros> got replaced by ruboto

11:21 <apeiros> same code for code evaluation

11:21 <Xeago> ok

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11:22 <manveru> >> self

11:22 <ruboto> manveru # => main (https://eval.in/389808)

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11:54 <dorei> is there a better / more beautiful way to write this? https://gist.github.com/egwspiti/e450588a8585d23e1fa2

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11:57 <apeiros> dorei: you're "unstubbing"?

11:58 * apeiros wonders whether a refinement does undef

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11:59 <dorei> apeiros: ruby facets is adding #call to Symbol and this causes trouble with some versions of Slop

12:00 <workmad3> dorei: wow, what version of ruby are you on where symbol still needs #call monkey patched in? :/

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12:01 <workmad3> oh wait, symbol has to_proc, not call

12:01 <workmad3> ignore me

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12:02 <apeiros> "why monkey patching is bad, episode 217"

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12:02 <apeiros> dorei: you don't have any threads in your code?

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12:03 * jhass is really curious about what the "some code" part could be

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12:03 <apeiros> jhass: they said it - slop

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12:03 <adaedra> /ignore workmad3

12:03 <apeiros> probably morphs on arg type

12:03 <jhass> oh

12:04 <workmad3> adaedra: :(

12:04 <apeiros> ah, right: "why argument polymorphism is bad, episode 219"

12:04 <adaedra> workmad3: eh, you asked it!

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12:04 <jhass> "why facets is bad, episode 221"

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12:04 <workmad3> adaedra: bah

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12:05 <apeiros> jhass: I think we covered that in episode 13 already

12:05 <apeiros> early knowledge :D

12:05 <jhass> it's a flashback episode

12:05 <apeiros> ah

12:05 <apeiros> yeah

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12:11 * workmad3 imagines a jhass and apeiros podcast of "Why facets are bad" - 20 minutes of them saying "Facets are bad" in louder and louder voices

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12:11 <jhass> meh, sounds boring

12:11 <jhass> can I write an espeak script for that?

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12:11 <workmad3> jhass: episode 2 is on automation

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12:12 <jhass> ah the cheap "how we made the last one" kind

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12:48 <mahtennek> hi does anybody know how to split this regex till the end?

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12:48 <mahtennek> CS4248[LEC]=1&CS3244[LEC]=1&CS3244[TUT]=4&CS3216[LEC]=1&CS3216[TUT]=2

12:48 <mahtennek> i can't seem to get the last few, there are different queries

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12:48 <mahtennek> https://gist.github.com/anonymous/39ab7cba2e08ff85a449

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12:48 <jhass> mahtennek: looks like query params, the CGI module should have something to parse them

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12:49 <mahtennek> jhass: oh they do?

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12:49 <ljarvis> >> require 'cgi'; CGI.parse "CS4248[LEC]=1&CS3244[LEC]=1&CS3244[TUT]=4&CS3216[LEC]=1&CS3216[TUT]=2"

12:49 <ruboto> ljarvis # => {"CS4248[LEC]"=>["1"], "CS3244[LEC]"=>["1"], "CS3244[TUT]"=>["4"], "CS3216[LEC]"=>["1"], "CS3216[TUT ...check link for more (https://eval.in/389891)

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12:53 <mahtennek> ah cgi fixed it

12:53 <mahtennek> thanks thanks guys

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12:56 <shevy> jhass you are the ultimately the guy who broke the +1000 mark on #ruby :>

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12:58 <yorickpeterse> now lets get it over 9000

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12:59 <ljarvis> we talking about jruby?

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13:01 <yorickpeterse> man I hate this weather

13:02 <yorickpeterse> Working from home, it's so hot I can't even get on my balcony

13:02 <shevy> yorickpeterse hmm I wonder what the channel record is at freenode

13:02 <yorickpeterse> my feat will literally burn

13:02 <yorickpeterse> shevy: in #ruby-lang I talked the most

13:02 <yorickpeterse> go figure

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13:02 <yorickpeterse> I wonder if I can bake an egg on my balcony

13:02 * yorickpeterse has no eggs

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13:03 <yorickpeterse> my cat isn't even trying to go outside, he's just napping on my bed

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13:04 <shevy> lol

13:04 <shevy> wait

13:04 <shevy> aren't you in the netherlands?

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13:04 <shevy> don't you guys have an ocean right before your eyes!

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13:05 <lupine> foor(&(-> e { e.bar }))

13:05 <yorickpeterse> I live pretty far from the ocean

13:05 <lupine> I am insulted that this is valid syntax

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13:05 <lupine> remember when ruby was beautiful?

13:05 <lupine> chunky bacon!

13:05 <yorickpeterse> hm, "pretty far" 50 km

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13:06 <shevy> lupine you also don't like the -> ?

13:06 <shevy> & and -> together is quite the ugliness

13:07 <shevy> and ruby can't even claim that it took that from perl now can it?

13:07 <lupine> it's an incredibly stringing-together of evil

13:07 <shevy> :)

13:07 <lupine> incredible*

13:07 <shevy> there is ruby of the light side

13:07 <shevy> and ruby of the dark side

13:07 <shevy> yoda and darth vader would have both used ruby

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13:51 <shevy> if only computers could program for us

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13:52 <xrlabs> they can, you just have to teach them

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14:05 <beilabs_> so i've a string with the values "{1=>2015, 2=>6, 3=>12}" - whats the best way for me to get the value of 1, 2, 3

14:06 <mahtennek> is there a way i can get a dynamic value from regex? for eg /(variable)/ puts "#{variable}"?

14:06 <apeiros> beilabs_: simple answer: use the literal_parser gem to parse the string to a hash and use .keys on the hash

14:07 <apeiros> beilabs_: long answer: how do you get that string?

14:07 <apeiros> or rather: why do you have that data as a string?

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14:07 <bougyman> mahtennek: yes.

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14:07 <beilabs_> apeiros, it's what I'm stuck with in an older system

14:07 <apeiros> mahtennek: string.match(regex).captures

14:07 <beilabs_> thanks for the tip with the gem

14:07 <apeiros> beilabs_: that's not really answering the question :)

14:07 <apeiros> (it's equivalent to say "I have it because I have it")

14:08 <beilabs_> well, yes it is, it's in a database and I have to extract it.

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14:08 <mahtennek> oh okay cool

14:08 <beilabs_> the fact it's in a crap format is besides the point, but thanks for the tip.

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14:08 <mahtennek> thanks bougyman apeiros

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14:09 <mahtennek> oh wait

14:09 <mahtennek> but if i am doing like this, when /what is my module for (modules)/i ...

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14:09 <mahtennek> how do i even string.match regex?

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14:10 <apeiros> >> string = "some string"; regex = /([auejvmcie]*/; string.match(regex).captures

14:10 <ruboto> apeiros # => /tmp/execpad-2ff5f5ae2dfe/source-2ff5f5ae2dfe:2: end pattern with unmatched parenthesis: /([auejvmci ...check link for more (https://eval.in/389921)

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14:10 <apeiros> >> string = "some string"; regex = /([auejvmcie]*)/; string.match(regex).captures

14:10 <ruboto> apeiros # => [""] (https://eval.in/389922)

14:10 <apeiros> oh, * matches empty string too… silly

14:10 <apeiros> >> string = "some string"; regex = /([auejvmcie]+)/; string.match(regex).captures

14:10 <ruboto> apeiros # => ["me"] (https://eval.in/389923)

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14:11 <bougyman> >> /(?<variable>foo)/ =~ "foobar"; variable

14:11 <ruboto> bougyman # => "foo" (https://eval.in/389924)

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14:11 <apeiros> mahtennek: ^ this is how you string.match(regex). you have a string. you call .match on it. you pass it your regex.

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14:11 <apeiros> bougyman: you're only allowed to show this if you also list the full restrictions of that feature.

14:11 <apeiros> +set of

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14:12 <bougyman> that's a huge list.

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14:12 <bougyman> summary: don't use it.

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14:13 <bougyman> but it matches his query.

14:13 <mahtennek> wow

14:13 <mahtennek> hang on

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14:46 <ruv> anyone here try to package traveling ruby with mock?

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15:00 <Luun> does anyone know of a ruby profiler that will work with 1.8.7? I can’t seem to find any

15:00 <ljarvis> Luun: that's because you shouldn't be using 1.8.7

15:00 <Luun> I know :(

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15:00 <wasamasa> shouldn't be any harder than finding people willing to work with 1.8.7

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15:01 <Luun> hah

15:01 <ljarvis> Luun: why the version constraint?

15:01 <Luun> that’s just what version where I work has been running forever

15:01 <Luun> we’re upgrading soon

15:01 <Luun> but until them I’m stuck

15:02 <ljarvis> interesting, your work are ok with running outdated software huh

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15:02 <Luun> not okay, but just too understaffed to update

15:02 <Luun> like I said, we’re updating soon though

15:03 <ljarvis> but yeah in all seriousness it's possible there are older profilers that'll work on 1.8.7 but I haven't used that version for a long time so I think you'll have to dig

15:03 <Luun> ok, thanks! just wanted to make sure there wasn’t an obvious one I was unaware of

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15:21 <dgarstang> How can I extract a portion of text from a multiline string in ruby?

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15:22 <adaedra> Have a sample?

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15:22 <ljarvis> dgarstang: that's a bit broad, but no different to how you would extract it if it wasn't multiline. Maybe an example would help

15:22 <dgarstang> ljarvis: Let's call it a single line then... :)

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15:22 <yorickpeterse> God I love AWS

15:22 <adaedra> good for you

15:22 <yorickpeterse> You disable AlarmNotification on an autoscaling group

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15:23 <dgarstang> ljarvis: actually I think I can do it line by line

15:23 <yorickpeterse> What does it do? ADD A NEW INSTANCE ANYWAY

15:23 <ljarvis> dgarstang: we still need an example

15:23 <adaedra> dgarstang: Not Enough Information

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15:27 <dgarstang> python has re.match and grouping, so I can do stuff like re.match('foo=(.*?)$',str) and extract everything after the = with re.group(1)... has ruby got an equiv?

15:28 <Aria> $1 etc.

15:28 <Aria> Lots of ways to do it

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15:30 <cj> what's ruby's test framework? Anything like Test::More ?

15:30 <Aria> minitest and rspec and many others.

15:31 <Aria> You'll find a bit of a lack around TAP support, sadly, but some things support it

15:31 <cj> thanks. looks like ingy did a gem called test-more

15:31 <cj> in October of 2013... hmm...

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15:32 <Aria> It's not like test frameworks need to change rapidly.

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15:33 <jhass> dgarstang: I'd usually go for "foo=bar"[/foo=(.+?)/, 1] or "foo=bar"[/(?<=foo=).+?/]

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15:37 <cj> Aria: yeah, it looks like it works fine in its current state... now to learn how to program a ruby class and instantiate an object! :-)

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15:38 <txdv> shevy: http://rubyfiddle.com/riddles/6f25b

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15:48 <shevy> txdv lol

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15:49 <shevy> txdv for some strange reason, I always think you reside in Germany

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15:53 <jlebrech> can I output excon request in json or hash? other than Excon.new(debug: true)

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16:16 <Izud> Hello

16:16 <Izud> Anyone here

16:16 <havenwood> Izud: hi

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16:18 <jhass> apeiros: I forgot, who did we decide is anyone? me right?

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16:19 <apeiros> jhass: I think so

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16:19 <apeiros> I'm nobody

16:19 <apeiros> don't remember who somebody was

16:19 <apeiros> wait, no, you're anybody

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16:19 <apeiros> no clue who's anyone

16:19 <jhass> ah, mh

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16:20 <shevy> I am anyone

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16:21 <Aria> I'm nobody.

16:21 joshbamboo2 has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]

16:21 <Aria> After all, nobody's perfect. ;-)

16:21 <jhass> but anyone usually know's X with X being whatever

16:21 <shevy> Aria is perfect

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16:22 <jhass> Izud: so, what's up?

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16:23 <Izud> Havenwood: Hello

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16:24 <Izud> Very good jhass

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16:24 <Izud> Quite new here

16:25 <Izud> Oblivious of the syntax to mention a user ;)

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16:26 <jhass> it's a client feature, most trigger it if the nick appears anywhere

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16:26 <jhass> and if you got a sane client you should have nick tab completion anywhere

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16:29 <Izud> which client do u use?

16:29 <jhass> weechat

16:29 <Izud> I'm using xchat

16:29 <Izud> ok

16:29 <Izud> on pc?

16:29 <jhass> sure

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16:29 <Izud> ok...checking it out now

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16:37 <Izud> has anyone here tried out octopress 3?

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16:40 <Izud> #rails

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16:44 <Senjai> Morning ruby

16:45 <Senjai> ?use Izud

16:45 <ruboto> Izud, Don't ask "does anyone use <thing>?". It's better to just state your problem and if anyone has used <thing> they will most likely answer.

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16:46 <adaedra> ?hello Senjai

16:46 <ruboto> Senjai, I don't know anything about hello

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16:47 <Senjai> ^ Dat be a bug

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16:47 <Senjai> jhass: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Isjgc0oX0s

16:47 <Izud> ?okay ruboto

16:47 <ruboto> ruboto, I don't know anything about okay

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16:48 <jhass> Senjai: idk how!

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16:48 <Izud> i'm having issues with octopress 3 when i create a Gemfile and run jekyll serve i get series of errors

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16:51 <jhass> Izud: post them to gist

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16:58 <Izud> ?jhass https://gist.github.com/kinsomicrote/b4b5e2531aebac5d8c2a

16:58 <ruboto> https://gist.github.com/kinsomicrote/b4b5e2531aebac5d8c2a, I don't know anything about jhass

16:58 <Izud> ?https://gist.github.com/kinsomicrote/b4b5e2531aebac5d8c2a jhass

16:58 <ruboto> I don't know anything about https

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17:00 <jhass> Izud: what's up with triggering the bot?

17:00 <jhass> Izud: that seems to only be a warning, do you get an error too?

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17:02 <Izud> jhass yea...a load error

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17:02 <Izud> check the comment of the gist

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17:03 <jhass> so you have a Gemfile? try prepending bundle exec to whatever you run

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17:05 <Izud> Okay, would try that...gotta rush out now

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17:11 <Pwnna> is there a way to get pwd if pwd is supposed to be in a symlink?

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17:11 <Pwnna> like: mkdir abc; ln -s abc abclinked; cd abclinked; ruby show_pwd.rb => should show abclinked rather than just abc?

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17:16 <jhass> mmh, doesn't look like it, I wonder if it's resolved at OS level already

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17:16 <Pwnna> i don't think so

17:17 <Pwnna> /proc/$$/cwd show the original directory

17:17 <Pwnna> shell is doing something strange but idk if there is a way to replicate it.

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17:17 <jhass> well, I couldn't find an API so you just answered yourself

17:17 <Pwnna> well but shell does it

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17:17 <Pwnna> cd abclinked; pwd => abclinked

17:18 <jhass> File.read("/proc/self/read")

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17:18 <Pwnna> if you read the link for /proc/self/cwd it points to the original directory..

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17:19 <jhass> er, right

17:21 <jhass> mmh, ENV["PWD"] I guess

17:21 <Pwnna> hmm

17:21 <Pwnna> interesting

17:21 <jhass> yap, that overrides it

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17:21 <Pwnna> hmmmm

17:21 <Pwnna> but is that only when you start it from shell?

17:21 <jhass> if you launch a subshell after unsetting it the shells loose it too

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17:22 <Pwnna> hmm i'm actually runnint my original service via running.. let me check if it overrides PWD

17:22 <Pwnna> thanks jhass that was super helpful :)

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17:24 <jhass> well, all that said relying on something like that surely sounds fishy ;)

17:24 <jhass> I mean the general idea that what's returned makes a difference at all

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17:25 <Pwnna> well my problem is I will do a Dir.chdir(...) { ... }

17:25 <Pwnna> but sometimes when that call returns...

17:25 <Pwnna> the original directory might be removed, because a new version replaced it via symlink.

17:26 <Pwnna> so like /opt/program still points to /opt/program-1.2

17:26 <Pwnna> but the original program might be /opt/program-1.1

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17:27 <jhass> I don't quite follow why that's a problem, in fact my intuition would be that that's desired, I was invoked when it pointed to 1.2, so I should continue working with that

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17:29 <Pwnna> no so the original program-1.1 is invoked. during a long running operation in a chdir block, program-1.1 is deleted and replaced with program-1.2

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17:29 <Pwnna> the long running operation is done, it tries to change back to program-1.1's directory, it doesn't work.

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17:29 <jhass> so you have /opt/program hardcoded and want to detect the change?

17:30 <jhass> oh

17:30 <Pwnna> no i just don't want it to chdir into an invalid directory.

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17:30 <Pwnna> i also don't think it should stay in the directory it changed to, although i'm not sure if there's any adverse effect.

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17:30 <Pwnna> maybe i'll just have it stay there

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17:32 <jhass> mmh, I wonder if you could use a file lock to prevent it from being removed

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17:32 <Pwnna> well i think that's too complicated

17:32 <Pwnna> i think the easiest is if the chdir is permanent

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17:32 <Pwnna> so i take that out of a block

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17:33 <Pwnna> so the script will execute in the new directory location

17:33 <Pwnna> and don't return to its roots

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17:33 <Pwnna> eventually the script will die, and it will be respawned by runit with the new version, so all is good.

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17:34 <jhass> well, if that's an option, it's certainly the simplest one

17:34 <Pwnna> yeah

17:34 <Pwnna> it is

17:34 <Pwnna> i just realized

17:34 <Pwnna> thanks for all the help :)

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17:39 <air_> how can a student participate in ruby open source devlopment

17:39 <air_> ?

17:40 <rdaviesDG> air_, github issues!

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17:40 <havenwood> air_: Know any Ruby already or just starting learning it?

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17:40 <air_> how can one know which project he have to contribute?

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17:40 <air_> know little ruby

17:40 <havenwood> air_: Non-technical contributions are valuable as well.

17:40 <havenwood> air_: nice

17:41 <air_> means?

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17:41 <air_> non-technical what?

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17:42 <havenwood> air_: Fixing typos or grammar mistakes in documentation. Improving readme's and wikis. Providing graphics for branding.

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17:42 <rdaviesDG> also juggling is useful

17:43 <air_> link?

17:43 <havenwood> air_: I'd suggest picking a tool you're interested in and taking a while to study its code. Then review all the issues and pull requests and see if there's anything you can contribute. Or any places you can improve documentation, examples, formatting, etc along the way.

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17:45 <havenwood> air_: For example, Ruby's documentation could always use some love!: http://documenting-ruby.org/

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17:46 <havenwood> air_: As they say ^: Writing documentation is a gentle, but effective introduction to contributing to open source

17:46 <havenwood> air_: And it's a valuable contribution!

17:46 <jhass> With larger issue trackers pointing out duplicates or old issues that can't be solved anymore due to changes in the project and stuff like that can be useful too

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17:49 <air_> how it will help to student?

17:49 <sphex> I sure wish ruby had a set of man pages that succinctly described the language. perl 4 had an awesome manpage that described almost the whole language.

17:49 <discr33t__> i'm fairly new to ruby and having trouble getting some code to work. i'm trying to get the output as a single array but i keep getting 3 individual arrays. can anyone help point me in the right direction? http://pastie.org/10266634

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17:50 <jhass> air_: if it's not obvious and fun to you, then there's no point. Move on to something that motivates you

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17:51 <postmodern> is there anyway to have warden store the session in the database, so it hard-expires at logout time?

17:51 <jhass> discr33t__: start by properly indenting your code so you're not confused about its structure

17:51 <air_> no its fun, how does it will help me in future

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17:52 <jhass> air_: it can bring you some reputation, but that shouldn't be your goal IMO. Your goal should be having fun. Now.

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17:52 <air_> yeah

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17:53 <jhass> discr33t__: apart from that I'm not sure I understand your question, could you elaborate?

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17:54 <discr33t__> jhass: what i am trying to do is execute the postgres command to tell me the version that is installed. we have some hosts that have more than one version of postgres installed which is why i have doing the Dir.glob, to get an array of all paths to the postgres command

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17:55 <discr33t__> jhass: i'm iterating over that array to run the command for each installed version, which is unfortunately giving me 3 separate arrays. i'm trying to turn that into a single array with multiple objects

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17:56 <jhass> well, you don't collect anything in your example code, you simply iterate and print a bit

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17:56 <jhass> or well, even the printing code is commented so you're not doing anything really

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17:57 <jhass> so still not sure what your goal is

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17:57 <jhass> if I had to take a wild guess, I'd say you want Array#map

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17:58 <jhass> but given I have no idea about your goal, I can't predict if it's anywhere near the best tool for it

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17:59 <discr33t__> jhass: this is going to become a puppet fact for postgres installed version. i'm just trying to work out the code that gives me the correctly formatted output. i'm uncommenting the puts statements as needed to check the output

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18:00 <jhass> discr33t__: btw foo = bar.sub(/.../, '\1') is a bit silly, just foo = bar[/.../, 1]

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18:01 <discr33t__> jhass: ok, i'll make that change for the regex

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18:11 <shevy> hmm

18:11 <shevy> if someone else defines: module Configuration

18:12 <shevy> hmmmm

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18:12 <shevy> then I can no longer do

18:12 <shevy> class Configuration; end # TypeError: Configuration is not a class

18:12 <shevy> is there a way to clear the earlier defined module?

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18:12 <jhass> const_remove

18:12 <jhass> but!

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18:13 <shevy> ah yes

18:13 <jhass> if you have a library which does that at the toplevel that's enough reason to ditch it

18:13 <shevy> Object.send :remove_const, :Configuration

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18:13 <havenwood> shevy: Shevy::Configuration and Chevy::Configuration

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18:14 <shevy> well, the problem is that another namespace can get blocked; so in my code, I can not differ between who originated any given module or class

18:14 <shevy> so in my code I could modify module Foo, but it may have been defined by someone else

18:14 <Senjai> shevy: If you have to remove an earlier module, you're doing it wrong

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18:14 <Senjai> shevy: Instead, write your code so you dont have to run into this scenario

18:15 <shevy> and I can do this how when I use the same name?

18:15 <Senjai> Namespaces

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18:15 <Senjai> Solving naming problems since forever

18:15 <shevy> yes, we have the same name. Now what?

18:15 <Senjai> Same namespace?

18:15 <shevy> yes

18:15 <Senjai> What are you writing?

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18:15 <shevy> it does not matter

18:15 <Senjai> It does, do you control both namespaces?

18:16 <Senjai> If you dont, then your shit is simply incompatible with other shit. If you do, don't write your code so that there's a conflict

18:16 <shevy> of course not; I don't control namespaces defined and used by others/external code; see how RbConfig got added, it was called Config in the past wasn't it?

18:16 <Senjai> Either way, removing a module is bound to break something else

18:16 <Senjai> Dont remove other peoples stuff, just fail

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18:16 <shevy> Don't clog up namespaces perhaps?

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18:16 <Senjai> Or use a namespace that is unique

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18:16 <shevy> Don't use my namespace?

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18:16 <Senjai> What namespace

18:17 <shevy> it does not matter!

18:17 <Senjai> are you using something like Application

18:17 <Senjai> because that's just silly

18:17 <shevy> cool argument

18:17 <Senjai> GemName:: is fine

18:17 <shevy> is ApplIcation better?

18:17 <Senjai> No

18:17 <Senjai> I'm saying if your using something so generic that its running into problems like that...

18:18 <jhass> or if you use stuff that does use something such generic

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18:18 <jhass> simply don't use it

18:18 <Senjai> ^

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18:18 <Senjai> Just fail

18:18 <Senjai> its not your job

18:18 <Senjai> Cause an error

18:18 <Senjai> and fail

18:18 <Senjai> if you're actually using a unique namespace

18:18 <shevy> unique

18:18 <Senjai> You still havent told me what it is

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18:19 <shevy> does it matter?

18:19 <Senjai> It's probably Configuration:: or something

18:19 <shevy> pick any name

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18:19 <Senjai> I guarentee nobody is using OmgAwesomeGemNamespaceZeroOhOne

18:19 <shevy> let's say a namespace called Bundler

18:19 <Senjai> Use that

18:19 <Senjai> Fixed forever

18:19 <shevy> I want to bundle some gems together

18:19 <jhass> shevy: do you expect to be able to upload a gem called bundler?

18:20 <shevy> jhass I want to!

18:20 <Senjai> Bundler is a canonical ruby paradigm. It's a bread and butter tool.

18:20 <jhass> shevy: that's not answering my question

18:20 <havenwood> shevy: ah, looks like the "bundler" gem name is already taken!

18:20 <shevy> jhass I expect that I can use non-ruby internal constants in any way I want to use them

18:21 <Senjai> Lol

18:21 <Senjai> k

18:21 <Senjai> Dont ever include another library

18:21 <Senjai> and you'll be fine

18:21 <jhass> shevy: still not answering my question

18:21 <jhass> actually actively evading it

18:21 <shevy> jhass sure it is answered

18:21 <jhass> no

18:21 <jhass> it's simple

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18:21 <Senjai> jhass: He/she has been evading every single quetsion

18:21 <jhass> do you expect to be able to upload a gem called bundler?

18:21 <jhass> yes, no

18:21 <Senjai> What namespace? "Does it matter?":

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18:21 <shevy> Senjai I have answered it precisely; see above, Bundler

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18:22 <Senjai> shevy: Oh, so your adding stuff to Bundler::

18:22 <jhass> Senjai: I know, the trick is to just be fundamentalistic, if you move on they thing they won

18:22 <Senjai> Name your gem better

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18:22 <jhass> *think, even

18:22 <shevy> jhass I expect to be able to use my gems in any way I see fit <--- that was the answer

18:22 <shevy> Senjai my names are perfect

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18:22 <Senjai> Okay , so fork bundler

18:22 <jhass> shevy: nope, I refuse that answer

18:22 <Senjai> Next question?

18:22 <shevy> what for? why should I fork bundler?

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18:22 <jhass> do you expect to be able to upload a gem called bundler? Valid answers: yes, no

18:22 <Senjai> shevy: Because you want to use a namespace that has been taken by a library you're already using

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18:22 <shevy> jhass I expect to use every gem that I want to use in every way I want to see it <- valid answer

18:23 <shevy> Senjai I have no control over what other people do in their code now, have Iß

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18:23 <jhass> shevy: no, that's completely evading my quesiton

18:23 <Senjai> shevy: Sure you do, fork it

18:23 <Senjai> then you have control

18:23 <shevy> jhass the question was answered

18:23 <jhass> shevy: no

18:23 <shevy> Senjai why should I fork the project of someone else? how does that make sense?

18:23 <Senjai> jhass: Can we just +q him for a day?

18:23 <shevy> Senjai can you please stop abuse?

18:23 <Senjai> This has devolved to trolling

18:23 <jhass> Senjai: just /ignore if you're fed up

18:23 <shevy> Senjai stop trolling?

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18:38 <eam> shevy: this is part of why I think Ruby oughten't have both module and class

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18:38 <eam> it's super obnoxious needing to know which type of element a namespace field is

18:38 <shevy> eam yeah that too, I'd love to just extend it without that error

18:39 <eam> btw, if you want you can simply change the constant

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18:39 <havenwood> shevy: clojure namespace includes the author so you don't quite have to be so creative with coming up with your own name :P

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18:39 <havenwood> shevy: for example: org.shevy/bundler.namespace

18:39 <shevy> well it's indeed not so simple because I actually can not modify namespaces too easily like in the above example

18:39 <havenwood> shevy: TL;DR: Don't use an existing namespace.

18:40 <shevy> since my changes will also feedback in a global way, and may affect other code; so whoever is the first to define a namespace/constant, sort of wins

18:40 <eam> ruby is also very non-hierarchical in its module structure. I suspect part of why is this issue

18:40 <shevy> havenwood interesting

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18:40 <shevy> havenwood that means one could have the "same" name, but clojure would still know that it might be different? since these are not by the same author?

18:41 <havenwood> shevy: You could say use `Shevy::Bundler` for a similar effect.

18:41 <havenwood> shevy: Or: ShevyBundler

18:41 <havenwood> shevy: But yeah, by convention.

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18:42 <shevy> true, I could make a Shevy namespace in Bundler

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18:42 <havenwood> shevy: Don't share top level namespaces with other tools. :)

18:42 <Senjai> ^

18:42 <Senjai> What we've been trying to say forever :P

18:42 <shevy> nope

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18:42 <shevy> that means I have to accept what others decide onto me

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18:44 <eam> just hang it off Object

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18:44 <shevy> hehe

18:44 <eam> no one does that; unlikely to conflict

18:44 <shevy> I once wanted to define my own objects for a MUD in ruby; I ended up calling it MudObject instead :\

18:44 <bonhoeffer> what am i missing here: foo.gsub(/(.*?)\-(.*?)\-(.*?)/) {"$3/$2/$1"}

18:44 <bonhoeffer> i have the match data all wrong . . .

18:44 <eam> bonhoeffer: sample input?

18:45 <bonhoeffer> one sec

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18:45 <bonhoeffer> "2013-03-12".gsub(/(.*?)\-(.*?)\-(.*?)/) {"\3/\2/\1"} -> want 3/12/2013

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18:46 <Senjai> bonhoeffer: Have you tried using rubular.com

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18:46 <bonhoeffer> oh yeah — the regex works

18:47 <bonhoeffer> but not in gsub

18:47 <eam> >> "2013-03-12".gsub(/(\d+)-(\d+)-(\d+)/) {"#{$3}/#{$2}/#{$1}"}

18:47 <ruboto> eam # => "12/03/2013" (https://eval.in/390001)

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18:48 <bonhoeffer> hmm . . .

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18:49 <bonhoeffer> wow - eam nice — thanks

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18:49 <eam> avoid .*? for a more explicit pattern whenever you can, it's much more efficient

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18:51 <bougyman> oniguruma optimizes it doesn't it, eam?

18:51 <Senjai> You could also run a match and use the match data object to avoid using globals.

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18:51 <eam> no, .*? is always going to be more expensive than \d+ in that example

18:51 <Senjai> and build a new astring instead

18:52 <eam> bougyman: because it has to traverse the entire input starting with the maximum match (all of the string) and then find each consecutively smaller match until it can't get smaller

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18:52 <eam> and it has to do that for every .*? instance

18:53 <bougyman> eam: yes, I know it's more expensive than a more exact match, I was just mentioning that oniguruma shortcuts some of the steps when it can (optimizes)

18:53 <eam> there are a couple very basic looking regex expressions that will send any engine into conniptions

18:53 <eam> ah yeah. I don't think it can do much in that case, though

18:54 <bougyman> oh can you lock onig up with the +)* with backrefs stuff?

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18:54 <eam> probably, let's see

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19:13 <dfockler> is there an enumerable to count how many elements in an enumerable match a condition?

19:14 <dfockler> oh count hah

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19:20 <ivanskie> anyone else patiently waiting for iTunes 12.2 ?

19:20 <ivanskie> 'patiently'

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19:23 <miah> no. because i have vox.app

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19:24 <shevy> I don't even know what is iTuna

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19:26 <ivanskie> iTuna is very tasty..

19:26 <shevy> hehe

19:27 <ivanskie> I doub't their apple music interface will come close to Spotify's implementation..

19:27 AlphaAtom has joined #ruby

19:27 <ivanskie> but we''ll see

19:27 <sphex> hey. I see that ruby comes with some documentation files in doc/ that aren't associated with specific classes (e.g. "doc/security.rdoc"). they get processed and .ri files are installed for them, but is there any way to read them with ri(1) afterward?

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19:28 <ivanskie> try this http://yardoc.org/

19:28 <miah> thats not the question

19:28 mcclurmc has joined #ruby

19:29 <ivanskie> true

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19:33 <miah> you can do like `rdoc --server` and then go to http://localhost:8214/ruby/security_rdoc.html

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19:33 <miah> but ya, i don't know the magical incantation from the cli to get that specific doc

19:33 <ivanskie> was googling and found this too: http://rxr.whitequark.org/mri/source/doc/security.rdoc which probably doesn't help either but

19:33 sandstrom has quit [Quit: My computer has gone to sleep.]

19:33 <shevy> it's the gesture that counts!

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19:35 <ivanskie> shevy yah but there's also people, like most of Canadian people.. lol that'll say about anything just to be helpful. now whether that information is going to be helpful is usually worse than 50/50

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19:35 <ivanskie> i'm canadian.. but i'm european canadian.. lol

19:35 <sphex> miah, ivanskie: alright, thanks! yeah looks like ri is really only designed to lookup classes/methods. not a big deal I guess, the other docs don't need to be looked up very often.

19:36 <shevy> as long as you speak the real canadian language... french

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19:36 <ivanskie> ur saying it wrong shevy.. Real Canadien

19:36 <miah> you mean Quebecua

19:36 <ivanskie> and nope i don't speak french

19:36 <shevy> lol

19:36 <ivanskie> lol

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19:36 <ivanskie> i speak English, Russian, and Ukrainian tho

19:36 <shevy> adaedra that's a land for you to visit!

19:37 <Xeago> I'm bored.

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19:37 <miah> #ruby-offtopic is great for bordem.

19:38 <Xeago> Ituna is great for hunger.

19:38 <Xeago> :>

19:38 <ivanskie> there's a separate channel for that?

19:38 <ivanskie> adding that to my TIL list

19:38 <miah> indeed.

19:39 <ivanskie> it feels like #ruby-offtopic is more like a fake number you give someone instead of your own...

19:39 <miah> so that we can keep this place focused (of course it does occasionally get OT)

19:39 <shevy> :)

19:39 <miah> 867-5309

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19:39 <shevy> we just mention ruby every now and then to insinuate that it is relevant to ruby

19:40 <shevy> like how many many ruby users are in Canada! \o/

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19:40 <miah> i grew up in almost-canada (michigan).

19:40 mcclurmc_ has joined #ruby

19:40 <shevy> that explains the french accent when you type! \o/

19:41 <miah> lol

19:41 <sphex> and I'm from .qc.ca. gee what's with canada and ruby?

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19:41 <miah> nothing as far as i know

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19:41 <ivanskie> tomorrow there'll be somethin

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19:41 <sphex> right. definitively no take over going on.. << >>

19:42 <shevy> perhaps Canada is the new California

19:42 <ivanskie> tomorrow's Canadian Ruby Day right?

19:42 <shevy> just with less sun. and more snow

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19:42 <ivanskie> :)

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19:44 <sphex> ivanskie: so yard is an alternative toolchain to rdoc?

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19:44 <miah> yardoc is a pretty nice doc parser

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19:44 <ivanskie> i've just found it yesterday.. it just makes it easier to read..

19:44 <miah> and you can write docs in more formats (though I think rdoc supports a few as well)

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19:45 <dfockler> yardoc was really simple and did a pretty good job

19:45 <dfockler> at least for my project

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19:46 <miah> i just wish rdoc/yardoc had better options for linking with simplecov

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19:46 <miah> rdoc can generate a nice list of coverage details. but i want it all in one easy to digest place.

19:47 <miah> yardoc has yardstick, https://github.com/dkubb/yardstick but its not quite what i want

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19:49 <shevy> C versus C++! http://250bpm.com/blog:4

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19:57 <shevy> there is so much python code out there

19:57 <shevy> feels as if they outnumber us 3:1

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19:59 <miah> well, Python has the scientific community

19:59 <miah> more colleges teach it, than Ruby.

20:00 <miah> though honestly most of what researchers were writing when i was working with them was perl, lisp, and java.

20:00 <wmoxam> it's just more popular for basically anything non-web dev

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20:00 <miah> indeed

20:01 <shevy> well I could see some perlers

20:01 <shevy> java too

20:01 baweaver has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]

20:01 <shevy> never really saw a lot of lispers

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20:01 <miah> i worked with a _ton_ of MIT grads. emacs & lisp were their way of life

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20:03 <eam> what generation though? MIT switched from lisp to python a while back

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20:04 <shevy> hey

20:04 <shevy> miah is not *that* old!

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20:04 <eam> coworkers might be though ;-)

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20:05 <Senjai> I've considered going back to school, but I'm pretty torn on it

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20:05 <bricker> I am super bored with programming

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20:05 <miah> im 36. most of my coworkers were close to my age, maybe a tad older.

20:05 <wmoxam> Senjai: what's keeping you from it?

20:05 <bricker> I find no joy in it anymore

20:05 <eam> shevy: they switched in like 2009 iirc

20:05 <eam> miah: you're older than I am

20:05 <Senjai> I already have a job in the industry, and I know what kind of grads most schools produce. But there's a longing for some of the more fundemental concepts and math

20:06 <Senjai> wmoxam: ^

20:06 <wmoxam> Senjai: maybe try some part time courses?

20:06 <dfockler> I wish I knew stats better

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20:06 <wmoxam> bricker: :(

20:06 <Senjai> wmoxam: With work? Eh..

20:06 <miah> i wish i could school. i have a hard time learning in that kind of environment / teaching method though

20:06 <wmoxam> bricker: make something fun ;)

20:07 <Senjai> bricker: You still working in SoCal?

20:07 <wmoxam> Senjai: yeah, it can be hard

20:07 <bricker> wmoxam: The motivation do program outside of work just isn't there anymore

20:07 <bricker> Senjai: yes

20:07 <Senjai> bricker: Consider going to NYC or?

20:07 <Senjai> Or any place that has a really motivated team

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20:08 <miah> totally oc, but we're hiring ;) https://www.simple.com/careers

20:08 <miah> s/oc/ot

20:08 <eam> miah: oh you're at simple?

20:08 <miah> indeed

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20:08 <bricker> Senjai: moving jobs might help for a while, but I've done it a few times now and always after about a year I just lose interest again

20:08 <miah> two years now

20:08 <Senjai> We're also hiring. www.freerunningtech.com. Unfortunately most of our clients are under NDA, suffice it to say we work on some really cools tuff

20:09 <eam> bricker: I made a switch from a big valley company to a much more dynamic startup and it helped a lot

20:09 <Senjai> bricker: I think it might be related to the team man. I get the motivation issue, but you can do cool things and get paid for it, that's a pretty good setup

20:09 <bricker> Senjai: this time feels different, this time I don't even want to move jobs. I'll probably leave the industry after this job, dunno when that will be

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20:09 <Senjai> bricker: Sorry to hear m8.

20:09 <bricker> eam: yeah, I work for a big ass company and it's just totally not fun

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20:10 <Senjai> Work for a smaller firm

20:10 <eam> bricker: try somewhere smaller (but not too small) where you can teach people

20:10 <bricker> eam: may as well be preparing excel spreadsheets or something

20:10 <bricker> yeah

20:10 <miah> i have worked for BACs and they were indeed not fun. too many people working in management.

20:10 <eam> yeah that was me 5 years ago

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20:10 <wmoxam> smaller companies are way more fun IMO

20:10 <bricker> eam: I need dat big company paycheck though you know what I mean

20:10 <Senjai> bricker: https://boards.greenhouse.io/bonobos

20:10 <bricker> startups pay okay I guess

20:10 <eam> bricker: I do, I do - try a unicorn though

20:10 <Senjai> bricker: ^ might be a solution

20:10 <Senjai> bricker: I know they're hiring

20:10 <bricker> thanks

20:11 <Senjai> I know they're dev team too, REALLY good group of guys

20:11 <eam> bricker: I took a huge salary paycut for a bit of equity gamble -- going to do much better in the longer term

20:11 <Senjai> their*

20:11 <bricker> nice

20:11 <eam> most startups can pay "enough"

20:11 <miah> most startups have worthless equity though

20:11 <eam> yeah most do

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20:12 <eam> pick wisely, go for someone who's already essentially made it

20:12 <eam> but are still small

20:12 <Senjai> *cough* Bonobos

20:13 <miah> lots of sales positions =)

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20:14 <bricker> Senjai: what do they do at Bonobos?

20:14 <wmoxam> they monkey around

20:14 <bricker> clothing it looks like?

20:14 <Senjai> They're an ecommerce retailer.

20:14 <bricker> wmoxam: hah-hah-hah

20:14 <bricker> oh

20:14 <eam> wmoxam: their technology is bananas

20:15 <wmoxam> lol

20:15 crazydiamond has quit [Remote host closed the connection]

20:16 sdwrage has joined #ruby

20:16 <shevy> until the day they'll start to program

20:17 <eam> can you imagine all the "million monkeys" jokes

20:18 <wmoxam> no, infinite monkeys

20:18 <wmoxam> typing on infinite mechanical keyboards

20:18 <eam> I hope that's not an open office layout

20:18 <wmoxam> will produce ActiveSupport, which will cause infinite tears

20:18 sarkyniin has joined #ruby

20:18 <bricker> hah

20:19 mcclurmc has quit [Remote host closed the connection]

20:19 <miah> hopefully not chaos monkeys though

20:19 sharpmachine has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]

20:19 pdoherty has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]

20:20 <wmoxam> specs will take infinte years to run

20:20 sepp2k has quit [Quit: Leaving.]

20:21 snockerton has quit [Quit: Leaving.]

20:22 juanca_ has joined #ruby

20:22 ruv has joined #ruby

20:23 rbennacer has joined #ruby

20:23 <miah> why?

20:23 sharpmachine has joined #ruby

20:23 <eam> prove it

20:24 kirun has joined #ruby

20:24 <miah> i generally only see slow tests when virtualized browsers are involved

20:24 bruno- has joined #ruby

20:24 <wmoxam> because of infintite fixtures of course

20:24 <Senjai> miah: Let me tell you about Spree

20:24 <miah> the candy?

20:24 <axisys> need help with a value with space in it .. trying to use it with rvc (ruby vsphere console)

20:24 <axisys> http://dpaste.com/32D29XC

20:25 <miah> http://candyaddict.com/blog/candy_images/wonka_spree_original.jpg

20:25 <NeverDie> How long until ruby gets overtaken by node.js?

20:25 <NeverDie> Or has this happened already.

20:25 <Senjai> miah: https://github.com/spree/spree

20:25 <Senjai> NeverDie: It won't happen, and no

20:25 <NeverDie> Why won't it happen?

20:25 <Senjai> Why would it?

20:25 <NeverDie> It recently took over ruby on hacker news for jobs last month from what I read.

20:25 <Senjai> So?

20:25 <NeverDie> Because node.js is apparently faster?

20:26 baweaver has joined #ruby

20:26 <Senjai> Sure, do you enjoy writing javascript?

20:26 <apeiros> NeverDie: what's the purpose of your question?

20:26 <NeverDie> To see what everyone's thoughts on it are.

20:26 <apeiros> if you want to use the most popular language, use java

20:26 <Senjai> ^

20:26 lapide_viridi has quit [Quit: Leaving]

20:26 <apeiros> if you want to write in the fastest language, use C

20:26 * Senjai places crown on apeiros

20:27 <miah> assembly?

20:27 <Senjai> I'm going to answer every language question like that for now on

20:27 <wmoxam> NeverDie: there are plenty of languages that are faster and/or more popular than Ruby ;)

20:27 <darix> apeiros: it depends.

20:27 <wmoxam> it's not a race

20:27 drewvanstone has joined #ruby

20:27 <miah> slow and steady wins the race

20:27 <wmoxam> and everything has a tradeoff ;)

20:27 bking39116 has joined #ruby

20:27 <apeiros> miah: besides the point :) insert *any fast language and probably very low level language*

20:27 <miah> indeed

20:28 <apeiros> so NeverDie - what is it that motivates you to ask that question?

20:28 <miah> i've written more C than ASM, and I don't want to write either.

20:28 <NeverDie> To see if I should invest time into learning Ruby or not.

20:28 j4cknewt has joined #ruby

20:28 <apeiros> NeverDie: then you're asking the wrong question.

20:29 <NeverDie> Then what would be the right question

20:29 <miah> do you like imperative or oop? =)

20:29 <Senjai> miah: That's not the right question

20:29 <miah> lol

20:29 <NeverDie> Are they not practically one and the same.

20:29 <apeiros> NeverDie: what's the deciding factor for you to invest time?

20:29 <Senjai> NeverDie: Find a language you enjoy writing in, and continue writing it

20:29 Papipo has joined #ruby

20:29 <Papipo> Hi

20:29 <apeiros> amount of job offers? probably java again.

20:29 <NeverDie> apeiros: Salary and employment.

20:29 <Senjai> NeverDie: Go to codecademy, run through the examples, and pick one

20:29 kadoppe has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds]

20:29 <apeiros> salary? learn cobol.

20:29 <wmoxam> ^^^^

20:29 <Senjai> HAHAHA

20:29 <eam> amount of job offers is distinct from quality of job offers

20:29 <Senjai> apeiros: YOU ARE THE KING SIR

20:29 <wmoxam> apeiros: beat me to it

20:29 <miah> its what keeps me off of Go even though its an alright lang. i just hate the amount of repetition and boilerplate code.

20:30 <yorickpeterse> if lol != nil { ... }

20:30 <apeiros> NeverDie: ruby is a nice language. it's a joy to work with for the most part. and there's good jobs.

20:30 kadoppe has joined #ruby

20:30 <apeiros> hth

20:30 <Senjai> s/good/great

20:30 devoldmx has joined #ruby

20:30 <Senjai> There are less jobs, but less developers

20:30 <eam> if you're looking for a runtime to maximize earnings, consider an RDBMS

20:30 <Senjai> It's never a problem finding work

20:30 <yorickpeterse> Ruby is boring and mainstream but it pays and it's a good thing to use

20:30 fabrice31 has joined #ruby

20:30 <havenwood> NeverDie: They're also comparing the entire Node ecosystem to a single Ruby gem.

20:30 <Senjai> yorickpeterse: Boring? :(

20:30 <havenwood> NeverDie: There are lots of non-Rails apps in Ruby.

20:30 fantazo has joined #ruby

20:30 <yorickpeterse> Senjai: Yes, the language is fairly stable

20:31 <Senjai> yorickpeterse: You prefer YoloLang? xD

20:31 <yorickpeterse> except for the april fools features such as refinements that get introduced once in a while

20:31 <eam> yorickpeterse: gonna disagree with you there, ruby is super unstable

20:31 <NeverDie> Yeah but practically everything revolves around ruby and its rails framework.

20:31 <miah> yorickpeterse: exactly. if err != nil..

20:31 <havenwood> NeverDie: Oh?

20:31 <yorickpeterse> eam: MRI might be, the language itself is not

20:31 <yorickpeterse> miah: I know

20:31 <miah> why cant gofmt just do that for me? ;)

20:31 drewvanstone has quit [Client Quit]

20:31 <eam> yorickpeterse: unless you say MRI doesn't implement the language I don't see how that can be true

20:31 dblessing has joined #ruby

20:32 <eam> major api changes over the last decade, changes to core things like scoping

20:32 bking39116 has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]

20:32 <havenwood> NeverDie: You might be surprised that companies you think of as Rails actually have more non-Rails Ruby apps than Rails apps.

20:32 <yorickpeterse> "over the last decade"

20:32 renderful has joined #ruby

20:32 <yorickpeterse> By what standard is something stable then, not changing for a century?

20:32 polyrob has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in]

20:32 <eam> yorickpeterse: uh yes? meanwhile the perl I wrote in the 90s is still working perfectly

20:32 <nofxx> eam, I disagree, got software running for years w/o any problem

20:32 railsraider has joined #ruby

20:32 <yorickpeterse> What I meant is that things don't break radically left and right anymore since 2.0

20:32 <havenwood> NeverDie: There is more to Ruby than Rails. If you disagree you're in the wrong channel.

20:32 <yorickpeterse> 2.1 was bumpy due to the GC

20:32 <yorickpeterse> 2.2 wasn't that bad

20:32 <eam> nofxx: write more software :D

20:32 <yorickpeterse> anything prior to 2.0 was a wild west

20:33 <bougyman> eam: you never use defined?

20:33 <NeverDie> havenwood: I'm here to see if that's not the case. I'm here for informational purposes.

20:33 <nofxx> eam, write better software ;)

20:33 <havenwood> NeverDie: There's a #RubyOnRails channel for Rails-specific discussion

20:33 <bougyman> a bunch of not-that-old perl stuff is breaking now because of that.

20:33 j4cknewt has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]

20:33 <eam> nofxx: api changes don't break software because it's bad

20:33 <eam> they change the interface

20:33 griffindy has quit [Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…]

20:33 ivanskie has joined #ruby

20:33 <bougyman> eam: will that 90s perl work on perl6?

20:33 <yorickpeterse> miah: what I find interesting about Go is how very few seem to be bothered by the GC. Meanwhile in D land _everybody_ is complaining about the GC

20:34 <eam> bougyman: perl6 is a different language

20:34 polyrob has joined #ruby

20:34 <bougyman> ruby has never hidden that major revs will change the api.

20:34 <nofxx> eam, yeah.. ruby is bleeding edge, but it's all for good hehe. At least things move fast, python for instance is 20 years now moving to version 3

20:34 pengin has joined #ruby

20:34 gauke has quit [Quit: gauke]

20:34 <bougyman> python isn't unstable beacuse 3.0 breaks 2.x python apps.

20:34 <shevy> eam will you abandon ruby for perl6?

20:34 <bougyman> that's expected.

20:34 acke has quit [Remote host closed the connection]

20:34 <bougyman> you run 2.x python apps on 2.x python.

20:34 <eam> shevy: I won't be using perl6

20:35 <nofxx> bougyman, you suffer like a motherless child trying that you mean

20:35 fabrice31 has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]

20:35 <miah> i havent written complex enough code in Go to care about the GC

20:35 <nofxx> and your system pkg you need is already 3... and you try changing the shebang... and nah, won't work hehe

20:35 langlands has joined #ruby

20:35 <hoelzro> eam: no interest in trying it?

20:35 <eam> hoelzro: I did a bit

20:36 <eam> not a compelling platform for me

20:36 JohnBat26 has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.3.1 Aria http://www.kvirc.net/]

20:36 <wmoxam> I haven't wrote any Perl since 2003 :p

20:36 <miah> wmoxam: about the same

20:36 <shevy> awww

20:36 renderful has quit [Client Quit]

20:36 <miah> the 90's are alive in Perl

20:36 <eam> perl5 is nice because it has a simple syntax for short one-liners and a very close 1:1 mapping to posix interfaces

20:36 <shevy> <marquee>!

20:36 <eam> every time I try to do systems stuff in ruby it's a frustrating dive into weirdly implemented object systems

20:37 workmad3 has joined #ruby

20:37 <yorickpeterse> "simple syntax"

20:37 <miah> and seriously lacking systems library

20:37 <yorickpeterse> "short one-liners"

20:37 <eam> yorickpeterse: it is very simple

20:37 <yorickpeterse> you had me at "simple"

20:37 <miah> ruby's multiple tar implementions are all :(

20:37 <shevy> I never managed to adjust to perl's syntax

20:37 <eam> yorickpeterse: for example, no boilerplate for string interpolation

20:37 <yorickpeterse> boilerplate?

20:37 j4cknewt has joined #ruby

20:37 <yorickpeterse> "#{foo}" isn't exactly boilerplate

20:38 sgambino has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com]

20:38 <eam> vs "$thing" ?

20:38 sarkyniin has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]

20:38 <yorickpeterse> You can do that for non locals

20:38 <yorickpeterse> "#@foo"

20:38 <shevy> damn the #!

20:38 <eam> yorickpeterse: hm that's nicer

20:38 <yorickpeterse> but oh heavens, you need 2 characters more

20:39 yfeldblum has joined #ruby

20:39 <nofxx> yeah, #@ is pretty unkown... but dollar signs NEVER

20:39 <eam> yorickpeterse: it adds up for a 30 character one liner -- but the regex access is the bigger issue

20:39 <eam> s/// vs gsub

20:39 <yorickpeterse> (＠ﾟДﾟ＠;)

20:39 <eam> and bad autoviv behavior

20:39 <yorickpeterse> Also, it worries me people measure syntax by how useful it is for one liners

20:39 <nofxx> more $ lang has more smell ...that's the reason php is a pile of shit

20:39 <yorickpeterse> when was the last time you wrote a one-liner Rails app?

20:40 <eam> yorickpeterse: I don't write apps in perl

20:40 hanmac has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]

20:40 <shevy> I don't write rails!

20:40 <eam> I told you I prefer perl for a small subset of problems :)

20:40 <yorickpeterse> well yeah, use whatever floats your boat

20:40 snockerton has joined #ruby

20:40 <eam> I'm not making a contentious statement here I hope

20:40 <eam> it's way way better for sed/awk style use cases

20:40 vickleton has joined #ruby

20:40 <shevy> I tend to store "one-liners" in a .rb file and just call that though

20:41 kraljev11 has joined #ruby

20:41 <Senjai> eam: I.. just use sed and awk

20:41 <eam> why?

20:41 <eam> if you want to talk about gross language syntax, why would you use those over perl?

20:41 <Senjai> eam: Because I understand them, and I don't know perl?

20:41 <eam> they differ between unixes, perl is consistent

20:41 <Senjai> literallytheonlyreason

20:41 <eam> and way more expressive

20:41 <eam> Senjai: ah well, I suggest replacing them

20:41 fantazo has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]

20:41 wprice has quit [Quit: wprice]

20:41 <shevy> with perl or with ruby

20:41 _stu_ has quit [Quit: _stu_]

20:41 <Senjai> Sure, but as this conversation is heading, pick any tool meant to solve the job

20:42 <shevy> or with python or php

20:42 <Senjai> Eh, I haven't had problems. I use them as oneoffs.

20:42 <eam> I'd pick the best tool. I'd never write a shell script for example

20:42 baweaver has quit [Remote host closed the connection]

20:42 <Senjai> Nothing wrong with shell scripts

20:42 <Senjai> where it makes sense

20:42 <nofxx> when there's no logic

20:42 roolo has joined #ruby

20:42 <shevy> lol

20:42 <Senjai> Or very little

20:42 <eam> I sometimes use ruby for one-liners, but usually they're more like 5-liners in irb (which is fine, it's just a lot more boilerplate for some simple ops)

20:43 <eam> Senjai: there's a LOT wrong with shell scripts, mostly surrounding how variables work

20:43 <eam> you cannot write shell safely

20:43 juanca_ has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]

20:43 <Senjai> Sure you can.

20:43 <yorickpeterse> You can also use Node.js for your scripts

20:43 <yorickpeterse> Then even your frontenders can write them

20:43 <yorickpeterse> plus they work in the browser too

20:43 <eam> Senjai: no, you really can't -- and if you think you can I suggest you need to learn more about shell scripts

20:43 <ljarvis> plus they scale

20:43 <Senjai> You could also write your scripts in C, and compile them

20:43 <yorickpeterse> ᕕ(ᐛ)ᕗ

20:43 wildroman2 has quit [Remote host closed the connection]

20:44 snockerton has quit [Client Quit]

20:44 <miah> tcsh ;)

20:44 <Senjai> eam: Am I confident in writing super cross platform & posix compliant scripts? No, do I care? No

20:44 <Senjai> If i did

20:44 snockerton has joined #ruby

20:44 <Senjai> I'd use something else

20:44 langlands has quit [Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…]

20:44 <eam> I'm not talking about portability -- I'm talking about danger of misbehavior due to how variables are string interpolated and evaluated

20:44 juanca_ has joined #ruby

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20:45 JDiPierro has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]

20:45 <shevy> eam has been around a while to remember the old days

20:45 <Senjai> Are you talking about that bash bug or something?

20:45 <shevy> of the 1980s :)

20:45 JDiPierro has joined #ruby

20:45 <Senjai> I'm not saying its perfect man

20:45 <eam> "that" bug? It's a design issue

20:46 <Senjai> I'm saying my script that curls an api endpoint, and does some formatting with cut and tr, doesnt need to be secure

20:46 BanzaiJoe has quit []

20:46 <eam> Senjai: neither of us are saying it's perfect. And I'm saying it's fundamentally dangerous

20:46 TheHodge has joined #ruby

20:46 kraljev11 has joined #ruby

20:46 <Senjai> eam: Can you link me to a resource that explains this to me?

20:46 <eam> because every time you reference a variable you need to do some rather crazy analysis of how it will be interpolated, quoted and evaluated

20:47 <Senjai> eam: Not all scripts need to use variables

20:47 fsvehla has quit [Quit: fsvehla]

20:47 <Senjai> It can just perform a series of operations

20:47 <eam> Senjai: how about this: write me a (should be <2 lines) shell script that simply execs its arguments properly

20:47 Guest25_ has joined #ruby

20:47 nertzy has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep]

20:47 railsraider has quit [Quit: railsraider]

20:47 <eam> like ruby -e'exec ARGV'

20:47 <apeiros> IT'S A TRAP!

20:48 <eam> *ARGV w/e :)

20:48 <Senjai> eam: I have something terrible

20:48 <Senjai> but it was just sitting around

20:48 Musashi007 has quit [Quit: Musashi007]

20:48 <Senjai> I havent written it, I know its bad

20:48 <Senjai> ill gist

20:48 <Senjai> sec

20:48 <eam> sure, let's look at it, I'll use it as an example

20:48 sgambino has joined #ruby

20:48 <Senjai> eam: https://gist.github.com/Senjai/c0c7ea69fb66447f4b35

20:48 <eam> ok perfect, so `pwd` and $NODE_PATH in that first expression

20:48 <eam> what happens when there's whitespace in a filename?

20:49 revath has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]

20:49 Guest25_ is now known as gabhart

20:49 <miah> classic problem =)

20:49 <Senjai> I would assume it'd be escaped, but I have no idea

20:49 <eam> you quoted "$@" properly (good idiom, classic shell magic)

20:49 <eam> it's not, you need "" around those too

20:49 wildroman2 has joined #ruby

20:49 <Senjai> around $NODE_PATH and `pwd`?

20:49 <eam> "`echo -n foo`" is "foo"

20:49 <eam> yeah

20:49 <eam> you need to double quote *every* variable

20:50 <eam> because the way shell works is to interpolate $FOO first, then eval()

20:50 rbennacer has quit [Remote host closed the connection]

20:50 <eam> it's really crazy complexity and essentially no one on earth writes safe shell

20:50 fmcgeough has quit [Quit: fmcgeough]

20:50 <eam> (it's theoretically possible, but ...)

20:50 <miah> or portable shell

20:50 <eam> yeah, but I'll even forgive portable

20:50 <Senjai> miah: I already said I dont care about portability :P

20:51 <eam> it's just super dangerous every time you even reference a value

20:51 <miah> ya just saying, its _very_ difficult to write portable / secure shell

20:51 <Senjai> eam: Okay, I'll concede the point

20:51 kraljev11 has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]

20:51 <eam> so the language is also filled with magic idioms, like "$@" which expands into individually tokenized whitespace separated elements

20:51 <Senjai> but most shell scripts that have no variables, and just perform a long series of pipes

20:51 <Senjai> would that not be fine?

20:51 scripore has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep]

20:51 <eam> "$FOO" is one string, "$@" is multiple strings because "$@" is a special case

20:52 phutchins1 has joined #ruby

20:52 sarkyniin has joined #ruby

20:52 <miah> valve failed this recently. https://github.com/valvesoftware/steam-for-linux/issues/3671

20:52 <apeiros> ok, so there are actually sane rationales for my dislike of *sh?

20:52 <eam> Senjai: everything's relative, typing commands into bash isn't gonna end the world -- but I really really would not write scripts in it

20:52 <apeiros> (wrt anything beyond 2 lines)

20:53 <jhass> apeiros: we should never let the systemd haters hear this ;D

20:53 juanca__ has joined #ruby

20:53 <eam> jhass: I hate systemd too ;-)

20:53 B1n4r10 has joined #ruby

20:53 <apeiros> jhass: in about 4 to 6 months you'll have to give me a systemd crash course ;-)

20:53 <jhass> but it replaces all the shell scripts!

20:53 kraljev11 has joined #ruby

20:53 <eam> jhass: poorly yes :)

20:53 <eam> jhass: I don't use the sys5 init system either

20:54 balazs has joined #ruby

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20:54 <miah> runit for life.

20:54 <eam> yeah

20:54 <jhass> apeiros: sure

20:54 davejlong has quit []

20:54 <jhass> there's not much to it

20:54 <miah> runit/daemontools/s6 i should say ;)

20:54 <eam> and I use ruby to template the runit scripts in fact

20:54 <apeiros> btw., foooolks, y'all way OT here :-p

20:54 <apeiros> ?ot

20:54 <ruboto> this seems to be off-topic. Please move your discussion to #ruby-offtopic, to keep this channel free for Ruby related problems. Thanks!

20:54 ruv has quit [Remote host closed the connection]

20:54 <eam> (because the default of shell is unsafe, so ruby + json = safe format)

20:55 <apeiros> jhass: that line needs more propaganda

20:55 <jhass> mmh

20:55 <apeiros> like: #ruby-offtopic is an awesome channel, you should totally join it to discuss all that stuff there!

20:55 <eam> miah: https://github.com/square/prodeng/blob/master/servicebuilder/bin/servicebuilder

20:55 <jhass> apeiros: don't forget the hangman synergy!

20:55 <miah> awesome

20:55 rbennacer has quit [Remote host closed the connection]

20:56 Azure has quit [Quit: Oops.]

20:56 juanca_ has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]

20:56 <Senjai> eam: You're not in the OT channel :(

20:56 <eam> it's not OT, that's ruby

20:56 <eam> I don't think explaining why ruby should be used for runscripts instead of shell is OT

20:56 <Senjai> eam: I meant that I cant talk to you bout this more because you're not in the OT channel

20:56 kraljev11 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]

20:56 <eam> oh haha

20:57 kraljev11 has joined #ruby

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20:58 balazs has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]

20:58 <shevy> we are planning to replace shell scripts with ruby scripts

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21:06 <sphex> thank god all that OT stuff stopped to make room for *all these* ruby discussions...

21:06 JDiPierro has quit [Remote host closed the connection]

21:07 <eam> :P

21:07 <centrx> yeah One channel to rule them all!

21:07 <eam> I find the peripheral discussions often are the most enlightening

21:07 <centrx> can't even talk in #ruby-pro

21:07 <eam> what's ruby-pro

21:07 <centrx> #ruby-offtopic is just a hangman channel

21:07 <centrx> it's nothing, there's no talking!

21:07 <eam> haha

21:08 <apeiros> :-|

21:08 <apeiros> :-[

21:08 <baweaver> This is what we have #ruby-meta for

21:08 <ljarvis> :|

21:08 djbkd has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]

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21:08 <ljarvis> ls channels | grep ^ruby- | wc -l

21:08 kraljev11 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]

21:08 <ljarvis> 350

21:08 <eam> this is why I have 78 irssi windows

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21:09 <havenwood> centrx: That's not true! We were just talking about Streem replacing all other shells when they're deprecated this Fall.

21:09 * baweaver is being cheeky

21:09 <baweaver> but #ruby-meta totally exists

21:09 <baweaver> because funny

21:09 <yorickpeterse> omg you folks this is offtopic

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21:09 <yorickpeterse> ?offtopic offtopic

21:09 <ruboto> offtopic, this seems to be off-topic. Please move your discussion to #ruby-offtopic, to keep this channel free for Ruby related problems. Thanks!

21:09 <ljarvis> ?ot yorickpeterse

21:09 <ruboto> yorickpeterse, this seems to be off-topic. Please move your discussion to #ruby-offtopic, to keep this channel free for Ruby related problems. Thanks!

21:09 <yorickpeterse> no you're offtopic

21:10 * ljarvis puts on wizard hat

21:10 <eam> >_<

21:10 <centrx> Ruby is optimized for programmer happiness, so everything happy is on-topic

21:10 <yorickpeterse> wat

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21:10 <ljarvis> centrx: nice try

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21:10 <yorickpeterse> hmmm...tea

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21:11 <apeiros> lol

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21:12 * apeiros hugs the channel and waves gn8

21:12 <Senjai> apeiros: Sweet dreams

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21:18 <shevy> centrx is PHP off topic

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21:19 <centrx> shevy, Take it to #ruby-meta please,thanks

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21:20 <Senjai> How many ruby channels do we have

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21:20 eggoez has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]

21:20 <Senjai> Is #ruby and #ruby-offtopic not good enough? :P

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21:23 <ljarvis> uh.. yes, ruby-offtopic is fine

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21:24 <baweaver> It is, I was just being cheeky

21:24 <baweaver> probably closing the channel a bit later.

21:24 <Senjai> baweaver: Oh.. I am gullable today

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21:35 <shevy> GitGud interesting nicks!

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21:36 <GitGud> thanks shevy

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21:55 <zenspider> rawr

21:55 <jhass> uhm

21:55 <jhass> good morning

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21:56 <adaedra> shevy: heh. Quebec is on my list of places I could go. But they speak a fancy french over there :)

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22:00 <baweaver> afternoon for us mate.

22:00 <eam> and a good one at that

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22:00 <baweaver> bit hot

22:01 <yorickpeterse> ?ugt

22:01 <ruboto> it's morning, see http://www.total-knowledge.com/~ilya/mips/ugt.html

22:01 <adaedra> too hot

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22:01 <eam> I'm in a climate controlled box and have no concept of weather, time, or self

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22:02 <yorickpeterse> are you literally a computer?

22:02 <eam> I mean, yeah, all humans are right?

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22:03 <jhass> eam: you should download some windows

22:03 <yorickpeterse> pretty sure I don't have an Intel processor in my stomach

22:03 <eam> my implementation even contains a (slow and error prone) ruby interpreter

22:03 <yorickpeterse> or an nvidia GPU up my ass

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22:04 <eam> yorickpeterse: around the valley you can't always make that kind of assumption

22:04 hotpancakes has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]

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22:04 <yorickpeterse> good thing I don't live in the valley

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22:07 <yorickpeterse> also TIL MRI's eval() with a String is _really_ slow

22:08 <yorickpeterse> as in, stupidly slow

22:08 <yorickpeterse> even more so than expected

22:08 <shevy> :)

22:08 <shevy> we have to accept the fact

22:08 <shevy> ruby will always be remembered as slow

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22:08 <yorickpeterse> jruby 9k is pretty fast with the right options

22:08 <yorickpeterse> and rubinius will hopefully soon be webscale (TM)

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22:09 <yorickpeterse> But yeah, people will always remember it due to whatever MRI does

22:09 <adaedra> ＷＥＢＳＣＡＬＥ

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22:10 <yorickpeterse> ah well, good thing I'll be caching my eval() output

22:10 <adaedra> Well everyone, I wish you Ｇｏｏｄｎｉｇｈｔ

22:10 <yorickpeterse> so in an actual app there will be few calls to it

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22:11 <jfarmer> yorickpeterse What are you using eval(...) for?

22:11 <yorickpeterse> I'm generating Ruby source code based on XPath expressions

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22:11 <yorickpeterse> which is then cached and used to query documents

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22:12 <yorickpeterse> well how about that, this code is actually faster than Nokogiri

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22:12 <yorickpeterse> suck it libxml2

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22:13 <eam> I will forever judge jruby by its startup time

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22:13 <yorickpeterse> Ruby code outperforming C

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22:13 <jhass> well, libxml2...

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22:13 <yorickpeterse> jhass: few libraries out there that are faster _and_ do more than just XML parsing

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22:13 <yorickpeterse> if any

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22:14 <yorickpeterse> https://gist.github.com/YorickPeterse/b9c7f9f4d2ebc9d2b621 totally legit benchmarking results

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22:19 <jhass> mmh, wonder how gumbo holds up

22:20 <zenspider> delicious when my mom makes it

22:20 <yorickpeterse> jhass: gumbo only does HTML

22:20 <yorickpeterse> and doesn't do XPath last time I checked

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22:20 <yorickpeterse> granted that was...2 years ago I think

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22:22 <jhass> ugh, seems still not indeed

22:22 <jhass> nvm

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22:27 <Senjai> o/ zenspider

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22:28 <volty> what is delicious? some cake, or html? :)

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22:31 <zenspider> volty: gumbo. it's an american creole/cajun (usually-)seafood stew

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22:33 <volty> zenspider: looks nice, on wikipedia. got hungry by looking at it. going to eat some cheese since

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22:34 <zenspider> heh. cheese is good too

22:34 <zenspider> different, but also good

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22:35 <dfockler> I've got cold biscuits and gravy waiting at home

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22:45 <tammy_girl> Hello

22:46 <dfockler> hello

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22:56 <Kortes> hey

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22:56 <zenspider> now I'm hungry, again

22:57 <Kortes> guys, following the ruby project structure

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22:57 <Kortes> if i have a script that uses a erb template

22:57 <Kortes> and a csv file

22:57 <Kortes> where would those files go>

22:57 <Kortes> inside the lib ?

22:58 <zenspider> are you planning on publishing this as a gem?

22:58 <Kortes> or is it common practice to create a sort of, 'resources' folder?

22:58 <zenspider> don't really think it matters

22:58 <Kortes> nah, this is just a homework for a bootcamp im applying to

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22:58 <Kortes> i just want it to look real neat, organized, as if i did my research and went the xtra mile

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22:59 <zenspider> either way you're prolly going to reference the file relative to your current file

22:59 <Kortes> but in regular ruby applications intended to be published, where would it go?

22:59 <zenspider> whether you tack on "../resources" or not doesn't really matter

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22:59 <zenspider> where you put it

22:59 balazs_ has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]

22:59 <Kortes> yeah im thinking more of a developer looking at my project folder

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23:00 <Kortes> if theres a common practice, id like for him to see that i followed it

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23:00 <Kortes> so youre saying just to leave them all inside the lib?

23:01 <zenspider> I'm saying it doesn't matter. put it where you want to put it.

23:02 <Kortes> are you also saying theres no common practice of where to put this kind of files which are not a script but the script does use ?

23:02 <Kortes> where would you put them?

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23:03 <Senjai> Kortes: Lib is common for libraries

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23:04 <Senjai> Kortes: Also for utilities that can be used outside of the current application

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23:04 <shevy> Kortes normally it's not so important as long as you load the .rb files; typically for a project "foobar", you have: lib/foobar/ and lib/foobar.rb and inside of lib/foobar/ you have the other .rb files; that is the default gem structure, http://stackoverflow.com/questions/3307209/what-is-the-modern-way-to-structure-a-ruby-gem

23:04 <Senjai> Like classes only used by rake tasks etc.

23:04 michael_mbp has quit [Excess Flood]

23:04 <shevy> http://chneukirchen.github.io/rps/

23:04 <Senjai> In the end, feel free to structure your app however

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23:05 <shevy> wow... that page from chris2 is already 5 years old by now...

23:05 <Senjai> Nooooooooo

23:05 <Senjai> Lol @ attempt to write a standard for this kind of thing

23:05 <Kortes> thanks guys, thats exactly what confused me about placing an '.erb' and a '.csv' file in there

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23:05 <Kortes> ill just create a res folder in the structure

23:06 <Senjai> Kortes: I would seperate views/fixturedata/etc from models or business logic

23:06 <Senjai> Kortes: That works, just call it resources though or something :P

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23:06 <Kortes> jaja yeah good idea

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23:06 <Kortes> thanks a lot

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23:17 <dfockler> so ::Thread means it's calling the top level namespace right?

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23:18 <dfockler> ahhh I got it now

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